PSA - STOP THE WEREWOLF/VAMPIRE GRIEIFING - Want to be a were/vamp? Think again!

LadyChaos · April 2014

it shouldn't be easy, no, but if it's PvE intentionally blocking other player progression or access to content is temp/perma bannable in about every MMO, and should be reported. If after mass reports they don't get warned/banned lobby to get quest changed IMO.

EQ 1/2 didn't crack down on this hard enough until it was a method to ban gold farmers/sellers without proving they sold offline, but it's pretty standard to complain another player is intentionally blocking access to game content you paid for, (in PvE, PvP is different).

Amaylia · April 2014

KerinKor wrote: »

TL;DR of ZOS' latest statement:

We're 'monitoring' but not doing anything in spite of the fact that this is griefing pure and simple .. what else would you call blackmailing someone "pay up we we'll make sure you can't get a kill"? .. so go off and find some other spawn point .. of course those exist that aren't camped, /rolleyes.

ZOS, your response is pitiful, it gives a green light to those intent on extorting gold from others and sets a wonderful precedent .. the effect on the community is terrible and will only get worse now you've made your position clear.

Me, I couldn't care less about becoming either of these creatures, I never did in the TES games, but on principal I think your stance is appalling.

Excuse me if I am missing something, but why do you think that this is their stance on the issue?

I recall a ZOS representative stating in the first three pages to report players who are griefing, which leads me to believe that they are attempting to do something about it. They might be collecting a list for now to perform bans later, or they may decide to just have the developers fix the issue in some other systematic way, they could also be waiting on management to define a sanctioned policy for this issue.

I don't think the community is informed on what they are doing to fix the issue, but they have definitely conveyed to the community that they have taken interest in collecting reports and data on the offending player accounts.

In the meant time, they are giving advice for a temporary workaround. This is an attempt to be helpful while reminding us that they haven't forgotten about the issue -- despite the hold up on whatever the internal issue may be. Personally, I am confident that it is in no way meant as a green light to those who are griefing, Maybe that doesn't mean anything, but if it does, then I hope this helps clear up any misunderstanding.

Elder Scrolls Online is only two weeks into launch and with a large player base! It is almost certain that they have a lot to deal with at the moment, and while I know that isn't comforting or assuring, it is something we should be understanding of.

Everyone paid money, but at the same time, we can't ask them to do the impossible nor can we dictate what priority or order that they resolve their issues in. Right now, the most positive thing we can do is just be patient and report griefers as they requested.

Shuk · April 2014

LadyChaos wrote: »

but it's pretty standard to complain another player is intentionally blocking access to game content you paid for, (in PvE, PvP is different).

That's precisely the problem. Players have whined themselves out of the opportunity to have PvP-based resolutions based on much the same sentiment illustrated in this thread. People run into a player-created challenge in an MMO, and they rant about how unfair it all is.... and want mechanics changed to address this supposed 'unfairness' despite the fact that there are numerous other opportunities and methods available for attaining their goal. But no, having to put forth a bit of extra effort - or even god-forbid WAIT until another opportunity comes along - is anathema!

Zuun · April 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

JasonConstantine wrote: »

My only issue is the imbalance of spawns. Seems WW are spaning almost nightly, while vamps are one maybe 2 nights a week. This needs to be dealt with. We have a Vampire guild of over 125 active members and we recruit daily. The main complaint is lack of spawns. We go out during every night cycle and search in order to get our members bitten, its pretty sad that in the last 4 days not a single member of our parties has been a spawn or even seen mention of one in Zone chat.

It seems by my estimation there is a 3 to 1 ratio right now of WW to Vampires, that's a MASSIVE imbalance for a game like this. Something needs to be done to try and even out the ranks a bit. Their are THOUSANDS of members of the fighters guild in game, seems like the numbers of WW are over 1000 as well. Of the 5 Vampire guilds we associate with in game each has only 100 or so members. Such imbalance is due to the rarity of the Bloodfiend spawns.

The other issues we seem to be having is total lack of any way of telling when anything will spawn. This "Moon Phase" stuff is pure player fiction. I have personally seen WW and Bloodfiends in the same night, as well the night i got my Vampirism from an NPC, a friend 5 minutes later got WW from an NPC in the same zone. I am not saying we should know spawn location, but I do think their should be some form of way to tell what is going to spawn on a particular night. The only thing you guys have said (Zenimax) is they are 100% Random.

To me random is just that ... 100% random they can spawn at night anywhere in the appropriate zones. If their are "spawn points" as players keep saying they are hardly random.

Can we get some for of clarification on the following things:

1. Do in game moon phases exist and do they affect the spawns.
2. Are the spawns truly 100% random or are their spawn points.
3. What will be done about the imbalance of spawns.

Thanks

THIS! Please ZOS, pretty please with sugar on tiop, COMMUNICATE with us on this issue.

I am wanting to know this as well! If this type of info was actually obtainable in a fashion that doesn't seem unrealiable, then I wouldn't need a dev to tell me. I could just figure it out, however there doesn't seem to be any consistency.

Dax · April 2014

There's nothing to stop people passing on the bite they pay for, whatever happens within a month they'll be so many vamps/ww in the game that it wont be profitable for anyone to camp anywho.

First time I sold my bite for 25k, this time I only got 15k (vamp). I doubt I'll get more then 10k next time and at that point it's not really worth the effort.

I understand your frustration, but I don't think it's worth the support/dev time fixing something that's going to fix itself within a few short months (at the most) anyway.

LadyChaos · April 2014

Shuk wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

but it's pretty standard to complain another player is intentionally blocking access to game content you paid for, (in PvE, PvP is different).

That's precisely the problem. Players have whined themselves out of the opportunity to have PvP-based resolutions based on much the same sentiment illustrated in this thread. People run into a player-created challenge in an MMO, and they rant about how unfair it all is.... and want mechanics changed to address this supposed 'unfairness' despite the fact that there are numerous other opportunities and methods available for attaining their goal. But no, having to put forth a bit of extra effort - or even god-forbid WAIT until another opportunity comes along - is anathema!

I might be misunderstanding your point of view on this, but this specific blockage they are upset about is in a PvE zone. It's not in Cyrodiil. Vampire and Warewolve lines are not the property of PvP. Entire groups of people intentionally blocking player progression and exposure to content they have every right to, is not only ethically wrong, but counter EULA behavior.

And I have no desire nor care to get either line personally, but if I did, I would expect to have the same chance every other person, who also wants it, does. I would be just as upset, because it's a EULA break, not because I wasn't able to get it. We have rules for a reason, it's not about fair, it's about rights to the same game content as the rest of the paying customers.

No one group has more rights than others to determine who is, or is not worthy of participating in game content, only who is worthy to play with their group in it.

ThreeEyedCrow · April 2014

I think "griefing" is a bit extreme especially as someone who played Lineage2, Asheron Call, Vanguard and a number of other open world PVP games. Heck at release in Vanguard a PK could not just prevent you from doing ANYTHING in game but they could literally cause you to lose levels (XP minues penalty on death). I h ad friends in WoW that wanted some rare spawn that would sit there for a week waiting for the spawn at the right time.

A rare spawn being killed, in traditional MMO terms, is not really griefing.

The other thing I see is people acting entitled because they want something and they want it NOW and they don't want to have to wait. The Vamp and WW quests were designed for a certain level. They are listed as lvl42 quests. Yet you have a lot of players level 12-22 that want to be WW or Vamp NOW and they complain they can't get it instantly even when they game isn't even designed to let them get it at that low level.

I understand its frustrating but seems like an EXTREME overreaction by some people because they want something RIGHT NOW.

The only thing I view as breaking ToS is people saying they will sell a bite then just taking the money and running.

LadyChaos · April 2014

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

A rare spawn being killed, in traditional MMO terms, is not really griefing.

It is griefing if the only reason to kill it is to keep anyone else from getting it. It's about the definition of griefing.

Invisioblack · April 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

We are continuing to monitor vampire and werewolf spawn availability. We have a few suggestions that may help those of you who are on the hunt (some of which are mentioned in this thread.)
There are multiple spawn points at any given time during the availability period for each. We encourage seeking them out, especially if you see that one is being camped.

Some people are giving away bites for free. Keep an eye out for those opportunities, and if you are able, consider paying it forward for the next person. The more the community comes together to combat those who are griefing, the less viable the griefing and price gouging will be.

Join a guild that provides free vampire and werewolf bites to its members.

If you're in an instance that is very crowded during the availability period, try relogging to be placed in a different instance.

My guild gives out Vampire bites for free. @Invisioblack‌ IG...
or bloodfiend.guildportal.com

We do not believe in charging so that you can join our Family.

ThreeEyedCrow · April 2014

LadyChaos wrote: »

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

A rare spawn being killed, in traditional MMO terms, is not really griefing.

It is griefing if the only reason to kill it is to keep anyone else from getting it. It's about the definition of griefing.

I disagree about it "preventing" you from getting it. At most it is just preventing you from killing a single spawn.

They spawn all over. Every night they have been up I have found pairs unattended in the wild before anyone else. Its not -that- hard to find spawns before they get killed.

You are right it is about semantics. There is no objective or even an agreed upon operational definition for the term "griefing". Its entirely subjective.

To me, griefing is prevent you from doing anything in game like what can happen in open world PVP with few or no safe zones.

To me, killing the Bloodfiend is no more griefing than say me going into Cyrodill and wanting to get a skyshard in enemy territory and getting killed every time I try to get that skyshard.

They are indeed "preventing me" from doing what I want to do in game (get all Cyrodill skyshards).

Anyway we can agree to disagree , cheers

ZunaRoath · April 2014

Is there any EU guild that gives werewolf bites for free?

I'm so tired of searching, seven nights and nothing, like 20 players camping in the spawn points, it's almost impossible to get hitten before the mob killed. A friend saw a Bloodfiend today, and the people killed him.

If there is a EU guild that gives werewolf bites for free, I would join them, and when I have the ww bite hability, I would give ww bites for free too. Well... If I get bitten, and I'm not in a ww guild, I'll give the bites free, just for roleplaying. Would you really pay for a disease in real life?...

I thank ZOS for their monitoring in this situation. You could make this a bit more like getting a quest to encounter a ww or vamp, or the people who are already a ww or vamp can't see these mobs so they can't kill them, or how someone said in this post: making these mobs allies for that players, so they can't hit them. Thank you ZOS.

Thanks.

Haboom · April 2014

For anyone that used PayPal to buy a bite, just use the features of PayPal to get your money back as ingame transactions such as this are not covered by PayPal terms and services.
Just tell PaylPal that someone stole your account. You get your money back, get bitten and pull one over stupid scammers.

WraithAzraiel · April 2014

Haboom wrote: »

For anyone that used PayPal to buy a bite, just use the features of PayPal to get your money back as ingame transactions such as this are not covered by PayPal terms and services.
Just tell PaylPal that someone stole your account. You get your money back, get bitten and pull one over stupid scammers.

You're not helping, go play with your trains.

JasonConstantine · April 2014

We have a very large guild with over 20 members that have the ability to give bites. Total we have over 150 members who are very happy. We DO NOT CHARGE, and we never will. Message @Kuthel in game for an invite

BenjaminKacher_ESO · April 2014

This is too funny... stop bothering the admins with this nonsense and let them get back to solving real problems like the massive amount of botting in starting areas and items/skill points that go missing.

Korah_Eaglecry · April 2014

BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »

This is too funny... stop bothering the admins with this nonsense and let them get back to solving real problems like the massive amount of botting in starting areas and items/skill points that go missing.

So in other words. Let people continue to grief? Hmmm sounds like you have something to lose if they were to step in. And it wouldnt be bug fixes.

Anoteros · April 2014

allow us some open world pvp with pvp flag toggle.
Carebear ESO is dull.

Johnny_NO_skillz · April 2014

BenjaminKacher_ESO wrote: »

This is too funny... stop bothering the admins with this nonsense and let them get back to solving real problems like the massive amount of botting in starting areas and items/skill points that go missing.

Oh I'm sorry - 18.5k views on this thread and it's still not a "real" problem?

There are plenty of threads about botting and what needs to be done about it - perhaps you should look there.

shuriken39b16_ESO · April 2014

Anoteros wrote: »

allow us some open world pvp with pvp flag toggle.
Carebear ESO is dull.

Obviously this game is not for you. Try your luck by searching for some open world pvp games.

warlockcoub17_ESO · April 2014

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

It is the playerbase that undermines it.

It's also the tester's job to find these exploits and solve them before they become a real problem post-release.

I was in the beta, a lot of the "exploit" behavior that is happening now, wasn't seen or thought of in the beta as far as I knew of. Or at least in the areas I was in.

Hardline907 · April 2014

warlockcoub17_ESO wrote: »

CrimsonThomas wrote: »

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

It is the playerbase that undermines it.

It's also the tester's job to find these exploits and solve them before they become a real problem post-release

I was in the beta, a lot of the "exploit" behavior that is happening now, wasn't seen or thought of in the beta as far as I knew of. Or at least in the areas I was in.

You're in the BETA, you're supposed to be on your best behavior =\ how could anyone not see that/this type of behavior coming? Granted I bet they did but still.. how? And why didn't they take precautions just in case?! I've been trying to get bit for a week now but the damn campers are always there, and regardless of how many I snag in a screen shot more will come to fill their place.

robert · April 2014

I think it would be cool for ZOS to add the Dawn Guard faction. Only the untainted could be members and all werewolf and vampire players would be PVP flagged and vice versa.

This would add a very interesting bit of sand to the gameplay, especially for role players and the like.

LawfulEvil · April 2014

These add PvP things are silly. It would add more problems then there already are. Cyrodiil cover most PvP needs no reason to muck up the rest of the game with it.

robert · April 2014

LawfulEvil wrote: »

These add PvP things are silly. It would add more problems then there already are. Cyrodiil cover most PvP needs no reason to muck up the rest of the game with it.

I don't know if they are silly.

I think it would, as I said, add some interesting depth to the RP.

Of course, if ZOS were to add such a feature, they could add a quest line for an infected player to get cured, or for a Dawn Guard player to leave the service.

I think it would be a nice addition.

LadyChaos · April 2014

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

LadyChaos wrote: »

ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »

A rare spawn being killed, in traditional MMO terms, is not really griefing.

It is griefing if the only reason to kill it is to keep anyone else from getting it. It's about the definition of griefing.

I disagree about it "preventing" you from getting it. At most it is just preventing you from killing a single spawn.

They spawn all over. Every night they have been up I have found pairs unattended in the wild before anyone else. Its not -that- hard to find spawns before they get killed.

You are right it is about semantics. There is no objective or even an agreed upon operational definition for the term "griefing". Its entirely subjective.

To me, griefing is prevent you from doing anything in game like what can happen in open world PVP with few or no safe zones.

To me, killing the Bloodfiend is no more griefing than say me going into Cyrodill and wanting to get a skyshard in enemy territory and getting killed every time I try to get that skyshard.

They are indeed "preventing me" from doing what I want to do in game (get all Cyrodill skyshards).

Anyway we can agree to disagree , cheers

It's is not about preventing you from doing what you want, it is blocking you from your rights to the content for no other reason but to grief. You can want to be in a guild, you don't have a right to it, you can want to travel from point A to point B in cyrodiil, but you don't have a right to safe travel in Cyrodiil... You do have a right to a reasonable chance to access the paid content you purchased.

They aren't complaining because it's just being killed in the normal flow of game-play. They are complaining because some guilds are organizing to interfere with the normal process of people being bitten, weather they are camping 1,2,3 all locations is just a matter of how far they are doing it.

Any player or group intentionally blocking you from you paid content that you have a right to, not just a desire, is "disruptive" and "interferes with the normal flow of gameplay"

There are specific terms:

Zenimax TOS wrote:

http://www.zenimax.com/legal_terms_us

8. Rules of Conduct

Except as prohibited by applicable law, ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to the Services. As noted above, this could result because (i) Your information is untrue, inaccurate, not complete or incomplete; (ii) Your activities infringe on or are suspected to infringe on another’s rights or any intellectual property; (iii) ZeniMax in its sole discretion determined that You or Your Account reflects inappropriate content; or (iv) You or activities taken under or with Your Account violate the Terms of Service. Other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.
You agree not to use any Service to:Engage in disruptive behavior in chat areas, game areas, forums, or any other area or aspect of the Services. Examples of disruptive behavior include, but is not limited to, conduct which interferes with the normal flow of gameplay or dialogue within a Service, vulgar language, abusiveness, hitting the return key repeatedly or inputting large images so the screen goes by too fast to read, use of excessive shouting [all caps] in an attempt to disturb other users, "spamming" or flooding [posting repetitive text], commercial postings, solicitations and advertisements, posting advertising or promotional messaging, chain letters, pyramid schemes, or other commercial activities.

Caduryn · April 2014

Looking for a EU Server Vampire Guild that bite for free, pls pm me.

grabbintrionb14_ESO · April 2014

I'm tempted to make some quick gold by selling vampire bites that I don't actually have, but I'll save the scams for EVE Online

Thechemicals · April 2014

Youll eventually become a vamp or wolf and then get owned in pvp lol.

wayfarerb14_ESO · April 2014

/sigh
Never mind.

aftershox · April 2014

ZOS_TristanK wrote: »

Hi there, folks. Thank you for letting us know. We will investigate exactly what's happening here based on reports and tickets that you submit. In order to help us investigate more quickly, when you see an incident, please include the phrase "werewolf/vampire camping" in your ticket.

Thanks glad you're working on it. I've just done the Draven quest line and I was disappointed to learn Evermore zone chat was getting spammed with invitations and such like to get bitten and some dodgy goings on. I usually PVE with zone chat for such spoilerfic reasons anyway.