How Catering to casuals has affected PvP....

DisgracefulMind

They're just milking the game for what it can give at this point; ESO will die with the next Elder Scrolls game, and I'm sure they know that. Prepare for a couple more years of the game getting ruined, long-term players leaving, and casual ruling.

MajBludd

@White wabbit if you sub and play as much as you say, I wouldn't call you casual. Also, I'm gonna need numbers and a spread sheet for the theory that casuals support this game @SkerKro

StormeReigns

MajBludd wrote: »

. Also, I'm gonna need numbers and a spread sheet for the theory that casuals support this game @SkerKro

Not how it works. I never made claims that Casuals did or didnt make ot break the game like you l, the op and others have done. So the burden of proof is on you. This is commonsense and common knowledge. To string it along further like you and the op has done just validating that you all are probably just sore losers and lost a random duel to some preteen who just picked up the game.

SirAndy

Belmara wrote: »

I think 2 posts aren't enough

That's why the OP made 3 ...

Major_Lag

VaranisArano wrote: »

The hilarious part about this thread is that 1vXing only survives as a playstyle due to "Casual" players.
(...)
Experienced, non-casual PVPers don't fall for that. They'll either avoid the 1vXer or fight them on a ground of their own choosing.

^ This. ^

As a general rule, you are not gonna be 1vXing experienced, skilled PvPers of roughly your own skill level (or better!). Not happening, especially if it's 1v4 or more.
If you can pull that off, then that just means your opponents weren't quite so skilled to begin with.

The great majority of "1vXing" or "small v X" that I'm seeing in Cyro involves solo farmers or smallscale farm groups, who go claim a resource and farm the defenders who try to retake it - at least until a large group (or another strong smallscale group) shows up and wipes the farmers.
Or they show up in front of a keep and never siege (and aren't serving as a distraction so that another group can siege the rear wall, either).

Then there's also the classic "pull enemy zerg into a keep tower and LoS while picking them off" trick; same principle.

PrimusNephilim

"Casuals kill gaming" "Casuals are toxic" What a bunch of BS. I've seen plenty of dedicated players who are "toxic", you see them running in dungeons looking for drops with that elitist attitude while leaving the noobie behind or leaving the whole group behind because YOU needed that one piece from the Boss drop (yeah, you know who you are)

Bad attitudes will kill any game experience. Its an MMO and different people will play different ways, just because their game play doesn't fit into your mold, doesn't mean those casuals are killing the game.

Besides, this casual gamer became a daily player who now plays both PvP & PvE and after 3 years of playing, has 18 toons, 16 which are fully leveled. Personally I hope the casuals keep coming, join a guild or two and add value to the ESO community.

Get over yourself man

MajBludd

@SkerKro never called for a nerf since I played this game and I sure dont have to show any kind of proof about my opinions. As most would say it's an opinion and not proof. It's what I've seen, and yes I've lost lots of duels, but never cried over it, I've won a few though.

StormeReigns

MajBludd wrote: »

@SkerKro never called for a nerf since I played this game and I sure dont have to show any kind of proof about my opinions. As most would say it's an opinion and not proof. It's what I've seen, and yes I've lost lots of duels, but never cried over it, I've won a few though.

Would be understandable if it was addressed as an opinion, although, have yet seen as such and seen it solely presented as facts. As seen all over the 1st page.

Kadoin

VaranisArano wrote: »

The hilarious part about this thread is that 1vXing only survives as a playstyle due to "Casual" players.

True, I've seen many streamers and players on these forums and they either never dent me or are always running in a group or zerg. When I see threads like this, it always makes me laugh because it's complete hypocritical nonsense. When I see the same players attack me on the forums, I simply laugh IRL and don't respond (I read the forums on break time anyway, so I need some comedy ). It's not even worth exposing them.

If anyone is truly good at the game and not stacking cheese, then the patches don't really do much to change it. All I see from the OP is that their easy mode got turned off, whether it was from a build or otherwise, and now they want to blame "casuals" for being able to take them on and crush them due to the game changing.

MajBludd

@SkerKro I think it may be more of a difference in opinion on the definition of casual. To me a casual is not somebody who logs in everyday and pays a sub, or buys crowns, etc.

To me a casual is the guy or gal who logs in once a week, maybe 2x for an hr, or when the new dlc drops, stands around a way shrine in their newest costume, with the latest apex mount, and could careless about the performance of the game as long as they look cool in their new 30k crown store exclusive house.

If you run in a group in pvp I could careless, if you solo I could careless. What I care about are the dev's making changes based off of input from a casual player base, (see my definition for casual), that kills gameplay for those that have put a large amount of time into the game. That could be pve or pvp.

It's like a temp coming into your work place and demanding the whole SOP be changed to suit their needs.

StormeReigns

MajBludd wrote: »

@SkerKro I think it may be more of a difference in opinion on the definition of casual. To me it isnt really a casual is not somebody who logs in everyday and pays a sub, or buys crowns, etc.

To me is not casual is the guy or gal who logs in once a week occasionally gets a few runs and dailies in and off doing their own thing and gone, but the jackasshats, since the jackasshats are found everywhere and found in every single group. These jerks, maybe 2x for an hr, or when the new dlc drops, stands around a way shrine in their newest costume, with the latest apex mount, and could careless about the performance of the game as long as they look cool in their new 30k crown store exclusive house.

If you run in a group in pvp I could careless, if you solo I could careless. What I care about are the dev's making changes based off of input from a jackasshat player base, (see my definition for jackasshat), that kills gameplay for those that have put a large amount of time into the game. That could be pve or pvp.

It's like a temp coming into your work place and demanding the whole SOP be changed to suit their needs.

Fix'd for clarity. What you are describing is far from any logical reasoning or definition is far from what is actually a casual. What you been describing in short and nicely are jerks. Jackasshats.

They claim what ever group they can to get attention and what they want, they infest all groups. To single out one group for the actions on a few loud mouth handfuls will make others look and be treated foolish. Slippery slope, but to try to throw wieght like and elitest against casuals who are not a part of the problem will end badly.

Purpaleslushii

MajBludd wrote: »

@SkerKro I think it may be more of a difference in opinion on the definition of casual. To me a casual is not somebody who logs in everyday and pays a sub, or buys crowns, etc.

To me a casual is the guy or gal who logs in once a week, maybe 2x for an hr, or when the new dlc drops, stands around a way shrine in their newest costume, with the latest apex mount, and could careless about the performance of the game as long as they look cool in their new 30k crown store exclusive house.

If you run in a group in pvp I could careless, if you solo I could careless. What I care about are the dev's making changes based off of input from a casual player base, (see my definition for casual), that kills gameplay for those that have put a large amount of time into the game. That could be pve or pvp.

It's like a temp coming into your work place and demanding the whole SOP be changed to suit their needs.

This is the best reply yet. I agree 100% this was the point I was trying to get across.

Sahidom

Here is a factual tale about player habits using World of Warcraft,

Before enchantments and heirlooms were changed. Players can play end-game enchantments on low level gear and heirlooms outperformed the best rare weapons than. This created the "twink" characters the trend to create these over performing characters became more, and more popular that soon over populated the PVP battlegrounds.

Then casual players joining the battlegrounds were slaughtered and eventually pushed back where these "twink" players would camp their spawn location while others completed the battleground win. The casual players turned to the "Zerg Strategy" in which the entire side would group together to push battleground objectives.

This same "Zerg Strategy" continued until it became the normal tactic in battlegrounds to counter "twink" characters in the battlegrounds except NOW more, and more players played their "twink" characters in the battlegrounds. The inevitable happened, not only the casual players but now the "twinks" had to use the same strategy to counter other zerging "twink" groups.

Do you see the trend?

You honestly cannot blame the casual players for ruining PVP activities; when over performing builds and set combinations over populate these activities than players must group up to counter these builds. ESO is experiencing the same dilemma as World of Warcraft, over performing builds are grouping together to counter other over performing builds that are supported by other over performing builds or shielded by non-experienced/casual players.

Only the die-hard and elite players that run with other over performing builds will co-exist in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds; except the occasional casual player who wanted to earn AP. Consider this a prediction where the PVP dynamics and intended or unintended power scale will not offer a place for anyone who doesn't follow suit.

Hashtag_

Devs are killing their own game.

MajBludd

@Sahidom that sounds like under 50 pvp more so then my experiences in vet pvp. Referring to the twink escalation.

Edit* now that I think about it, vet pvp has turned into this as well. It used to be tons of solo players and dueling guilds. Solo pvp was the thing to strive for.

Now, it seems, those former solo players, what's left of them, run in 4+ man groups wiping the 24 man zerg groups that used to wipe the solo players.

You just blew my mind, man!

Nyladreas

MajBludd wrote: »

Casuals kill gaming. They want to be at the top and whine when they aren't due to lack of experience in the game.

When they see somebody 1vX they think it's the sets, the class,etc. They make the same build, get beat, and cry for nerfs or cry cheating or exploits. They are the toxic part of the community that drains the fun out of a game for the rest of the player base.

You're resorting to calling other people toxic while having a toxic unfriendly and discriminative attitude yourself.

Amazing.

MajBludd

@Nyladreas did you read all of my posts or did you just cherry pick?

MrGhosty

Really bored of the "casual" label because it can mean just about anything based on the person using it. All it actually does is separate people and then we spend more time bickering between our "groups" than actually dealing with the real problems.

I play on the daily, do endgame stuff and pvp (badly but i'm getting my sea legs back after several years away) yet I would still consider myself a casual player. Truly hardcore players to me are the ones that just do one thing, be it run endgame content at top tier, pvp at top tier, run grinding trains, etc. The only reason I even have that classification is because if I'm looking for information I prefer to look to what a hardcore player is doing in a particular field.

If a player logs in once or twice a week and just wants to wear outfits they think are cool and mounts they spent money on I say more power to them. I don't see any evidence that these so called "casuals" have any more sway over the course of things than the rest of us. It is just as easy (though equally misguided) to tie many of the bad changes that occurred with skills and such to the PvP elites and catering to them is killing the game. Zos will balance the game how they want to balance the game and all we can do is provide the feedback we can and hope for the best.

I would also suggest that the folks at Zos probably have a handle on feedback that is coming from someone who obviously doesn't get it. This furthers my assumption that these individuals aren't really the issue. Now if your complaint is that people who don't play content shouldn't give feedback on it beyond "I don't/can't play this content" then I would agree with you tenfold, but if that's what you really mean to say then I would humbly suggest you do that rather than throwing around a dumb label.

Aurie

How Catering to casuals has affected PvP....

Ever thought of it from this point of view:

How Catering to PvP has affected Casuals....

Or more importantly:

How Catering to PvP has affected PvE....

?

Aznarb

Casual doesn't mean bad.
Casual only have less time to play.

I know and see lot of dedicated player with insane play time and most of them are still very bad at it.

What you're after is bad and lazy player, not casual.

Goregrinder

It's the people wanting that CEO pay, but not those CEO hours, or the CEO grind.

Rungar

you want them to cater to casuals so more will pvp and you can get more easy kills with your elite skills that transcend nerfs.

Purpaleslushii

Rungar wrote: »

you want them to cater to casuals so more will pvp and you can get more easy kills with your elite skills that transcend nerfs.

That makes no sense bro

deepseamk20b14_ESO

Thrusts-His-Spear wrote: »

Imo summerset and wolfhunter was the Pinnacle of pvp balance. Was there things that needed slight adjustments? Yes but the game was balanced in a way were you couldn't 1vx good players. But if the group you were fighting was bad you could out play them with LOS and picking them off 1 by 1. People kept talking trash to me when ever I commented on a nerf post because I was telling them you can't get 1vxed unless you were bad or made a huge mistake in play. Bad players will always blame the game instead of learning how to play

Exactly! 1vX verse good players doesn’t exist. You can kite and simply try and survive playing cat and mouse but you’ll never kill them all before they get you. Bad players get 1vX’d. They want to nerf anything that kills them but will defend to the end anything that benefits them.

On the flip side, there are plenty of people who think they are good then when you kill them they feel the need to hate message you. Had some real good ones in the last couple of weeks. Excuses for excuses on top of excuses. These people are just as bad as casuals honestly. They spend their time playing bad players and start to think they are unbeatable. When they die they throw a hissy fit like children. I can only imagine the type of spoiled child they are in real life. They also come to the forums and cry for nerfs but will fight tooth and nail to keep what they have because they crutch on “X” skill or build.

Kagukan

What exactly is a "casual"? I play a few hours almost every night. Sometimes many hours on weekends and I consider myself a casual player.

VaranisArano

Kagukan wrote: »

What exactly is a "casual"? I play a few hours almost every night. Sometimes many hours on weekends and I consider myself a casual player.

In this case, a "casual" is anyone who plays grouped up that the OP thinks they have more skill than and should be easily able to kill. See, the OP is truly an amazing solo player who would never, ever die to such a player without ZOS catering to such "casuals".


Practically speaking about 1vXing, a "casual" PVPer is someone who, when confronted by a 1vXer, lets themself be pulled away from their group into chokepoints or LOS so that they overextend and get killed. Don't do that. Stick with the group and don't overextend. If you have to fight a 1vXer, do it on your own terms and on a ground of your own choosing.

Jeremy

Kagukan wrote: »

What exactly is a "casual"? I play a few hours almost every night. Sometimes many hours on weekends and I consider myself a casual player.

No one really knows. It's one of those words that been rendered completely useless due to people over-using it as a negative stereotype to describe players they have issues with. It could literally mean anything at this point. The semantic debates that revolve around the word "casual" is probably one of the biggest waste of times you can participate in on the internet.

JokingInke

Zos has in the most recent past stated that they are catering to the type of casual who might only come back when new dlcs drop, I don't think there is anyone currently in this forum post who could be considered a casual by their standards

Kalante

wow kill the NB first because he is squishy.

yea solo play is pretty much dead at this point.

CambionDaemon

Casual gamers ruin gaming full stop, but the gaming industry would not be as large as it is today without them, so it is a double edged sword (so to speak).