It was a toss up between this or scalecaller. You definitely cannot do them without a mic

Fang Lair imo remains the hardest hardmode on live. It's the only one where RNG plays a part that puts elements of the fight beyond any players control, during the 2nd phase with the constant ghost walls where you're never sure where the gaps are going to be, potentially putting you in lose-lose situations where you have nowhere to go.

I would say the real HM is zos trying to sell these things.

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Fang Lair imo remains the hardest hardmode on live. It's the only one where RNG plays a part that puts elements of the fight beyond any players control, during the 2nd phase with the constant ghost walls where you're never sure where the gaps are going to be, potentially putting you in lose-lose situations where you have nowhere to go.

FL is a pretty straightforward HM. It's brutally unforgiving at first, but once you get used to the cadence of the fight, it's not bad at all. People tunnel-vision and don't notice the wall. But if you put your primary focus on the wall, it's not that hard to avoid. The times when I die are the times when I lose focus--when something else distracts me. But it definitely does take some getting used to.

The two biggest problems that I see when I run this with less experienced players is (1) lack of discipline on boss health during the second phase and (2) lack of coordination for the golden circles.

For the first problem, the Colossi spawn at 40, 30, 20, and 10% boss health. A lot of people just blindly parse on the boss and end up with two Colossi running around. Which then causes distractions. Which then leads to wall deaths. Paying attention to the boss health means you can anticipate when a Colossus spawns and being careful not to over-DPS the boss (it's not a DPS race) prevents unnecessary chaos and lapses of attention.

As for the golden circles, most people don't realize that there is a pattern to their spawn location. Specifically, if you divide the room into 4 rectangular quadrants, there will always be exactly one golden circle per quadrant. Within each quadrant, its position is totally random. But each quadrant is guaranteed to have exactly one, so just assign each player to each quadrant. Make sure everyone starts to make their way back to their quadrant before each golden circle phase and you'll never again run into the problem of two people running for the same circle or someone not being able to get to their circle in time.

Kadoin wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

It was a toss up between this or scalecaller. You definitely cannot do them without a mic

I did it without mic in PUG group. I actually liked that the dungeon could be completed despite the overall DPS not being high as long as the healer and tank are strong enough.

Too bad ZOS loves DPS checks in the dungeon designs instead these days...

Hes talking about hard mode on the final boss.

Other:

Being able to log into the game.

My opinion may be a little skewed. The first couple nights my current group progged this, we made the mistake of doing so blind. Eventually we figured out the issues and got a system down for who moves the block, who draws the blood orb, etc. I think the night we cleared we only just then learned how the healing debuff worked exactly. As melee I didn't like dealing with the tethers or seeing the healer forced out of range of the tank.

Frostvault is kind of a pita too but only for how gimmicky it is. Not hard, just annoying.

The rest I don't think are too hard. SCP can be obnoxious with the rng of the safety synergies (the shield synergy should not overlap with the 'free ally' stone synergy as often as I've seen it do lol).

fang lair simply because it can be difficult to see the damn ghosts

People must have not run it or are unaware of the HM mechanics to reply anything other than Moongrave Fane. No other HM requires that level of coordination and communication.

VSP in the first two weeks when all the telegraphs were broken/ missing.

I'll admit, having all the Trifecta achievements in them, it's difficult for me to look at them as I once did, as they're no longer as difficult as I once felt they were when I first stepped foot into them. This can be due to bug fixes, nerfs, buffs, etc., but I'd say it's mainly due to the fact that I've just done them all so many times where it's just muscle memory at this point.
However, I'd probably say the Dragon Bones DLC was the very first DLC that "wow'd" me with difficulty and mechanics at the time of its release. Don't get me wrong, IC was pretty challenging when it was first released as well, but myself and many others were pretty noob back then. The DPS and understanding of the game that I and others had back then, compared to what we had when Dragon Bones released, is like night and day. So the fact that Dragon Bones DLC still challenged myself and others speaks volumes. Namely, vFL HM.
vSC HM was difficult at first because of the bugs (such as still getting 1 shot even when taking your synergy), and the 1 shots from the statues were more random than they are now (much easier to predict now, and Code's addon I think alerts you when they'll shoot). But vFL HM? Yeah, that was the first fight that was properly set up to prevent and punish people for trying to skip mechanics with high DPS. Could you skip mechanics on regular Vet? Yes, and there was an achievement for it. But skipping mechanics on HM? Good luck. You'd be swarmed with Bone Colossi. It was challenging for the tanks first time around too, especially if those shalks got a hold on you. The execute phase topped it off with those 1 shot walls. Again, I'm speaking about it's release, not how easy it is almost 2 years after its initial release. It took me a while to get into the mindset of not focusing on the boss, and instead constantly moving my camera around and focus on walls more than tanking the dragon.
vFL HM just did a lot of things right. Various mechanics, anti-skip mechanics, a blend between constantly damage and one shots, no BS filler mechanics that make the boss untargetable/immune (like the Indrick fight in vMoS), etc. I consider it the vCR +3 of dungs because it's challenging due to the fact that there's various things you have to look out for, with minimal 1 shot mechanics. While I love vSC HM, I consider it the vAS +2 of dungs because mechanically, there's very little to it, it's just challenging for some groups because what little mechanics there are, usually 1-2 shot you.
I also want to point out that I think the lore in vFL is overlooked due to the fact that it's just a large and bland looking map to most. But I felt the lore made the fight that much more enjoyable. You release the souls of the bosses prior, help each other break veils through different realms to approach the final boss, and then work together to save and assist one another from a powerful foe who eventually fuses with the dragon. While the dungeon as a whole might not be my favorite out there, the final boss fight of vFL HM is still my favorite dung fight in ESO to this day.

I'm very surprised at FL leading the vote right now since I find it to be the easiest hardmode out of this list by far. There is so little damage (I find all the damage so easy to avoid in any role), and the ghost walls and other oneshots I just don't struggle with at all. As tank I just need to focus on boss and walls, and as DD or healer I just need to focus on adds and walls. Damage from the boss is so easily mitigatable as tank and there's no other real source of damage for the other roles. The room is massive which helps me focus a lot more too, tiny spaces to work with overwhelm me I think.

Fights with a lot of damage/things going on are a lot harder for me. MHK has always been really hard for me, but the only role I've done it as is tank. So much CC from the boss combined with the need to block or dodge pretty much all attacks, the fact that there are several major enemies to manage puts more pressure on resources, etc. Dragging the boss through the shock wardens has always felt clunky too.

I feel like no one else thinks MHK is as hard as I do though, I might be doing things wrong