Most op skills

TheBonesXXX

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

BRP DW. It's a 2pc back bar set that provides entirely too much mitigation especially against Templars. 2 pc back bar, one button protects you from having to play well. Just mitigate 55% of AoE damage with one button press. Seems fair.

I'd say it's fair given how overloaded Jabs is.

nublife01

Templars don't really need a nerf. Just predict/dodge roll overpower, pop an immovable potion, and blow your load into them. Works everytime. Having issues with jabs is a l2p issue. The only change I can possibly think of to the class is that radial sweep needs a cast time if literally everything else including incap strike has a cast time. Stamplar is very balanced and I'm saying this as a stamblade. A good magplar though is roughhhh.

nublife01

fred4 wrote: »

GRXRG wrote: »

[Cloak] saves you literally from everything casted on you if timed right

If you can't deal with a nightblade that cloaks right in your face, you have to l2p. Cloak is broken by so many things. No, it doesn't save me from in-flight Frags and Snipes nor from Dawnbreakers, Shalks, Northern Storm, Sweeps, and so on. It's broken by Curses and by Power of the Light. The uncloak from any of those things is nasty. Curses stack. Sometimes it's explosion after explosion. If I haven't managed to seek out LoS, I'm screwed. Ballista is crazy OP. While Soul Assault can be cloaked after two seconds, I haven't figured out a defense against Ballista at all. Can try and block, shield or LoS it, but cannot Cloak it as far as I know. Need I go on?

The main reason Cloak feels balanced is that some people haven't learnt or made the effort to deal with it or, perhaps, they're running a build that's not very good against nightblades. Well, welcome to the club. Certain templar builds shut me down and a DK flapping wings (still) or anyone using Spell Wall frequently is not worth attacking on my own. It's the rock, paper, scissors effect prevalent throughout the game.

If everyone was good at chasing down nightblades, Cloak would feel extremely broken. All you really need is detection potions. Did you know that nightblades cannot tell when you've used one, other than by taking damage? They do not see that icon above your head. Those potions are extremely nasty. If you are too lazy to switch potions occasionally, I can't help you.

One thing to consider is that NBs might shade. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference from Cloak. That's the whole point of the nightblade defensive style, though: To avoid taking damage.

^This.

Like lol if you don't have detection pots its a L2P issue. Cloak is 100% not overpowered whatsoever just because anyone with half a brain should have detect pots.

Stamblade currently does not do enough damage to front bar a crowd control effect and has a burst rotation that is the easiest to dodge in the game and takes longest to ramp up relative to any other class. If you don't believe me go youtube grimhallow or sniker and they will tell you the same thing and those guys are stamblade yodas. Here is a link to GrimHallow Rigth here: (Just don't listen to his thoughts about not using shuffle or food ideas look at him hes purple don't eat his food)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-2IfvOKip1T3WSG7hozucw

Anyways, spectral bow takes 5 auto attacks and has a travel time that can easily be dodged. Incap is a 70 ulti and has a long cast time and a grossly noticeable spell animation. After setting up both abilities our burst rotation is poison inject-light attack-ambush-med-heavy attack-incap-light attack-spectral bow-execute spam. If either incap or spectral bow are dodge rolled or I am cc'd after incap and before I can land spectral bow then I have to cloak out and reset as both abilities have a ramp up time to them and you will certainly kill my squishy butt if I sit there and try to surprise attack light attack animation cancel in order to set up incap and spectral bow again unless I can pull some brawlblade rabbits out of my butt with cloak or something which usually wont happen. The easiest way to counter this other than simply knowing whats coming and simply dodge rolling is to fossilize, streak, derp dragon leap, vamp drain, piercing javelin, imprison, the list goes on (more than half of which I can't dodge or block) like at any time during my rotation other than after spectral bow because your'e going to die if you're bad enough to let me land that ability let alone incap. Because of this the only way for me to actually kill anyone who doesn't know how to dodge roll is to pop an immovable pot and kill you during the 8 second duration that it lasts (along with ambush for that matter) hoping you don't dodge roll incap or spectral bow.

What I'm getting at here is that if I have to run immovable pots just to have a chance at killing you (where as you don't need immovable pots to kill me as I don't really have a cc), if I have to pop those just to prevent you from cc'ing my 5 auto attack 70 ulti burst rotation set up let alone dodging it... There should be absolutely no reason why you shouldn't have to run detect pots to kill me.

It is absolutely absurd that any of you think that cloak is overpowered when there is literally a potion you can buy at at least a hundred different locations in tamriel that renders my central defensive ability absolutely useless.

Like if I had a potion that could stop a sorc mid streak, prevent a templar from kiting me with their aoe ground slow spam, stop a derp dragon mid leap... I would have that potion hotkey'd just as I have immovable potions and detect potions hokey'd right now.

Cloak is not OP. Stop posting about it I've heard enough.

ZOS look at this forum and read this. Please don't listen to these complaints made by people who cannot simply buy a potion from one of the hundreds of vendors across tamriel to counter our only defensive ability we have that isn't better than something offered by weapon/guild/armor/etc skills. It is absolutely ridiculous that our class has been nerfed the amount of times that it has. We need buffs because a casual player can't pull off that paragraph of text up there ^^^^^ in order to kill someone. Most just run a bow gank build which don't work, roll a different class, or quit the game.

Buff nightblade ZOS. Do it for the casuals.

ecru

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Oh yeah, to contribute, Extended Ritual in my opinion is the most overloaded/overpowered skill in the game.

Extended Ritual:

-Largest Ground aoe in the entire game besides Blood Altar.
-Provides Minor Mending to the caster
-Removes 5 debuffs/dots off of the caster
-Heals for as much HPS as Healing Springs but with a duration 3 times as long, and slightly less HPS than Illustrious healing, but for twice as long. One cast of Extended Ritual heals for 40% more than one cast of Illustrious healing. I know people will say, "well, Extended Ritual costs more", but Illustrious Healing (which only heals) only has a 20% higher ratio of healing/mag, and is 85% more efficient than Healing Springs.
-Permanently snares everyone inside of the ground aoe for 24 seconds, in my opinion making it the most powerful CC ability in the entire game.
-Provides the most powerful synergy in the game to group members (Purify), giving them resources back when they activate the synergy, providing a large burst heal, and removing all debuffs/dots from the person activating the synergy. This gives Extended Ritual the power to mitigate more damage and more debuffs than essentially any other ability in the game with a single cast, including ults. Consider Efficient Purge or Cleanse, which costs much more, removes less off of the caster than Extended RItual, and has a limit to the amount of debuffs it can remove per cast. I realize the synergy is on a cooldown, but everything you're getting from that synergy, even every 20 seconds, is better than abilities that cost much more mag. Purify has saved my ass and allowed me live when I otherwise would have died waaaay too many times to count in a BG.

It's basically three abilities in one. On it's own, the heal, the duration, and the area it covers is already extremely powerful. Then you throw in the self purge, minor mending, and the synergy, the snare and.. what? I don't understand why this ability still exists in it's current form, but then again I don't understand most of the balance decisions that ZOS makes.

Probably because you only look at it on paper. No one in PvP will stand in ritual for something even close to 24 seconds and the snare doesnt exist as soon as someone gets snared by virtually every other snare in the game since it gets overridden by higher % snares to which templars also have Access to (sweeps snare will negate ritual snare, same with reflective light or either eclipse Morph, so the snare passive is Pretty redundant I wouldnt mind it getting replaced by something else) so basically as soon as you fight someone as magplar the ritual snare might aswell not exist.
On a light armor magplar the cost difference between ritual and efficient purge is around 400 mag and purge only removes 2 debuffs less than ritual but it also removes 3 debuffs for 5 additional People if you have them in your Group.
Why the Synergy is the way it is idk either tbh and you could probably introduce some cap for the debuffs it can remove and it would still be useful.

Ritual is strong, as it should be as one of the class defining abilities, but so are streak/bol and cloak, which have the potential to mitigate much more Damage than ritual does.

No one will stand in a ritual? It's the largest ground aoe in the game by a huge amount, the majority of time you don't have the choice to not stand in it. It's placed and replaced every 10-15 seconds basically no matter what, because good players know how good of a skill it is. You always want that heal ticking on yourself/your team, you always want that snare on everyone, and you always want that synergy available to your teammates. Have you ever queued for a BG at high MMR? If it's deathmatch and there are templars in the BG, you will be fighting in a ritual the entire BG, besides when you're respawning. You will be permanently snared the entire time, and on top of that, the snare goes through walls and works above and below the ground on which it's casted, so in certain BGs even running near it with a wall in between you, or below it, you're still snared.

I also don't know why you'd ever directly compare purge in a favorable way to ritual. Ritual heals, gives a synergy, purges yourself, gives minor mending, snares everyone around you, and purges everyone else every 20 seconds. Slotting purge over ritual would be really dumb. Sure, you could slot both, but the group utility/healing/permanently snaring your opponents means it's a requirement to have on your bar. If you're a templar without ritual on your bar, I hope you're never on my team in a BG. The ability isn't just strong, it's one of the best healing abilities in the game, the best cc in the game (by virtue of giving you the ability to constantly kite your opponents/not allow them to kite you), and provides the best synergy in the game. To me that sounds like it's doing a lot more than one ability should ever be doing, unless it's an ult, and it isn't an ult.

killingspreeb16_ESO

Shaloknir wrote: »

Most OP skills are:

1. Cloak
2. Streak
3. Take flight
4. Shimmering shield
5. Jabs

Every class has one. No need to nerf any of the skills. I dont have necro, so I cant list necro skills. Sorry.

I do hope ZOS buffs damage of all skills though to match the current healing power.

As many in this thread has said it even jabs have counter, just like cloak. That is movement, use roll dodge, walk through the jab spammer. Learn from your mistakes. And if you die once in a while, its not the end of the world.

Take away cloak,takeflight and even jabs unless youre a NB from the list of op things.
Jabs might need a minor nerf though.

Takeflight feels like an ultime,like incap did before the nerf and cast time.

Streak need to be atleast blockable.

I would also add that the people complaining about cloak have never actually played a NB for more than 15 min in pvp against decent(not even good)player.

Iskiab

ecru wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Oh yeah, to contribute, Extended Ritual in my opinion is the most overloaded/overpowered skill in the game.

Extended Ritual:

-Largest Ground aoe in the entire game besides Blood Altar.
-Provides Minor Mending to the caster
-Removes 5 debuffs/dots off of the caster
-Heals for as much HPS as Healing Springs but with a duration 3 times as long, and slightly less HPS than Illustrious healing, but for twice as long. One cast of Extended Ritual heals for 40% more than one cast of Illustrious healing. I know people will say, "well, Extended Ritual costs more", but Illustrious Healing (which only heals) only has a 20% higher ratio of healing/mag, and is 85% more efficient than Healing Springs.
-Permanently snares everyone inside of the ground aoe for 24 seconds, in my opinion making it the most powerful CC ability in the entire game.
-Provides the most powerful synergy in the game to group members (Purify), giving them resources back when they activate the synergy, providing a large burst heal, and removing all debuffs/dots from the person activating the synergy. This gives Extended Ritual the power to mitigate more damage and more debuffs than essentially any other ability in the game with a single cast, including ults. Consider Efficient Purge or Cleanse, which costs much more, removes less off of the caster than Extended RItual, and has a limit to the amount of debuffs it can remove per cast. I realize the synergy is on a cooldown, but everything you're getting from that synergy, even every 20 seconds, is better than abilities that cost much more mag. Purify has saved my ass and allowed me live when I otherwise would have died waaaay too many times to count in a BG.

It's basically three abilities in one. On it's own, the heal, the duration, and the area it covers is already extremely powerful. Then you throw in the self purge, minor mending, and the synergy, the snare and.. what? I don't understand why this ability still exists in it's current form, but then again I don't understand most of the balance decisions that ZOS makes.

Probably because you only look at it on paper. No one in PvP will stand in ritual for something even close to 24 seconds and the snare doesnt exist as soon as someone gets snared by virtually every other snare in the game since it gets overridden by higher % snares to which templars also have Access to (sweeps snare will negate ritual snare, same with reflective light or either eclipse Morph, so the snare passive is Pretty redundant I wouldnt mind it getting replaced by something else) so basically as soon as you fight someone as magplar the ritual snare might aswell not exist.
On a light armor magplar the cost difference between ritual and efficient purge is around 400 mag and purge only removes 2 debuffs less than ritual but it also removes 3 debuffs for 5 additional People if you have them in your Group.
Why the Synergy is the way it is idk either tbh and you could probably introduce some cap for the debuffs it can remove and it would still be useful.

Ritual is strong, as it should be as one of the class defining abilities, but so are streak/bol and cloak, which have the potential to mitigate much more Damage than ritual does.

No one will stand in a ritual? It's the largest ground aoe in the game by a huge amount, the majority of time you don't have the choice to not stand in it. It's placed and replaced every 10-15 seconds basically no matter what, because good players know how good of a skill it is. You always want that heal ticking on yourself/your team, you always want that snare on everyone, and you always want that synergy available to your teammates. Have you ever queued for a BG at high MMR? If it's deathmatch and there are templars in the BG, you will be fighting in a ritual the entire BG, besides when you're respawning. You will be permanently snared the entire time, and on top of that, the snare goes through walls and works above and below the ground on which it's casted, so in certain BGs even running near it with a wall in between you, or below it, you're still snared.

I also don't know why you'd ever directly compare purge in a favorable way to ritual. Ritual heals, gives a synergy, purges yourself, gives minor mending, snares everyone around you, and purges everyone else every 20 seconds. Slotting purge over ritual would be really dumb. Sure, you could slot both, but the group utility/healing/permanently snaring your opponents means it's a requirement to have on your bar. If you're a templar without ritual on your bar, I hope you're never on my team in a BG. The ability isn't just strong, it's one of the best healing abilities in the game, the best cc in the game (by virtue of giving you the ability to constantly kite your opponents/not allow them to kite you), and provides the best synergy in the game. To me that sounds like it's doing a lot more than one ability should ever be doing, unless it's an ult, and it isn't an ult.

Agreed, but you’d be shocked how many bad Templars there are. It’s also the class defining thing templars have, so yea, it’s overloaded as hell, has been for a while, and will probably stay that way.

Joy_Division

Zabagad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

@Zabagad

ZOS tries to be consistent with the mechanics as far as dodgeable/blockable.

If it's an AoE (like Jabs), then you can't dodge it.
If it's a ground AoE (like Wall of Fire), then you can't block it.
If it's a range attack and not a beam (like Crystal Fragment), then it's a projectile.

Also direct damage has nothing to do with Major Evasion. That buff reduces AoE effects, which jabs is.

Ty @Joy_Division and @Qbiken
Now I understand what they changed to jabs and now it makes much more sense for me

So, then I would like to ask you two more OT questions @Joy_Division:
I understand that you cannot dodge the dmg like from a projectile, but I can roll out of the AOE-area with that dodge - so it's not really useless/senseless like you implied when you say: "Stop trying to dodge undodgeable skills."?

And do I understand that right, that LA and HA from fire/ice staff are then count as projectiles - HA from lightning/healing staff are not because these are beams?

TY in advance - if you answer again, I will only click " Insightful" to stop the OT part

You can (eventually) dodge your way out of sweeps, but you are taking damage the entire time and what's your follow-up when you stop dodging and the templar users her charge skill and is right on you? Dodge again? Unless you're dodging through friendly players or some sort of LoS (which I'd say the defensive tactic is just that, LoS), then odds the dodge roller is just going to be right back in the same position again.

I've played Templar since Beta and in my experience unless a build has snare immunity and has some sort of speed buff, if they try to dodge roll it's pretty easy to jabs spam them. If you have those buffs, then dodging (or more accurately outmaneuvering) is perfectly viable. Without those buffs, which constitutes the majority of Cyrodiil, trying to dodge an undodgeable skill isn't optimal and the sort of thing that inexperienced players typically do. The best players I have fought on DKs, Wardens, Necros, and obviously other Templars use their own class skills to stand toe-to-toe like a heavy weight fighter. At that point it's a test of who's got the better build and who makes the better adjustment. Sorcs have 3 terrific counters in Streak, hiding in their Zoo, and Shield stacking. The only widlcard is Nightblades. The good ones I have fought had high enough weapon damage to keep me on the defensive more than I'd like, and had Fear or Shade if they got in trouble. Of course, NB requires quite a bit of skill to play and the bad ones who crutch on cloak are easy opponents. In general, I think players would be better off if they tried a more aggressive approach to anything they think is "over-performing" instead of coming onto these forums and asking for nerfs.

You are correct about the staff attacks

Sanguinor2

ecru wrote: »

No one will stand in a ritual? It's the largest ground aoe in the game by a huge amount, the majority of time you don't have the choice to not stand in it. It's placed and replaced every 10-15 seconds basically no matter what, because good players know how good of a skill it is. You always want that heal ticking on yourself/your team, you always want that snare on everyone, and you always want that synergy available to your teammates. Have you ever queued for a BG at high MMR? If it's deathmatch and there are templars in the BG, you will be fighting in a ritual the entire BG, besides when you're respawning. You will be permanently snared the entire time, and on top of that, the snare goes through walls and works above and below the ground on which it's casted, so in certain BGs even running near it with a wall in between you, or below it, you're still snared.

I also don't know why you'd ever directly compare purge in a favorable way to ritual. Ritual heals, gives a synergy, purges yourself, gives minor mending, snares everyone around you, and purges everyone else every 20 seconds. Slotting purge over ritual would be really dumb. Sure, you could slot both, but the group utility/healing/permanently snaring your opponents means it's a requirement to have on your bar. If you're a templar without ritual on your bar, I hope you're never on my team in a BG. The ability isn't just strong, it's one of the best healing abilities in the game, the best cc in the game (by virtue of giving you the ability to constantly kite your opponents/not allow them to kite you), and provides the best synergy in the game. To me that sounds like it's doing a lot more than one ability should ever be doing, unless it's an ult, and it isn't an ult.

Reading comprehension is a Thing. First, I said that no one will stand in it for the full 24 second Duration since in most pvp situations you actually move, well Maybe you dont but About every pvper worth their salt does. Also I played magplar in high mmr bgs myself, stopped pvping this patch tho, and curiously enough I didnt say anywhere that ritual is weak, in fact I said that it is strong, but again reading what you Quote apparently isnt a Thing anymore.
I did compare it to purge because purge is the only universally available purge for non templar classes, not because purge is better on a templar compared to ritual. But there actually are situations, Pretty rare tho, where purge is better for your Group than ritual, spamming purge on breaches for example, also probably why ball Groups have purge Spammers instead of ritual Spammers by virtue of it instantly purging Group members without cooldown.
Best cc in the game? I mean really? Bombard spam, encase spam, ice Blockade spam is way more potent for kiting/stopping someone from kiting since the snare easily gets overriden by About everything else.
Again ritual is strong, and it should be like all class defining abilities, now if only I could find a reason to Slot wings over rat in a Situation thats not a 1v1 against a magsorc or magblade......

Tl Dr read what you Quote People k thx.

ImSoPro

KurtAngle2 wrote: »

- Streak (does too much)
- Onslaught and Take Flight (the damage/cost ratio is off, lower their damage or increase the ultimate costs)
- Crystal Fragments (RNG *** with *** of damage and practically no cost at all, needs a redesign)
- Subterranean Assault (Too easy to use for such a heavy hitter that is easy to land, needs a damage nerf)
- Permafrost (Damage, Tankyness for the team AND SEVENTY PERCENT SLOW? Remove one of effects)
- Vamp Drain (It literally has everything and offers too much utility, devs need to realize that it either does a *** ton of utility or it deals *** ton of damage, NOT BOTH)
- Executioner (No idea why it was buffed to 400%, it was already the second best execute in the game alongside Endless Fury)
- Elusive Mist (not applicable to every build but if used correctly it's an out of jail card with crazy damage reduction, needs a rework)

Welp we know you probably get slayed by these skills on the daily. None of them are OP rofl. And leave permafrost alone. Y’all whiners already had the stun removed. That’s enough of a nerf as is. Maybe it was kinda OP with the stun. Take something else away and it’ll be useless and northern storm would be the clear favorite there.

Zabagad

Joy_Division wrote: »

You can (eventually) dodge your way out of sweeps, but you are taking damage the entire time and what's your follow-up when you stop dodging and the templar users her charge skill and is right on you? Dodge again? Unless you're dodging through friendly players or some sort of LoS (which I'd say the defensive tactic is just that, LoS), then odds the dodge roller is just going to be right back in the same position again.

I've played Templar since Beta and in my experience unless a build has snare immunity and has some sort of speed buff, if they try to dodge roll it's pretty easy to jabs spam them. If you have those buffs, then dodging (or more accurately outmaneuvering) is perfectly viable. Without those buffs, which constitutes the majority of Cyrodiil, trying to dodge an undodgeable skill isn't optimal and the sort of thing that inexperienced players typically do. The best players I have fought on DKs, Wardens, Necros, and obviously other Templars use their own class skills to stand toe-to-toe like a heavy weight fighter. At that point it's a test of who's got the better build and who makes the better adjustment. Sorcs have 3 terrific counters in Streak, hiding in their Zoo, and Shield stacking. The only widlcard is Nightblades. The good ones I have fought had high enough weapon damage to keep me on the defensive more than I'd like, and had Fear or Shade if they got in trouble. Of course, NB requires quite a bit of skill to play and the bad ones who crutch on cloak are easy opponents. In general, I think players would be better off if they tried a more aggressive approach to anything they think is "over-performing" instead of coming onto these forums and asking for nerfs.

You are correct about the staff attacks

Ok ty again - that was to much for just an "Insightful"

I can see that my way to handle jabs is "correct" and I don't had problems with jabs in the past. I was just trying to learn and it was nice to read your input and definately helped me.
And I'm 100% with you - to much OP claims and nerf requests...

fred4

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've played Templar since Beta and in my experience unless a build has snare immunity and has some sort of speed buff, if they try to dodge roll it's pretty easy to jabs spam them. If you have those buffs, then dodging (or more accurately outmaneuvering) is perfectly viable. Without those buffs, which constitutes the majority of Cyrodiil, trying to dodge an undodgeable skill isn't optimal and the sort of thing that inexperienced players typically do. ... The only widlcard is Nightblades. The good ones I have fought had high enough weapon damage to keep me on the defensive more than I'd like, and had Fear or Shade if they got in trouble. Of course, NB requires quite a bit of skill to play and the bad ones who crutch on cloak are easy opponents. In general, I think players would be better off if they tried a more aggressive approach to anything they think is "over-performing" instead of coming onto these forums and asking for nerfs.

This sounds about right. As a melee magblade, I will say that Fear can work, but obviously only sometimes. I don't really go for it defensively, because I can't afford the loss of a GCD should it fail. I am probably not aware enough of people's CC immunity status. I play without the shade, but with Steed, full Swift and high stam regen, which I prefer, but which I also need to make the absence of the shade work. The extra speed makes dodge rolls viable, but you really do need as much speed as you can get and I have gotten conscientious of casting Healing Ward or RAT into a dodge roll, then Cloak. Really though, you're always dodging towards some LoS opportunity. You can't play nightblade well without LoS awareness.

Wish I could go toe to toe with templars. Against lower damage ones I can. It is paradoxically the ones that spec into some tankines and less damage that I am more liable to spam / burst down. The old magblade playstyle of healing while attacking works up to a point. I use Swallow Soul + Siphoning Attacks + an Infused Restore Health enchant, which can be more healing than some templars get from Sweeps and whatever HOT they have running. Still, against an experienced, high-damage, aggressive templar dueller, I will lose a straight up face off in a matter of seconds. Judging your opponent's damage is always the issue.

Bam_Bam

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Forum Warrior class has "Nerf Thread" skill...

technohic

fred4 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've played Templar since Beta and in my experience unless a build has snare immunity and has some sort of speed buff, if they try to dodge roll it's pretty easy to jabs spam them. If you have those buffs, then dodging (or more accurately outmaneuvering) is perfectly viable. Without those buffs, which constitutes the majority of Cyrodiil, trying to dodge an undodgeable skill isn't optimal and the sort of thing that inexperienced players typically do. ... The only widlcard is Nightblades. The good ones I have fought had high enough weapon damage to keep me on the defensive more than I'd like, and had Fear or Shade if they got in trouble. Of course, NB requires quite a bit of skill to play and the bad ones who crutch on cloak are easy opponents. In general, I think players would be better off if they tried a more aggressive approach to anything they think is "over-performing" instead of coming onto these forums and asking for nerfs.

This sounds about right. As a melee magblade, I will say that Fear can work, but obviously only sometimes. I don't really go for it defensively, because I can't afford the loss of a GCD should it fail. I am probably not aware enough of people's CC immunity status. I play without the shade, but with Steed, full Swift and high stam regen, which I prefer, but which I also need to make the absence of the shade work. The extra speed makes dodge rolls viable, but you really do need as much speed as you can get and I have gotten conscientious of casting Healing Ward or RAT into a dodge roll, then Cloak. Really though, you're always dodging towards some LoS opportunity. You can't play nightblade well without LoS awareness.

Wish I could go toe to toe with templars. Against lower damage ones I can. It is paradoxically the ones that spec into some tankines and less damage that I am more liable to spam / burst down. The old magblade playstyle of healing while attacking works up to a point. I use Swallow Soul + Siphoning Attacks + an Infused Restore Health enchant, which can be more healing than some templars get from Sweeps and whatever HOT they have running. Still, against an experienced, high-damage, aggressive templar dueller, I will lose a straight up face off in a matter of seconds. Judging your opponent's damage is always the issue.

As someone who plays both NB and Templar; why do you wish to go to to toe? They play very differently and I know that is really bad for my NB to try. It's a "stand your ground" class vs a class that's supposed to be elusive. The worst time I've had on a NB is trying to stay and fight a templar in a confined space on top of a gatehouse tunneling vision for a kill. Good way to get in an X video if some people join you in your potato quest (speaking from experience)

And I dont get the refusal to use shadow image. It's the best way to disengage even with speed as the people attacking you can be just as fast. Its debuff also helps level the playing field if you do go toe to toe although I do think its clunky to try to use while fighting and admittedly just wait until I'm on the run. It would be like me not using ER on my templar because my DK and Warden just heal through negative effects just fine. Those 2 have major mending. Templar in stead purges and will have the HOT and minor mending but only so long as they stay in that AOE which as large as it is, templar on the move will be out of it in less than a tuck of 2 seconds. Another reason to not stand your ground fighting 1.

I also think its something the devs started that's dangerous in looking at skills individually with some arbitrary budget. It ignores the big picture on where classes are as a whole and ruins gameplay even if consistent; and clearly they are not. It has basically taken magplar from near the bottom to one of the most powerful without much changing. They kind of have a defense now in eclipse which has been nerfed already. Made POTL crit but it used to copy all friendly damage. Javelin for whatever reason, got ignores resist to compensate making it fall in line with no long range stuns, defeating the purpose of what it was good for in helping to catch up and preempt a gap closer so you dont get stunned mid close. Heading down a homogenized path with everyone screaming "it's not fair!" on abilities regardless of why and how the class performs.

Iskiab

fred4 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've played Templar since Beta and in my experience unless a build has snare immunity and has some sort of speed buff, if they try to dodge roll it's pretty easy to jabs spam them. If you have those buffs, then dodging (or more accurately outmaneuvering) is perfectly viable. Without those buffs, which constitutes the majority of Cyrodiil, trying to dodge an undodgeable skill isn't optimal and the sort of thing that inexperienced players typically do. ... The only widlcard is Nightblades. The good ones I have fought had high enough weapon damage to keep me on the defensive more than I'd like, and had Fear or Shade if they got in trouble. Of course, NB requires quite a bit of skill to play and the bad ones who crutch on cloak are easy opponents. In general, I think players would be better off if they tried a more aggressive approach to anything they think is "over-performing" instead of coming onto these forums and asking for nerfs.

This sounds about right. As a melee magblade, I will say that Fear can work, but obviously only sometimes. I don't really go for it defensively, because I can't afford the loss of a GCD should it fail. I am probably not aware enough of people's CC immunity status. I play without the shade, but with Steed, full Swift and high stam regen, which I prefer, but which I also need to make the absence of the shade work. The extra speed makes dodge rolls viable, but you really do need as much speed as you can get and I have gotten conscientious of casting Healing Ward or RAT into a dodge roll, then Cloak. Really though, you're always dodging towards some LoS opportunity. You can't play nightblade well without LoS awareness.

Wish I could go toe to toe with templars. Against lower damage ones I can. It is paradoxically the ones that spec into some tankines and less damage that I am more liable to spam / burst down. The old magblade playstyle of healing while attacking works up to a point. I use Swallow Soul + Siphoning Attacks + an Infused Restore Health enchant, which can be more healing than some templars get from Sweeps and whatever HOT they have running. Still, against an experienced, high-damage, aggressive templar dueller, I will lose a straight up face off in a matter of seconds. Judging your opponent's damage is always the issue.

You’re doing it right. Your spec doesn’t matter as a magblade, going toe to toe is a death sentence.

Fear is unreliable because of cc immunity. Shade works if you’ve set it up well. Mist works best.

As a magblade no matter what you do the Templar will be outdamaging you and outhealing you at the same time. You need to keep your distance.

fred4

@technohic: I'm not here to debate Shadow Image or the merits of my playstyle. I'm quite happy with my magblade, however a well-played, aggressive templar (as any dueller should be) is a bad matchup for me. When I talked about squaring off, that was mainly to illustrate how short the attack window for magblade can be. The other consideration is that, when Siphoning Attacks is one of your heals, staying on the attack is an option you have to weigh up.

technohic

fred4 wrote: »

@technohic: I'm not here to debate Shadow Image or the merits of my playstyle. I'm quite happy with my magblade, however a well-played, aggressive templar (as any dueller should be) is a bad matchup for me. When I talked about squaring off, that was mainly to illustrate how short the attack window for magblade can be. The other consideration is that, when Siphoning Attacks is one of your heals, staying on the attack is an option you have to weigh up.

Magblade IMO has been in dire straits ever since the patch where they increased cost and decreased healing due to them toping PVE content with DPS and off heals as isnt that the same time they nerfed cripple? I'd argue it was pretty niche in PVP before that, but wanting any class to be brought down to that level is going to be met with a lot of anger. Especially if you play it like a sorc with invisibility pots and no execute combo.

Iskiab

One thing to consider in the argument about evading jabs/sweeps. I typically save my ultimate as a templar against a NB because they go down so fast.

Some NBs might have distorted views of how to evade it because of it. If I ever do die to a NB, and it happens, I don’t make the same mistake twice and even the best ones I’ve seen go down in 3 GCDs.

Edit.. maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but 5 tops. There’s only ever been one that’s given me an issue, and they were a dark cloak magblade using engine guardian.

Joy_Division

technohic wrote: »

I also think its something the devs started that's dangerous in looking at skills individually with some arbitrary budget. It ignores the big picture on where classes are as a whole and ruins gameplay even if consistent; and clearly they are not. It has basically taken magplar from near the bottom to one of the most powerful without much changing. They kind of have a defense now in eclipse which has been nerfed already. Made POTL crit but it used to copy all friendly damage. Javelin for whatever reason, got ignores resist to compensate making it fall in line with no long range stuns, defeating the purpose of what it was good for in helping to catch up and preempt a gap closer so you dont get stunned mid close. Heading down a homogenized path with everyone screaming "it's not fair!" on abilities regardless of why and how the class performs.

Pretty much. Since 2013, Jabs has pretty much worked the same way and was arguably stronger back in the day (heals double dipped, could stun-lock - not just stun) but now all of a sudden people are complaining about it. What the devs have done by homogenizing things is given two things Templars lacked that made them annoying to play, a defense that is preventative (new Eclipse) and a strong HoT (new Ritual). With these two skills, the biggest weakness a the old templars had, having to stop attacking and going into heal mode, is much reduced.

It's clear from the dev article ZOS put out a few months ago that it considers class identity to constitute fancy graphics, fluff text, and simply being a skill from your class tree on your bar. They most certainly are not looking at a class as a whole, or they never would have been so hyped trying to sell us on the DK Stonefist change.

Maxdevil

Leap is just stupidly strong and in half case it’s dead for vampire and Incapacitating Strike

Maxdevil

Maxdevil wrote: »

Leap is just stupidly strong and in half case it’s dead for vampire with fire dk and Incapacitating Strike

Iskiab

Maxdevil wrote: »

Leap is just stupidly strong and in half case it’s dead for vampire and Incapacitating Strike

Nah, that’s not true. I’m somewhat glassy as a magtemplar and can survive a leap. Oddly enough what smokes me every time is meteor since it’s flame damage. I’ve been caught being predictable more than once and people meteored and bursted me as I was travelling in a toppling charge.

ecru

It's pretty easy to block most leaps if you're paying attention, and if you're fighting a DK, you should anticipate it at some point. Some will catch you by surprise and are unavoidable but if anyone is leaping in from range you should have plenty of time to hit that block button. The real power of leap is it's value as an "oh ***" button, not necessarily it's damage.

jcm2606

Maxdevil wrote: »

Leap is just stupidly strong and in half case it’s dead for vampire and Incapacitating Strike

And is the only thing that hits for half a *** in a DK's kit, so if you want leap nerfed, give DK something else it can use.

Rianai

3-stacks Molten Whip is one of the hardest hitting skills in the game.

(no, this is not a nerf request)

exeeter702

At this point in time I'm thoroughly convinced a strong skill will only ever be allowed by this games community if before using it you have to do a 3 second tetris, complete of a level of silver surfer on the nes, fully parry chun's super and deliver an accurate $1000 question to alex trebek.

At some point in time this games player base adopted some mentality that everything combat related needs to make the sweatiest of esports salaried players blush. This is a *** mmorpg, it can have strong abilities that do not require 4 or 5 degrees of interaction to make applicable use. It's an mmo with reticle targeting instead of tab targeting and where you have to click the mouse every second for your white attacks. There is nothing about this game that is pure abject hyper competitive. *** plays out on the screen and you respond accordingly, there is only disillusion that everything needs to have "skill" to use. This isnt that game and it has never been, not in the way the majority of this forum would like to believe. There is a very real skill ceiling but it is being drowned out by hyperbole, sensationalism, entitlement and just pure and simple ignorance.

I've seen this from the very start of this games lifespan.. the lot of you have recieved the game you have asked for in its current state. This is where you are at now. Having aneurisms if even a single ounce of damage comes out without the player pressing a button for it, if an expensive (which equates to a long cd in design terms) packs a punch without needing to be massively set up, if a build can actually function via damage over time components exclusively, the list goes on really.

Enjoy the game you currently have, its what you asked for. I for one am glad I've taken a break for a few months now, not because the state of this casual mmorpg's balance, but because of the insufferable talking points Ive seen on a daily basis by people who fancy themselves world class players and 30 year veteran game designers, well that and the borked queuing.

RighteousBacon

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Here’s my list.
This is based from my opinion as a stamblade main.

1. Jabs/sweeps. This skill. Ok it does as much damage as blastbones (with 1 burning light), snares, deals aoe, and is hard to dodge. About that last one, with a roll you will dodge maybe the 1st 1 or 2 jabs but the others will hit. And it snares. Unless I have a shade up it’s a death sentence. Compare that to surprise attack: deals damage and has a small debuff. It’s so overloaded.

2. Vamp drain. This has only come on the radar this patch and here’s why I hate it.
It’s long range(ish)
It has a 12m range.
Now compare to other undodgable ccs.
Mass hysteria: 6m range
Turn evil: 5m range
See the difference?

3. Streak. Instant getaway, stuns, no real counter. Worst when a sorc streaks halfway across the map, recovers, and returns. And unlike cloak, which is counterd with numerous skills and a potion, it has no easy counter

Ok there they are.
Feel free to comment and add/argue. always fun to read.

1. Try rolling or even walking, through your opponent using jabs.

2. I don’t really care much about this skill. Mag toons need a reliable cc though

3. There is a specific cp skill directed specifically against sorcs called shattering blows. Because of this I think streak is ok

phoenixkungfu

Everything list plus gap closer that stun and templar class. Templar class as a whole needs a massive nerf

Xvorg

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

Everything list plus gap closer that stun and templar class. Templar class as a whole needs a massive nerf

No, your fingers need a massive buff

Vyvrhel

Hey. You said this was your last "nerf templar" post:

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

So. Here’s why there op. And everything this time not just jabs.

1. Jabs.
2. A gap closer that stuns.
3. Extended ritual
4. BURNING LIGHT
5. Snares

So. Explanation.
1. The damage is huge. (A result of a few thing I now realise, 1. Direct damage scaling as of dragonhold 2. Channel time reduced in elsweyr 3. People building higher damage in this patch) And has so many additional effects. But, mostly because of no. 4
2. Imagine if ambush stunned. Or crit rush.
3. The healing is that of healing springs, is a huge area, stacks, and purges 5. 5 effects from you.
4. This takes jabs to a whole new level. Jabs on its own is a little annoying, but with burning light...
5. and if that wasn’t enough, a massive 30% snare on everyone, and a 40% on jabs.

This will be my last nerf Templar thread this patch. I have nothing else to say.

Digiman

@ThePhantomThorn
LOL streak is fine, you can't spam it as much and as long as you circle around the sorcerers instead of lining up after chasing him like lemmings he would of wasted it. There is a reason why most sorcerers use streak and its to draw you lot into a LoS area to pick you off.

What gets me is ball of light, that defensive spell pales in comparison to a mere streak. Either way nerf threads are stupid, wish the halfwits would actually put buff threads instead. More positive.