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Exclude DLC Dungeons from random search.
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You should appreciate the fact you have access to DLC dungeons and pitty the fools that have to play vanilla ones. DLC dungeons are one of the best parts of this game with most interesting scenery, mechanics and basically everything that's interesting about PVE. Grinding vanilla dungeons is mind numbingly boring because pretty much every fight is a dude with a sword that does heavy attack every 20 seconds.
If you want to do random dungeon for exp you can do it on normal and you'll get your exp easily enough even if it's DLC dungeon. If you wanna pug vet DLC dungeons you might sometimes get people who aren't good enough for that and that's OK. If they weren't challenging at all then why would anyone play them.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.The Moot Councillor2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CaptainVenom wrote: »I agree. If I'm queuing for a random normal dungeon, it means I want some easy exp.
And sometimes you'll get it, and sometimes you won't.The Moot Councillor0 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
This is true, but if there was a seperate queue for random DLC dungeons with better (maybe gold) rewards, this wouldn't be an issue. You'd still get people filling those groups, and they would actually want to be there because they specifically chose to queue.This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Another annoying part of throwing randoms who don't want DLC dungeons into DLC dungeons is the GF makes me replace a tank that bailed on an incompetent group. If they are past first boss in pledge, I will just leave. I'm not doing a DLC pledge that I queued for with no chance at getting credit for pledge. If they are before first boss, do I stick with a group where the tank bailed because they couldn't clear first boss? If they say they kicked a fake tank, fine. But if they seem to be struggling on first boss, I will reevaluate after 5 minutes. Let those people filter out DLC so I am less likely to waste 20 minutes in their futility when they didn't even really want to be there in the first place.
Aren't all the DLC pledges with the exception of WGT and ICP just kill the last boss?Or how about when I queue for a DLC dungeon for the pledge and the 3 randos decide they want to do FG instead? I can't boot them. Yet I have no reason to clear FG since I'm not there for the daily random.
I thought that was not possible anymore?
The problem with your response is that you don't seem to care about making the group finder lead to better results for everyone. Not as bad as the replies that say "no one should use the group finder," but still not helpful.
The problem is that the people who want easy XP will only queue for non-DLC dungeons if the rewards between both are the same.
So I say that they should give a toggle that exclude DLC that lowers the reward tier of that queue to the blue tier rewards.
The normal rewards of XP and mats/gear are adequate for running a DLC dungeon (which should take 30-45 minutes depending on dungeon).
Also note that WGT and ICP are now part of the base game, so even people without ESO+ will get those. I'm betting pretty soon Shadows of the Hist and maybe Horns of the Reach will also be part of the base game, and that will solve the distinction between ESO+ and free players.
The Moot Councillor0 -
LucyferLightbringer✭✭✭✭✭CaptainVenom wrote: »I agree. If I'm queuing for a random normal dungeon, it means I want some easy exp.
And sometimes you'll get it, and sometimes you won't.
Unless you are not subscriber then you will get easy xp every single time as you have no risk of geting dlc dungeon. That is the problem for me. If i get the same reward as people with no access to dlc i want exactly the same risk. I refuse to work harder for same reward period. Want me to run dlc dungeons? Gladly, give me separate queue for them with separate reward that makes it worth it and i guarantee i will run it daily along with my normal random dungeon.4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LucyferLightbringer wrote: »CaptainVenom wrote: »I agree. If I'm queuing for a random normal dungeon, it means I want some easy exp.
And sometimes you'll get it, and sometimes you won't.
Unless you are not subscriber then you will get easy xp every single time as you have no risk of geting dlc dungeon. That is the problem for me. If i get the same reward as people with no access to dlc i want exactly the same risk. I refuse to work harder for same reward period. Want me to run dlc dungeons? Gladly, give me separate queue for them with separate reward that makes it worth it and i guarantee i will run it daily along with my normal random dungeon.
There is zero need for a separate queue. None.
Just have an opt in and that opt in would increase the level of the reward by one level. Instead of getting the Epic reward one would get the Legendary reward. Those that have limited access to DLCs would find their reward scaled based on their access.
It is a simple and straight forward solution that allows players to avoid the DLC dungeons while also incentivizing doing those same dungeons. Win/win scenario.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LucyferLightbringer wrote: »CaptainVenom wrote: »I agree. If I'm queuing for a random normal dungeon, it means I want some easy exp.
And sometimes you'll get it, and sometimes you won't.
Unless you are not subscriber then you will get easy xp every single time as you have no risk of geting dlc dungeon. That is the problem for me. If i get the same reward as people with no access to dlc i want exactly the same risk. I refuse to work harder for same reward period. Want me to run dlc dungeons? Gladly, give me separate queue for them with separate reward that makes it worth it and i guarantee i will run it daily along with my normal random dungeon.
So ICP and WGT are not part of the base game?
Again, the current reward is way too high for the likes of Spindleclutch, but is adequate for the later regular dungeons/DLC dungeons, so my recommendation is Purple reward with risk of DLC, blue reward without it (and that includes free players)The Moot Councillor0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.
There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:
1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.
2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.
3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.
So, that is why we get these whine threads.
But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.
Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.
The problem with those arguments is that the Random Dungeon option (and the rewards) are there to help people who want to complete a specific dungeon do so.
Sometimes that's a new player trying their first dungeon and you end up in Spindleclutch. Sometimes it's someone looking for BSW and you end up in City of Ash. And sometimes it's someone who wants to farm gear/motifs/achievements in DLC dungeons and that's where you end up.
Why are the people who want to run DLC dungeons not deserving of help?
First, it’s no help to anyone to stuff players who aren’t experienced enough for DLC dungeons into DLC dungeons. You only have to read some of the posts here to get an inkling of the abuse they will be given. It helps no one if players are constantly forced in only to leave as soon as the load screen has finished, happy to take a 15 minute penalty because ZOS has shafted them.
Second, the whole point of this thread is that ZOS should not use their subscribers as a free pool to backfill the DLC content. They should only do this if they give their subscribers the choice of whether they want the same options as non-subscribers (ie no DLC content) or an option of including the DLC content as well. ZOS clearly don’t care and would rather have a larger pool of players to draw on irrespective of those players’ wishes or abilities.
If I’m going to be used to help someone play a dungeon, I’d rather it was one I could actually help in and given I’m way more aware of my abilities than ZOS, it makes sense that I should get to choose, not them.4 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.
What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.
And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.3 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.
What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.
And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.
I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.
And I say this as a subscriber.
I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.
And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.The Moot Councillor0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I skipped part of the thread so may be repeating but you can always go to one of the start zones and ask in chat for a low level player to do a random normal with. Let them know you will wait while they do quest and it usually doesn't take long at all to get a response. Then you can either fill the rest of your group using group finder or just load up in zone. A lot of players complain that they get in random groups and don't have time to listen to dialog. Queue with those players they get the story you get the easy dungeon everybody is happy.
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
So remove the random dungeon feature from the group finder? Since "backfilling" the sole purpose for that?
The Moot Councillor1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
So remove the random dungeon feature from the group finder? Since "backfilling" the sole purpose for that?
Its sole purpose is not to backfill DLC dungeons, its purpose is to find groups for any dungeon on the list. Removing DLC does not remove the random aspect, just narrows it down to what customers actually WANT to play0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s been mentioned in the thread a couple times already, but you can’t split the queue ... because it would increase the wait times on both sides of the queue itself (both non-DLC dungeons and DLC dungeons).
I don’t want increased wait times ... when players can be smarter about finding a pre-made group or manually queue for all DLC or all non-DLC dungeons.
0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
So remove the random dungeon feature from the group finder? Since "backfilling" the sole purpose for that?
Its sole purpose is not to backfill DLC dungeons, its purpose is to find groups for any dungeon on the list. Removing DLC does not remove the random aspect, just narrows it down to what customers actually WANT to play
You can find groups for any dungeon on the list (which you can even adjust to your preferences!) through "Specific Dungeon".
But you want that juicy extra XP, don't you?
The extra reward for doing a "Random Dungeon" is directly related to the fact that you are acting as a backfill for those in "Specific Dungeon" queue. If you want less random (no-DLC) you get a smaller reward, more random (with DLC) means a bigger reward. That's a fair system.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
You are correct that content should be fun to complete and it is. Especially for player who take the time to learn the content and even more so for those who take the time to form their own group. If you are not enjoying doing dungeons either you are doing it with the wrong people or dungeons are not your cup of tea. But that is irrelevant and as it is not Germain to the thread.
My suggestion is a win/win for everyone and much more likely than what most here have suggested.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »It’s been mentioned in the thread a couple times already, but you can’t split the queue ... because it would increase the wait times on both sides of the queue itself (both non-DLC dungeons and DLC dungeons).
I don’t want increased wait times ... when players can be smarter about finding a pre-made group or manually queue for all DLC or all non-DLC dungeons.
That is why I suggest an DLC opt in toggle that offers a greater incentive for those who permit DLCs to be part of what they might get in a random. A gold reward that not only offers gold weapon or jewelry to decon but also a gold upgrade matt that could be jewelry related. Ofc it would scale based on how many DLC dungeons ones has access to.
It should be pretty obvious Zos is not going to just remove the DLC dungeon from the random and just ignore them. There is a strong business justification for them to be part of Zos to incentivize players to do them as a random.
My suggestion is a win/win for all as it permits those who cannot or do not want to handle the DLC dungeons an option while still including the DLC dungeons in the random.0 -
IndianaJames7✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
This. Removing dlcs from random queue would make it very difficult for many people to group for these dungeons. The purpose of dungeon finder is to make it easy for people to group for content, not to give people signing up for a random a guaranteed easy pass.1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
So remove the random dungeon feature from the group finder? Since "backfilling" the sole purpose for that?
Its sole purpose is not to backfill DLC dungeons, its purpose is to find groups for any dungeon on the list. Removing DLC does not remove the random aspect, just narrows it down to what customers actually WANT to play
You can find groups for any dungeon on the list (which you can even adjust to your preferences!) through "Specific Dungeon".
But you want that juicy extra XP, don't you?
The extra reward for doing a "Random Dungeon" is directly related to the fact that you are acting as a backfill for those in "Specific Dungeon" queue. If you want less random (no-DLC) you get a smaller reward, more random (with DLC) means a bigger reward. That's a fair system.
So should non-subscribers automatically get the lesser reward for queuing then? Seeing as how they cant be used to backfill DLC content?0 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
You’re right about the backfilling of members being negatively impacted by any change that would remove DLC dungeons as an option. At the same time, I suspect the number of groups needing a replacement member in a DLC dungeon would be greatly reduced if this change were in place. The players dropping or getting kicked most often wouldn’t choose the DLC toggle, and wouldn’t end up there, and so wouldn’t need to be back filled.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche2 -
Tsar_Gekkou✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the best suggestion would be for Zos to remove the 15-minute requeue timer. That way, people who like dlc dungeons can stay, and those who don't won't have waste 15 minutes after leaving or ask the group to kick them and then afk in hopes that they do.Xbox NA healer main
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+3 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA HM | vRG HM |
Flawless Conqueror | Spirit Slayer | Dro-mA'thra Destroyer | Tick-Tock-Tormentor | Immortal Redeemer | Gryphon Heart | Godslayer | Dawnbringer | Planesbreaker |1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
So remove the random dungeon feature from the group finder? Since "backfilling" the sole purpose for that?
Its sole purpose is not to backfill DLC dungeons, its purpose is to find groups for any dungeon on the list. Removing DLC does not remove the random aspect, just narrows it down to what customers actually WANT to play
You can find groups for any dungeon on the list (which you can even adjust to your preferences!) through "Specific Dungeon".
But you want that juicy extra XP, don't you?
The extra reward for doing a "Random Dungeon" is directly related to the fact that you are acting as a backfill for those in "Specific Dungeon" queue. If you want less random (no-DLC) you get a smaller reward, more random (with DLC) means a bigger reward. That's a fair system.
So should non-subscribers automatically get the lesser reward for queuing then? Seeing as how they cant be used to backfill DLC content?
Sure, why not? You can even mirror the queue tiers as pledge tiers. Basic reward for Maj's dungeons, medium for Glirion's (+ everything before) and biggest for Urgalag's (and everything before).0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »MehrunesFlagon wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.
It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.
There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.
Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.
I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.
It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.
I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.
And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.
As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.
That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.
Exactly and a very good point.
Also why I suggested an opt in for the DLC dungeons that provided a superior reward to what one would get if they did not opt into the DLC dungeons. Gold or legendary reward if you will and it would scale based on the DLC access one has.
Players should get the better reward for actually completing the DLC dungeon, not just letting it stay on the random list. This effectively wont change anything, everyone will still just keep the DLCs on the list and bail if they get one (like I already do). I’m all for increased rewards if you actually complete a DLC dungeon, but not just for having access to it.
The incentive should be that they are FUN to complete and offer great gear/motifs/cosmetics.
As for “backfilling” well, let those who want to run the DLC for a particular reason form their own groups with other like-minded players (zone/guild chat).
So remove the random dungeon feature from the group finder? Since "backfilling" the sole purpose for that?
Its sole purpose is not to backfill DLC dungeons, its purpose is to find groups for any dungeon on the list. Removing DLC does not remove the random aspect, just narrows it down to what customers actually WANT to play
You can find groups for any dungeon on the list (which you can even adjust to your preferences!) through "Specific Dungeon".
But you want that juicy extra XP, don't you?
The extra reward for doing a "Random Dungeon" is directly related to the fact that you are acting as a backfill for those in "Specific Dungeon" queue. If you want less random (no-DLC) you get a smaller reward, more random (with DLC) means a bigger reward. That's a fair system.
So should non-subscribers automatically get the lesser reward for queuing then? Seeing as how they cant be used to backfill DLC content?
Aren't ICP and WGT part of the base game now? I'm sure the others are going to follow in time.
But yes, I'm all for, if there is a split in the queue, that people who don't have access to DLCs get the lesser reward.The Moot Councillor0 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Maybe he just doesn't like DLC dungeons with inane mechanics?
And having a look at the number of posts where so many of you are concerned with "well, mustn't reward these people", I'm ashamed at the pettiness. Are you concerned with filling dungeons, or simply that someone may get the same reward as someone without ESO+ who q's for random dungeon. You'll say the former, but evidence points to the latter.
Edited by Mr_Walker on December 17, 2019 1:18AM1 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.
There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:
1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.
2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.
3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.
So, that is why we get these whine threads.
But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.
Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.
The problem with those arguments is that the Random Dungeon option (and the rewards) are there to help people who want to complete a specific dungeon do so.
Sometimes that's a new player trying their first dungeon and you end up in Spindleclutch. Sometimes it's someone looking for BSW and you end up in City of Ash. And sometimes it's someone who wants to farm gear/motifs/achievements in DLC dungeons and that's where you end up.
Why are the people who want to run DLC dungeons not deserving of help?
Is it of much help when they immediately leave the group?Perhaps if they were separated we would a better chance of getting somebody capable in t he first place.2
