Exclude DLC Dungeons from random search.

idk

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

1. Not a very strong argument. If anything it suggests a better rewards should be granted to those who have access to who have access to DLC dungeons.

I have suggested multiple times, including in this thread, a toggle. Those who opt into DLC dungeons get a better reward based on their access to DLC dungeons. Maybe a gold reward including a change for gold upgrade matts (think chance for gold jewelry upgrade matts.).

2. Yes, they may pay for ESO+ but this is not about customer service. It is merely griping because of not heeding the first two points To2C made.

3. Wrong. Finding a premade group is usually an easy option and is available most of the time. It is an excuse to suggest otherwise. When this game lauched the GF was an utter joke. If two DDs queued for available for the dame dungeon the GF would put them together in a group even though no tank or healer were available.

We formed groups from guild and Zone to do dungeons. If players choose to not be bothered with forming or finding a group that is their problem.

SirLeeMinion

I agree, OP. But since ZOS won't do it, I don't sub, and I don't buy the DLC dungeons. This year, they linked some of the overland DLC completion to the dungeon DLC, so I haven't bought that either. I have multiple accounts and follow this for all of them. I miss the craft bag, but avoiding random DLC dungeons makes up for it.

Tsar_Gekkou

It's funny how people who pay for ESO+ are punished with dlc dungeons in random queues but free players aren't.

Grianasteri

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

I am very hesitant about anything that splits player base, however I would tend to agree with this point.

It has happened to me plenty of times, people simply leaving a DLC dungeon or not being good enough to complete... or more simply, just not wanting to spend the extended time required to invest in a DLC dungeon run - many folks have better things to do than sit for an hour in a dungeon.

FierceSam

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

This plus a billion.

I like the DLC dungeons and I like ESO enough to (foolish me) think I should support it by having ESO+. But it’s beyond f-ing rude for ZOS to treat subscribers like cannon fodder they can just throw into DLC dungeons simply because there isn’t enough ‘real’ demand.

It benefits no one that ESO+ members can’t decide for themselves whether they wish to have the DLC included in their random queue or whether they want the same choices as non-subscribers.

It doesn’t benefit ESO+ members who aren’t ready for the DLC dungeons
It doesn’t help those who want to do those dungeons

One solution to compensate for this and encourage more players to do DLC dungeons might be to make the pledge reward for the DLC dungeon provide substantially more keys or transmute stones.

FierceSam

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

FierceSam

lagrue wrote: »

I wouldn't say outright remove them - but there should be a minimum required level before they start rotating in.

They should always be available manually - but if we're talking Random Dungeons, then DLC shouldn't show up until the player is CP160... and in Veteran Random Dungeons they shouldn't show up until atleast CP300.

Except CP is no indication of competence.

I did my first dungeon (not vet dungeon or DLC dungeon but ordinary normal dungeon) when I was CP 460... at that point I had never seen the back of a boss, let alone thought that’s where I should stand.. you wouldn’t have wanted me anywhere near a DLC dungeon....

But the fundamental issue here is that ESO+ players should have the choice of whether to include DLC dungeons in their random normals or not rather than have the DLC dungeons forced on them.

idk

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

It benefits no one that ESO+ members can’t decide for themselves whether they wish to have the DLC included in their random queue or whether they want the same choices as non-subscribers.

I find it odd when someone makes a statement like this yet ignores the very post that provides a solution that allows players to choose and rewards those that take the extra risk and of course have access to take that extra risk.

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

One solution to compensate for this and encourage more players to do DLC dungeons might be to make the pledge reward for the DLC dungeon provide substantially more keys or transmute stones.

Yes you say this but this is irrelevant to the GF. The idea of the random dungeon reward is encourage it's use. It helps create groups when someone queues with less than a full group or solo and especially when they queue for a specific dungeon including DLCs.

So if we are to reduce the benefit of doing a random dungeon then we need to reduce or eliminate the reward. It makes no sense to reduce that overall benefit to the game and not reduce the reward.

Or go with something like what I suggested in Post #7. That is the idea you are probably really looking for. Offer the toggle (choice) and incentive including the DLCs with a gold level reward.

@FierceSam So do you agree or just want less risk and the same reward?

Bobby_V_Rockit

idk wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

It benefits no one that ESO+ members can’t decide for themselves whether they wish to have the DLC included in their random queue or whether they want the same choices as non-subscribers.

I find it odd when someone makes a statement like this yet ignores the very post that provides a solution that allows players to choose and rewards those that take the extra risk and of course have access to take that extra risk.

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

One solution to compensate for this and encourage more players to do DLC dungeons might be to make the pledge reward for the DLC dungeon provide substantially more keys or transmute stones.

Yes you say this but this is irrelevant to the GF. The idea of the random dungeon reward is encourage it's use. It helps create groups when someone queues with less than a full group or solo and especially when they queue for a specific dungeon including DLCs.

So if we are to reduce the benefit of doing a random dungeon then we need to reduce or eliminate the reward. It makes no sense to reduce that overall benefit to the game and not reduce the reward.

Or go with something like what I suggested in Post #7. That is the idea you are probably really looking for. Offer the toggle (choice) and incentive including the DLCs with a gold level reward.

@FierceSam So do you agree or just want less risk and the same reward?

Why then do the ESO+ subscribers have to reduce their reward compared to the free players then? THAT’S the point. Its not about risk/reward, its about fairness and wanting the same thing that other players who also don’t have access to DLC dungeons get for the same thing. Random should not include DLC, that should be a seperate list of its own and grant higher rewards.

Just to be clear, we only want the risk to be the same as everyone else who chose not to buy the dlc dungeon packs. Otherwise, well, I’m sure the other group members actually wanting to do them can form their own groups from a guild or zone chat. Just like we keep getting told to do.

FierceSam

idk wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

It benefits no one that ESO+ members can’t decide for themselves whether they wish to have the DLC included in their random queue or whether they want the same choices as non-subscribers.

I find it odd when someone makes a statement like this yet ignores the very post that provides a solution that allows players to choose and rewards those that take the extra risk and of course have access to take that extra risk.

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

One solution to compensate for this and encourage more players to do DLC dungeons might be to make the pledge reward for the DLC dungeon provide substantially more keys or transmute stones.

Yes you say this but this is irrelevant to the GF. The idea of the random dungeon reward is encourage it's use. It helps create groups when someone queues with less than a full group or solo and especially when they queue for a specific dungeon including DLCs.

So if we are to reduce the benefit of doing a random dungeon then we need to reduce or eliminate the reward. It makes no sense to reduce that overall benefit to the game and not reduce the reward.

Or go with something like what I suggested in Post #7. That is the idea you are probably really looking for. Offer the toggle (choice) and incentive including the DLCs with a gold level reward.

@FierceSam So do you agree or just want less risk and the same reward?

Hey idk and thanks for asking. Because that’s really what I’d like ZOS to do.

As an ESO+ subscriber I’d want the same risk (no DLC dungeons in my random daily) as a non-subscribing, free player. And I’d want the same reward. Because that’s just fair.

As an ESO+ subscriber, I would then like an option to also include the DLC dungeons, or maybe a second one to just include the DLC dungeons. That way it’s my choice.

There’s a whole separate conversation about how players are encouraged to do DLC content so players who do can find/fill groups relatively easily. But I’d argue that everyone would be happier if the players being used to fill those DLC dungeon groups actually wanted to be there. Who knows, you might get fewer people leaving the groups instantly or being unequipped to complete them.

CaptainVenom

I agree. If I'm queuing for a random normal dungeon, it means I want some easy exp.

WilliamESO

Diminish wrote: »

. It is called a random daily for a reason. Normal random dailies are not difficult; even the DLC dungeons. If you are getting groups of people who queue as the wrong roll then that is not an issue with random dailies...

You can always form a group and queue for a random daily. I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

idk

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

idk wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

It benefits no one that ESO+ members can’t decide for themselves whether they wish to have the DLC included in their random queue or whether they want the same choices as non-subscribers.

I find it odd when someone makes a statement like this yet ignores the very post that provides a solution that allows players to choose and rewards those that take the extra risk and of course have access to take that extra risk.

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

One solution to compensate for this and encourage more players to do DLC dungeons might be to make the pledge reward for the DLC dungeon provide substantially more keys or transmute stones.

Yes you say this but this is irrelevant to the GF. The idea of the random dungeon reward is encourage it's use. It helps create groups when someone queues with less than a full group or solo and especially when they queue for a specific dungeon including DLCs.

So if we are to reduce the benefit of doing a random dungeon then we need to reduce or eliminate the reward. It makes no sense to reduce that overall benefit to the game and not reduce the reward.

Or go with something like what I suggested in Post #7. That is the idea you are probably really looking for. Offer the toggle (choice) and incentive including the DLCs with a gold level reward.

So do you agree or just want less risk and the same reward?

Why then do the ESO+ subscribers have to reduce their reward compared to the free players then? THAT’S the point. Its not about risk/reward, its about fairness and wanting the same thing that other players who also don’t have access to DLC dungeons get for the same thing. Random should not include DLC, that should be a seperate list of its own and grant higher rewards.

Just to be clear, we only want the risk to be the same as everyone else who chose not to buy the dlc dungeon packs. Otherwise, well, I’m sure the other group members actually wanting to do them can form their own groups from a guild or zone chat. Just like we keep getting told to do.

First of all there are no free players in ESO outside of the very brief and rare trial periods. I do not think those speaking in this thread are as concerned about them as you are.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6504069/#Comment_6504069

Second, I have am not suggesting players who get a reduced rewards. I added a link to my suggested so you can easily find it to read. I very specifically suggested that those who opt out of DLC dungeons still get the same reward we get now.

As for those take the extra risk by opting into DLC dungeons my suggestion is they get a new tier of reward. Just as the random dungeon is deigned to incentivize using the GF so does this extra reward for including the DLCs in that random encourage using the GF for DLCs. An extremely sound business move for Zos is to keep an incentive with DLC dungeons.

You suggest this is not about Risk vs Reward but the fact is this thread is all about that. It is about reducing the risk and keeping the reward, plain and simple. I merely offered a much more likely suggestion if Zos were to do anything other than scrap the reward all together.

idk

FierceSam wrote: »

idk wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

It benefits no one that ESO+ members can’t decide for themselves whether they wish to have the DLC included in their random queue or whether they want the same choices as non-subscribers.

I find it odd when someone makes a statement like this yet ignores the very post that provides a solution that allows players to choose and rewards those that take the extra risk and of course have access to take that extra risk.

FierceSam wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

One solution to compensate for this and encourage more players to do DLC dungeons might be to make the pledge reward for the DLC dungeon provide substantially more keys or transmute stones.

Yes you say this but this is irrelevant to the GF. The idea of the random dungeon reward is encourage it's use. It helps create groups when someone queues with less than a full group or solo and especially when they queue for a specific dungeon including DLCs.

So if we are to reduce the benefit of doing a random dungeon then we need to reduce or eliminate the reward. It makes no sense to reduce that overall benefit to the game and not reduce the reward.

Or go with something like what I suggested in Post #7. That is the idea you are probably really looking for. Offer the toggle (choice) and incentive including the DLCs with a gold level reward.

@FierceSam So do you agree or just want less risk and the same reward?

Hey idk and thanks for asking. Because that’s really what I’d like ZOS to do.

As an ESO+ subscriber I’d want the same risk (no DLC dungeons in my random daily) as a non-subscribing, free player. And I’d want the same reward. Because that’s just fair.

As an ESO+ subscriber, I would then like an option to also include the DLC dungeons, or maybe a second one to just include the DLC dungeons. That way it’s my choice.

There’s a whole separate conversation about how players are encouraged to do DLC content so players who do can find/fill groups relatively easily. But I’d argue that everyone would be happier if the players being used to fill those DLC dungeon groups actually wanted to be there. Who knows, you might get fewer people leaving the groups instantly or being unequipped to complete them.

Exactly. Opt out and get the same reward as one that does not have access to the DLC dungeons via sub or purchase of the related DLCs and offer the added incentive for those with access to include the DLCs.

It is a win/win for everyone.

illusiouk

I will always agree when someone brings this topic up. I swear its like someone died in the group when a DLC dungeon pops from a random queue.

Frozen_Heart246

No one play them anymore. It's impossible to find party even as Tank by groupfinder (EU PC) just to do a veteran Depth of Malatar or Dragonhold dungeons.

Zos should look at reward that vDLC dungeons should gives.

MattT1988

Just have two queues:

One for base game random dungeon. Basically the queue we have now excluding the DLC dungeon

And one for a random DLC dungeon. Entering this queue in normal mode and finishing the dungeon your given will give you larger amount of bonus XP upon completion. Entering this queue in vet mode and finishing the dungeon your given gives you not only the extra XP, but double set gear drops (excluding monster helms) and/or a chance to drop a brand new Undaunted Legend themed motif. Guaranteed drop in hard mode on the final boss.

Everybody wins, people still get their XP bonus they want without having to “suffer” through a DLC dungeon, while at the same time there’s still incentive for people who are willing to take on the extra challenge.

DaveMoeDee

While I think the dlc dungeons are great and I enjoy running them on vet, I will never buy them because I want to be able to run random dungeons without them when I let my ESO+ lapse. I 100% support this change.

At the very least, this would improve the experience of people pugging the DLC pledge.

The downside is that it will take longer to form a group to pug non-pledge DLC dungeons. Plus, people who have DLC dungeons active when queuing for random will consistently be pulled into a group with someone trying to pug a DLC dungeon, due to less people to slot there. But they could also disable DLC dungeons from random pool. This is better than the current situation of queuing for a vDLC and having people consistently drop from your group. Or even worse, having them drop for lack of skill, requeue, and end up in your group again.

DaveMoeDee

idk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

1. Not a very strong argument. If anything it suggests a better rewards should be granted to those who have access to who have access to DLC dungeons.

I have suggested multiple times, including in this thread, a toggle. Those who opt into DLC dungeons get a better reward based on their access to DLC dungeons. Maybe a gold reward including a change for gold upgrade matts (think chance for gold jewelry upgrade matts.).

2. Yes, they may pay for ESO+ but this is not about customer service. It is merely griping because of not heeding the first two points To2C made.

3. Wrong. Finding a premade group is usually an easy option and is available most of the time. It is an excuse to suggest otherwise. When this game lauched the GF was an utter joke. If two DDs queued for available for the dame dungeon the GF would put them together in a group even though no tank or healer were available.

We formed groups from guild and Zone to do dungeons. If players choose to not be bothered with forming or finding a group that is their problem.

Since XP is the reward for random pugging, are you suggesting they get like 5x the XP for pugging the random and getting a DLC dungeon? The problem there is all the people who might drop from non-DLC randoms because they want the better reward. Or are you saying they get the better reward regardless of what dungeon they get? Then you get people dropping from group when they end up in DLC and just queuing again later.

The actual poor position is you final sentence. The point of the group finder is to for groups. You are saying if you use a feature in the game, that is your fault. That argument is absurd. And why are you even interjecting here if you are against using the feature in the first place?

As someone who has level 6 alts by just tanking random dailies, it became pretty predictable that once an alt hit 45, 90% of their random dungeons would end up DLC. I didn't mind since normal DLC dungeons aren't particularly hard, but they definitely are a lot longer than non-DLC. DLC dungeons are not 90% of the dungeons. It is absurd that my random at that level was reliably DLC. I understand why the queue might work that way, with so many sub-45 players and non-ESO+ players taking up non-DLC slots, but it is not a good experience. Especially with so many non-DLC dungeons that a level 45 players hasn't cleared since even the base game dungeons have level requirements.

The best solution is going to be the one that leads to the least rage against other players. The current system pushes people to do random dailies due to rewards but then encourages people to do frustrating behaviors like dropping and re-queuing until they get something they like or just being horrible until they get kicked and can re-queue. Admittedly, there is a downside to helping that problem by making DLC inclusion option in that people will have to queue longer if they want to clear a non-pledge DLC dungeons. But that is a better problem since it is a specific narrow case where people will find the group finder useless. Better to improved the 90% case than sacrifice the 90% case for the 10% scenario. Better to increase queue times in the 10% (or lower) case than to encourage a toxic environment.

karekiz

zvavi wrote: »

2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+

This isn't a great argument.

Vigor/Warhorn/Barrier requires PvP. I don't want to PvP thus I shouldn't have to PvP to gain access to skill lines.
Ele weapon requires me to go through content I don't want to do to gain an ability.
I want reliquen. I have to raid. I don't want to raid. Can you sell reli from a merchant please?
I like that Gryphon heart title. I don't want to raid. Can I have it without doing that?

There is tons of content people don't want to do. Now you might say they are forced into by random chance, however, that is the benefit/downside of random DF.

To me they should just do the most simple answer. *Remove* random dungeon finder from the game. It seems most people don't want to communicate with their group anyway, so it isn't that big an issue. Those that want to group can use specific que. Allow level 10 players to gain pledges <as IIRC its tagged as a level 40 or 45+ thing>, and move the quest and rewards to the pledge turn in.

Those that do DLC's now gain more xp, those that ignore will lose out. You want to auto que, then you have to use specific que. Not only that but we won't have "Random dungeon finder is busted so I can't gain XP reward" posts every year.

BlueMoonRising

If you don't want to play a RANDOM dungeon, how about not queuing for random dungeon? You have an option to select all the dungeons you want to queue for so just do that...

pelle412

The problem is, players want their cake and eat it too. All reward and no risk. There are so many ways to earn XP in this game, pick a different method instead of solo queueing for random dungeons (if above level 45).

DaveMoeDee

BlueMoonRising wrote: »

If you don't want to play a RANDOM dungeon, how about not queuing for random dungeon? You have an option to select all the dungeons you want to queue for so just do that...

Or better yet -- don't buy DLC and don't sub to ESO+. Seems like a good idea for ZOS to implement this in a way that encourages people to not give them revenue.

I get frustrated with responses like yours because your insight into the problem is myopic. You don't even acknowledge the problem for people who actually queue for DLC dungeons when the rest of the group just bails as soon as they see it is a DLC dungeon. As someone who likes DLC dungeons, let those of us who queue for the vet DLC pledge to not get paired with people doing randoms who aren't just going to bail.

Another annoying part of throwing randoms who don't want DLC dungeons into DLC dungeons is the GF makes me replace a tank that bailed on an incompetent group. If they are past first boss in pledge, I will just leave. I'm not doing a DLC pledge that I queued for with no chance at getting credit for pledge. If they are before first boss, do I stick with a group where the tank bailed because they couldn't clear first boss? If they say they kicked a fake tank, fine. But if they seem to be struggling on first boss, I will reevaluate after 5 minutes. Let those people filter out DLC so I am less likely to waste 20 minutes in their futility when they didn't even really want to be there in the first place.

Or how about when I queue for a DLC dungeon for the pledge and the 3 randos decide they want to do FG instead? I can't boot them. Yet I have no reason to clear FG since I'm not there for the daily random.

The problem with your response is that you don't seem to care about making the group finder lead to better results for everyone. Not as bad as the replies that say "no one should use the group finder," but still not helpful.

BlueMoonRising

Idk man people here are complaining about normal DLC dungeons. You can do them in lv 10 gear and they have almost no mechanics. If that's too hard then these people shouldn't queue for random dungeon until they feel ready for that.

idk

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

1. Not a very strong argument. If anything it suggests a better rewards should be granted to those who have access to who have access to DLC dungeons.

I have suggested multiple times, including in this thread, a toggle. Those who opt into DLC dungeons get a better reward based on their access to DLC dungeons. Maybe a gold reward including a change for gold upgrade matts (think chance for gold jewelry upgrade matts.).

2. Yes, they may pay for ESO+ but this is not about customer service. It is merely griping because of not heeding the first two points To2C made.

3. Wrong. Finding a premade group is usually an easy option and is available most of the time. It is an excuse to suggest otherwise. When this game lauched the GF was an utter joke. If two DDs queued for available for the dame dungeon the GF would put them together in a group even though no tank or healer were available.

We formed groups from guild and Zone to do dungeons. If players choose to not be bothered with forming or finding a group that is their problem.

Since XP is the reward for random pugging, are you suggesting they get like 5x the XP for pugging the random and getting a DLC dungeon? The problem there is all the people who might drop from non-DLC randoms because they want the better reward. Or are you saying they get the better reward regardless of what dungeon they get? Then you get people dropping from group when they end up in DLC and just queuing again later.

XP is only part of the reward for doing a random dungeon. Zos did not create any reward for pugging.

As for what I am suggesting please read my first post in this thread. Link provided.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6504069/#Comment_6504069

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

1. Not a very strong argument. If anything it suggests a better rewards should be granted to those who have access to who have access to DLC dungeons.

I have suggested multiple times, including in this thread, a toggle. Those who opt into DLC dungeons get a better reward based on their access to DLC dungeons. Maybe a gold reward including a change for gold upgrade matts (think chance for gold jewelry upgrade matts.).

2. Yes, they may pay for ESO+ but this is not about customer service. It is merely griping because of not heeding the first two points To2C made.

3. Wrong. Finding a premade group is usually an easy option and is available most of the time. It is an excuse to suggest otherwise. When this game lauched the GF was an utter joke. If two DDs queued for available for the dame dungeon the GF would put them together in a group even though no tank or healer were available.

We formed groups from guild and Zone to do dungeons. If players choose to not be bothered with forming or finding a group that is their problem.

The actual poor position is you final sentence. The point of the group finder is to for groups. You are saying if you use a feature in the game, that is your fault. That argument is absurd. And why are you even interjecting here if you are against using the feature in the first place?

LOL. Since it is well known that forming ones own group has a much better success rate since one can form a much better group on average it seems the only poor position is you attempting to dismiss such logic. Especially since I quoted someone who made a blatantly false statement that premade groups are usually not an option.

You are attempting to put words in my mouth trying to suggest I said I am against using the feature in the first place as I do random dungeons often. It is clearly an attempt to twist what I said to fit your weak argument.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

1. Not a very strong argument. If anything it suggests a better rewards should be granted to those who have access to who have access to DLC dungeons.

I have suggested multiple times, including in this thread, a toggle. Those who opt into DLC dungeons get a better reward based on their access to DLC dungeons. Maybe a gold reward including a change for gold upgrade matts (think chance for gold jewelry upgrade matts.).

2. Yes, they may pay for ESO+ but this is not about customer service. It is merely griping because of not heeding the first two points To2C made.

3. Wrong. Finding a premade group is usually an easy option and is available most of the time. It is an excuse to suggest otherwise. When this game lauched the GF was an utter joke. If two DDs queued for available for the dame dungeon the GF would put them together in a group even though no tank or healer were available.

We formed groups from guild and Zone to do dungeons. If players choose to not be bothered with forming or finding a group that is their problem.

As someone who has level 6 alts by just tanking random dailies, it became pretty predictable that once an alt hit 45, 90% of their random dungeons would end up DLC. t.

Odd how I have used random dungeons to level alts for the last 50 lvls and have not seen results such as yours. Not even close as there are often lower level players in the queue that do not have access to the DLC dungeons.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

1. Not a very strong argument. If anything it suggests a better rewards should be granted to those who have access to who have access to DLC dungeons.

I have suggested multiple times, including in this thread, a toggle. Those who opt into DLC dungeons get a better reward based on their access to DLC dungeons. Maybe a gold reward including a change for gold upgrade matts (think chance for gold jewelry upgrade matts.).

2. Yes, they may pay for ESO+ but this is not about customer service. It is merely griping because of not heeding the first two points To2C made.

3. Wrong. Finding a premade group is usually an easy option and is available most of the time. It is an excuse to suggest otherwise. When this game lauched the GF was an utter joke. If two DDs queued for available for the dame dungeon the GF would put them together in a group even though no tank or healer were available.

We formed groups from guild and Zone to do dungeons. If players choose to not be bothered with forming or finding a group that is their problem.

The best solution is going to be the one that leads to the least rage against other players. The current system pushes people to do random dailies due to rewards but then encourages people to do frustrating behaviors like dropping and re-queuing until they get something they like or just being horrible until they get kicked and can re-queue. Admittedly, there is a downside to helping that problem by making DLC inclusion option in that people will have to queue longer if they want to clear a non-pledge DLC dungeons. But that is a better problem since it is a specific narrow case where people will find the group finder useless. Better to improved the 90% case than sacrifice the 90% case for the 10% scenario. Better to increase queue times in the 10% (or lower) case than to encourage a toxic environment.

Odd, I have never raged due to using the random dungeon finder. Yes, I experience has shown me how easy it is to form ones own group and I lean on that wisdom. Granted, we often pug one person to see what we get with the lamest player being a melee that did not know they had an interrupt, lol. But we have never raged.

The best solution is not what you suggest. It is what I suggested earlier which I linked above. Ofc, we will still find some players rage when they cannot be bothered to form their own group even without an incentive to do random dungeons. That is not the fault of the game by any means and seems odd to blame the game for ones own choices.

L_Nici

@BlueMoonRising Yes some people can do them in level 10 gear, but you almost never get those in your group. And if you search random you can't decide who will be on your team, which leads to the problem that you get stuck with randoms at a certain boss and wasted your time, because some learning resistant player doesn't get what he has to do and ragequits after the second death.

BlueMoonRising

Until you feel like you can carry a group of potatoes on your own and you're not prepared to maybe not be able to finish a dungeon I would suggest you try to find people from your guilds to group and queue with. You'll still be eligible for daily rewards and you'll avoid the risk of random people. But from my experience if you have an idea what you're doing you can carry your group by doing most of mechanics and throwing an occasional heal to people that need it.

idk

L_Nici wrote: »

Yes some people can do them in level 10 gear, but you almost never get those in your group. And if you search random you can't decide who will be on your team, which leads to the propblem that you get stuck with randoms at a certain boss and wasted your time, because some learning resistant player doesn't get what he has to do and ragequits after the second death.

He did not say people do DLC dungeons in lvl 10 gear. He merely said they are easy enough to do in lvl 10 gear. Probably an exaggeration but still.

Yes, you are correct. If you have the game choose who you will group with then you are asking for a chance to be grouped with players who would be challenged with a single mud crab. After all we are rolling the dice. It is why many of us suggest the easy step of forming ones own group. Simple and fast but then who are we going to blame.

CassandraGemini

BlueMoonRising wrote: »

Idk man people here are complaining about normal DLC dungeons. You can do them in lv 10 gear and they have almost no mechanics. If that's too hard then these people shouldn't queue for random dungeon until they feel ready for that.

Where exactly did anyone say that this was specifically about normals? But even if, your point doesn't have anything to do with the actual issue, which is that there is way too big a difference between vanilla and DLC dungeons for them to give the same rewards. DLC dungeons take much longer, you need to look out for mechanics and they are arguably much harder than the vanillas. Yet we get the exact same reward for a random vanilla as for a random DLC dungeon, and that should be changed, one way or the other. Especially since it is really frustrating for ESO+ subscribers to actually be at a disadvantage because of our subscription. We pay ZOS extra money and basically get punished for it - or at least not rewarded accordingly, but just the same as the non-subscribers who don't have to deal with the DLC dungeons.

The thing is, I actually enjoy the DLC dungeons, because they force me to concentrate and really be on my toes all the time - if I want a challenge, this is where I'll go. But that is a choice then, I'll go into the specific queues, and mostly with a premade group. They are not dungeons I want to end up in, when doing a random vet. For random normals they're okay, but only if I know I have enough time because there's just no denying that they take significantly longer than the vanilla dungeons. Random vet I have pretty much given up on doing at all because as a subscriber I end up in the DLC dungeons all the time, and they are damn near impossible to PUG most of the time. There needs to be some sort of adjustment - either in the form of giving the DLC dungeons a seperate random queueing option, or, as someone suggested, better, possibly gold tier rewards. Because the way it is now is just plain unfair to the ESO+ people and clearly gives non-subscribers a much easier time, which is really weird, if you think about it. It's also a major reason, many people don't subscribe, so adjusting this would be in everyone's interest, even in ZOS's.

AlnilamE

zvavi wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Diminish wrote: »

I guess I just don't understand the problem here. ZoS definitely has bigger issues to tend to than this.

There are multiple problems at play ... touched on other posts in this thread:

1. Players knowingly queuing a PUG group instead of finding a pre-made for a random dungeon.

2. Players not spending 5 minutes online to learn DLC dungeon mechanics on a specific dungeon.

3. Player demands for an easier selection of dungeons but no mention of a commensurate reduction in rewards.

So, that is why we get these whine threads.

But you’re right, @Diminish ... ZOS has bigger fish to fry.

Very solid points, just that...
1. DLC dungeons are DLC content, therefore could be argued to have no place in random dungeon, especially since for some people they are not included in the random normal function.
2. A Lot of the people complaining are ones that pay for eso+. It has to do with customer service, they pay money and are forced to participate in content they don't want to, and wouldn't have to if not for eso+
3. Finding a premade group is usually not an option. As much as it is an mmo most of the player base treats it like single player. Probably have something to do with most of the content being focused on single player. So saying they are willingly joining pug... Not their fault the game is not built for groups.

The problem with those arguments is that the Random Dungeon option (and the rewards) are there to help people who want to complete a specific dungeon do so.

Sometimes that's a new player trying their first dungeon and you end up in Spindleclutch. Sometimes it's someone looking for BSW and you end up in City of Ash. And sometimes it's someone who wants to farm gear/motifs/achievements in DLC dungeons and that's where you end up.

Why are the people who want to run DLC dungeons not deserving of help?