Most op skills

Davadin · January 2020

this has been an interesting read lol...

but i will say one thing.

about jabs; anyone that played any video game the past 10 years knows how to strafe and keep a distance.

stop it with the "just walk towards them and do xyz..."

jabs is OP. it needs the damage to get reduced, by 20, if not 30%. it's currently too easy to spam, too cheap to spam, and too lethal to spam.

this cant be a spammable skill.

now where is that thread where somebody tested all class' spammables, and jabs come out freakin.... double the damage of every other class spammable?

and LOL for people who think Onslaught is OP. its nerfed to 5 sec and 150 ulti is decent. yes it hits hard, but if u dont want to learn how to deal with it, then ull have to die from it.

and no, i dont use Onslaught. im a stamDK. #Leap4ever

fred4 · January 2020

GRXRG wrote: »

[Cloak] saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right

If you can't deal with a nightblade that cloaks right in your face, you have to l2p. Cloak is broken by so many things. No, it doesn't save me from in-flight Frags and Snipes nor from Dawnbreakers, Shalks, Northern Storm, Sweeps, and so on. It's broken by Curses and by Power of the Light. The uncloak from any of those things is nasty. Curses stack. Sometimes it's explosion after explosion. If I haven't managed to seek out LoS, I'm screwed. Ballista is crazy OP. While Soul Assault can be cloaked after two seconds, I haven't figured out a defense against Ballista at all. Can try and block, shield or LoS it, but cannot Cloak it as far as I know. Need I go on?

The main reason Cloak feels balanced is that some people haven't learnt or made the effort to deal with it or, perhaps, they're running a build that's not very good against nightblades. Well, welcome to the club. Certain templar builds shut me down and a DK flapping wings (still) or anyone using Spell Wall frequently is not worth attacking on my own. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect prevalent throughout the game.

If everyone was good at chasing down nightblades, Cloak would feel extremely broken. All you really need is detection potions. Did you know that nightblades cannot tell when you've used one, other than by taking damage? They do not see that icon above your head. Those potions are extremely nasty. If you are too lazy to switch potions occasionally, I can't help you.

One thing to consider is that NBs might shade. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from Cloak. That's the whole point of the nightblade defensive style, though: To avoid taking damage.

Davadin · January 2020

why is Ballista OP? the other morph has a higher tooltip AND a DoT afterward.

damage wise, Ballista seems "meh"?

NyassaV · January 2020

Jabs isn't OP, just overloaded. Take the snare off and maybe nerf burning light a little.

PhoenixGrey · January 2020

Rahar wrote: »

Coming from primarily a PCNA-PvP-CP Cyrodiil perspective. Will note otherwise.

3. Ball of Lightning. I'm a sorc main, but let's be honest; this one comes right up to a comfy #3 on my list. Movement, projectile absorb, a decent blip of damage, snare/immob immunity... This is too much like the old DK wings, and everyone's sleeping on it. The only reason they are is because the projectile absorb stops working when its used multiple times in a row in typical ZOS magic fashion.

Do you want to do a live demonstration on PC NA on how much damage BOL does so that everyone can witness how blantatly inaccurate your post is?

Sorc main lol !

Koensol · January 2020

A big fat LMAO at the people saying onslaught isn't OP. It is literally the most broken *** in the game, together with vamp drain, pet heal and streak.

Like for real, even in no CP people are hitting 12k onslaughts on people running tanky setups. Ofc it is always followed by non stop 10k executioner spam, another skill that should never have been buffed to begin with. The level of nobrain stamina is this patch is just incredible. Yes it got nerfed. But all that's saying is that it was even more stupid before than it is now.

High MMR BG's in PC EU are literally filled to the brink with monkeys crutching on onslaught and then you find your recap with a 12k onslaught and 4 juicy 8-10k executioners from 3 different people. It so freaking cheesy and above all it is just boring. This is literally the most boring meta ever.

BaiterOfZergs · January 2020

Davadin wrote: »

this has been an interesting read lol...

but i will say one thing.

about jabs; anyone that played any video game the past 10 years knows how to strafe and keep a distance.

stop it with the "just walk towards them and do xyz..."

jabs is OP. it needs the damage to get reduced, by 20, if not 30%. it's currently too easy to spam, too cheap to spam, and too lethal to spam.

this cant be a spammable skill.

now where is that thread where somebody tested all class' spammables, and jabs come out freakin.... double the damage of every other class spammable?

and LOL for people who think Onslaught is OP. its nerfed to 5 sec and 150 ulti is decent. yes it hits hard, but if u dont want to learn how to deal with it, then ull have to die from it.

and no, i dont use Onslaught. im a stamDK. #Leap4ever

You want jabs to get nerfed when there’s already something placed in the game to reduce it by 25 percent. Hitting multiple people also reduces jabs which can be exploited to the defenders advantage. Now throw in resistance, minor protection and major protection and you’ll see jabs is already reduced by a lot more than 20-30 percent.

If built properly jabs aren’t much of a threat not to mention no one should just let a Templar get a full rotation off. While you can strafe, the enemy shouldn’t be behaving like a bot either. The skill is fine but of course if you look at target dummy dps instead of actual pvp combat scenarios it’ll skew things. Note, you only have to land a single dizzying while you have to land more than one jab.

fred4 · January 2020

Davadin wrote: »

why is Ballista OP? the other morph has a higher tooltip AND a DoT afterward.

damage wise, Ballista seems "meh"?

Ballista doesn't tie you up. You stack it with other attacks while it's active.

I am not calling for any nerfs. I only meant to say it's OP against my NB and/or I haven't learnt how to deal with it yet.

Rianai · January 2020

Bow ult is dodgeable (unlike other channeled skills).

fred4 · January 2020

Rianai wrote: »

Bow ult is dodgeable (unlike other channeled skills).

Do I have to keep dodging, though? I'm a magblade. I can't do that for the full duration.

Sanguinor2 · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Do I have to keep dodging, though? I'm a magblade. I can't do that for the full duration.

Best bet is probably to try and dodge to los if you dont have a shade up. I mostly Play magdk and magplar so I manage stamwise against balista (and on templar I can just use remembrance), if you have resto ult you can just use that to survive balista i guess.

Rianai · January 2020

Yes, one dodge is not enough to avoid the full dmg, but it can help to break LOS. Or dodge twice, which will mitigate most dmg - and unless getting zerged/low on stam beforehand - that's possible on mag build too.

Mojomonkeyman · January 2020

Seems PC EU top play has silently shifted to stamina burst again since people figured out their stam necros & wardens, capable of dishing out 30-40k pvp dmg in 1-2 sec to well built opponents, full defile package on top.

Key enabler here is onslaught, the skill is just stupid strong.

ecru · January 2020

Oh yeah, to contribute, Extended Ritual in my opinion is the most overloaded/overpowered skill in the game.

Extended Ritual:

-Largest Ground aoe in the entire game besides Blood Altar.
-Provides Minor Mending to the caster
-Removes 5 debuffs/dots off of the caster
-Heals for as much HPS as Healing Springs but with a duration 3 times as long, and slightly less HPS than Illustrious healing, but for twice as long. One cast of Extended Ritual heals for 40% more than one cast of Illustrious healing. I know people will say, "well, Extended Ritual costs more", but Illustrious Healing (which only heals) only has a 20% higher ratio of healing/mag, and is 85% more efficient than Healing Springs.
-Permanently snares everyone inside of the ground aoe for 24 seconds, in my opinion making it the most powerful CC ability in the entire game.
-Provides the most powerful synergy in the game to group members (Purify), giving them resources back when they activate the synergy, providing a large burst heal, and removing all debuffs/dots from the person activating the synergy. This gives Extended Ritual the power to mitigate more damage and more debuffs than essentially any other ability in the game with a single cast, including ults. Consider Efficient Purge or Cleanse, which costs much more, removes less off of the caster than Extended RItual, and has a limit to the amount of debuffs it can remove per cast. I realize the synergy is on a cooldown, but everything you're getting from that synergy, even every 20 seconds, is better than abilities that cost much more mag. Purify has saved my ass and allowed me live when I otherwise would have died waaaay too many times to count in a BG.

It's basically three abilities in one. On it's own, the heal, the duration, and the area it covers is already extremely powerful. Then you throw in the self purge, minor mending, and the synergy, the snare and.. what? I don't understand why this ability still exists in it's current form, but then again I don't understand most of the balance decisions that ZOS makes.

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

Thogard wrote: »

matriarch
corrosive
any buggy animation-locked CC (vamp drain, mag jav, etc)
bombard
dmg harmonies w/ harmony trait (nova, graveyard, standard, etc)

it was actually a much shorter list than i thought it would be...

I think certain EFFECTS are stupid OP. Minor maim, for instance, needs to be 8% or 5%, not 15%.. but I'm not putting low slash on there because it's not the skill, it's the secondary status effect which can be applied from multiple skills.

I really want to put blastbones on there too, but it's only strong when used in conjunction with glacial. It's strength outside of that is more in the targetable and unpredictable nature of the pet, which is more of a pets-in-general thing than a blast bones thing. SPeaking of which, major vuln and major protection should be 20% each, not 30%.

Do you think the survivability part of corrosive armor is overperforming or the penetration? I'm curious as to what makes you think this ultimate overperforms after its nerf.(and the fact that they gave its unique effect to onslaught making it the most potent burst ultimate in the current meta, I don't get why corrosive makes in this list but onslaught does not.)

ecru · January 2020

Corrosive in it's current form is fine. The ult doesn't even buff all of your damage like it used to, and the mitigation isn't nearly as good as it seems with multiple people attacking you. It might be good 1v1 but it's certainly not shifting the balance of an entire BG like Extended RItual is. It's in a good spot for an ability that costs 200 ult.

Trancestor · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

[Cloak] saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right

If you can't deal with a nightblade that cloaks right in your face, you have to l2p. Cloak is broken by so many things. No, it doesn't save me from in-flight Frags and Snipes nor from Dawnbreakers, Shalks, Northern Storm, Sweeps, and so on. It's broken by Curses and by Power of the Light. The uncloak from any of those things is nasty. Curses stack. Sometimes it's explosion after explosion. If I haven't managed to seek out LoS, I'm screwed. Ballista is crazy OP. While Soul Assault can be cloaked after two seconds, I haven't figured out a defense against Ballista at all. Can try and block, shield or LoS it, but cannot Cloak it as far as I know. Need I go on?

The main reason Cloak feels balanced is that some people haven't learnt or made the effort to deal with it or, perhaps, they're running a build that's not very good against nightblades. Well, welcome to the club. Certain templar builds shut me down and a DK flapping wings (still) or anyone using Spell Wall frequently is not worth attacking on my own. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect prevalent throughout the game.

If everyone was good at chasing down nightblades, Cloak would feel extremely broken. All you really need is detection potions. Did you know that nightblades cannot tell when you've used one, other than by taking damage? They do not see that icon above your head. Those potions are extremely nasty. If you are too lazy to switch potions occasionally, I can't help you.

One thing to consider is that NBs might shade. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from Cloak. That's the whole point of the nightblade defensive style, though: To avoid taking damage.

I don't buy the claim that nbs have no choice but to crutch on cloak, especially this patch with how high self healing is, i can play my stamnb in medium and 2 dmg sets without cloak and do just fine, maybe cloak crutchers are the ones who need to l2p or l2build, some of them are so squishy they are probably in full divines.
Same with magnb, no good magnb crutches on cloak, shade/shields/rr are their main defense and even heavy armor dark cloak + stacking heals works really well. There are ways to play nb without cloak spam, you just refuse to do it and say everyone else has to adapt their builds because of that.

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

ecru wrote: »

Corrosive in it's current form is fine. The ult doesn't even buff all of your damage like it used to, and the mitigation isn't nearly as good as it seems with multiple people attacking you. It might be good 1v1 but it's certainly not shifting the balance of an entire BG like Extended RItual is. It's in a good spot for an ability that costs 200 ult.

That is why I'm suprised it made @Thogard 's list. Sure it lets me get kills on tanky targets that I otherwise would not be able to get, but isn't it comical that DK needs 12 seconds of full penetration to be able to kill targets in the first place? There is a lot wrong with the current meta and dots are in a comical state. I won't deny I use corrosive armor or onslaught quite often in 1v1 but the meta dictates it.

I'm hitting a 30k tooltip take flight , it crits, and my enemy mitigates it down to 6k, which leaves him with 24k more hp, how am I to kill these people otherwise?

fred4 · January 2020

Trancestor wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

[Cloak] saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right

If you can't deal with a nightblade that cloaks right in your face, you have to l2p. Cloak is broken by so many things. No, it doesn't save me from in-flight Frags and Snipes nor from Dawnbreakers, Shalks, Northern Storm, Sweeps, and so on. It's broken by Curses and by Power of the Light. The uncloak from any of those things is nasty. Curses stack. Sometimes it's explosion after explosion. If I haven't managed to seek out LoS, I'm screwed. Ballista is crazy OP. While Soul Assault can be cloaked after two seconds, I haven't figured out a defense against Ballista at all. Can try and block, shield or LoS it, but cannot Cloak it as far as I know. Need I go on?

The main reason Cloak feels balanced is that some people haven't learnt or made the effort to deal with it or, perhaps, they're running a build that's not very good against nightblades. Well, welcome to the club. Certain templar builds shut me down and a DK flapping wings (still) or anyone using Spell Wall frequently is not worth attacking on my own. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect prevalent throughout the game.

If everyone was good at chasing down nightblades, Cloak would feel extremely broken. All you really need is detection potions. Did you know that nightblades cannot tell when you've used one, other than by taking damage? They do not see that icon above your head. Those potions are extremely nasty. If you are too lazy to switch potions occasionally, I can't help you.

One thing to consider is that NBs might shade. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from Cloak. That's the whole point of the nightblade defensive style, though: To avoid taking damage.

I don't buy the claim that nbs have no choice but to crutch on cloak, especially this patch with how high self healing is, i can play my stamnb in medium and 2 dmg sets without cloak and do just fine, maybe cloak crutchers are the ones who need to l2p or l2build, some of them are so squishy they are probably in full divines.
Same with magnb, no good magnb crutches on cloak, shade/shields/rr are their main defense and even heavy armor dark cloak + stacking heals works really well. There are ways to play nb without cloak spam, you just refuse to do it and say everyone else has to adapt their builds because of that.

I get it, you're a cloak hater and a snob. You're welcome to your opinion. When I play magblade I don't do it to crutch on cloak, I do it because cloak is something unique. I also play other classes. I have no desire to play NB like those. To each their own.

Zabagad · January 2020

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

You want jabs to get nerfed when there’s already something placed in the game to reduce it by 25 percent.

@BaiterOfZergs - Sorry for that noob question - but how do you reduce it by 25 percent? (I don't use jabs and I don't use major evasion either)

I thought that:

Puncturing Strikes:
This ability and its morphs will now snare the nearest enemy hit by 40% every time it deals damage, rather than snaring the nearest enemy hit by 70% on the final hit.
This ability and its morphs will now properly be considered Direct Damage attacks rather than a hybrid of Direct Damage and Damage over Time. Note that some item sets may still erroneously trigger from the attack, and will be fixed in a future update.
Updated the visual effects of this ability to better sync up with its attacks

means that Major Evasion doesn't reduce jabs any longer?

And btw @Joy_Division

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why are you trying to dodge Sweeps? Stop trying to dodge undodgeable skills.

I'm not sure you mean that how I understand it, but beside from jabs - is there any reliable source where I can see:
- which skills are dodgeable
- which skills are blockable
- which skills are counted as projectiles
and so on?

Trancestor · January 2020

fred4 wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

[Cloak] saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right

If you can't deal with a nightblade that cloaks right in your face, you have to l2p. Cloak is broken by so many things. No, it doesn't save me from in-flight Frags and Snipes nor from Dawnbreakers, Shalks, Northern Storm, Sweeps, and so on. It's broken by Curses and by Power of the Light. The uncloak from any of those things is nasty. Curses stack. Sometimes it's explosion after explosion. If I haven't managed to seek out LoS, I'm screwed. Ballista is crazy OP. While Soul Assault can be cloaked after two seconds, I haven't figured out a defense against Ballista at all. Can try and block, shield or LoS it, but cannot Cloak it as far as I know. Need I go on?

The main reason Cloak feels balanced is that some people haven't learnt or made the effort to deal with it or, perhaps, they're running a build that's not very good against nightblades. Well, welcome to the club. Certain templar builds shut me down and a DK flapping wings (still) or anyone using Spell Wall frequently is not worth attacking on my own. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect prevalent throughout the game.

If everyone was good at chasing down nightblades, Cloak would feel extremely broken. All you really need is detection potions. Did you know that nightblades cannot tell when you've used one, other than by taking damage? They do not see that icon above your head. Those potions are extremely nasty. If you are too lazy to switch potions occasionally, I can't help you.

One thing to consider is that NBs might shade. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from Cloak. That's the whole point of the nightblade defensive style, though: To avoid taking damage.

I don't buy the claim that nbs have no choice but to crutch on cloak, especially this patch with how high self healing is, i can play my stamnb in medium and 2 dmg sets without cloak and do just fine, maybe cloak crutchers are the ones who need to l2p or l2build, some of them are so squishy they are probably in full divines.
Same with magnb, no good magnb crutches on cloak, shade/shields/rr are their main defense and even heavy armor dark cloak + stacking heals works really well. There are ways to play nb without cloak spam, you just refuse to do it and say everyone else has to adapt their builds because of that.

I get it, you're a cloak hater and a snob. You're welcome to your opinion. When I play magblade I don't do it to crutch on cloak, I do it because cloak is something unique. I also play other classes. I have no desire to play NB like those. To each their own.

Not saying cloak should be deleted, i just think its ridiculous in some situations where its spammed and something should be done about it. You will still be able go invisible only you will have to adapt to other defensive areas and maybe invest in some defense like every other class.

Qbiken · January 2020

@Zabagad
Major evasion reduces damage of jabs, it's still an AoE even though it was changed from being considered a damage over time ability, to a direct damage ability.

Sanguinor2 · January 2020

ecru wrote: »

Oh yeah, to contribute, Extended Ritual in my opinion is the most overloaded/overpowered skill in the game.

Extended Ritual:

-Largest Ground aoe in the entire game besides Blood Altar.
-Provides Minor Mending to the caster
-Removes 5 debuffs/dots off of the caster
-Heals for as much HPS as Healing Springs but with a duration 3 times as long, and slightly less HPS than Illustrious healing, but for twice as long. One cast of Extended Ritual heals for 40% more than one cast of Illustrious healing. I know people will say, "well, Extended Ritual costs more", but Illustrious Healing (which only heals) only has a 20% higher ratio of healing/mag, and is 85% more efficient than Healing Springs.
-Permanently snares everyone inside of the ground aoe for 24 seconds, in my opinion making it the most powerful CC ability in the entire game.
-Provides the most powerful synergy in the game to group members (Purify), giving them resources back when they activate the synergy, providing a large burst heal, and removing all debuffs/dots from the person activating the synergy. This gives Extended Ritual the power to mitigate more damage and more debuffs than essentially any other ability in the game with a single cast, including ults. Consider Efficient Purge or Cleanse, which costs much more, removes less off of the caster than Extended RItual, and has a limit to the amount of debuffs it can remove per cast. I realize the synergy is on a cooldown, but everything you're getting from that synergy, even every 20 seconds, is better than abilities that cost much more mag. Purify has saved my ass and allowed me live when I otherwise would have died waaaay too many times to count in a BG.

It's basically three abilities in one. On it's own, the heal, the duration, and the area it covers is already extremely powerful. Then you throw in the self purge, minor mending, and the synergy, the snare and.. what? I don't understand why this ability still exists in it's current form, but then again I don't understand most of the balance decisions that ZOS makes.

Probably because you only look at it on paper. No one in PvP will stand in ritual for something even close to 24 seconds and the snare doesnt exist as soon as someone gets snared by virtually every other snare in the game since it gets overridden by higher % snares to which templars also have Access to (sweeps snare will negate ritual snare, same with reflective light or either eclipse Morph, so the snare passive is Pretty redundant I wouldnt mind it getting replaced by something else) so basically as soon as you fight someone as magplar the ritual snare might aswell not exist.
On a light armor magplar the cost difference between ritual and efficient purge is around 400 mag and purge only removes 2 debuffs less than ritual but it also removes 3 debuffs for 5 additional People if you have them in your Group.
Why the Synergy is the way it is idk either tbh and you could probably introduce some cap for the debuffs it can remove and it would still be useful.

Ritual is strong, as it should be as one of the class defining abilities, but so are streak/bol and cloak, which have the potential to mitigate much more Damage than ritual does.

Iskiab · January 2020

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Seems PC EU top play has silently shifted to stamina burst again since people figured out their stam necros & wardens, capable of dishing out 30-40k pvp dmg in 1-2 sec to well built opponents, full defile package on top.

Key enabler here is onslaught, the skill is just stupid strong.

Really? This has been how PC-NA has been for a long time. It’s what did in magblade healers. It’s actually less effective then it was when dizzy stunned.

Joy_Division · January 2020

Zabagad wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

You want jabs to get nerfed when there’s already something placed in the game to reduce it by 25 percent.

@BaiterOfZergs - Sorry for that noob question - but how do you reduce it by 25 percent? (I don't use jabs and I don't use major evasion either)

I thought that:

Puncturing Strikes:
This ability and its morphs will now snare the nearest enemy hit by 40% every time it deals damage, rather than snaring the nearest enemy hit by 70% on the final hit.
This ability and its morphs will now properly be considered Direct Damage attacks rather than a hybrid of Direct Damage and Damage over Time. Note that some item sets may still erroneously trigger from the attack, and will be fixed in a future update.
Updated the visual effects of this ability to better sync up with its attacks

means that Major Evasion doesn't reduce jabs any longer?

And btw @Joy_Division

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why are you trying to dodge Sweeps? Stop trying to dodge undodgeable skills.

I'm not sure you mean that how I understand it, but beside from jabs - is there any reliable source where I can see:
- which skills are dodgeable
- which skills are blockable
- which skills are counted as projectiles
and so on?

@Zabagad

ZOS tries to be consistent with the mechanics as far as dodgeable/blockable.

If it's an AoE (like Jabs), then you can't dodge it.
If it's a ground AoE (like Wall of Fire), then you can't block it.
If it's a range attack and not a beam (like Crystal Fragment), then it's a projectile.

Also direct damage has nothing to do with Major Evasion. That buff reduces AoE effects, which jabs is.

Zabagad · January 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Zabagad

ZOS tries to be consistent with the mechanics as far as dodgeable/blockable.

If it's an AoE (like Jabs), then you can't dodge it.
If it's a ground AoE (like Wall of Fire), then you can't block it.
If it's a range attack and not a beam (like Crystal Fragment), then it's a projectile.

Also direct damage has nothing to do with Major Evasion. That buff reduces AoE effects, which jabs is.

Ty @Joy_Division and @Qbiken
Now I understand what they changed to jabs and now it makes much more sense for me

So, then I would like to ask you two more OT questions @Joy_Division:
I understand that you cannot dodge the dmg like from a projectile, but I can roll out of the AOE-area with that dodge - so it's not really useless/senseless like you implied when you say: "Stop trying to dodge undodgeable skills."?

And do I understand that right, that LA and HA from fire/ice staff are then count as projectiles - HA from lightning/healing staff are not because these are beams?

TY in advance - if you answer again, I will only click " Insightful" to stop the OT part

Iskiab · January 2020

Zabagad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Zabagad

ZOS tries to be consistent with the mechanics as far as dodgeable/blockable.

If it's an AoE (like Jabs), then you can't dodge it.
If it's a ground AoE (like Wall of Fire), then you can't block it.
If it's a range attack and not a beam (like Crystal Fragment), then it's a projectile.

Also direct damage has nothing to do with Major Evasion. That buff reduces AoE effects, which jabs is.

Ty @Joy_Division and @Qbiken
Now I understand what they changed to jabs and now it makes much more sense for me

So, then I would like to ask you two more OT questions @Joy_Division:
I understand that you cannot dodge the dmg like from a projectile, but I can roll out of the AOE-area with that dodge - so it's not really useless/senseless like you implied when you say: "Stop trying to dodge undodgeable skills."?

And do I understand that right, that LA and HA from fire/ice staff are then count as projectiles - HA from lightning/healing staff are not because these are beams?

TY in advance - if you answer again, I will only click " Insightful" to stop the OT part

Yup, this is right. You can kite the Templar unless they’re faster then you.

nublife01 · January 2020

Trancestor wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

Trancestor wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

[Cloak] saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right

If you can't deal with a nightblade that cloaks right in your face, you have to l2p. Cloak is broken by so many things. No, it doesn't save me from in-flight Frags and Snipes nor from Dawnbreakers, Shalks, Northern Storm, Sweeps, and so on. It's broken by Curses and by Power of the Light. The uncloak from any of those things is nasty. Curses stack. Sometimes it's explosion after explosion. If I haven't managed to seek out LoS, I'm screwed. Ballista is crazy OP. While Soul Assault can be cloaked after two seconds, I haven't figured out a defense against Ballista at all. Can try and block, shield or LoS it, but cannot Cloak it as far as I know. Need I go on?

The main reason Cloak feels balanced is that some people haven't learnt or made the effort to deal with it or, perhaps, they're running a build that's not very good against nightblades. Well, welcome to the club. Certain templar builds shut me down and a DK flapping wings (still) or anyone using Spell Wall frequently is not worth attacking on my own. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect prevalent throughout the game.

If everyone was good at chasing down nightblades, Cloak would feel extremely broken. All you really need is detection potions. Did you know that nightblades cannot tell when you've used one, other than by taking damage? They do not see that icon above your head. Those potions are extremely nasty. If you are too lazy to switch potions occasionally, I can't help you.

One thing to consider is that NBs might shade. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from Cloak. That's the whole point of the nightblade defensive style, though: To avoid taking damage.

I don't buy the claim that nbs have no choice but to crutch on cloak, especially this patch with how high self healing is, i can play my stamnb in medium and 2 dmg sets without cloak and do just fine, maybe cloak crutchers are the ones who need to l2p or l2build, some of them are so squishy they are probably in full divines.
Same with magnb, no good magnb crutches on cloak, shade/shields/rr are their main defense and even heavy armor dark cloak + stacking heals works really well. There are ways to play nb without cloak spam, you just refuse to do it and say everyone else has to adapt their builds because of that.

I get it, you're a cloak hater and a snob. You're welcome to your opinion. When I play magblade I don't do it to crutch on cloak, I do it because cloak is something unique. I also play other classes. I have no desire to play NB like those. To each their own.

Not saying cloak should be deleted, i just think its ridiculous in some situations where its spammed and something should be done about it. You will still be able go invisible only you will have to adapt to other defensive areas and maybe invest in some defense like every other class.

Let me know what class/spec you play and I can teach you how to get a stamblade out of stealth without needing any extra skills to do so.

Some classes/builds don't even need to be able to get us out of stealth for example a magcro can just cast blastbones vampdrain and graverobber and just global us before we can get away. MagDk's can just fossilize into derp dragon leap ulti. And even so, being able to cloak away does not mean we are killing you where as getting us out of cloak is an easy win condition for you.

Also there are other classes with just as powerful kiting abilities while having other utilities nightblades don't have. Sorcs can spam streak away. Templars can kite with spamming their aoe purge/slow. Dk's can instantly leap away. I'm sure there are others. We're not the only class with a get out of jail free card.

TheBonesXXX · January 2020

ecru wrote: »

Jabs/sweep do as much damage as blastbones without burning light. They have essentially the same tooltip. Jabs/sweep also does the same damage as shalks. It's an extremely overtuned skill, and combined with Onslaught you can eat a single channel of jabs for nearly half your hp.

The idea that you can just "avoid" jabs by moving to the side is ridiculous. If you're avoiding someone's channel of jabs that easily, they're a very bad player and weren't going to be a threat to begin with.

They need to take a look at Scythe and Rapid Strikes if they're going to keep Jabs over loaded.

ZOS is very inconsistent with their changes.

WreckfulAbandon · January 2020

BRP DW. It's a 2pc back bar set that provides entirely too much mitigation especially against Templars. 2 pc back bar + one button = mitigate 55% of AoE damage.