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The PTS is now offline for the patch 11.2.1 maintenance and is currently unavailable.
PTS Dragonhold Feedback Notes for Class Rep Meeting
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Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).1 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks periodWell that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.
It might have something to do with me knowing how easy it is to counter because I played as a nightblade for a bit to see how cloak worked and gained that perspective.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.0 -
Dovahmiim✭✭✭✭Yo Class reps you actually hit the nail on the head with like... basically all of that!
Genuinely so impressed, well done! I'm one of the few Mag Warden mains left, these changes seem promising.
Now all we need is 2s snare immunity attached to Bird of Prey, Nature's Embrace to actually work and not bug out 80% of the time, and all will be well
This is in your best interests as I am @Quantum_V 's pocket warden carryI'm better.2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Well, you should see a friend of mine at a shoe sale. I SWEAR she's streaking from shelf to shelf!
(>~<)1 -
KirinBlaze✭✭✭✭God bless the class reps. But yeah, as Brookus pointed out in an earlier post, the only reason class purges being wanted is a thing right now is because of how strong DoTs are and the ease of access everyone has to DoTs with Soul Trap and Entropy being a thing. If DoT damage is going to be reduced from what it is on live the need for everyone to have a purge in PvP goes down and the Alliance War skill remains relevant.
I also personally believe that Entropy should return to being a utility skill that provides Major Sorcery and an additional effect, like the current interation of Degeneration does, rather than a damage ability. Becomes a sort of loaded ability when you consider all it does currently and a heavy burden on resource sustain when you think of its primary reason for use, Major Sorcery, in PvP at least.Kirin Blaze - Ebonheart Pact - Imperial DragonknightKïrïn Bläzë - Daggerfall Covenant - Imperial DragonknightKìrín Blàzé - Aldmeri Dominion - Imperial DragonknightVehemence - Omni - COMBUSTION2 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Royalthought wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol
You claimed that Cloak is not a combination of Shields and Streak but rather a only Shield-like ability b/c it offers no mobility.
However, the value of mobility is that it allows you to potentially disengage from a fight. It is therefore a disengagement tool. Cloak does the same. Whether it offers mobility or some other mechanism to disengage from a fight is irrelevant for this comparison. All that matter is, that both abilities provide a means to get out and/or away from a fight. As such both abilities are similar. And as a result Cloak is similar to Streak and b/c it also offers mitigation it is also similar to Shields. Ergo, Cloak is like a combination of Shield and Steak.
Didn't know I had to explain such simple truths to you. Sorry, my bad.1 -
GloryClass RepresentativeTommy_The_Gun wrote: »
I was actually gonna ask of a similar thing.What's the process for submitted feedback to class reps?
When you guys receive this feedback; how do you determine what goes forward in your summary?
In general, I'm curious about the process you all use to interact with the rest of the user base?
Class rep program (at least this is my assumption) was supposed to work more or less like this:
1. Players post their feedback & pain points.
2. Class reps collect that feedback.
3. Feedback goes to ZOS.
What feedback actually goes to ZOS ? Is there any feedback that is rejected by class reps & never delivered to ZOS ? How do you determine what problems & pain-points are important ?
I ask because I would like to know how does it look like from "the other side", from a class rep perspective. The thing is, we as players simply have "0" warranty and also no idea if our feedback is reaching ZOS in the same way we provided it, or is it somehow getting altered by class reps (idk, bias, "I know better" etc.)
Can some of class reps shed some light on this ?
See post #127 on this same thread : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6361679/#Comment_6361679mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol
You claimed that Cloak is not a combination of Shields and Streak but rather a only Shield-like ability b/c it offers no mobility.
However, the value of mobility is that it allows you to potentially disengage from a fight. It is therefore a disengagement tool. Cloak does the same. Whether it offers mobility or some other mechanism to disengage from a fight is irrelevant for this comparison. All that matter is, that both abilities provide a means to get out and/or away from a fight. As such both abilities are similar. And as a result Cloak is similar to Streak and b/c it also offers mitigation it is also similar to Shields. Ergo, Cloak is like a combination of Shield and Steak.
Didn't know I had to explain such simple truths to you. Sorry, my bad.
You're mistaking your opinion for a fact. Cloak is a mitigation tool. Just as shield is.
Streak and dodgeroll are mobility tools. You actually move from the area of effect.
Disengagement is an end result. Not an ability.
Test and see. Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No.
Hit an enemy with turn evil while they're out of stam, then walk away. Since it allowed you to "disengage" should turn evil have a fatigue? No.
This dead horse argument is silly. Nerf, nerf, nerf. Eso forums.4 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Are you guys just going to tell ZOS Necro feels bad in PVP ? Or you are going to tell them the multiple reasons a lot of us made in the Necromancer feedback thread ?
Actually @wheem_ESO and other players made multiples well formatted and detailed posts about the main pain points in PVP for Necromancers for months better than I ever could.
I just don't have the time anymore to fight for this class seriously why should we have to ? We have been making posts about the pain points since the class came out. That's why there is lack of Necro Thread and it's the less played class in PVP.
I don't know if Elsweyr is their best selling chapter thus far because of Necromancer but I feel people all went back to their mains after the disappointment of Necro in PVP and are focusing on their main class for feedback.Edited by Revokus on September 27, 2019 2:59AMPlaying since January 23, 20162 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are you guys just going to tell ZOS Necro feels bad in PVP ? Or you are going to tell them the multiple reasons a lot of us made in the Necromancer feedback thread ?
Actually @wheem_ESO and other players made multiples well formatted and detailed posts about the main pain points in PVP for Necromancers for months better than I ever could.
I just don't have the time anymore to fight for this class seriously why should we have to ? We have been making posts about the pain points since the class came out. That's why there is lack of Necro Thread and it's the less played class in PVP.
I don't know if Elsweyr is their best selling chapter thus far because of Necromancer but I feel people all went back to their mains after the disappointment of Necro in PVP and are focusing on their main class for feedback.
Thats what happens when games start adding in pay 2 win classes they'll buff the f:#k out of them for an sale or give it something no one else has even at taking away from others 1st to get salesbut after they just turned down so far that everyone drops them game developers dont care as they done got the money out of the sales seen it with both classes thats been added guess we all know how next class will go
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xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭You guys really need to take a look at the loss of reflective plate from DKs I know it was taken away a while ago now but magicka DKs are utterly screwed in PvP by the fact that we just cannot close on the enemy anymore and leap is not a reliable effective means of doing so due to ultimate build up nessasary. Its simply unfeasible for us to push anyone at range in PvP anymore regardless of damage mitigation granted the out right reflect was fair because we had absolutely nothing else it was our only defense. Now we've just got the endless spam of draining shot and various other ranged projectile stuns as well as all the ranged damage. It also had effective counters that nobody wanted to use such as crushing shock and its counter part and on top of that it encouraged stamina melee vs magicka melee engagements which is actually fun!
Burning embers should also be mentioned because reducing the damage as well as with engulfing is just horrible and the spell damage change to engulfing also brutalises a lot of builds in pvp as well as we're not all running glass cannons because its suicide.
Flame lash should just be given to stamina players. We dont need that extra heal honestly not when we have molten whip for damage and then we have burning embers heal + coagulating blood.Edited by xeNNNNN on September 27, 2019 4:47AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
Revokus✭✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »Are you guys just going to tell ZOS Necro feels bad in PVP ? Or you are going to tell them the multiple reasons a lot of us made in the Necromancer feedback thread ?
Actually @wheem_ESO and other players made multiples well formatted and detailed posts about the main pain points in PVP for Necromancers for months better than I ever could.
I just don't have the time anymore to fight for this class seriously why should we have to ? We have been making posts about the pain points since the class came out. That's why there is lack of Necro Thread and it's the less played class in PVP.
I don't know if Elsweyr is their best selling chapter thus far because of Necromancer but I feel people all went back to their mains after the disappointment of Necro in PVP and are focusing on their main class for feedback.
Thats what happens when games start adding in pay 2 win classes they'll buff the f:#k out of them for an sale or give it something no one else has even at taking away from others 1st to get salesbut after they just turned down so far that everyone drops them game developers dont care as they done got the money out of the sales seen it with both classes thats been added guess we all know how next class will go
Warden both Stamina and Magicka took a long time before even being competitive in PVE and Stamwarden was the better spec in PVP for a long time. As for Necro they might be good in PVE and but they are bad in PVP.
I fail to see the P2W you are mentioning when Nightblade and Sorcerer have for a long time been TOP tier in both PVP and PVE.Edited by Revokus on September 27, 2019 3:43AMPlaying since January 23, 20162 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only thing this lacks is anything about pvp performance. This is the problem with have no console class reps, and im not sure about pvp main class reps. But I'd bet anything that if there was a class rep, pvp main, here on xbox that played in the 30 day campaign, they would bring it up at every meeting. Not to badger them, just to remind them that people are pretty much unable to play. Because thats what it is.
Cab is a class rep from console.
So he is, thanks. Not sure how many class reps there have been but this is definitely a good start.
After watching a few videos I cant tell if he pvps or not, the ones I saw were mainly pve focused but I didnt watch all of them. Plus im not sure how pvp is on PS4, but I really wouldn't be surprised if its just bad as xbox..
I did see a video that was helpful though. Apparently @CAB_Life is now, or will be, playing on xbox. So thats good to hear, but like I said im not sure if he pvps so I dont know if he will experience the issues that we do on xbox. Either way I hope someday we get a console class rep who pvps on a regular basis, if thats not what cab does.. And if it is then great. The game and classes are so different in pvp vs pve, as well as on console vs on PC.
But really the point of what I said was that if there were a console class rep that was a main pvper, that played the main campaign on xbox on a regular basis, Im sure they would be bringing this issue up whenever they could. Because its unplayable. Maybe when cab gets some gear and CP he can hop into the 30 day on xbox and try to experience pvp. Class doesnt matter when you cant use skills and certain skills function completely different on console compared to PC. Some of that is minor but some of it, because of the performance difference, is major, such as cast time skills.
At the moment, I am essentially a PVP main. I’ve cleared all the Vet Trials and PVE content in the game and due to how grouping is structured in this game (poorly), I no longer do that content regularly as it’s time-consuming to organize (not to mention the performance issues and bugs on all platforms). My routine is as follows: log in on eight toons, do writs, log onto my main (atm I’m slogging it out with necro and have been since the last Chapter), do dom vet—doesn’t matter which or who, I’ll pug the hardest content if it pops as that’s the fun and challenge. Afterward, I do BGs, Cyrodiil and IC depending on my mood and until my play session ends. I’ll have more to share on my overall impressions with necro soon, particularly in PVP content, and I do ask console specific questions and community concerns during the meetings—I can’t quite discuss the results of more recent discussions just yet, but will as soon as that info is vetted.
About half of my ESO content is actually PVP focused except for “Fun with Pugs”, which focuses on the “fun” (lol) of random grouping and encounters. In PVE, I really do enjoy hammering through stuff with newbs and/ or super skilled players. That’s the joy of the roulette. You never know what you’re gonna get!
If you’d ever like to do BGs, Cyro or duel on PS4 (Xbox account still very much a baby, but getting there), feel free to add me to PSN. It sounds as if you’re primarily on Xbox, though, and having both platforms now I can tell you that the performance and woes are shared between platforms. The ‘enhanced’ consoles certainly alleviate the worst of the crashes and bugs, and the Xbox One X graphical tweaks make it the shiniest of the pack. Still, the developers have a lot to do with regards to performance and hopefully we’ll see the fruits of that labor soon.
Ya dont say anything more than you should, for sure. Its a ludicrous rule for the situation, but it is what it is.
But thats honestly good to hear. Im primarily a pvp player. My day goes like this. Log on, check the 7 day CP camp. Its dead. Check the no CP camp. Its dead. Ignore the 30 day camp because its unplayable. Spend a couple hours killing people in the sewers with less than 1 bar pop, and zero bars in no CP sewers. And then log off to play another game.
Its sad. There was a time where I did everything else in the game.. Crafting, dungeons, trials, housing, achievements, everything.. But it was always in moderation.. Pvp for a couple weeks, pvp for a couple weeks. These days I'm just disgusted with the game all together. If I cant do what I want, which is small scale cyrodil PVP, then theres no point in doing the other stuff. If the game worked id be in pvp for hours every day, but it doesnt. And the campaign that doesnt lag is dead because, through neglect, zos have chased off so many pvp players.
And I dont play on ps4. PC and xbox. There was a time where I would have gotten the game on Ps4 as well, but not now. So I have no idea how bad it actually is on ps4. All I can tell you is that on xbox, in the 30 day (which is the only populated pvp area) the game is unplayable. Skill delay is at an all time high. Lag is miserable. Skills not working, or skills trying to catch up.. Its awful. You either zerg or die. You cannot effectively play small scale, and its such a waste of potential.
Even yesterday I went in the 30 day to check it out, as i do from time to time. Hopped in, went to swap gear, and it took 6+ seconds to change my helmet. But its good to hear someone is bringing these issues up. If you get a chance you should really check out the 30 day on xbox, even maybe ps4. Trying to play small scale under those conditions really gives you a perspective on how zos treats pvp players, especially on console. In a zerg it has less of an impact but still sucks im sure.
One question though, what class are you the class rep for? Just curious honestly. Dont really keep up on the class reps or the program unless I see it on here.1 -
robpr✭✭✭✭✭
✭I disagree with Stonefist being weak. It's weak only in applying the stun. In PvE, Stagger stacks dont go away if target can't be stunned. 5 stacks of Stagger increase damage taken by 125, so each tick of damage hits a little harder. By principle it's great but it can be better.
-High cost shouldn't be justified by having Helping Hands passive. Yes, that one that restores 990 Stamina each cast of EH ability.
-5 casts to stun is not practical if Petrify exists even with it's 5k mag cost.
-It's ranged for some reason. mDK's abilities are all melee despite having a ranged weapon.
How to fix:
-Lower the cost.
-1 cast puts players off-balance. Casts against off-balance stuns. Cast against stunned players knocks back. 6k stam to knockback seem reasonable to not overuse.
-Make Stone Giant a very short gap closer (7-10m). "Envelop your fist in stone and slam the enemy".
0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol
You claimed that Cloak is not a combination of Shields and Streak but rather a only Shield-like ability b/c it offers no mobility.
However, the value of mobility is that it allows you to potentially disengage from a fight. It is therefore a disengagement tool. Cloak does the same. Whether it offers mobility or some other mechanism to disengage from a fight is irrelevant for this comparison. All that matter is, that both abilities provide a means to get out and/or away from a fight. As such both abilities are similar. And as a result Cloak is similar to Streak and b/c it also offers mitigation it is also similar to Shields. Ergo, Cloak is like a combination of Shield and Steak.
Didn't know I had to explain such simple truths to you. Sorry, my bad.
You're mistaking your opinion for a fact. Cloak is a mitigation tool. Just as shield is.
Streak and dodgeroll are mobility tools. You actually move from the area of effect.
Disengagement is an end result. Not an ability.
Test and see. Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No.
Hit an enemy with turn evil while they're out of stam, then walk away. Since it allowed you to "disengage" should turn evil have a fatigue? No.
This dead horse argument is silly. Nerf, nerf, nerf. Eso forums.
Here we go again.
You: "Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No."
To which I say: "Cast Streak. Have an enemy cast a gap closer. Are you disengaged? No."
The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool. Using disengagement tools does not guarentee disengagement. There are counters to these abilities - as there should be. Streak can be countered by Gap Closers, Sprint, single target damage and DoTs. Cloak can be countered by AoEs and stuff like Detection Pots, Mage Light, etc.
Maybe this helps you to understand: Nobody is using a Invisibility Potion primarily to mitigate damage. People use it to get away from the fight. Invisibility is a disengagement tool! The fact that Cloak also makes you invulnerable to several type of damage does not change this fact. It rather makes Cloak a combination of a mitigation tool (like shields) and a disengagement tool (like streak).
You really have a distorted perception of reality! Cloak is a mitigation tool, but dodge roll is a mobility tool? Lol!
Dodgeroll is primarily a mitigation tool. A good indicator for this is that it mitigates 100% of the damage types it is meant to mitigate and the fact that people only it when they are taking damage. While the former is also true for cloak, the latter is not. Cloak is also used to not be engaged by enemies. In addition, dodging does not get you away from the enemy. It neither opens a meaningful gap nor does it make you invisible and thus untargetable. That's why dodgerollers use speed and/or Streak or Cloak to get away from a fight. In contrast to that they use dodge roll to roll "circles" around you ... that's not something you do when you want to get away from a fight.
Stop putting a slant on these abilites to fit your own goals.4 -
armchair✭Great thread thanks for sharing the info and props to all the class reps who took the time to actually post something in here.
To the class reps who haven't shown up at all. In the digital era we live in now and the ability to access and post to this forum from anywhere on the globe via mobile devices, you should have been able to find 3 minutes of time over the past two days to post something here even if it's just a hello. Not doing so show's a lack of concern for the people you are supposed to be representing, and say's to me personally you probably shouldn't be doing the job.
While I didn't expect this I would like to see combat changes in mind that will address the shift in the pvp meta the current changes will create. The damage reduction to dots, the cost increase to ground targets making them to costly to maintain, the almost complete lack of offensive skills that penetrate block and the overall increase to healing across the boards. That all leads us back to a block based SnB meta. The combined nerf to dots and dizzying swing the added resist's the minor maim on your spammable and the ease of landing a light attack heroic slash bash combo make's SnB the clear choice above all others once again for stamina players.
2 -
GloryClass RepresentativeAre you guys just going to tell ZOS Necro feels bad in PVP ? Or you are going to tell them the multiple reasons a lot of us made in the Necromancer feedback thread ?
Actually @wheem_ESO and other players made multiples well formatted and detailed posts about the main pain points in PVP for Necromancers for months better than I ever could.
I just don't have the time anymore to fight for this class seriously why should we have to ? We have been making posts about the pain points since the class came out. That's why there is lack of Necro Thread and it's the less played class in PVP.
I don't know if Elsweyr is their best selling chapter thus far because of Necromancer but I feel people all went back to their mains after the disappointment of Necro in PVP and are focusing on their main class for feedback.
I have played necro extensively in PvP (solo, group DPS, group support) and have far too much feedback about the class to include in a general PTS summary post. I also know there are many others who have feedback as well!mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol
You claimed that Cloak is not a combination of Shields and Streak but rather a only Shield-like ability b/c it offers no mobility.
However, the value of mobility is that it allows you to potentially disengage from a fight. It is therefore a disengagement tool. Cloak does the same. Whether it offers mobility or some other mechanism to disengage from a fight is irrelevant for this comparison. All that matter is, that both abilities provide a means to get out and/or away from a fight. As such both abilities are similar. And as a result Cloak is similar to Streak and b/c it also offers mitigation it is also similar to Shields. Ergo, Cloak is like a combination of Shield and Steak.
Didn't know I had to explain such simple truths to you. Sorry, my bad.
You're mistaking your opinion for a fact. Cloak is a mitigation tool. Just as shield is.
Streak and dodgeroll are mobility tools. You actually move from the area of effect.
Disengagement is an end result. Not an ability.
Test and see. Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No.
Hit an enemy with turn evil while they're out of stam, then walk away. Since it allowed you to "disengage" should turn evil have a fatigue? No.
This dead horse argument is silly. Nerf, nerf, nerf. Eso forums.
Here we go again.
You: "Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No."
To which I say: "Cast Streak. Have an enemy cast a gap closer. Are you disengaged? No."
The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool. Using disengagement tools does not guarentee disengagement. There are counters to these abilities - as there should be. Streak can be countered by Gap Closers, Sprint, single target damage and DoTs. Cloak can be countered by AoEs and stuff like Detection Pots, Mage Light, etc.
Maybe this helps you to understand: Nobody is using a Invisibility Potion primarily to mitigate damage. People use it to get away from the fight. Invisibility is a disengagement tool! The fact that Cloak also makes you invulnerable to several type of damage does not change this fact. It rather makes Cloak a combination of a mitigation tool (like shields) and a disengagement tool (like streak).
You really have a distorted perception of reality! Cloak is a mitigation tool, but dodge roll is a mobility tool? Lol!
Dodgeroll is primarily a mitigation tool. A good indicator for this is that it mitigates 100% of the damage types it is meant to mitigate and the fact that people only it when they are taking damage. While the former is also true for cloak, the latter is not. Cloak is also used to not be engaged by enemies. In addition, dodging does not get you away from the enemy. It neither opens a meaningful gap nor does it make you invisible and thus untargetable. That's why dodgerollers use speed and/or Streak or Cloak to get away from a fight. In contrast to that they use dodge roll to roll "circles" around you ... that's not something you do when you want to get away from a fight.
Stop putting a slant on these abilites to fit your own goals.
"The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool."
^Read your own quote.
Knockbacks can be used as disengagement tools. Living dark can be used as a disengagement tool. Petrify can be used as a disengagement tool.
None of them have fatigue. You know which abilities do have fatigue? The ones that offer mobility.
Cloak offers no mobility. NONE. Youre going in circles repeatedly saying it can be used as a disengagement tool.......... For the 2nd time. Mobility is NOT a misspelling of disengagement.
Abilities that have MOBILITY get the Fatigue. Let that sink in. Not abilities that CAN be used to disengage as a result. This is getting old.Edited by Royalthought on September 27, 2019 12:57PM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol
You claimed that Cloak is not a combination of Shields and Streak but rather a only Shield-like ability b/c it offers no mobility.
However, the value of mobility is that it allows you to potentially disengage from a fight. It is therefore a disengagement tool. Cloak does the same. Whether it offers mobility or some other mechanism to disengage from a fight is irrelevant for this comparison. All that matter is, that both abilities provide a means to get out and/or away from a fight. As such both abilities are similar. And as a result Cloak is similar to Streak and b/c it also offers mitigation it is also similar to Shields. Ergo, Cloak is like a combination of Shield and Steak.
Didn't know I had to explain such simple truths to you. Sorry, my bad.
You're mistaking your opinion for a fact. Cloak is a mitigation tool. Just as shield is.
Streak and dodgeroll are mobility tools. You actually move from the area of effect.
Disengagement is an end result. Not an ability.
Test and see. Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No.
Hit an enemy with turn evil while they're out of stam, then walk away. Since it allowed you to "disengage" should turn evil have a fatigue? No.
This dead horse argument is silly. Nerf, nerf, nerf. Eso forums.
Here we go again.
You: "Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No."
To which I say: "Cast Streak. Have an enemy cast a gap closer. Are you disengaged? No."
The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool. Using disengagement tools does not guarentee disengagement. There are counters to these abilities - as there should be. Streak can be countered by Gap Closers, Sprint, single target damage and DoTs. Cloak can be countered by AoEs and stuff like Detection Pots, Mage Light, etc.
Maybe this helps you to understand: Nobody is using a Invisibility Potion primarily to mitigate damage. People use it to get away from the fight. Invisibility is a disengagement tool! The fact that Cloak also makes you invulnerable to several type of damage does not change this fact. It rather makes Cloak a combination of a mitigation tool (like shields) and a disengagement tool (like streak).
You really have a distorted perception of reality! Cloak is a mitigation tool, but dodge roll is a mobility tool? Lol!
Dodgeroll is primarily a mitigation tool. A good indicator for this is that it mitigates 100% of the damage types it is meant to mitigate and the fact that people only it when they are taking damage. While the former is also true for cloak, the latter is not. Cloak is also used to not be engaged by enemies. In addition, dodging does not get you away from the enemy. It neither opens a meaningful gap nor does it make you invisible and thus untargetable. That's why dodgerollers use speed and/or Streak or Cloak to get away from a fight. In contrast to that they use dodge roll to roll "circles" around you ... that's not something you do when you want to get away from a fight.
Stop putting a slant on these abilites to fit your own goals.
"The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool."
^Read your own quote.
Knockbacks can be used as disengagement tools. Living dark can be used as a disengagement tool. Petrify can be used as a disengagement tool.
None of them have fatigue. You know which abilities do have fatigue? The ones that offer mobility.
Cloak offers no mobility. NONE. Youre going in circles repeatedly saying it can be used as a disengagement tool.......... For the 2nd time. Mobility is NOT a misspelling of disengagement.
Abilities that have MOBILITY get the Fatigue. Let that sink in. Not abilities that CAN be used to disengage as a result. This is getting old.
Those CCs don't have fatique, they have immunity. You're so off-course, man...2 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭I only have three comments to make here.
Before I begin, please push ZOS hard on balancing PVE and PVP through Battle Spirit. It will make balancing 10x easier in the future.- DoT change to 1.25x too much (1.8x?)
DoT's are fine as-is. The problem players are experiencing is the ability for like DoT's to stack. Players are tired of getting nuked by four+ Entropies dealing 12K each.
Suggestion: Make DoT's (In PVP - through Battle Spirit) diminishing. If Two players apply the same DoT on one enemy player, the result of damage of each Entropy should be reduced by 50% in order to equate to 100% of the original damage, as if applied by only one player rather than two.Hello all,- PotL/Purifying Light shouldn’t crit AND get amps from allies.
Really...? This is absurd. PotL should absolutely Crit! Stamplar identity has no real burst ability. Period. Also, we are lacking an execute unless looking to outside skill lines. There are so many instances that Stamina Templars will literally beat on other players expecting their PotL to fill and explode, only to see the enemy health bar NOT MOVE because of the HA Meta ZOS has promoted for so long. With the nerf to DoTs, this Meta will come back and be worse than before.
Suggestion: Make PotL critable, but reduce the ability (IN PVP) to only be filled by caster.
I am sincerely appalled at the lack of discussion on Stamina Templars other than a nerf idea. Stop requesting nerfs to this class. In all honesty, only thing Stamina Templars need is:- Better Mobility - this can be achieved by gaining some form of expedition or escape tool, Stamina morph of Focused Charge.
- Better synergy for healing with Stamina. Major Mending was taken away and given to Wardens in Morrowind.
- Better form of proactive defense - Major Protection was taken away from Crescent Sweep.
- Templar, Warden and Necromancer have a class purge. Suggestion that Dragonknights, Sorcerers and Nightblades also get class purges.
No! No, no, no and more no. Expecting more of a Class Identity restoration from ZOS and getting this would just further diminish the Class system. Nightblades can suppress DoTs and negative effects in Cloak. Sorcerers have shields - work around that. Dragonknights need an ability to absorb incoming damage and channel it into outgoing damage or healing. Purge is accessible to ALL classes via the Alliance War skill line.
@CAB_Life
@cicisch
@Glory
@Nefas
@RebornZombie
@Alcast
@FeaR Turbo
@GandTheImpaler
@Masel
@Quantum_V
5 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I've never had a problem killing someone who cloaks period
Well that might have a lot to do with the class and build you play. Some do much better against cloak than others. I think it would be much better for both the NBs and their opponents if cloak worked more consistently.Royalthought wrote: »@Royalthought
Well, actually Cloak is more like a combination of Shields and Streak as it is both a mitigation tool and a gap opener / disengagement tool. That's also what makes it so tricky to balance. It's invisibility / disengagement part definitely needs the streak treatment. However, it's mitigation part CANNOT suffer the streak treatment as it would break magblades.
ZOS really needs to disentangle these 2 effects. 1) Make invis and 2) Absorb single target direct damage (& suppress DoTs). Anything else inevitably leads to balance issues.
I dont want to further derail the thread to be dominating by one discusion.
So to quickly respond. This is incorrect.
Streak and dodgeroll offer mobility. Cloak and shield do not. Neither cloak nor shield will remove you from areas of harm. They'll only mitigate damage.
A sorc without streak and a nightblade without mobility are both, generally speaking, easy kills.
Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again is like saying streak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use for example a gap closer to prevent the sorc from getting away. In many ways cloak is a far more powerful disengagement tool than streak b/c it has less counters that are readily available on viable all-rounder builds.
There is a reason why camouflage (pseudo-invisibility) developed in nature and it is not b/c it makes it user more resistant to force effects (damage).
Your rewording what you quoted to suit your argument.
What I said was cloak and shield have no mobility.
Mobility is not a misspelling of disengagement.
"Saying cloak is not a disengagement tool b/c you can use certain skills to attack the NB again"
These are your words. You created this and then responded to it. This is between you and you. Leave me out of it
lol
You claimed that Cloak is not a combination of Shields and Streak but rather a only Shield-like ability b/c it offers no mobility.
However, the value of mobility is that it allows you to potentially disengage from a fight. It is therefore a disengagement tool. Cloak does the same. Whether it offers mobility or some other mechanism to disengage from a fight is irrelevant for this comparison. All that matter is, that both abilities provide a means to get out and/or away from a fight. As such both abilities are similar. And as a result Cloak is similar to Streak and b/c it also offers mitigation it is also similar to Shields. Ergo, Cloak is like a combination of Shield and Steak.
Didn't know I had to explain such simple truths to you. Sorry, my bad.
You're mistaking your opinion for a fact. Cloak is a mitigation tool. Just as shield is.
Streak and dodgeroll are mobility tools. You actually move from the area of effect.
Disengagement is an end result. Not an ability.
Test and see. Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No.
Hit an enemy with turn evil while they're out of stam, then walk away. Since it allowed you to "disengage" should turn evil have a fatigue? No.
This dead horse argument is silly. Nerf, nerf, nerf. Eso forums.
Here we go again.
You: "Cast cloak. Have an enemy cast an aoe or detect potion. Are you disengaged? No."
To which I say: "Cast Streak. Have an enemy cast a gap closer. Are you disengaged? No."
The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool. Using disengagement tools does not guarentee disengagement. There are counters to these abilities - as there should be. Streak can be countered by Gap Closers, Sprint, single target damage and DoTs. Cloak can be countered by AoEs and stuff like Detection Pots, Mage Light, etc.
Maybe this helps you to understand: Nobody is using a Invisibility Potion primarily to mitigate damage. People use it to get away from the fight. Invisibility is a disengagement tool! The fact that Cloak also makes you invulnerable to several type of damage does not change this fact. It rather makes Cloak a combination of a mitigation tool (like shields) and a disengagement tool (like streak).
You really have a distorted perception of reality! Cloak is a mitigation tool, but dodge roll is a mobility tool? Lol!
Dodgeroll is primarily a mitigation tool. A good indicator for this is that it mitigates 100% of the damage types it is meant to mitigate and the fact that people only it when they are taking damage. While the former is also true for cloak, the latter is not. Cloak is also used to not be engaged by enemies. In addition, dodging does not get you away from the enemy. It neither opens a meaningful gap nor does it make you invisible and thus untargetable. That's why dodgerollers use speed and/or Streak or Cloak to get away from a fight. In contrast to that they use dodge roll to roll "circles" around you ... that's not something you do when you want to get away from a fight.
Stop putting a slant on these abilites to fit your own goals.
"The fact that you haven't disengaged doesn't mean the ability you used is not a disengagement tool."
^Read your own quote.
Knockbacks can be used as disengagement tools. Living dark can be used as a disengagement tool. Petrify can be used as a disengagement tool.
None of them have fatigue. You know which abilities do have fatigue? The ones that offer mobility.
Cloak offers no mobility. NONE. Youre going in circles repeatedly saying it can be used as a disengagement tool.......... For the 2nd time. Mobility is NOT a misspelling of disengagement.
Abilities that have MOBILITY get the Fatigue. Let that sink in. Not abilities that CAN be used to disengage as a result. This is getting old.
Those CCs don't have fatique, they have immunity. You're so off-course, man...
And that has what to do with Mobility? Absolutely nothing. The examples were "off course" for a reason.
The point is simple. Dodgeroll and streak were given fatigue because they move the player from 1 point to another. They could be done in rapid succession.
None of the abilities in any of the examples given accomplish that. Mobility. The discussion of mobility. Was already muddied with 1 who wanted to make it about disengagement. Are we really throwing immunity in now? LolEdited by Royalthought on September 27, 2019 2:00PM1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Off Balance is too prevalent and heavily favors stamina users.
That is a good catch. They went nuts with off balance this patch.
1 -
Essavias✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
DoT's are fine as-is. The problem players are experiencing is the ability for like DoT's to stack. Players are tired of getting nuked by four+ Entropies dealing 12K each.
Suggestion: Make DoT's (In PVP - through Battle Spirit) diminishing. If Two players apply the same DoT on one enemy player, the result of damage of each Entropy should be reduced by 50% in order to equate to 100% of the original damage, as if applied by only one player rather than two.
Absolutely this.
Except above, the only thing I'd really like to see is a way for magplars to get major sorcery via class ability and then I'd be completely happy.1 -
iRaivyne✭✭✭New 30 Day Campaign (no faction) lock is AWESOME (recommend unhoming people and also put it at the top for true test)
I can't believe this actually made it to the list of things to discuss with the developers.
Spoiler: the one on top wins because most people don't care. So, the only thing this proves is that those who suggested this want to stack the deck in favor of no faction lock.3 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
DoT's are fine as-is. The problem players are experiencing is the ability for like DoT's to stack. Players are tired of getting nuked by four+ Entropies dealing 12K each.
Suggestion: Make DoT's (In PVP - through Battle Spirit) diminishing. If Two players apply the same DoT on one enemy player, the result of damage of each Entropy should be reduced by 50% in order to equate to 100% of the original damage, as if applied by only one player rather than two.
Absolutely this.
Except above, the only thing I'd really like to see is a way for magplars to get major sorcery via class ability and then I'd be completely happy.
With changes to entropy, major sorcery is becoming a more viable pain point for Templars.
There are plenty of changes we want for Templars. Sadly, they won't happen because DK, Sorcer and NB mains are more prevalent in forums and cry bloody murder at the sight of "Please extend a courtesy to Templars".
ZOS listens to who *** the loudest and longest...and we just dont have the numbers.1 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭montiferus wrote: »PotL/Purifying Light shouldn’t crit AND get amps from allies.
Oh, they improved the most difficult to use delayed burst skill in the game, and even class reps are shouting "nerf!"
Either way, if it doesn't benefit from other people's damage, the cap should be removed too.
Difficult to use? Fills up automatically with damage in 6 secs, only one that allies can also activate and as of PTS, deals more than Assassin's Will. Can't be dodged, no travel time, breaks Cloak, can't be LoSed.
Relentless Focus/Merciless Resolve users cries in background. Boom baby.
This is such BS. In PvP you will never do enough damage to make it better than grim focus, unless you're running with a zerg. Damage of the skill is cut twice by any form of mitigation (including battle spirit), first when you stack up the damage, then when it actually does its explosion, and you're exposed while you're trying to stack it up, because the moment you stop playing offensively, it will hit like a wet noodle.
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Agree. Poster has no idea what he is talking about.
For solo / small group play it is easily the highest skill cap execute in the game.
Problem is this forum is mostly comprised of bad players and zergers. We need a ranking system in here to separate the wheat from the chaffe.
"highest skill cap execute" (Not even an execute skill btw, even if you are using it to finish people off.)
"Lemme get all muh "small scaler" bois to hit on this one random guy running away and hope for him to die randomly to unavoidable damage unless he wants to burn all his mag on purge."
Yeah, I'm out.Edited by susmitds on September 27, 2019 2:35PM4