How Catering to casuals has affected PvP....

xeha_arwen11 · September 2019

MajBludd wrote: »

Casuals kill gaming. They want to be at the top and whine when they aren't due to lack of experience in the game.

When they see somebody 1vX they think it's the sets, the class,etc. They make the same build, get beat, and cry for nerfs or cry cheating or exploits. They are the toxic part of the community that drains the fun out of a game for the rest of the player base.

The only people I've seen whine are the "elites". The only people I've seen cry "nerf" are the "elites". They spread toxicity, look down on anyone who doesn't act like ESO is a job, and they think they're superior to everyone. You elites also like to spread lies about casuals and blame casuals for everything wrong with the game. It isn't the fault of casuals, that's for sure. Most casuals I've met are people who just like to play ESO to have fun. To quest. To enjoy the game in a relaxing manner.

Casuals aren't killing the game. Toxic elitists who desperately cling to every exploit and cheat they get their hands on are killing the game. Toxic elitists who abuse others are killing the game. Toxic elitists who scream nerf over and over are killing the game.

Casul · September 2019

xeha_arwen11 wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Casuals kill gaming. They want to be at the top and whine when they aren't due to lack of experience in the game.

When they see somebody 1vX they think it's the sets, the class,etc. They make the same build, get beat, and cry for nerfs or cry cheating or exploits. They are the toxic part of the community that drains the fun out of a game for the rest of the player base.

The only people I've seen whine are the "elites". The only people I've seen cry "nerf" are the "elites". They spread toxicity, look down on anyone who doesn't act like ESO is a job, and they think they're superior to everyone. You elites also like to spread lies about casuals and blame casuals for everything wrong with the game. It isn't the fault of casuals, that's for sure. Most casuals I've met are people who just like to play ESO to have fun. To quest. To enjoy the game in a relaxing manner.

Casuals aren't killing the game. Toxic elitists who desperately cling to every exploit and cheat they get their hands on are killing the game. Toxic elitists who abuse others are killing the game. Toxic elitists who scream nerf over and over are killing the game.

Define Elitist for me please, I see a lot of people throw that term around (same with casual). Just curious if our definitions match up.

Lasinagol · September 2019

This seems like a good post to put my "casual meta spammable" build for the sorc...
Necropotence, Slimecraw, Crafty Alfiq
Bound Aegis, Magelight, Twilight Matriarch, Elemental Weapons, Rune Cage + Negate
Other bar is flexible with an execute or rapids but Crit Surge is necessary...
Roto is casually simple. Light Attack, Psijic skill that buffs light attacks...this setup kills potatoes WITH ONLY LIGHT ATTACKS...it is when the tomatoes show up that things get dicey...

MasterSpatula · September 2019

This... is a really bad take.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · September 2019

Purpaleslushii wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@SkerKro I think it may be more of a difference in opinion on the definition of casual. To me a casual is not somebody who logs in everyday and pays a sub, or buys crowns, etc.

To me a casual is the guy or gal who logs in once a week, maybe 2x for an hr, or when the new dlc drops, stands around a way shrine in their newest costume, with the latest apex mount, and could careless about the performance of the game as long as they look cool in their new 30k crown store exclusive house.

If you run in a group in pvp I could careless, if you solo I could careless. What I care about are the dev's making changes based off of input from a casual player base, (see my definition for casual), that kills gameplay for those that have put a large amount of time into the game. That could be pve or pvp.

It's like a temp coming into your work place and demanding the whole SOP be changed to suit their needs.

This is the best reply yet. I agree 100% this was the point I was trying to get across.

Don’t like casuals? Go find another game then.
Buh bye!

Joy_Division · September 2019

Zergs were around - everywhere - since Beta, so the idea that it wasn't until ZOS put some proc sets in the game that people all of a sudden said, "screw it" and decided to faction stack everything is crazy. Do a forum search on Brandon South-Ga or better yet Columbo.

Mr_Walker · September 2019

I think that's the longest figjam I've ever read....

Canned_Apples · September 2019

have you not seen the current meta?
d-swing d-swing onslaught executioner.
most casual friendly rotation ever. zero skill zero planning.

Sylosi · September 2019

If you don't like zergs, and don't like a game catering to casuals to some extent, then don't play RvR designed for large scale PvP in a themepark MMORPG where the biggest part of the playerbase are varying degrees of 'casual'.

Instead play an actual competitive PvP game with leagues, MMR, a complete focus on PvP, lots of people tryharding, etc.

Of course in those to be really good, you will actually have to be... really good (unlike this game).

You won't be able to pretend to yourself like you can in ESO with its tiny PvP population and cheese that carries so, so, hard. Where the bar is set so low some consider beating players who have played a fraction of the time they have, are in the wrong builds for small scale, have little experience of small scale, etc to be "skilled".

maddiniiLuna · September 2019

Hmm... Lot of people talking about how strong they are or were and how they destroy everything, being a beast in Cyrodiil - By the way: Spamming dizzy swings has nothing to do with skill.

But here's my point: You all soooo good at what you do, why i have i never heard of any of you guys in Cyrodiil for the years that i'm playing PvP? Where exactly is all this skill? Am i just going the wrong places or?

Okay that was that.

As for the OP. You can not assume, that everybody who is in a group is automatically a zergling. Some people just don't want to be alone. If you prefer to be alone man that's perfectly fine - be alone. Nobody cares. Just don't be assuming, that everybody is like you.

Hallothiel · October 2019

Played pvp solo for a couple of years beforeI found decent guild.

Not like the OP but as a nightblade who snuck around, mainly defending & dying. Lots of dying. No killing. As this pvp was all new to me.

Then joined guild. They helped with build & advice, so got better. So now run with them when I can in a group - mainly because it is more fun that way, we co-ordinate & do things more effectively - but also make each other laugh with comments & discussions & jokes whilst seiging a keep.

Playing solo now just does not do it for me. But then I’m not trying to prove anything, as I don’t need to be ‘epic’ in a bloody game to massage my ego.

And have never understood the difference between ‘group’ (as encouraged by the game set up) and ‘zerg’.

Is it a matter of which side? My side groups, the enemy obviously zergs.....😆😆

Vapirko · October 2019

Most notably a massive increase in nerf threads. I just said this in another thread, but new PvPers especially are coming into a game that has already day had the ceiling lowered and now ask for tons of nerfs on top of it. It’s absurd. I think for me it peaked yesterday when I saw a thread asking for the iron ateonach dummy to be nerfed. No joke. People want roll dodge nerfed, they want leap nerfed, they want shields nerfed, they want heals nerfed, they want stealth nerfed, they want onslaught nerfed, they want spammables nerfed, they want Templars, sorcs and dks nerfed. I mean it really never ends.

Razzledazzle_dar · October 2019

I'm disappointed in our game's community for the people that are saying things about how I and others ruin gamimg because I play casually. I have played ESO since launch and always been a casual player. I respect everyone's right to their opinions, sure, but I can't believe how awful I supposedly am just because I enjoy my game being low key and casual.

This comment is more directec at those attacking casual players in this thread in general. I personally leave PvP to the people who are more serious/elite with their playstyle.

I play because I love ES, the lore, and the story. If this is somehow ruining the game for other players, that sounds pretty petty to me.

WeylandLabs · October 2019

Fyi - I don't play anymore but do you guys know that there's not one class rep that's a dedicated PvP'r. They all do test dummies parses, and that's how your game is balanced now. 😂

And ya maybe they might dabble in a few PvP fights in bgs or group open world. But I'm 💯% correct that none of them ever 1vX'd anybody.

Sad state of ESO right now.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · October 2019

I've yet to see any MMORPG close down because it over pandered to "casuals".

Wildstar closed down because it never recovered from pandering almost exclusively (at launch) to "hardcore" players.

And every MMORPG I have ever played has been made immeasurably worse by pandering to the never-ending whines of PvPers.

All The Best

Ffastyl · October 2019

I started PvPing in 1.4, with my fondest memories from 1.5. Among the many things Wrobel completely botched and tore out with 1.6, dynamic ultimate generation was the most impactful to 1vX. The concept was you gained ultimate by performing combat related actions: take damage, deal damage, heal, block, dodge, etc. Where the implementation faltered is in rewarding a larger than normal chunk of ultimate for crits, and we all know how absurdly high crit rates are in ESO. In dungeons a tank would get their ultimate up by the final boss while a dps would get their ultimate 3 times a fight. Instead of fixing that, Wrobel replaced it with static ultimate generation.

Now, how does it tie into 1vX? There was no cooldown on ultimate gains. Say you earned 2 ultimate per block. You block animation cancelled attacks from 5 players, that's 10 attacks per second and 20 ultimate per second. The more people you fought, the faster your ultimate generated. It was at the point where at 1v10+ you could have 100% uptime on something as expensive as Banner of Might and with the aid of a chokepoint, 1v50s happened (and the 1 won). I was on the 50 side of one of those.

GhostofDatthaw · October 2019

Joy_Division wrote: »

Zergs were around - everywhere - since Beta, so the idea that it wasn't until ZOS put some proc sets in the game that people all of a sudden said, "screw it" and decided to faction stack everything is crazy. Do a forum search on Brandon South-Ga or better yet Columbo.

Yeah this look at back some and I mean old it's absolute chaos. And somehow lag free.

Somewhere along the line and I blame sypherpk and other really good players and streamers. Out of nothing they have done or even said. It's just everyone wants to be them. Everyone wants to be that 1vX God not realizing those are just extraordinary players.

Ysbriel · October 2019

The problem is that a lot of the players in this game are not as good as they think and claim they are, therefore NERF!!

Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face

Reistr_the_Unbroken · October 2019

Razzledazzle_dar wrote: »

I'm disappointed in our game's community for the people that are saying things about how I and others ruin gamimg because I play casually. I have played ESO since launch and always been a casual player. I respect everyone's right to their opinions, sure, but I can't believe how awful I supposedly am just because I enjoy my game being low key and casual.

This comment is more directec at those attacking casual players in this thread in general. I personally leave PvP to the people who are more serious/elite with their playstyle.

I play because I love ES, the lore, and the story. If this is somehow ruining the game for other players, that sounds pretty petty to me.

I’m also disappointed in the games community as well. Sometimes at least.

And this thread is one of those that honestly should be locked for bashing a group.

craybest · October 2019

this is a videogame, being casual is how you're supposed to play it.

Rikumaru · October 2019

I also play pretty much exclusively solo / duo in my time since 1.6. My problems with how ZOS has balanced this game isn't due to them focusing on the casual playerbase the most; I'm perfectly fine with that because after all, they are the majority. What really annoys me is how ZOS constantly try to shaft and nerf solo / small scalers every single patch since 1.6 to make it more and more unviable. They are actively working against the high end playerbase which is why so many good players (especially streamers) have quit over the years.

People wonder why most 1vXs or small scalers run around rocks and towers? That's because ZOS has nerfed solo / small scale so hard we are literally forced to do this in order to not just fall over and die. There was a time where you could actually beat good players while outnumbered while on a build just as strong as theirs or maybe even weaker.

FierceSam · October 2019

I’m still not sure how you would define a player as a casual, or, indeed, why you would want to separate them from uncasuals.

They’ve paid for the game just as you have.

From what I can see PvP in ESO has flatlined. Players need to be encouraged to play or there will be no PvP development.

Deriding and abusing players who are new to PvP doesn’t seem like a great way of building PvP numbers. Because, however you slice it, no one wants to play with bullies and abusers.

And saying “well I gut gud by being bullied” isn’t useful either.

Purpaleslushii · October 2019

Ffastyl wrote: »

I started PvPing in 1.4, with my fondest memories from 1.5. Among the many things Wrobel completely botched and tore out with 1.6, dynamic ultimate generation was the most impactful to 1vX. The concept was you gained ultimate by performing combat related actions: take damage, deal damage, heal, block, dodge, etc. Where the implementation faltered is in rewarding a larger than normal chunk of ultimate for crits, and we all know how absurdly high crit rates are in ESO. In dungeons a tank would get their ultimate up by the final boss while a dps would get their ultimate 3 times a fight. Instead of fixing that, Wrobel replaced it with static ultimate generation.

Now, how does it tie into 1vX? There was no cooldown on ultimate gains. Say you earned 2 ultimate per block. You block animation cancelled attacks from 5 players, that's 10 attacks per second and 20 ultimate per second. The more people you fought, the faster your ultimate generated. It was at the point where at 1v10+ you could have 100% uptime on something as expensive as Banner of Might and with the aid of a chokepoint, 1v50s happened (and the 1 won). I was on the 50 side of one of those.

These were the days man. Being rewarded for being outnumbered which actually gave you a fighting chance.

SipofMaim · October 2019

MajBludd wrote: »

Casuals kill gaming. They want to be at the top and whine when they aren't due to lack of experience in the game.

When they see somebody 1vX they think it's the sets, the class,etc. They make the same build, get beat, and cry for nerfs or cry cheating or exploits. They are the toxic part of the community that drains the fun out of a game for the rest of the player base.

Nah. Whiners who think they should always win and always get their way kill gaming. They're a small but persistent percentage of the population, and they're most noticeable when they're noobs or casuals because their demands are so ridiculous, but they're in every group. The demands get more sophisticated, but the underlying self-absorbed philosophy and low frustration threshold is the same.

I don't think all the complaining has as much impact on dev decisions as others seem to. But the toxicity definitely has impact on the community as a whole.

idk · October 2019

Just FYI for OP. The first 5 paragraphs are totally unrelated to the title. If you want us to know where you are coming from you still need to get to the point vs the life history approach used here. I say that to be kind because Zos would not waste their time trying to figure out when you are actually starting to say whatever it is you created this thread for. Makes sense considering all the threads created each day.

Kiralyn2000 · October 2019

MajBludd wrote: »

Casuals kill gaming. They want to be at the top and whine when they aren't due to lack of experience in the game.

"Casuals" don't care about "the top". They just want to hang out and play games.

'L33t d00ds' and tryhards, the ones who think they're elite even when they're not... that might be a better target for your rant. /eyeroll

ArchMikem · October 2019

Its hilarious. The last several gameplay changes were in reality catered to PvP, with PvE suffering for it. But then i find this thread and the hypocrisy is just thicc.

Y'all need to stop attacking the other. There is no PvP/PvE war, there is no one group "infecting" or killing the game. Stop trying to find an enemy in the community. ESO is not a PvE game and its not a PvP game. Its both.

Stop it. Get some help. And just play the damn game.

PizzaCat82 · October 2019

A big problem that ESO has is the only tools people have to get better at PVP or group dungeons are youtube videos and nice players that give them tips.

And since you're more likely to get kicked from a dungeon as soon as you join or killed before the first blow registers on your screen, its hard to determine what you could have done better in any situation.

ZOS needs to design the game to be more intuitive so that one person who knows what they're doing can't take down 5 people who don't. They might as well be AFK because unless you know the skills to use, the gear to wear, and the CP to invest in, you're already dead.

p00tx · October 2019

I think the funniest thing about this thread is that anyone in this community thinks the devs actually listen to any of us anymore, whether casual or otherwise.

Haven't you been paying attention? They have a "vision", and nothing any of us does or says is going to sway them from their "vision".

If you want to be mad at casuals for "ruining this game", then be mad at the real casuals: the devs who've played maybe 5 total hours over the span of their career and suddenly know what needs to be done for both PvP and PvE.

Kuramas9tails · October 2019

Cirantille wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

Casuals kill gaming. They want to be at the top and whine when they aren't due to lack of experience in the game.

When they see somebody 1vX they think it's the sets, the class,etc. They make the same build, get beat, and cry for nerfs or cry cheating or exploits. They are the toxic part of the community that drains the fun out of a game for the rest of the player base.

Ok
Excuse us for having a life outside of the game, like jobs, schools, family, friends, events happening in the real world.
So sorry for not being an elite, dedicated, hardcore PvP or PvE player.
Or whatever you wanna name us again

He wasn't bashing people BEING casuals.

He is bashing casuals who cry for nerfs/buffs and things being easier/handed to them. He's saying if someone can 1vX you in PVP that maybe it's not that their build need nerfing but that casuals need to understand that they are not as good as someone who is more skilled in PVP. A skilled PVPer SHOULD be able to 1vX instead of people crying for things to be nerfed because they can't counter it.

Example: Cast time on Ults. NOT NEEDED. The biggest ones that people complained about (DB and INCAP) were easily dodgable and easy to know when it will be used in a rotation so you can easily avoid it by knowing when the opponent will use the ult.

P.S. I will never forgive PC for getting Clever Alchemist nerfed.