Olupajmibanan wrote: »You can't just change heavy armor passives without any compensation. Remember that ZoS stubbornly refuses to balance PvE and PvP separately, so by changes to heavy armor passives you would need to give PvE tanks something in return. For example, taking away Constitution passive and replacing it with some defensive bs would be great change for PvP but will cripple PvE tanks and what's worse, it would have much greater impact on non-DK tanks.
PvP and PvE are two worlds of EQUAL IMPORTANCE. ZoS refuses to balance them separately and doesn't seem to change it's opinion anytime soon. We must deal with it, therefore, under these circumstances I (and many others) will never support an idea that is focused one world but will negatively impact the second.
Olupajmibanan wrote: »You can't just change heavy armor passives without any compensation. Remember that ZoS stubbornly refuses to balance PvE and PvP separately, so by changes to heavy armor passives you would need to give PvE tanks something in return. For example, taking away Constitution passive and replacing it with some defensive bs would be great change for PvP but will cripple PvE tanks and what's worse, it would have much greater impact on non-DK tanks.
PvP and PvE are two worlds of EQUAL IMPORTANCE. ZoS refuses to balance them separately and doesn't seem to change it's opinion anytime soon. We must deal with it, therefore, under these circumstances I (and many others) will never support an idea that is focused one world but will negatively impact the second.
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
I could heal through the dot son my light and medium armor builds no issue, and im running some pretty basic setups. People just got triggered cuz they were finally being killed when they werent used to it imo. Why is it ok for magicka classes to have to use all their stam to dodge, block etc, and not ok for stam classes to use purges to use all their magicka? Its a MASSIVE double standard. You have about 10 seconds to respond to dots, you have 1 to respond to burst.
StaticWave wrote: »I rock 6.4k weapon damage, 30k max stam, and 33k resist fully buffed in medium armor. Does that make me a tank?
Also please double check heavy armor passives and point out to me one single passive that boosts your damage. I will gladly give you 1 million in-game gold if you can do so.
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
I could heal through the dot son my light and medium armor builds no issue, and im running some pretty basic setups. People just got triggered cuz they were finally being killed when they werent used to it imo. Why is it ok for magicka classes to have to use all their stam to dodge, block etc, and not ok for stam classes to use purges to use all their magicka? Its a MASSIVE double standard. You have about 10 seconds to respond to dots, you have 1 to respond to burst.
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
I could heal through the dot son my light and medium armor builds no issue, and im running some pretty basic setups. People just got triggered cuz they were finally being killed when they werent used to it imo. Why is it ok for magicka classes to have to use all their stam to dodge, block etc, and not ok for stam classes to use purges to use all their magicka? Its a MASSIVE double standard. You have about 10 seconds to respond to dots, you have 1 to respond to burst.
The point is to predict burst and respond preemptively. This is where experience comes into play and where the skill of the game used to be at knowing the matchups and coming up with an effective strategy to win. The DoT meta was terrible just apply DoTs and wait for your opponent to burn resources trying to heal through them and the classes with the strongest heals/survivability wins otherwise known as Templars, magsorcs, and DKs. And you'd have a point with purge if there wasn't only 1 available and if it didn't cost 5k mag (while in 5 light) so probably 6 if in medium making it impractical.
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
I could heal through the dot son my light and medium armor builds no issue, and im running some pretty basic setups. People just got triggered cuz they were finally being killed when they werent used to it imo. Why is it ok for magicka classes to have to use all their stam to dodge, block etc, and not ok for stam classes to use purges to use all their magicka? Its a MASSIVE double standard. You have about 10 seconds to respond to dots, you have 1 to respond to burst.
Ye because stamina classes doesn't use magicka for utility......
@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
I could heal through the dot son my light and medium armor builds no issue, and im running some pretty basic setups. People just got triggered cuz they were finally being killed when they werent used to it imo. Why is it ok for magicka classes to have to use all their stam to dodge, block etc, and not ok for stam classes to use purges to use all their magicka? Its a MASSIVE double standard. You have about 10 seconds to respond to dots, you have 1 to respond to burst.
The point is to predict burst and respond preemptively. This is where experience comes into play and where the skill of the game used to be at knowing the matchups and coming up with an effective strategy to win. The DoT meta was terrible just apply DoTs and wait for your opponent to burn resources trying to heal through them and the classes with the strongest heals/survivability wins otherwise known as Templars, magsorcs, and DKs. And you'd have a point with purge if there wasn't only 1 available and if it didn't cost 5k mag (while in 5 light) so probably 6 if in medium making it impractical.
And how many times can most mag builds roll? Exactly. There is a huge favouritism towards Stam builds and burst builds in this game, and your replies just mirrors that. Slowly die over 10 seconds, where you have plenty of time to react , unacceptable, die instantly, where a lot of the time you can't even react because of a quarter second to a second lag on everything, totally cool.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »@TheFM Yes, that is true about the DoTs vs Burst. But with DoTs you literally do nothing but apply it and wait for them to die. That is not fun nor is it skillful...
It is a different type of skill, you apply your dots then you have to survive, and if you build wrong your dots will do squat, or you wont be able to enough damage for it to be worth it if you dont stay alive, its a balancing act. I have never seen a community be so up in arms about the dot playstyle as in this game anywhere. In mmos there has ALWAYS been dot builds, and burst builds, and apparently dot is taboo and burst is holy in this game.
because I think the DoT builds arent nearly as skilled, plus nobody really had the ability to purify or heal through them other than select classes? you can heal through, dodge roll, and/or block burst? cant dodge roll a bleed effect, flame DoT you name it that has already been applied to you. I dont know burst requires timed skill and consistent attacking. DoTs kinda just force them onto Defense the whole time and like I said, you cant get those off of you etc
I could heal through the dot son my light and medium armor builds no issue, and im running some pretty basic setups. People just got triggered cuz they were finally being killed when they werent used to it imo. Why is it ok for magicka classes to have to use all their stam to dodge, block etc, and not ok for stam classes to use purges to use all their magicka? Its a MASSIVE double standard. You have about 10 seconds to respond to dots, you have 1 to respond to burst.
The point is to predict burst and respond preemptively. This is where experience comes into play and where the skill of the game used to be at knowing the matchups and coming up with an effective strategy to win. The DoT meta was terrible just apply DoTs and wait for your opponent to burn resources trying to heal through them and the classes with the strongest heals/survivability wins otherwise known as Templars, magsorcs, and DKs. And you'd have a point with purge if there wasn't only 1 available and if it didn't cost 5k mag (while in 5 light) so probably 6 if in medium making it impractical.
And how many times can most mag builds roll? Exactly. There is a huge favouritism towards Stam builds and burst builds in this game, and your replies just mirrors that. Slowly die over 10 seconds, where you have plenty of time to react , unacceptable, die instantly, where a lot of the time you can't even react because of a quarter second to a second lag on everything, totally cool.
Don't tell me magDK or magsorc lack burst... or that magplar or magden were weak in last N patches. Magblade and magcro - yes this 2 direly need a buff or a change how their abilities function.
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »People were dying to bleed dmg, oblivion dmg and defiles... So forums were like: NERF THOSE BECOUSE THEY KILL ME...
Well it just so happens that bleed dmg, WW, oblivion dmg, defile... were direct counter to tanks...
To me this is hilarious. Becouse people complain now that they dont have caunters to tanks...
Well maybe, just maybe if you (you as if the forum nerf-callers) did not "call for nerfs" this much you could still use those ?
Anyway, this is how short-sighted aproach and blindly calling for nerfs ends. With a broken combat-ecosystem...
Short sighted is the perfect description I would use for ur approach that bleeds and oblivion dmg counter the tank meta. And an approach like urs is most definitely a part of that broken combat ecosystem.
But he is right...
MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Don't tell me magDK or magsorc lack burst...
MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Don't tell me magDK or magsorc lack burst...
Don't tell me you're one of those who consider leap an execute. Molten whip proc is kind of burst, but nothing compared to sorc or templar who bothe have a ranged execute. We're leaving the original topic here, but hig burst damage is not the MagDk's strength.
StaticWave wrote: »I rock 6.4k weapon damage, 30k max stam, and 33k resist fully buffed in medium armor. Does that make me a tank?
Also please double check heavy armor passives and point out to me one single passive that boosts your damage. I will gladly give you 1 million in-game gold if you can do so.
The amount of resists does actually make you very hard to kill, a Tank. Also your weapon damage makes you a very strong dps. This makes me wonder if resists are too easy to achieve?
Healing and resists should be looked at. I would do something like this:
1) set bonuses should be depended of armor weight, less damage and more resists for heavy, more damage, less resist on medium etc. (this would affect crafted sets too, this is important)
2) armor weight should affect character speed (considerably, lets say light armor is a baseline, medium should be 1,5x and heavy 0,5x)
3) armor weight should play a bigger role in resistances, one way to achieve this is rework of armor values. Also maximum resistance should be higher and more difficult to achieve (like 40k)
4) healing should be modified in pvp areas to reflect the DOT change (no change needed outside PVP, this means balancing PVP separately from PVE)
5) Armor passives should be reworked to give better bonuses and widen the gap between armor weights
General changes
1: Nerf the healing - You nerfed most of the damage.
StaticWave wrote: »I rock 6.4k weapon damage, 30k max stam, and 33k resist fully buffed in medium armor. Does that make me a tank?
Also please double check heavy armor passives and point out to me one single passive that boosts your damage. I will gladly give you 1 million in-game gold if you can do so.
The amount of resists does actually make you very hard to kill, a Tank. Also your weapon damage makes you a very strong dps. This makes me wonder if resists are too easy to achieve?
Healing and resists should be looked at. I would do something like this:
1) set bonuses should be depended of armor weight, less damage and more resists for heavy, more damage, less resist on medium etc. (this would affect crafted sets too, this is important)
2) armor weight should affect character speed (considerably, lets say light armor is a baseline, medium should be 1,5x and heavy 0,5x)
3) armor weight should play a bigger role in resistances, one way to achieve this is rework of armor values. Also maximum resistance should be higher and more difficult to achieve (like 40k)
4) healing should be modified in pvp areas to reflect the DOT change (no change needed outside PVP, this means balancing PVP separately from PVE)
5) Armor passives should be reworked to give better bonuses and widen the gap between armor weights
MartiniDaniels wrote: »
Don't tell me magDK or magsorc lack burst...
Don't tell me you're one of those who consider leap an execute. Molten whip proc is kind of burst, but nothing compared to sorc or templar who bothe have a ranged execute. We're leaving the original topic here, but hig burst damage is not the MagDk's strength.