Exclude DLC Dungeons from random search.

MehrunesFlagon

AlnilamE wrote: »

Also note that WGT and ICP are now part of the base game, so even people without ESO+ will get those. I'm betting pretty soon Shadows of the Hist and maybe Horns of the Reach will also be part of the base game, and that will solve the distinction between ESO+ and free players.

Oh, people are really going to love that I tell you.

buttaface

Mr_Walker wrote: »

I'm always glad we have the pedants in these threads explaining what random means for us all. God bless.

Every game forum has them, almost always the same, absurdly high post counts, tend to lecture people to do things they were already fully aware of instead of simply agreeing or disagreeing with the feedback or requested change. This forum is no different.

The topic of this thread is advocating for change that allows players to get the random normal dungeon rewards without doing DLC dungeons if they don't like DLC dungeons. It's that simple, agree or disagree with such a change. The topic is not ways to avoid doing DLC dungeons generally, which players are already well aware of.

To the topic, there would be no harm IMO in allowing players to get the random normal rewards without doing DLC dungeons they don't like. They still have to complete the dungeon, there are several ways in the game to get more experience -solo- in a similar amount of time (FAR more), and the rewards for random normal other than the exp aren't some uber loot. So, if there were a way to allow players to avoid doing content they don't like while also learning to be better at cooperative play, I'm all for it.

buttaface

AlnilamE wrote: »

The normal rewards of XP and mats/gear are adequate for running a DLC dungeon (which should take 30-45 minutes depending on dungeon).

Whether they are "adequate" or not is your opinion, and that's fine, I disagree. There are -many- far easier ways to get much more exp and gold equivalent in 30-45 minutes solo than a random normal DLC dungeon. Farming pretty much any public dungeon or aoe farming any of dozens of mob camps yield more for example. Team play should be encouraged where possible and give higher rewards. So perhaps a higher reward tier for including the DLC dungeons would be appropriate. If it were high enough, it would encourage people to queue for them and alleviate the prospective "empty DLC queue" problem at the same time.

But would suggest that given the frequency of the complaints about the DLC dungeons, it's reasonable to conclude that a fairly large segment of the player base doesn't enjoy doing them. Why not allow those players to play cooperatively, get the very modest random normal rewards without doing what they do not enjoy?

The kinds of players who do the most PUGGING in ESO are not the kinds to post most on the forums. I PUG tank 4-12 normal dungeons with such players daily. Because of defects in the game, IME a large majority of the player base end up above CP160 and not being able to do more than 4-5k DPS (not exaggerating even a little) or adequately heal a group in ANY content. I also believe, based on the cosmetics I see, that they do spend lots of real $$ on the game. For the health of the game, I'd rather include them, give them more opportunities for casual team play in hopes that some of them will improve to the lofty heights of doing 10k DPS rather than exclude them from what should be part of the casual and not the serious game content. Maybe they will spend more $$ on the game so that ZOS can fix some of the many gaping flaws in ESO.

Nordic__Knights

I PLAYED eso today to see if the lag was bad que'ed for randoms did VWGT and VBF both runs lasted 35 minutes and had 2 wipes at last boss but got finished with no big issues and lag while it never hit too might actually start playing eso again after todays testing
So would i like to see dlc removed from order NO as 1 id never had this chance to test if lag was still an issue or 2 if group finder was working in less then 2 hours of playing today
Did get an fake healer in VBF but was on templar and was able to make up for that luckily 😆 😆 😆

buttaface

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Oh, people are really going to love that I tell you.

There is a head-scratching disconnect between what most of this game actually is, a very casual piece of MMO fluff fashioned from a single player RPG, and what ZOS seems to think it is, a "script/level learning" arcade/console serious raid game. WOW worked because the technology did not yet exist to put aiming and real parkour into MMOs. Though it worked, the EQ treadmill raid model is pretty much dead and gamers "been there done that." Such technology has existed, exists now, though, for 10 years or so, have played many games with it over the last ten years. Yet ESO is still developed as if their player base are mostly "seriousbidness" raiders when they very obviously are not. It's the first MMO I've ever played to an intermediate level that I didn't care one whit about advancing in PvE, and that's due 90% to the excessive reliance on scripts instead of meaningful team tactics. Not keeping a ledger or spreadsheet to keep 100 scripts straight. I expect a casual game to train its player base in basic team tactics and then use those tactics and not rote script learning to do the content.

idk

buttaface wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Oh, people are really going to love that I tell you.

There is a head-scratching disconnect between what most of this game actually is, a very casual piece of MMO fluff fashioned from a single player RPG, and what ZOS seems to think it is, a "script/level learning" arcade/console serious raid game. WOW worked because the technology did not yet exist to put aiming and real parkour into MMOs. Though it worked, the EQ treadmill raid model is pretty much dead and gamers "been there done that." Such technology has existed, exists now, though, for 10 years or so, have played many games with it over the last ten years. Yet ESO is still developed as if their player base are mostly "seriousbidness" raiders when they very obviously are not. It's the first MMO I've ever played to an intermediate level that I didn't care one whit about advancing in PvE, and that's due 90% to the excessive reliance on scripts instead of meaningful team tactics. Not keeping a ledger or spreadsheet to keep 100 scripts straight. I expect a casual game to train its player base in basic team tactics and then use those tactics and not rote script learning to do the content.

When Zos released the first trials which had to be completed with less than 36+ deaths I would have agreed as that design would put a heavy road block on casual groups trying to learn the content since they would have to restart every two to three wipes.

Since Zos not only removed that hard cap but also added normal versions of all dungeons and trials making them easily clearable by all but the most challenged players I completely disagree. In every single game I have played I have seen players struggle with some of the most basic group content in the game.

With ESO that skill curve is more real than most other games of today's time so there are probably more than are that challenged here. I do not think Zos needs to cater to the lowest denominator across all aspects of the game. Most of those challenged players need to find a decent guild if they want to learn more about playing this game right.

I speak from experience as in my first MMORPG I derped around. Read builds and such. But it was my first guild where I learned to play better and rose to clear the toughest content in that game. I have also taken in new ESO players that struggled to notice mechanics and in the end they were clearing vet trials. The ones who want to run around solo, do not want to guild up and improve are likely the larger portion that is challenged with the DLC dungeons.

Regardless, my suggestion solves both issues. Keeps an incentive on DLC dungeons and also allows players to opt out. Post #7 of this thread.

AlnilamE

buttaface wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

The normal rewards of XP and mats/gear are adequate for running a DLC dungeon (which should take 30-45 minutes depending on dungeon).

Whether they are "adequate" or not is your opinion, and that's fine, I disagree. There are -many- far easier ways to get much more exp and gold equivalent in 30-45 minutes solo than a random normal DLC dungeon. Farming pretty much any public dungeon or aoe farming any of dozens of mob camps yield more for example. Team play should be encouraged where possible and give higher rewards. So perhaps a higher reward tier for including the DLC dungeons would be appropriate. If it were high enough, it would encourage people to queue for them and alleviate the prospective "empty DLC queue" problem at the same time.

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

But would suggest that given the frequency of the complaints about the DLC dungeons, it's reasonable to conclude that a fairly large segment of the player base doesn't enjoy doing them. Why not allow those players to play cooperatively, get the very modest random normal rewards without doing what they do not enjoy?

Considering how many people use the dungeon finder daily, I would say that the number of complaints is not that great.

The kinds of players who do the most PUGGING in ESO are not the kinds to post most on the forums. I PUG tank 4-12 normal dungeons with such players daily. Because of defects in the game, IME a large majority of the player base end up above CP160 and not being able to do more than 4-5k DPS (not exaggerating even a little) or adequately heal a group in ANY content. I also believe, based on the cosmetics I see, that they do spend lots of real $$ on the game. For the health of the game, I'd rather include them, give them more opportunities for casual team play in hopes that some of them will improve to the lofty heights of doing 10k DPS rather than exclude them from what should be part of the casual and not the serious game content. Maybe they will spend more $$ on the game so that ZOS can fix some of the many gaping flaws in ESO.

I'm above CP 810 and my main can pull 15k DPS on a good day. I have alts that can do better, but my main is the one I try to complete things on. If I can get through DLC dungeons no matter what the group, then other people can as well, if they pay attention to what's happening.

One of my guildies very rarely did dungeons until they put motif pages in them. Then he made one of his characters a tank and went to Ruins of Mazzatun. He tried it in Normal and Vet until he beat it and learned all the ins and outs. Then he spent time running it in Normal so he could teach people the mechanics for when they went to do vet.

After he was done there, he moved to Cradle of Shadows, and then to Scalecaller, which is now his favourite dungeon. He will show anyone the ropes if they listen, and he has no problem taking level 45s through the DLC dungeons, or people below CP 160.

I think a lot of the problem with the DLC dungeons is that people heard they are so hard, when they are not harder than City of Ash 2, and they are so long, when most of them are not longer then Blackheart Haven or Tempest Island, and they give up before they really try.

idk

AlnilamE wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

The normal rewards of XP and mats/gear are adequate for running a DLC dungeon (which should take 30-45 minutes depending on dungeon).

Whether they are "adequate" or not is your opinion, and that's fine, I disagree. There are -many- far easier ways to get much more exp and gold equivalent in 30-45 minutes solo than a random normal DLC dungeon. Farming pretty much any public dungeon or aoe farming any of dozens of mob camps yield more for example. Team play should be encouraged where possible and give higher rewards. So perhaps a higher reward tier for including the DLC dungeons would be appropriate. If it were high enough, it would encourage people to queue for them and alleviate the prospective "empty DLC queue" problem at the same time.

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

But would suggest that given the frequency of the complaints about the DLC dungeons, it's reasonable to conclude that a fairly large segment of the player base doesn't enjoy doing them. Why not allow those players to play cooperatively, get the very modest random normal rewards without doing what they do not enjoy?

Considering how many people use the dungeon finder daily, I would say that the number of complaints is not that great.

The kinds of players who do the most PUGGING in ESO are not the kinds to post most on the forums. I PUG tank 4-12 normal dungeons with such players daily. Because of defects in the game, IME a large majority of the player base end up above CP160 and not being able to do more than 4-5k DPS (not exaggerating even a little) or adequately heal a group in ANY content. I also believe, based on the cosmetics I see, that they do spend lots of real $$ on the game. For the health of the game, I'd rather include them, give them more opportunities for casual team play in hopes that some of them will improve to the lofty heights of doing 10k DPS rather than exclude them from what should be part of the casual and not the serious game content. Maybe they will spend more $$ on the game so that ZOS can fix some of the many gaping flaws in ESO.

I'm above CP 810 and my main can pull 15k DPS on a good day. I have alts that can do better, but my main is the one I try to complete things on. If I can get through DLC dungeons no matter what the group, then other people can as well, if they pay attention to what's happening.

One of my guildies very rarely did dungeons until they put motif pages in them. Then he made one of his characters a tank and went to Ruins of Mazzatun. He tried it in Normal and Vet until he beat it and learned all the ins and outs. Then he spent time running it in Normal so he could teach people the mechanics for when they went to do vet.

After he was done there, he moved to Cradle of Shadows, and then to Scalecaller, which is now his favourite dungeon. He will show anyone the ropes if they listen, and he has no problem taking level 45s through the DLC dungeons, or people below CP 160.

I think a lot of the problem with the DLC dungeons is that people heard they are so hard, when they are not harder than City of Ash 2, and they are so long, when most of them are not longer then Blackheart Haven or Tempest Island, and they give up before they really try.

This is a great example about the reality of the DLC dungeons and the benefit of running with similar people on a regular basis. It is merely they have mechanics and more interesting fights but it does mean people need to learn the fights so they recognize the mechanics and know what to do.

If a player is going to ask the GF to form your entire group form random people it just might give them experienced players but it also means they are literally asking for a chanced to get players who do not have a clue.

Ysbriel

What i think is that Veteran dungeons should have the same by level unlock the normal dungeons have. Because even when players queue up for their respective roles on VET its a hassle to be the tank and everybody keeps getting one shot not even by one shot mechanics. a simple from plain level 50 to 160 certain Vet dungeons ate available and 160 to 200 making the last ones 300cp and above. you would be surprised how many times i had to solo the lamia queen on vet as a tank because the team simply dies by anything.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Or, the players that want DLC dungeons play them, and everyone else just bail after the load screen. After enough players leave they’ll find someone who also wants to do it

idk

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Or, the players that want DLC dungeons play them, and everyone else just bail after the load screen. After enough players leave they’ll find someone who also wants to do it

Or more people could take the time to learn to do the DLC dungeons. AlnilamE provided a great example of how player that are not your top raiders can get pretty good at the DLC dungeons by taking the time to learn them. I cannot understand why people play a game and only want to play half of it let alone have interest in the challenge. I guess we all have our own interests.

FierceSam

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

And I’m more happy with the situation with WGT and ICP. Even though both are significantly more difficult than the vast majority of non-DLC dungeons, at least everyone is in the same position so no ‘punishing’ ESO+ subscribers. I think ZOS will have an issue (the same issue they have with ESO+ players right now) if you’re putting Cradle of Shadows in the same queue as Fungal Grotto 1. That goes double for Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold. Vet or normal, you have an issue there.

The point remains, players know what they’re able to do, not everyone is ready for DLC dungeons. Give them the choice, rather than force them into content they don’t want to do. ZOS should not use ESO+ subscribers as cannon fodder.

idk

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

When you queue for a random and have access to DLC dungeons you are literally signing up to do a DLC dungeon if that is what pops. No one is forcing anyone to do anything at all. They are choosing to roll the dice on that. It really is that simple.

witchdoctor

I think Maj's dungeons should be placed into a new category of 'Public Dungeon+.'

Give their pledge to Bolgrul.

If the random daily is going to be treated as a glorified XP boost, make it for something harder than FG1.

mobicera

Wow been gone for about 9 months, come back and the dlc dungeons in randoms is still a gripe for people it seems.
Personally I love getting dlc dungeons in randoms that's where the fun is at.
Actually got one of the new ones(or new to me) Sunday, lair of maarselok.
I had just came back from a long break jumped on my tank and just started doing random vets just because.
Got vfl, vscp, vmhk, vcos, vlom and probably more as I did many randoms.
Completed all of them without much difficulty. I had to learn how to tank vlom so that one we had a few wipes in while I learned.
I was upfront at the start and a nice person on ps4 got on voice and explained everything to me. It took maybe a bit over an hour but we completed without replacing anyone or getting frustrated.

Personally I want to keep dlc in randoms some of us actually like this content...

buttaface

AlnilamE wrote: »

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

No, it means that there's not any convincing reason preventing the option of excluding DLC dungeons from Random Normal.

buttaface

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Or, the players that want DLC dungeons play them, and everyone else just bail after the load screen. After enough players leave they’ll find someone who also wants to do it

This is the status quo that the "keep DLCs in random" side always ignore.

AlnilamE

buttaface wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

No, it means that there's not any convincing reason preventing the option of excluding DLC dungeons from Random Normal.

Other than wanting a reward without putting in the work.

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

You misunderstand. When I sign up for the random queue, I am pledging to help another player complete a dungeon they want to do and return Undaunted!

Whether that dungeon is a DLC or not is not my decision at all.

CassandraGemini

AlnilamE wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

No, it means that there's not any convincing reason preventing the option of excluding DLC dungeons from Random Normal.

Other than wanting a reward without putting in the work.

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

You misunderstand. When I sign up for the random queue, I am pledging to help another player complete a dungeon they want to do and return Undaunted!

Whether that dungeon is a DLC or not is not my decision at all.

You might want to consider that there is such a thing as a difference of opinion where not necessarily one side has to be "right" and the other one "wrong". Your opinion is not more or less valid than wanting to be able to opt in/out to/of DLC dungeons or wanting a better reward for doing them. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with people doing the randoms for the reward - that is the reason the reward exists in the first place, to give people an incentive to even enter the random dungeon queue.

And where "wanting a reward without putting in the work" is concerned... what about the people who don't have ESO+ then? They obviously get the reward without putting in the work, as you put it. So, that's fine then, I take it? Because they don't pay ZOS extra, they have to work less? Interesting point of view.

AlnilamE

CassandraGemini wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

No, it means that there's not any convincing reason preventing the option of excluding DLC dungeons from Random Normal.

Other than wanting a reward without putting in the work.

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

You misunderstand. When I sign up for the random queue, I am pledging to help another player complete a dungeon they want to do and return Undaunted!

Whether that dungeon is a DLC or not is not my decision at all.

You might want to consider that there is such a thing as a difference of opinion where not necessarily one side has to be "right" and the other one "wrong". Your opinion is not more or less valid than wanting to be able to opt in/out to/of DLC dungeons or wanting a better reward for doing them. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with people doing the randoms for the reward - that is the reason the reward exists in the first place, to give people an incentive to even enter the random dungeon queue.

And where "wanting a reward without putting in the work" is concerned... what about the people who don't have ESO+ then? They obviously get the reward without putting in the work, as you put it. So, that's fine then, I take it? Because they don't pay ZOS extra, they have to work less? Interesting point of view.

I'm not the one that wants to exclude DLC dungeons because they "take too long" and "are too hard".

I'd rather do a DLC than one of the longer normal ones, as they are more interesting. Give me Mazzatun over City of Ash 2, or White Gold Tower over Volenfell.

As for non ESO+ subscribers, they already get WGT and ICP, and soon they will get more "DLC" dungeons as they get absorbed into the base game.

CassandraGemini

AlnilamE wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

That's great! That means people can go do that for XP instead of complaining about DLC dungeons. For me, a DLC random would take less time than other in-game activities in terms of XP, with the exception of Master Writs.

No, it means that there's not any convincing reason preventing the option of excluding DLC dungeons from Random Normal.

Other than wanting a reward without putting in the work.

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

You misunderstand. When I sign up for the random queue, I am pledging to help another player complete a dungeon they want to do and return Undaunted!

Whether that dungeon is a DLC or not is not my decision at all.

You might want to consider that there is such a thing as a difference of opinion where not necessarily one side has to be "right" and the other one "wrong". Your opinion is not more or less valid than wanting to be able to opt in/out to/of DLC dungeons or wanting a better reward for doing them. Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with people doing the randoms for the reward - that is the reason the reward exists in the first place, to give people an incentive to even enter the random dungeon queue.

And where "wanting a reward without putting in the work" is concerned... what about the people who don't have ESO+ then? They obviously get the reward without putting in the work, as you put it. So, that's fine then, I take it? Because they don't pay ZOS extra, they have to work less? Interesting point of view.

I'm not the one that wants to exclude DLC dungeons because they "take too long" and "are too hard".

I'd rather do a DLC than one of the longer normal ones, as they are more interesting. Give me Mazzatun over City of Ash 2, or White Gold Tower over Volenfell.

As for non ESO+ subscribers, they already get WGT and ICP, and soon they will get more "DLC" dungeons as they get absorbed into the base game.

But that's exactly my point. How does you not being the one who wants to change something make you more "right" than the people who do want to change it? I personally enjoy the DLC dungeons as well, and wouldn't opt out of them in the normal queue. But vet? Definitely. There really is quite a difference between a vet vanilla and a vet DLC dungeon, and I would gladly accept getting a lesser reward, if I didn't have to put up with the chance of getting one as my random vet.

Anyway, thinking back a few months I also would not have wanted to have DLC dungeons in my random normal queue, simply because I would not have felt comfortable enough and confident enough in my own abilities - thus, I was forced to quit doing randoms whenever I hit level 45 with a toon. And there are lots of players out there who are more on the casual side - putting them in DLC dungeons benefits no one, and I'm pretty sure they too would take a lesser reward if it meant not ending up in one unwillingly. And is it really so unreasonable to want a better reward for completing a DLC dungeon when there is clearly a difference in the time and capabilities required to do them? I don't think so.

As for your second point: I don't know this for sure, but I believe I read or heard somewhere that they added Imperial City to the base game to expand the PvP options. Not sure that that means they'll add the other DLCs too after a while - as long as people pay for them, I don't see them doing it, to be honest. Do you have any source on this or is it just speculation?

Diminish

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

And I’m more happy with the situation with WGT and ICP. Even though both are significantly more difficult than the vast majority of non-DLC dungeons, at least everyone is in the same position so no ‘punishing’ ESO+ subscribers. I think ZOS will have an issue (the same issue they have with ESO+ players right now) if you’re putting Cradle of Shadows in the same queue as Fungal Grotto 1. That goes double for Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold. Vet or normal, you have an issue there.

The point remains, players know what they’re able to do, not everyone is ready for DLC dungeons. Give them the choice, rather than force them into content they don’t want to do. ZOS should not use ESO+ subscribers as cannon fodder.

It is the players choice to queue for a random dungeon. At which point they are fully aware that the dungeon will be randomly selected. Let's be real, people just feel they should be entitled to the bonus xp without taking the risk of getting a more challenging dungeon. If anything, ZoS should leave this alone and simply scale rewards according to dungeon difficulty. If you get a DLC dungeon for your random, so be it. You will be rewarded with more xp than someone who got Spindleclutch 1 for theirs.

Zephard

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Also note that WGT and ICP are now part of the base game, so even people without ESO+ will get those. I'm betting pretty soon Shadows of the Hist and maybe Horns of the Reach will also be part of the base game, and that will solve the distinction between ESO+ and free players.

Oh, people are really going to love that I tell you.

IC is not in the basic game, you had to actual purchase it for 0 crowns. If you didn't want to risk WGT and ICP in your rotation and you didn't do IC normally, then you didn't have to buy it.
If they do the same thing for the next couple of dlc (dungeon only), people might not buy them.

I don't agree with adding more rewards.

I never thought about why the Random Dungeon got extra rewards to begin with, but if it is as way to backfill, then you are getting enough payment. Don't need extra extra, you signed up for the extra payment already.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Diminish wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Part of the purpose of the Random Dungeon option is to backfill groups that had a member leave. Removing DLC dungeons from that pool would only make it harder to replace a member who left or was kicked.

It simply needs the option to exclude them,but that should go for the lower level dungeons as well.

There's already an option to exclude any dungeon you don't want: use the Specific Dungeon checklist.

Now, that doesn't grant the extra Daily Random rewards, which is probably why more people don't use it. Nonetheless, its a surefire way to make sure you don't get a dungeon you don't want to run.

I’m not sure why people are so set on forcing ESO+ subscribers into a different set of random dungeons than non-subscribers. Cos that’s what you’re saying.

It is totally unfair and counter productive to add DLC dungeons to a player’s random dungeon queue simply because they have an ESO+ subscription.

I get that ZOS have to backfill their DLC content because, while fun, it caters for a very small minority of PvE players, but shoving in players who don’t want/aren’t ready to do them into DLC dungeons is not the right way to do it.

And yes it might take more time to fill the holes left by players who didn’t want to be there, but surely it’s better to fill them with players who want to be there rather than another poor ESO+ player who’s simply going to look at the load screen and leave.

As long as someone queues for a DLC dungeon (for whatever reason) and they don't have a full group, they should be able to get help from the Random Dungeon queue.

That's what the queue is there for. If we are going to remove the function and allow people to only help players in easy dungeons, then we might as well remove the random queue all together and save ourselves the whining threads.

That’s fine as long as you shove everyone into that queue.

What’s not fine is ZOS using their subscribers as cannon fodder while not abusing non-subscribers that way. It’s beyond moronic that they only way you can avoid getting DLC dungeons is if you cancel your subscription.

And for those saying it doesn’t matter cos they’re easy peasy, I’ll just be calling them on that.

I'm not going to say they are easy peasy, but I'm not a very good player and in the case of Normal DLCs, the only one I've been in that's ever fallen apart was the first time I got put in Scalecaller and our group quit after a couple of wipes at the Ogre bosses, but IIRC we didn't actually have a tank, on top of being new to the mechanics.

And I say this as a subscriber.

I generally queue as Healer, sometimes as Tank, because DPS queues are long and I have plenty of characters. I end up in DLC dungeons maybe half the time? If that makes me cannon fodder, that's exactly what I signed up for.

And you won't be able to avoid DLCs very long by cancelling ESO+. WGT and ICP are part of the base game now, as part of Imperial City. Soon, Shadows of the Hist will too, and then Horns of the Reach will follow.

Hey AlnilamE

If doing DLC is what you signed up for, brilliant. But it should be your choice not ZOS’s. That’s the important thing. Forcing players who aren’t ready or prepared for the content into DLC dungeons doesn’t help them or the players, like you, who want to do DLC dungeons.

And I’m more happy with the situation with WGT and ICP. Even though both are significantly more difficult than the vast majority of non-DLC dungeons, at least everyone is in the same position so no ‘punishing’ ESO+ subscribers. I think ZOS will have an issue (the same issue they have with ESO+ players right now) if you’re putting Cradle of Shadows in the same queue as Fungal Grotto 1. That goes double for Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold. Vet or normal, you have an issue there.

The point remains, players know what they’re able to do, not everyone is ready for DLC dungeons. Give them the choice, rather than force them into content they don’t want to do. ZOS should not use ESO+ subscribers as cannon fodder.

It is the players choice to queue for a random dungeon. At which point they are fully aware that the dungeon will be randomly selected. Let's be real, people just feel they should be entitled to the bonus xp without taking the risk of getting a more challenging dungeon. If anything, ZoS should leave this alone and simply scale rewards according to dungeon difficulty. If you get a DLC dungeon for your random, so be it. You will be rewarded with more xp than someone who got Spindleclutch 1 for theirs.

I dont think its so much about people “not wanting to take the risk” but about wanting a quick dungeon to fill in some free time and not get slapped with a 15 minute penalty when they leave the DLC. I’ve done all the DLCs at least on normal, but I do them when I’m in a particular mood for them and with a guild.

Ppl just want the risk and rewards to be the same for subscribers and non-subscribers. Its that simple. Nothing more to be drawn from it.

Nordic__Knights

Award me for doing nothing and never growing is all i see here this comes down to im entitled something better for doing nothingness get over it you dont like dlc content then dont buy nor sub to eso+ you'll never have to do anything other then low grade boring walk in the park things for your award but us that do dlc because we ENJOY them dont care for better awards we do them because WE ENJOY THEM over doing nothingness in old ones

ForzaRammer

L_Nici wrote: »

As stated it is just a pain, if you have ESO Plus or acces to the DLC dungeons you can stop searching for random dungeons above Level 45, since you will get placed in DLC all the time.
Just had it again a bunch of randoms, a fake healer, a fake tank placed into Moonhunter Keep there was never a chance to make it and 2 left early on and we got no replacement at all. I want to have the option to exclude any DLC dungeons out of the random search without paying for it with the Bonus XP like it is the case if I would search a specific dungeon.

Better idea. Scrap random dungeon completely. Move exp to pledge quest

Diminish

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I dont think its so much about people “not wanting to take the risk” but about wanting a quick dungeon to fill in some free time and not get slapped with a 15 minute penalty when they leave the DLC. I’ve done all the DLCs at least on normal, but I do them when I’m in a particular mood for them and with a guild.

Ppl just want the risk and rewards to be the same for subscribers and non-subscribers. Its that simple. Nothing more to be drawn from it.

If they are looking to fill in some free time, they can queue for whatever dungeons they are specifically wanting to include in their dungeon queue. The point is, people queue for the random daily because of the bonus XP that is awarded. It is a risk -vs- reward system... Their reward is the bonus XP. In an attempt at obtaining that reward, they risk running any randomly selected dungeon accessible to them; that is the risk they take. Normal DLC dungeons, albeit a little tougher, are really NOT that challenging. A PUG with 2 whom are comfortable in the dungeon could easily carry the other 2 through.

Hell, I took an 11 month break from this game. I came back about 3-4 weeks ago. All my guilds were dead, hardly any friends ever play ESO anymore, and I had PUG clears on all vet DLC dungeons post Murkmire in no time at all. I came back to a completely different meta, and cleared them on a 1 pet sorc build that was severely crippled - familiar was nerfed, DoTs had increased costs making sustain an absolute nightmare, clench no longer stunned with a lighting staff, power surge no longer healed, etc.

The only reason people are failing to complete DLC dungeons on normal is because they refuse to learn the dungeons or refuse to learn to play their characters better. If that is someone's play style then so be it, I hope they get enjoyment out of the game. However, everything is this game does not need to be handed out to the masses. There needs to be somewhat challenging content outside of veteran trials. If there was no bonus xp reward for the daily random this topic, and the many before it wouldn't exist. If you cant be arsed to potentially land in a random DLC dungeon, then go run a circle at Spellscar for ~25 minutes and earn just as much XP as you would running a normal daily.

Diminish

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Award me for doing nothing and never growing is all i see here this comes down to im entitled something better for doing nothingness get over it you dont like dlc content then dont buy nor sub to eso+ you'll never have to do anything other then low grade boring walk in the park things for your award but us that do dlc because we ENJOY them dont care for better awards we do them because WE ENJOY THEM over doing nothingness in old ones

This. I absolutely hate when I see something like Fungal Grotto, Crypt of Hearts, Wayrest Sewers. etc. pop up as a random. Give me Bloodroot Forge, Moongrave Fane, Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, etc. all day long... and I only queue for veteran daily randoms; I doubt I would even enjoy the DLC dungeons on normal. Not every dungeon is a stroll in the park, but that is what makes it fun (and rewarding). Does this mean I should start a topic requesting that ZoS give me an option to only queue for random DLC dungeons???

Nordic__Knights

Diminish wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Award me for doing nothing and never growing is all i see here this comes down to im entitled something better for doing nothingness get over it you dont like dlc content then dont buy nor sub to eso+ you'll never have to do anything other then low grade boring walk in the park things for your award but us that do dlc because we ENJOY them dont care for better awards we do them because WE ENJOY THEM over doing nothingness in old ones

This. I absolutely hate when I see something like Fungal Grotto, Crypt of Hearts, Wayrest Sewers. etc. pop up as a random. Give me Bloodroot Forge, Moongrave Fane, Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, etc. all day long... and I only queue for veteran daily randoms; I doubt I would even enjoy the DLC dungeons on normal. Not every dungeon is a stroll in the park, but that is what makes it fun (and rewarding). Does this mean I should start a topic requesting that ZoS give me an option to only queue for random DLC dungeons???

I myself hate getting old boring dungeons ive done 100's of times and for the most part can solo them i love getting dlc ones and like it even more then the group is mixed between different cp lvls not all max because it just makes it more fun to have to work at something then run right on passed it like nothingness

Bobby_V_Rockit

Diminish wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Award me for doing nothing and never growing is all i see here this comes down to im entitled something better for doing nothingness get over it you dont like dlc content then dont buy nor sub to eso+ you'll never have to do anything other then low grade boring walk in the park things for your award but us that do dlc because we ENJOY them dont care for better awards we do them because WE ENJOY THEM over doing nothingness in old ones

This. I absolutely hate when I see something like Fungal Grotto, Crypt of Hearts, Wayrest Sewers. etc. pop up as a random. Give me Bloodroot Forge, Moongrave Fane, Scalecaller Peak, Fang Lair, Depths of Malatar, etc. all day long... and I only queue for veteran daily randoms; I doubt I would even enjoy the DLC dungeons on normal. Not every dungeon is a stroll in the park, but that is what makes it fun (and rewarding). Does this mean I should start a topic requesting that ZoS give me an option to only queue for random DLC dungeons???

You could just select only DLC dungeons and not use the random feature. Bam! No base game dungeons