Buffs nb needs

JinxxND

Making merciless fire without your control is stupid, It has always been a part of your burst combo since the beginning of the game that's a terrible idea. You've always had to hold it until you were ready to use it usually after an incap/soul harvest combo.

Making it fire off once it's at max stacks would not only now make you lose your damage mitigation but completely ruin your burst window. Suggestions like this make you wonder if you people even understand in game mechanics and how stuff works in game.

You've also mentioned before how you would like to remove ALL stuns from the game before as you said stuns were contributing to the "tank" meta, after this I don't understand how anyone can even take you seriously for anything you say.

Iskiab

JinxxND wrote: »

Making merciless fire without your control is stupid, It has always been a part of your burst combo since the beginning of the game that's a terrible idea. You've always had to hold it until you were ready to use it usually after an incap/soul harvest combo,

Making it fire off once it's at max stacks would not only now make you lose your damage mitigation but completely ruin your burst window. Suggestions like this make you wonder if you people even understand in game mechanics and how stuff works in game.

You've also mentioned before how you would like to remove ALL stuns from the game before as you said stuns were contributing to the "tank" meta, after this I don't understand how anyone can even take you seriously for anything you say.

You sound like this is your first MMO and have never played one without stuns everywhere. I’ll give you a hint, they’re doing fine.

If you can’t see how you’d adapt your playstyle around changed mechanics why bother giving your opinion? Then telling someone else they’d can’t be taken seriously, jeez. L2Think.

There’s more to the game then being spoon fed how to play your class and copy/pasting your playstyle around it.

JinxxND

This is ESO not some turn based combat mmo, stuns are the only things killing people right now without stuns the game would just be a rock em sock em robots simulator with the healing that's through the roof only thing at that point that would kill is zerging with numbers, and harmony setups.

As for nightblade imagine having your hardest hitting skill firing randomly and not being able to control when you burst people down on a class that has no pressure skills like a sorc you mentioned with curse essentially a direct damage dot/fury a delayed execute that procs when someone hp drops low/streak an unblockable huge ranged aoe stun, and frags. Nightblade is all direct damage and debuffs meant to burst people in a kill window. Not to mention now that they gave relentless damage mitigation to make the class a tank you would complete ruin that which is one of the few things the class even has at this point since damage was stripped from the class.

Learn the in game mechanics of the game and PvP and formulate reasonable opinions then maybe you can be taken seriously again.

brandonv516

I don't think I'd like Merciless being out of my control if that's what is being suggested.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

I don't think I'd like Merciless being out of my control if that's what is being suggested.

What I suggested is moreso you control merciless with light attacks, rather than being out of your control.

Think:
4th LA - Elemental Weapon - 5th LA boosted by Ele weapon and merciless fires - Soul harvest (not sure if it would boost Ele weapon and merciless because of projectile vs melee hit).

I’m not dead set on this being the best way to go, but it would definitely be a buff. Think merciless when the mitigation stacks were added and everyone thought it wouldn’t make a difference. People I think just don’t like change.

Gilvoth

yeah the stunns need removed.
i agree with the others.

JinxxND

People don't like the damage mitigation because nightblades lost minor berserk AND minor endurance on stamblades because it was giving nb too much damage in PvE. To get the most out of the skill you have to fire it within 7m of your target to get the heal and if they don't die and follow up immediate with their own burst back to force you to go defensive you just lost your damage mitigation.

So for a specific conditional build that uses clunky ele weapon build over swallow soul on a magblade you would want an auto firing assassin will giving you no control over your damage mitigation and when you want your hardest hitting single target skill firing, that also would effect stamblades. Dumb idea removing control from the player. Most magblades are building the assassin will and waiting to close and immediately fire it after soul havest in melee range so it's less time to react also the damage mitigation helps with the poor healing the class has and allowing your weak heals to heal through more damage.

Changing stuff for the sake of change isn't smart esp if it doesn't make sense. If you want to fire it exactly when you have the 5 stacks then more power to you and you can do that already but forcing every nb to lose there damage mitigation and when they want to burst is dumb.

brandonv516

Iskiab wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I don't think I'd like Merciless being out of my control if that's what is being suggested.

What I suggested is moreso you control merciless with light attacks, rather than being out of your control.

Think:
4th LA - Elemental Weapon - 5th LA boosted by Ele weapon and merciless fires - Soul harvest (not sure if it would boost Ele weapon and merciless because of projectile vs melee hit).

I’m not dead set on this being the best way to go, but it would definitely be a buff. Think merciless when the mitigation stacks were added and everyone thought it wouldn’t make a difference. People I think just don’t like change.

I think it would feel like your light attacks after #4 would essentially be held hostage until you need to actually fire the bow.

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

For a burst heal I'd like Shadow Image to provide that when you teleport back to it (loses the Minor Maim and that goes to Fear).

We are likely going to get some radical changes that we will need to adapt to, so I might as well suggest my own lol.

LittlePinkDot

So we know mageblade sucks.. what's everyone's opinion on stamblade?

JayJayIsSoJay

Incap and soul harvest cast time needs to be removed or at least reduced to 0.2s.

Yes, you can react to incap and sh, there's not only sound but also an obvious combo bow+cc+ulti incoming, you can predict a combo like that coming, just like you predict a metor+streak combo, most of the good NB players around has a combo like that, an average player knows about a NB combo, so heal up, dodge, shield up, cast your ultis or anything else.

"Oh but cast time is needed to give a chance for players to react" Lagging is undoubtedly a present problem and a situation, I assume if you play PvP you know about that. In most of the times, incap and soul harvest won't land within 0.4s like the tooltip says, actually, every cast time skill gets a bit extended under lag, such as channeled accel, tooltip says 1.3s cast(I guess, not sure)but in fact it goes off after 2.1s(around this number). cast time gives more than enough time for a player to react and counter it.

As for grim focus, I don't think ZOS will bring back the minor berserk like it used to be. IMO, we should have an offensive and a defensive morph. If they don't like the idea of the old grim focus, maybe make an offensive morph like: when you launch your spectral bow you get minor berserk for X secs, perhaps 5s or 6s, or even: when your spectral bow critically hits the target you get minor berserk for X secs.

JinxxND

JayJayIsSoJay wrote: »

Incap and soul harvest cast time needs to be removed or at least reduced to 0.2s.

Yes, you can react to incap and sh, there's not only sound but also an obvious combo bow+cc+ulti incoming, you can predict a combo like that coming, just like you predict a metor+streak combo, most of the good NB players around has a combo like that, an average player knows about a NB combo, so heal up, dodge, shield up, cast your ultis or anything else.

"Oh but cast time is needed to give a chance for players to react" Lagging is undoubtedly a present problem and a situation, I assume if you play PvP you know about that. In most of the times, incap and soul harvest won't land within 0.4s like the tooltip says, actually, every cast time skill gets a bit extended under lag, such as channeled accel, tooltip says 1.3s cast(I guess, not sure)but in fact it goes off after 2.1s(around this number). cast time gives more than enough time for a player to react and counter it.

As for grim focus, I don't think ZOS will bring back the minor berserk like it used to be. IMO, we should have an offensive and a defensive morph. If they don't like the idea of the old grim focus, maybe make an offensive morph like: when you launch your spectral bow you get minor berserk for X secs, perhaps 5s or 6s, or even: when your spectral bow critically hits the target you get minor berserk for X secs.

I don't think they plan on bringing back minor berserk cause it had something todo with PvE dps on nb, despite wardens having pretty much the same dps keeping the minor berserk buff and necro's but whatever. Grim focus is supposed to be an offensive morph so giving it something like major brutality/sorcery/minor force would make sense and I like the idea of a hot attached to it over the burst heal it has, similar to some like crit surge on sorcs. I have no idea how the class identity of a rogue with high damage got confused for damage mitigation.

MusCanus

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Kadoin

MusCanus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Have you ever thought that what he is suggesting would be OP which is why ZOS has the skill is in the state it is now?

And someone suggesting shadow image heal when you teleport back to it? What? The skill already provides damage avoidance, why exactly would it need to also provide healing and how can you even argue that would not be broken OP?

MusCanus

Kadoin wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Have you ever thought that what he is suggesting would be OP which is why ZOS has the skill is in the state it is now?

And someone suggesting shadow image heal when you teleport back to it? What? The skill already provides damage avoidance, why exactly would it need to also provide healing and how can you even argue that would not be broken OP?

I've quoted only a part of the post for a reason. I don't have a clear opinion on Shadow Image right now but how replacing a burst heal on Merciless/Relentless with a HoT would be OP? You can argue the strength of the HoT and range at which the bow must be shot for it to apply, but replacing something mostly useless with something useful wouldn't make an ability suddenly OP.

brandonv516

Kadoin wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Have you ever thought that what he is suggesting would be OP which is why ZOS has the skill is in the state it is now?

And someone suggesting shadow image heal when you teleport back to it? What? The skill already provides damage avoidance, why exactly would it need to also provide healing and how can you even argue that would not be broken OP?

That type of heal would take more strategy than holding block with S&B and spamming a skill. NB needs a burst heal but not something generic.

Losing the Minor Maim and giving it to Fear would be the tradeoff.

You could even make the burst heal be contingent on how long the shade is active (like Rally).

I wouldn't expect it to be adopted, that's why I said it was a radical idea. Don't be surprised at what radical changes we do get though.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Have you ever thought that what he is suggesting would be OP which is why ZOS has the skill is in the state it is now?

And someone suggesting shadow image heal when you teleport back to it? What? The skill already provides damage avoidance, why exactly would it need to also provide healing and how can you even argue that would not be broken OP?

That type of heal would take more strategy than holding block with S&B and spamming a skill. NB needs a burst heal but not something generic.

Losing the Minor Maim and giving it to Fear would be the tradeoff.

You could even make the burst heal be contingent on how long the shade is active (like Rally).

I wouldn't expect it to be adopted, that's why I said it was a radical idea. Don't be surprised at what radical changes we do get though.

Yea, a burst heal would make a huge difference.

Right now dueling magblade’s self healing is good enough. In BGs it’s where it’s not enough because two players can put out a lot of burst, leading people to go shadowy disguise, leading to less self healing.

It’s so easy to force a magblade on the defensive, and defensive abilities cost more then offensive abilities, leading to needing more sustain... leading to dealing less damage.

You can get far in pvp purely by being aggressive and forcing people to go defensive. Magblade’s always seem to get caught in a defensive downward spiral unless they’re dueling.

TheBonesXXX

Iskiab wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.

I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.

From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.

Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.

I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.

Post it..

For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.

That is the type of posting these forums needs.

Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.

Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.

You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.

Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?

If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?

Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.

Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.

It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.

I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.

Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.

Iskiab

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Seems like folks are fishing for an advantage as usual on these forums. The dishonest playerbase is a massive chunk of why the game is in the state it is in.

I don’t think so, there are very few magblades left. Most are like me where they started as a magblade and are playing other classes, but still feel invested in the class.

From playing other classes the class’ weakness’ are more obvious, plus it becomes really easy to call BS on some of the silly objections to a magblade buff, and easy to debunk some of the forum nonsense you read.

Sure some of the suggestions are over the top, but it’s pretty obvious it needs something.

I think adding minor berserk back to merciless, making the hot linger after people leave refreshing path, reworking shrewd offering into a self heal or making rapid regen self only, removing the cast time from soul Siphon, and shaving 10% off the cost of all magblade abilities is probably good enough.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that people here are honest and have the data.

Post it..

For instance someone posted data on the disparity between Jabs and Rapid Strikes and how much greater Jabs performs.

That is the type of posting these forums needs.

Then we can say buff Rapid Strikes.. if Jabs does superior damage, let Rapid Strikes get an increase in it's speed.

Simple yet effective means before crying apocalypse like a lot of these people do.

You can’t really make comparisons like that, it doesn’t work. If it did you could balance classes with a spreadsheet and every class would be released balanced from alpha.

Looking at tooltips is also silly. For the example you used of rapid strikes vs jabs, so what? Should rapid strikes hit just as hard as jabs?

If weapon skill lines work just as well as class skill lines then why would someone play a templar?

Individual comparison of skills doesn’t work too because if everything is just as effective why wouldn’t everyone be a sorc or NB? What’s important is how abilities are put together. Templar is a good example in this case. For damage they can do everything damagewise in just 4 slots: light, topppling, sweeps, Ult. This allows them to use their other slots for passives, tanking or healing which is why they’re powerful.

Magblade needs merciless, their self healing is split amongst multiple abilities, need cloak, a stun, spammables are weak. The front bar can’t even fit passive abilities well, even if their spammables were as powerful as other classes. Try fitting two heals as a magblade and you’ll see what I mean.

It’s things like that which matter, not individual skill comparisons.

I don't disagree with mechanical analysis. But most people are looking for an advantage and aren't honest.

Math matters though, Jabs and Rapids are melee channel abilities. So it's fair to look at them at an individual level.

I’ll admit it, I wreck people as a magplar and I’m not that great. What I do is simple: the sustain is good so stack weapon damage and run NMA and BRB, breaking New Moon with potatoes on the back bar.

After trying magplar I’ve been leveling a MagWarden dps and it’s decent but I’m nowhere near as good with it. A strong spammable makes a world of difference.

Where people I’ve found are most dishonest is counters. Like on my magplar I always have trouble with one guy who runs engine guardian and major evasion, my sweeps randomly hits the guardian hurting burst. But... can everyone build like that? No.

Another example is healing, everyone wants everyone else’s healing nerfed. Being up vigor and people will say be against a healing nerf.

JinxxND

On the healing note I think that's the worst thing ZOS can do mainly due to there track record of nerfing everything into the ground. I guarantee you if they nerf healing since they don't understand slight nerfs they will nerf it into the ground to the point that no one can heal thru anything and it will become a meta where whoever attacks first wins also promote more zergs as groups will be the only way to heal through damage.

They would be better off with increasing damage across the board and bringing back bleeds/defiles/oblivion damage and increasing dots around 20-30% some more then that depending on the skill but I doubt they would commit to that.

Also CP is a huge problem in PvP with not only performance but because all these extra forms of mitigation, if they made all PvP non CP yes that would anger some elitist "1vxer"but ultimately be healthier for PvP in the game. Only real bad things in non CP are proc sets and really it's only 2 with valkyn and caluurions mainly due the the light armor pen passive but it's not even close to as bad as when they crit, someone wearing those sets isn't getting an "instant win"

exeeter702

JinxxND wrote: »

On the healing note I think that's the worst thing ZOS can do mainly due to there track record of nerfing everything into the ground. I guarantee you if they nerf healing since they don't understand slight nerfs they will nerf it into the ground to the point that no one can heal thru anything and it will become a meta where whoever attacks first wins also promote more zergs as groups will be the only way to heal through damage.

They would be better off with increasing damage across the board and bringing back bleeds/defiles/oblivion damage and increasing dots around 20-30% some more then that depending on the skill but I doubt they would commit to that.

Also CP is a huge problem in PvP with not only performance but because all these extra forms of mitigation, if they made all PvP non CP yes that would anger some elitist "1vxer"but ultimately be healthier for PvP in the game. Only real bad things in non CP are proc sets and really it's only 2 with valkyn and caluurions mainly due the the light armor pen passive but it's not even close to as bad as when they crit, someone wearing those sets isn't getting an "instant win"

Proc sets dont crit

JinxxND

They don't crit and I personally don't have a problem with it but everyone who complains about non CP always say "pRoC sEtS hITs ToOo hArd!"

Imo non CP is 100x better then CP due to performance number 1, 2. more build diversity in that you don't have to worry about every mitigation CP in the book and sustain sets are viable and actually really strong because resource management whereas CP esp right now it's stack as much damage to burst someone down thru the CP buffed healing/mitigation, using a sustain set in CP is just losing damage, you have to give something up with your build where in CP you can go full damage and sustain just fine. 3. Less of a tank meta while healing is still really strong compared to damage since it was nerfed it is still a lot easier to kill thru zergs healing with the right setup.

brandonv516

JinxxND wrote: »

They don't crit and I personally don't have a problem with it but everyone who complains about non CP always say "pRoC sEtS hITs ToOo hArd!"

Imo non CP is 100x better then CP due to performance number 1, 2. more build diversity in that you don't have to worry about every mitigation CP in the book and sustain sets are viable and actually really strong because resource management whereas CP esp right now it's stack as much damage to burst someone down thru the CP buffed healing/mitigation, using a sustain set in CP is just losing damage, you have to give something up with your build where in CP you can go full damage and sustain just fine. 3. Less of a tank meta while healing is still really strong compared to damage since it was nerfed it is still a lot easier to kill thru zergs healing with the right setup.

No CP is better because you really can't afford to have the trinity (damage, defense, & sustain).

The most effective builds I've seen choose two.

Iskiab

brandonv516 wrote: »

JinxxND wrote: »

They don't crit and I personally don't have a problem with it but everyone who complains about non CP always say "pRoC sEtS hITs ToOo hArd!"

Imo non CP is 100x better then CP due to performance number 1, 2. more build diversity in that you don't have to worry about every mitigation CP in the book and sustain sets are viable and actually really strong because resource management whereas CP esp right now it's stack as much damage to burst someone down thru the CP buffed healing/mitigation, using a sustain set in CP is just losing damage, you have to give something up with your build where in CP you can go full damage and sustain just fine. 3. Less of a tank meta while healing is still really strong compared to damage since it was nerfed it is still a lot easier to kill thru zergs healing with the right setup.

No CP is better because you really can't afford to have the trinity (damage, defense, & sustain).

The most effective builds I've seen choose two.

You sort of can though. Just not the high mitigation kind of defense, speed is another form of mitigation and can make you... not tanky, but avoid a lot of damage.

Kadoin

MusCanus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Have you ever thought that what he is suggesting would be OP which is why ZOS has the skill is in the state it is now?

And someone suggesting shadow image heal when you teleport back to it? What? The skill already provides damage avoidance, why exactly would it need to also provide healing and how can you even argue that would not be broken OP?

I've quoted only a part of the post for a reason. I don't have a clear opinion on Shadow Image right now but how replacing a burst heal on Merciless/Relentless with a HoT would be OP? You can argue the strength of the HoT and range at which the bow must be shot for it to apply, but replacing something mostly useless with something useful wouldn't make an ability suddenly OP.

It would be op because then NBs could have how many HoTs running and the only difficulty would be keeping them up. I've said it many times on this forum that an HoT is better than a burst heal in nearly every situation in PvP, and this becomes markedly better when you add and stack more damage reduction and damage avoidance in your gameplay -- which is exactly what nightblade excels at this patch.

That means when such a change hits the PTS, it's going to result in nerfs for certain -- either to how strong the skill heals or they will remove the damage reduction on the skill and/or lower damage significantly in exchange for the HoT.

JinxxND

I don't think that HoTs on a NB are that strong for a few reasons, one the armor buff we have the shortest in the game esp on light/medium armor toons hence why even with the 10% damage mitigation we are extremely squishy because it drops constantly so when we are hit it's without major resolve up, if you think NB are tanky try playing a brawler without rally. HoTs can't really carry this class due to the armor buff in the shadow barrier passive.

I think they should increase the base time of the shadow barrier passive by at least 2 seconds to help with the gaps of major resolve while keeping the class unique in forcing it to go offensive to get it's armor buff.

Iskiab

JinxxND wrote: »

I don't think that HoTs on a NB are that strong for a few reasons, one the armor buff we have the shortest in the game esp on light/medium armor toons hence why even with the 10% damage mitigation we are extremely squishy because it drops constantly so when we are hit it's without major resolve up, if you think NB are tanky try playing a brawler without rally. HoTs can't really carry this class due to the armor buff in the shadow barrier passive.

I think they should increase the base time of the shadow barrier passive by at least 2 seconds to help with the gaps of major resolve while keeping the class unique in forcing it to go offensive to get it's armor buff.

You aren’t really forced to be offensive.

Magblade pvp healers are a thing and I always had 100% uptime on the resolve buff by using refreshing path and dark cloak. I also tanked up to make the most of the hots I had.

Problem was no burst heal. Burst heals are absolutely better than hots. With hots you can stay in a brawl for a bit, but you need them to recover from a burst combo. You can evade for a bit to try and recover but you go down if they keep the pressure up.

It’s the biggest reason why magblade healers require some off healing by other team members to do well - in other words premade only.

It was the combo of high stam burst with dizzy swing and losing the 5% extra mitigation from merciless that made me drop the magblade. I don’t like always running in a premade in pvp.

JinxxND

I think I already listed my changes to fix the class in here somewhere but might as well again.

Shadow Barrier passive increase the base time of major resolve by 2 seconds so it ends up at a base time of 8 seconds of major resolve before heavy armor instead of 6.

Surprise attack apply minor vulnerability for 8 seconds instead of ambush

Ambush lose 10 second minor vulnerability and either become a stun, or applies minor defile to a single target, since lotus fan applies an aoe dot and aoe minor vulnerability

Grim Focus and it's morphs lose the healing attached to both versions and move the heal to Sap Essence and Power Extraction increasing Sap Essence heal and adding a small heal to Power Extraction. Give major brutality/sorcery to each respective morph, They could lose the damage mitigation but then either add minor endurance/intellect or minor berserk/force going back to a damage focused skill.

Summon shade lose minor maim and move it to Aspect of Terror and it's morphs promoting skillful use of the skill and when you want minor main in melee instead of an auto minor maim bot with the shade. Also giving stamina nb a reason to use it again over turn evil.

Incap/Soul harvest remove cast time, lose 120 silence free cc immunity and replace it back with major defile. Keep the ult at 70 at all times. That way both soul harvest and incap are good for each respective class in stam and mag and have small unique bonuses with reave and the ult get on ea morph respectively. Possible could swap the reave passive and the ult gen as well since reave benefits a magblade more with ranged light attacks and the ult get on a stamblade is useful.

Dark cloak increase the heal scaling off your max hp by 3% and allow it to proc conceal weapons speed bonus while dark cloak is active and set offbalance/stun with concealed weapon/surprise attack while dark cloak is active.

Sap Essence loses major sorcery but increases the heal by 10-20% and Power Extraction gains a heal similar to Sap Essences current heal but loses major brutality.

Path of Darkness remove major expedition and move it to either Blur and it's morphs or Cripple and it's morphs, increase the damage/healing of each respective morph by 10-15% base morph would go back to do doing damage lower then twisting path. This would help magblades both dark cloak and shadowy disguise magblades get their speed without revealing there position.

MusCanus

Kadoin wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

MusCanus wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

I personally want the heal to lose the 7m restriction and to be a strong HoT rather than burst. The burst heal on Merciless is redundant most of the time.

Exactly. Heal on the bow works well only in the very specific situation where both you and your opponent have low hp that can be brought down to zero with a couple of GDCs AND both of you decide to finish the opponent rather than go into defensive. And you should be in melee range which is not always the case, especially on a magblade.

Most of the times when you need a burst heal, you need a damage mitigation even more. So heal and mitigation clearly contradict each other.

Have you ever thought that what he is suggesting would be OP which is why ZOS has the skill is in the state it is now?

And someone suggesting shadow image heal when you teleport back to it? What? The skill already provides damage avoidance, why exactly would it need to also provide healing and how can you even argue that would not be broken OP?

I've quoted only a part of the post for a reason. I don't have a clear opinion on Shadow Image right now but how replacing a burst heal on Merciless/Relentless with a HoT would be OP? You can argue the strength of the HoT and range at which the bow must be shot for it to apply, but replacing something mostly useless with something useful wouldn't make an ability suddenly OP.

It would be op because then NBs could have how many HoTs running and the only difficulty would be keeping them up. I've said it many times on this forum that an HoT is better than a burst heal in nearly every situation in PvP, and this becomes markedly better when you add and stack more damage reduction and damage avoidance in your gameplay -- which is exactly what nightblade excels at this patch.

That means when such a change hits the PTS, it's going to result in nerfs for certain -- either to how strong the skill heals or they will remove the damage reduction on the skill and/or lower damage significantly in exchange for the HoT.

That's the point, it's also about the strength of the heal, not just it being burst or HoT. Lowering damage further after stripping it of the Minor Berserk would be too dumb an idea even for ZOS.

Iskiab

I’ve been leveling an alt magblade because I changed factions and took it into some BGs. Magblade is undertuned right from level 10 onwards.

As much as people are recommending tweaks to some abilities, it’s the core base abilities in each tree that suck. I think the class needs more of a complete rework then small tweaks to abilities.

Langeston

Iskiab wrote: »

I’ve been leveling an alt magblade because I changed factions and took it into some BGs. Magblade is undertuned right from level 10 onwards.

As much as people are recommending tweaks to some abilities, it’s the core base abilities in each tree that suck. I think the class needs more of a complete rework then small tweaks to abilities.

Yup.