Most op skills

ThePhantomThorn

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

JinxxND

1. Jabs I really haven't had any issues with jabs but I always have a form of major evasion on bar as a magblade and now stamblade since the class lacks the healing to heal thru all of it then counter with a cc. I think that skill is fine it has snared since the beginning of time seemingly only reason people are doing big dmg with it is cause sets like new moon but that's due to the meta. I think if anything they can reduce the snare on it to 30% the same snare as rending slashes so it's not as intense but that's about it.

2. Vamp Drain while the damage is super high compared to every other dot in the game the skill is extremely counterable by just blocking leaving them in a channel animation in which you can bash them and stun them and it's single target like fossilize, is the cc a lil buggy to break sometimes yes, does it suck when you get zerged down with it yes but anything sucks at that point. Honestly I think it's mainly the buggy cc but that's associated with alot of skill like the dk leap which sometimes makes you power slide and not get any control of your character.

3. Streak yea this one is busted, whoever thought making a ranged gap closer/escape tool that cc's everything in it's path and behind the sorc unblockable is crazy, it was already strong before but if you knew the sorc was about to streak you would block it and be fine and it already countered dodge rollers. Getting the cost reduce to the fatigue I think was enough of a buff. They really need to make this one blockable again and I think it will be fine, right now it's acting like the old rune cage and there is nothing you can do about it cause it's huge range.

Thogard

matriarch
corrosive
any buggy animation-locked CC (vamp drain, mag jav, etc)
bombard
dmg harmonies w/ harmony trait (nova, graveyard, standard, etc)

it was actually a much shorter list than i thought it would be...

I think certain EFFECTS are stupid OP. Minor maim, for instance, needs to be 8% or 5%, not 15%.. but I'm not putting low slash on there because it's not the skill, it's the secondary status effect which can be applied from multiple skills.

I really want to put blastbones on there too, but it's only strong when used in conjunction with glacial. It's strength outside of that is more in the targetable and unpredictable nature of the pet, which is more of a pets-in-general thing than a blast bones thing. SPeaking of which, major vuln and major protection should be 20% each, not 30%.

KurtAngle2

- Streak (does too much)
- Onslaught and Take Flight (the damage/cost ratio is off, lower their damage or increase the ultimate costs)
- Crystal Fragments (RNG *** with *** of damage and practically no cost at all, needs a redesign)
- Subterranean Assault (Too easy to use for such a heavy hitter that is easy to land, needs a damage nerf)
- Permafrost (Damage, Tankyness for the team AND SEVENTY PERCENT SLOW? Remove one of effects)
- Vamp Drain (It literally has everything and offers too much utility, devs need to realize that it either does a *** ton of utility or it deals *** ton of damage, NOT BOTH)
- Executioner (No idea why it was buffed to 400%, it was already the second best execute in the game alongside Endless Fury)
- Elusive Mist (not applicable to every build but if used correctly it's an out of jail card with crazy damage reduction, needs a rework)

Iskiab

I’d add shimmering shield, or actually all projectile absorption abilities.

Standardize them to 30% projectile damage reduction instead of projectile immunity or 50% reduction. Change them into a buff.

Lord-Otto

Yes. What this game needs is more nerfs to make the combat even staler. Every skill should do just one thing only.
Make your lists, guys, but don't come to me complaining about your class being nerfed into the ground.

Iskiab

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yes. What this game needs is more nerfs to make the combat even staler. Every skill should do just one thing only.
Make your lists, guys, but don't come to me complaining about your class being nerfed into the ground.

Having OP abilities is fine I think. It’d probably be a good idea for every class to have a couple and make them class defining.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t OP things though.

Personally I like the idea of every class having a couple of OP things only they can do.

MerguezMan

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

Roll Forward, no back or sidestep, run upfront, roll, then stun and/or flee.
Unless you have a skill that can push him back (magnum shot), so it makes you out of range.

This is a channelled, front skill. If you do manage to interrupt it, the templar will probably break free, shield up, and jab again, which is a lot of stamina. Repeat, he can't spam that forever.

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

4. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

I also see he's a vampire, halved health regen and 20% more damage from fighters guild.
And it leaves him open to any attack from your teammates for 3s (where Mass hysteria and Turn evil are aoe and hopefully stun a group).

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Has increasing cost and only 15m range. Which means if the sorc streaks away half map, he's out of magicka, burns potion or ultimate to recover, comes back so burns magicka again. Stun or make him run a bit more, he can't have infinite sustain.

Running after a fleeing target might not be your best move.

ThePhantomThorn

MerguezMan wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

Roll Forward, no back or sidestep, run upfront, roll, then stun and/or flee.
Unless you have a skill that can push him back (magnum shot), so it makes you out of range.

This is a channelled, front skill. If you do manage to interrupt it, the templar will probably break free, shield up, and jab again, which is a lot of stamina. Repeat, he can't spam that forever.

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

4. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

I also see he's a vampire, halved health regen and 20% more damage from fighters guild.
And it leaves him open to any attack from your teammates for 3s (where Mass hysteria and Turn evil are aoe and hopefully stun a group).

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Has increasing cost and only 15m range. Which means if the sorc streaks away half map, he's out of magicka, burns potion or ultimate to recover, comes back so burns magicka again. Stun or make him run a bit more, he can't have infinite sustain.

Running after a fleeing target might not be your best move.

these are abilities. op = overpowered. not 'i died help me'

1 instantly follows up with toppling. and jabs cant be interrupted.
2 not always same player. its a 12m undodgable stun. with insane lag.
3 who said i chased. takes 2 - 3 streaks to escape. no counter.

idk

1. Jabs is far to easy to avoid. Just step to the side., circle around the attacker and avoid the damage and win.
2. Easy to counter vamp drain. What is OP is the player who knows how to easily counter such a skill and turns the page on the attacker.
3. Streak hardly does what OP suggests. When someone has to make such an obvious false statement, that a player can streak across half the map, it is clear they are wrong. The significant cost increase for each subsequent use makes that impossible as their is no amount of regen that can keep up with it.

So the first two are easily countered with little effort and the last is OP based on a false statement. It really is that simple.

BaiterOfZergs

No one complained about jabs for years until like last year. The funny thing is they’ve added more counters to the damage than actual buffs , while the skill was still getting double mitigated. The way the damage is calculated can also be exploited by the defenders outside of a 1v1 which is way more common.

I don’t think there’s any op skills right now. Vamp drain isn’t op just has the same broken cc that it had for years. Streak is fine, slot a gap closer which can be spammed if you insist on staying with every player you come across.

Lord-Otto

Iskiab wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yes. What this game needs is more nerfs to make the combat even staler. Every skill should do just one thing only.
Make your lists, guys, but don't come to me complaining about your class being nerfed into the ground.

Having OP abilities is fine I think. It’d probably be a good idea for every class to have a couple and make them class defining.

That doesn’t mean there aren’t OP things though.

Personally I like the idea of every class having a couple of OP things only they can do.

Agreed.

MerguezMan

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

these are abilities. op = overpowered. not 'i died help me'

1 instantly follows up with toppling. and jabs cant be interrupted.
2 not always same player. its a 12m undodgable stun. with insane lag.
3 who said i chased. takes 2 - 3 streaks to escape. no counter.

In the first post you did agree on comments and argue - I'll take that for granted.

I don't think these are "overpowered". They have limited use, and drawbacks.

1) I'm pretty sure I Fossilized jabbers in BGs. Also executed them just after, so I did not take time to ask if they had an annoying interrupt. Though I could find nowhere jabs can't be interrupted.
2) lag is indeed an issue, but I wouldn't blame the skill itself. And you get CC immunity after stun, so long for multiple vampires around you.
3) Focused aim has 40m range. It covers 2.5 streaks

I'm rather for build diversity, which also means we can't have a hard counter for everything in a single build.

For instance, I main a DK,
- I don't have Purge, so I'm glad when I team with a Templar
- I don't have Detection, I use aoe attacks (with very relative success) to spot cloaking NBs
- Most of my attacks rely on dots, so I know it will be a hard time fighting alone against a class with Purge (most Templars, Necromancers, and Wardens)
That being said, I don't consider other classes OP, it's also a matter of player skill, build and personal preferences.

By playing a Nightblade, which probably relies on surprise burst, it's rather normal you'd have hard times against sustain and incap builds. Skills like Living dark, Defensive rune, Beckoning armor wouldn't kill you but are probably more annoying to NBs than the ones you mentionned.

technohic

I posted this in another thread but it works here as well and I will elaborate.

There are things I think are a bit over tuned but after reading the cries for nerfs and then seeing the people who ask for them having huge blind spots to mechanics and counters. People complain about the tank meta, but pay very little mind to getting penetration. People complain about Jabs/Sweeps but refuse to run snare immunity abilities. They complain about stuns on gap closers but they are the easiest stuns to see coming and can be blocked. People complained about defiles, and now complain about heals. People complained about DOTs, and refused efficient purge which is just a couple hundred more magicka than extended ritual, but I know; bar space is limited. Still; dots have been greatly gutted and this added to the "tank meta"

I have to assume anything I think is OP is a L2P issue on my part anymore. Maybe I have a blind spot. I don't know. I do know that things go from bad to worse with every change.

Rahar

Coming from primarily a PCNA-PvP-CP Cyrodiil perspective. Will note otherwise.

1. Crescent Sweep. Sorry (mag) Templars; this is probably the most overloaded ultimate in the game right now off the top of my head. The damage approaching that of a Dawnbreaker when used right, with an instant cast time, at a 75 ultimate cost (lol), can't be roll dodged, comes on a class with extra damage vs block, grants minor protection, has a chance of proccing burning light... need I go on? On the other hand, all classes should have ults like this.

2. Toppling Charge. I don't mean to pick on magplars, but what do you expect? Aedric Spear is just that good. A gap closer that stuns, deals a good amount of damage, sets off balance for the juicy damage buff, grants minor protection, can proc burning light... The one saving grace is that it can be rolled or blocked and doesn't snare, so it misses the #1 spot to Crescent.

3. Ball of Lightning. I'm a sorc main, but let's be honest; this one comes right up to a comfy #3 on my list. Movement, projectile absorb, a decent blip of damage, snare/immob immunity... This is too much like the old DK wings, and everyone's sleeping on it. The only reason they are is because the projectile absorb stops working when its used multiple times in a row in typical ZOS magic fashion.

(Dis)honorable Mentions

1. Streak. Basically BoL without the defensive goodies and with an unavoidable stun. Needs to be able to be blocked or dodged but not unavoidable by either. I'd prefer blocked. Touch anything else or the movement on this skill and sorc is dead forever. Bring a gap closer if it's that much of an issue to you. Those who say that this is the most overloaded of the two Bolt Escape morphs are deluded, ignorant, or both. BoL does so much more.

2. PotL/Purifying Light. I'm desperately trying to find a reason not to pick on Templars, but this one does too much damage now. 'Boom baby' is right. With everything else that works so darn well in the Templar kit, this seems a little bit much, but it's a good addition overall if some of the other skills could get toned down or other not-Templar skills get toned up.

3. Shimmering Shield. Just this morph. Bet you didn't expect to see a warden skill here, huh? Truth is, if it was on any other class it would have been dealt with already. Projectile absorb, Major Heroism to feed good warden ults (every time this gets used with trees I die a little inside), gives you back 2/3 the magicka you use to cast it when it actually procs. Strong. On the line of being too good. Where a lot of other skills should aim to be.

BaiterOfZergs

When did it become a trend to include passives as a reason for a skill to be overloaded ? I notice it’s only with certain skills too. If we consider passives then technically almost every skill is overloaded, especially if you name perks without context. Like saying stone fist is op then listing everything that “comes with it”

Rahar

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

When did it become a trend to include passives as a reason for a skill to be overloaded ? I notice it’s only with certain skills too. If we consider passives then technically almost every skill is overloaded, especially if you name perks without context. Like saying stone fist is op then listing everything that “comes with it”

It's not just the passives. Templar passives are incredibly strong, and I mean that in the best way possible; I wish other classes had passives like it. However, you can cut out the passives from all of the skills I mentioned and still see an issue with most of them.

Qbiken

Templars are strong in 1v1 and very oppressive in Xv1 scenarios, but in most other situations it doesn't come close to be overperforming imo.

In terms of overtuned stuff I'll go with what Thogard wrote in his comment above (except synergy bombing which I think is kinda unqiue mechanic/playstyle I think should stay)

Rahar

Qbiken wrote: »

Templars are strong in 1v1 and very oppressive in Xv1 scenarios, but in most other situations it doesn't come close to be overperforming imo.

To clarify, I think it's simply the mag morph skills that are overperforming. I'm not necessarily calling for a nerf (except maybe on crescent, where the ult cost could go up by a little bit), but I am calling for Templar to be the standard for what classes should be balanced to. Typically, that direction would be up.

Tommy_The_Gun

Forum Warrior class has "Nerf Thread" skill...

Iskiab

Templar’s not OP I think.

The status quo is longer time experienced pvp players usually play classes with some sort of projectile absorption ability. If a stam DBs them with dizzy and executioner they think nothing of it. People are just used to melee and not worrying much about ranged.

Even against other stam projectile absorptions are effective at reducing bow burst. Magtemplar is just a playstyle that uses no projectiles so seems OP to those classes that rely on projectile absorptions for defense.

With that being said... yea, crescent is pretty cheap.

BaiterOfZergs

Rahar wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

When did it become a trend to include passives as a reason for a skill to be overloaded ? I notice it’s only with certain skills too. If we consider passives then technically almost every skill is overloaded, especially if you name perks without context. Like saying stone fist is op then listing everything that “comes with it”

It's not just the passives. Templar passives are incredibly strong, and I mean that in the best way possible; I wish other classes had passives like it. However, you can cut out the passives from all of the skills I mentioned and still see an issue with most of them.

But how did Templar passives go from decent to incredibly strong ? Not much has changed with them. Before it was NB and Sorcs that people said had the strong passives.

I’ve said ritual of retribution and toppling was overloaded in the past though, still stand by that.

Bullseyebudx

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

No Onslaught, Negate, Fossilize?
You got Streak okay... Unblockable is OP.
I think being Invisible is ridiculously OP.
CC plus lag is OP.
Alternating CC's with Immobilize is OP.

If I had it my way; Silence would be completely removed from the game because I can't even get behind supporting a stamina hose version of the effect, wearing heavy armor would and should increase your detection radius, and there should be no unblockable skills.

I'd completely overhaul how CC and immobilizations work, I'd gut break free, and I'd work directly on addressing the issue Break Free was attempting to solve.

Vamp drain is on the forums because D Swing no longer has a stun rest assured.

It was ridiculous in the DOT meta patch and no one said a word.

The initial cast of the ability is Dodgable, once you're in the channel the damage is not dodgable no; because you can block, stealth, dodge roll out of the channel range, shield bash, or just sprint...away...because you're opponent is in a channel.....

Jabs is good but the HEALING effect on Sweeps is probably the issue which I don't even see mentioned here...

I wonder how crits effects the heal on that ability hmmm...ALL other enemies, I wonder.
Plus extra damage against blocking opponents.
Jeez compared to Swallow Soul or Sap Essence...

oh Vamp drain how I wish you were as good as sweeps.

Rahar

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

When did it become a trend to include passives as a reason for a skill to be overloaded ? I notice it’s only with certain skills too. If we consider passives then technically almost every skill is overloaded, especially if you name perks without context. Like saying stone fist is op then listing everything that “comes with it”

It's not just the passives. Templar passives are incredibly strong, and I mean that in the best way possible; I wish other classes had passives like it. However, you can cut out the passives from all of the skills I mentioned and still see an issue with most of them.

But how did Templar passives go from decent to incredibly strong ? Not much has changed with them. Before it was NB and Sorcs that people said had the strong passives.

I’ve said ritual of retribution and toppling was overloaded in the past though, still stand by that.

I think it's the perception. They've always been incredibly strong -- it's just that people's OP radar only homed in on NB and Sorc in the past. Now that Templar has the limelight due to the recent buffs and the gutting of NB, everyone needs a new scapegoat.

Iskiab wrote: »

Templar’s not OP I think.

The status quo is longer time experienced pvp players usually play classes with some sort of projectile absorption ability. If a stam DBs them with dizzy and executioner they think nothing of it. People are just used to melee and not worrying much about ranged.

Even against other stam projectile absorptions are effective at reducing bow burst. Magtemplar is just a playstyle that uses no projectiles so seems OP to those classes that rely on projectile absorptions for defense.

With that being said... yea, crescent is pretty cheap.

I dont think the class is OP, only a few of the skills. Templar is in a great spot right now overall; strong, but not completely and utterly busted. Magplar comes the closest to busted because of these.

TheBonesXXX

1) QQ on the forums. - Anything a player gets killed by *must* be nerfed. There are very little honest players giving fair feedback, only liars getting what they deem bad nerfed into the dirt, ex pressure builds, dots, etc.

2) Performance - Self explanatory, too many sweeping and faulty takes on skills when they do not perform under proper conditions.

3) The Current CP system. - Too much of everything, CP gives too much stat with little drawback.

WreckfulAbandon

Iskiab wrote: »

With that being said... yea, crescent is pretty cheap.

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

I’ve said ritual of retribution and toppling was overloaded in the past though, still stand by that.

Just because someone on the forums says something is an "issue" doesn't make it so.

Why do people who don't feel the need to ask for nerfs still find it necessary to make some kind of concession?

Just say no to nerfs. Class nerfs have dumbed down this game so much.

Rahar wrote: »

I dont think the class is OP, only a few of the skills. Templar is in a great spot right now overall; strong, but not completely and utterly busted. Magplar comes the closest to busted because of these.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Magplar is not OP according to you. No need to give any validation by conceding anything.

"Comes closest to busted" just sounds like a stealth nerf request. And if it isn't, it gives ammo to nerf criers. Just. Stop.

BaiterOfZergs

Because something being overloaded doesn’t equate to it being overpowered. Those are two different things. Plus not everyone is going to be completely biased because they play a particular class.

Just because someone says something is okay doesn’t make it okay either. The forum is meant for discussions though, so if anyone can’t take a different opinion then it would be safe for them not to log on.

WreckfulAbandon

Yeah I'll be sure to look out for those completely biased mains who can't take a different opinion.

Solariken

The only skill that is over the top stupid in BGs is Bombard... It's clearly too cheap with the amount of spam that is happening. Increase cost by like 30% and call it a day.

fred4

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

You're a stamblade main. I'm a melee magblade main. As a nightblade I agree with you. As a templar, however, Jabs / Sweeps is a clunky skill that's not nearly as effective against other classes. Yeah, magplar is currently great, monstrous against NBs even, but I still wouldn't play one solo.

Streak is probably NBs #1 counter not by virtue of being the absolute best (detect potions, cough), but by virtue of being such a versatile skill that it's slotted by most sorcs and combined with Lightning Form for additional detection. It's got no counters and sorcs streaking all over the map is quite correct for all intents and purposes, even though I think the ones that do that aren't very good. The best ones I've seen criss-cross the battlefield without really running away from it.

This is a nightblade-centric OP list. I don't disagree, but am not sure how general it is.

Fawn4287

Vamp drain
Streak
C frag
Wrecking blow
Leap
CCs with knock back
All burst heals that don’t have a prerequisite to make them heal huge numbers
All off healing (especially burst off heals)