Update 50 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of April 20:
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
We will be performing maintenance for patch 12.0.1 on the PTS on Monday at 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC).
I struggle to understand all the hate in Update 24
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Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maybe it is just me but everything became increasingly worse since woeler sold out and became a zos employee
It's just you, because I work for a web development company in Germany, and have done so for the last couple of years. In fact, I am sitting in the office right now. I have also never worked for ZOS in the past. So basically you just pulled that story out of your ass.
A for effort though.Edited by Woeler on September 17, 2019 2:52PM10 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭price101610 wrote: »This may reduce the top player below 100k DPS again, but for all of us scrubs that were happy to finally break 60k on an iron, or were approaching 30k on a 3mil, I have a feeling we will be in for a rude awakening with U24. I’m on console, so I can’t hop on pts and test, but common sense would say a nerf of 50-67% on the major damage skills my DPS classes use is going to hurt...a lot. Guess my friends and fam will be happy that I’ll be playing Borderlands with them now.
Edit: if I have to change rotation, nbd, but I hope I can change it up and still maintain what I hit last patch.
I know it might sounds cheesy (cause it's kinda is) but figuring out how to become the top tier player, and actually climb the dps ladder to the top is, to me at least, a very enjoyable and engaging ride. I do hope to not do it every 3 months though, I'd love sometime to enjoy what I've achieved. So no worry, you're not alone if you ever feel like all you've done weight nothing.0 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I fully agree. Update 24 is already miles better than Update 23 from a PVP perspective.0 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I ( mostly ) discount all the negative comments and hype when it comes to patches or some new "OMG I can't wait" DLC.
I personally liked the last Update. Seemed like I died a little faster at times but overall it seemed like a very lively update. It was nice to see bomb-blades come out and wipe groups. I think templers, and a few sets were OP but overall I liked the update.
I am very disappointed about ESO removing knock backs. I just recently started using Dizzy Swing ( started using it during the IC event ) and it was so much fun knocking the NPCs back. Most players would dodge it but it was fun at least trying to knock them back.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)3 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the issue isnt reduced power but if you buff stuff 70% and than nerf it 80% you simply have no freakin clue what they are doing... if they did incremental iterationd people could test and cope with much better and you didnt get the feeling that zos just wings it depending on how drunk the combat designers are when they arrive in the morning...
and dont get me started about standardizing everything and killing diversity and identity in the process...3 -
price101610✭✭✭price101610 wrote: »This may reduce the top player below 100k DPS again, but for all of us scrubs that were happy to finally break 60k on an iron, or were approaching 30k on a 3mil, I have a feeling we will be in for a rude awakening with U24. I’m on console, so I can’t hop on pts and test, but common sense would say a nerf of 50-67% on the major damage skills my DPS classes use is going to hurt...a lot. Guess my friends and fam will be happy that I’ll be playing Borderlands with them now.
Edit: if I have to change rotation, nbd, but I hope I can change it up and still maintain what I hit last patch.
I know it might sounds cheesy (cause it's kinda is) but figuring out how to become the top tier player, and actually climb the dps ladder to the top is, to me at least, a very enjoyable and engaging ride. I do hope to not do it every 3 months though, I'd love sometime to enjoy what I've achieved. So no worry, you're not alone if you ever feel like all you've done weight nothing.
I totally agree. Last patch I focused on tightening up my rotation, improving weaving, and re-traiting/improving gear for the current meta. Was running the vMA weapon meta on Stam and FG/SpellStrat on mag. Saw nice increases and began to take on harder challenges (more vet dungeons and trials). Finally felt like I finally wasn’t a liability in my group. As long as these changes are manageable (I’ll wait and see how @alcast and @xynode respond to the changes), then I don’t have an issue with the patch. If I can’t adjust skills, rotation, and maybe a few tweaks to gear to maintain at least a semblance of my U23 parses, then I just don’t see a point in playing seriously until they readjust in a future patch. BTW, I don’t want to settle at +60k, but there’s no point in trying to improve if that number goes sub 50 with this update. I guess it’s just playing the waiting game for now and trying not to feel like the world is on fire lol.Edited by price101610 on September 17, 2019 3:27PM1 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭TelvanniWizard wrote: »100k dps as a norm? Only top elite players did that. I'm almost sure 80% (probably more) of players struggle to reach 30k. The nerfs will hurt the casual/progression majority, and the guys who achieve 100k will somehow, after the nerfs, reach 110k. That's how it has been for long. Ultra-no lifers pushing dps boundaries higher each patch. If ZOS really wanted to fix things, Animation cancelling would be eliminated, and skills could be balanced then.
You shouldn't say animation cancelling because that includes block, roll dodge and interrupt which are all wonderful. You should say animation cancelling for dps aka weaving, bash cancelling and bar cancelling.
i do agree with you though, nothing can be balanced until that is fixed. Not even performance. Why zos chooses to remain oblivious to it i don't know.
nobody talks much about it anymore because they all left for other games. Anytime you find someone who doesn't play eso anymore you always get back the same answer: shoddy combat system aka the weaving system.
tbh, ZOS have already shot themselves in the foot. They cannot pull back animation canceling at any cost at this point, since it is now a "feature" of this game's core combat mechanic. Forget about class identity or nerf hammer, eliminating animation canceling is a 1 way ticket to bankruptcy for ZOS. It doesn't matter whether anyone hate it or not at this point, animation canceling is here to stay.
Unfortunately I have to say you're correct since they made a load screen window telling you how to do it as if it was a natural function in the game when all it ever has been is the biggest bug of the game that they cannot fix0 -
daedalusAI✭✭✭✭✭daedalusAI wrote: »daedalusAI wrote: »I mean, isn't this what we asked for when Update 23 came out?
_ Power creep is out of control with 100k dps as a norm -> ZOS tone down the dps scale.
_ Single target DOTs became BIS and spammable became irrelevant -> ZOS admit that Update 23 missed the mark and nerf DOTs so spammable can shine.
_ AOE DOTs has no clear disadvantage to single target DOTs, especially in PVE -> ZOS implement the rule so that AOE DOTs will always cost much more than single target one.
_ The game was lacking in class identities -> ZOS... well... they tried, I guess? Not sure how these changes will turn out, but I'm 100% not into throwing turd 5 times with my stamDK (Don't you dare tell me that tiny black piece of crap is a "stone fist")
As someone who play both PVE and PVP, and have witness tons of "this game is dead" post for the last 3 years or so, this time with Update 24, I'm just lost. Funny enough, people in my guilds and discord are quite ok with this patch and they at least understand why these changes got made. I'm not sure what it is, but this forum is 1000x times more toxic than the actual in-game community, and you guys really cannot make up your mind. This is, by far, the most flip-flop forum I've ever seen in any online game I've ever played.
That being said, reading all the salty posts for how "this theory crafting I've just made 5 mins ago is so OP" or "This game is dead because it's not going the way I want" is pretty hilarious at times, honestly.
Labeling criticism as "hate" already gets you a place on my "questionable individual" list.- ZOS blew the DoT scaling out of proportion with U23, and now they have to make a 180° in getting it down to 1.25x instead of 2.5x scaling - which just screams inability/laziness/no scope etc. to me
- If using spammables is the designed scope of ESO's combat why are there even DoTs, which now will receive quite hefty downscaling as far as their damage is concerned? ZOS is just forcing the spammable playstyle and not considering that DoT-builds are also viable builds
- ZOS destroyed the AoE scaling of DoTs, just to revert it 1 patch later, but now with additional costs. Yet again utter inability being forced to make a 180° yet again
- "They tried for class balance" is just an euphemism for "they failed spectacularly"
- I hope the "You guys can't make up your mind" is directed as ZOS too, because they're doing 180° game changes every major patch it seems, with no clear idea of direction this game is supposed to go
1. ZOS do a 180 because they know that they screwed it up in Update 23, they've admitted to it, and we all know that it would happen.
2. I said spammable was irrelevant, so I'm happy that spammable is now usable again. I've never said that spammable is the true way of playing ESO.
3. Again, just like #1, ZOS know they screwed it up.
4. I've been seeing that for 4 years straight now, so I'm no longer feel anything.
5. Yep, totally.
Btw, do I get any bonus for getting into your "questionable individual" list?- Can you link me something in which they actually state "We know we failed hard", and not just a few words in the patch notes like downscaling of DoT damage from 2.5x to 1.25x?
- How can you make spammables useful without nerfing DoT damage? If spammables offer no clear advantage compared to DoTs there no benefit of ever using them
- You get extra scrutiny from me when I dissect your posts for being on the list, though you can redeem yourself by making logical arguments using precise language with no generalizations
1. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/492415/update-24-combat-preview#latest
2. Well the other option is to buff spammable, which will only feed into the power creep problem, which will probably cause more harm than good. I know that nerfing is not an ideal solution, and nobody wants to see their characters got butchered, yet this is the most effective way (if done correctly) to balance multiplayer games in general.
3. Ummmm, can I get a refund? Cause I'm pretty sure I've just generalized in section #2.
Quote from the link provided: "However, it’s swung the pendulum a bit too far in the other direction. As we’ve stated before, our audit pass doesn’t mean our numbers are engraved in stone, and this is a case where we missed the mark and are looking to correct that."
As far as DoTs are concerned with U23 they opted for a 2.5x scaling, now with U24 that is down to a 1.25x scaling, and they call a 180° in scope the "pendulum swung a bit too far".
That's the perfect example of being clueless, having no scope and not even the integrity to admit how badly you failed if you need to package it as an euphemism, downplaying several weeks of U23 PTS + the time until U24 to mask your utter failure of letting something like a 2.5x DoT scaling get released to live server.Edited by daedalusAI on September 17, 2019 3:28PM2 -
BlackMadara✭✭✭✭When you list the changes done broadly, it doesn't seem bad. The issue is the magnitude of the changes. Dot damage is now reduced to lower levels than before update 23 while costing much, much more. ESO pvp has been burst focused for a long time. The last update allowed other options. Now dots are weaker than ever before and burst will rule over all mich higher than ever2
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dots did creep up...but nerfing them to make 90% useless is like... Ok? My rending went down half.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Try to kill Eternal Servant on Hard Mode Nahviintas after this patch goes live. Then you'll see.0 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I mean, anyone who thinks
probably isn't going to understand the problems a lot of people will be having.100k dps as a norm
Man, oh man, astonishing how much of a bubble some of us live in."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle2 -
Sennecca✭✭✭Dottzgaming wrote: »I'm going to steal my response from another thread. I think the hate stems from the fact that people are getting burnt out and exhausted because of the extreme balance swings we've seen in 2019.
While people can always argue the validity of a change, whether it's good or bad, etc, the fact of the matter is the game has been seeing increasingly dramatic buff/nerfs swings (i mean just look at these %'s on the patch notes the last 2 patches) and people are getting tired of it.Dottzgaming wrote: »Honestly, if this keeps happening, they will continue to drive more and more players away from their game.
If you look at Elsweyr, Scalebreaker, and Dragonhold, it looks like 3 totally different games with 3 totally different intended playstyles combat wise.
They need to just pick a direction and run with it, because this constant ping ponging of intended design philosophy is exhausting and burning their player base out.
I had 4 friends who quit WOW and were really enjoying ESO a little over 2 years ago. After the first major shake-up they said.."well, mmo's change things now and then. It's good to change things up. After the Next change, they said "Ok, I don't agree with some of the changes, but I can live with adapting. After 5.0, they logged in, collected their daily rewards and logged out in case they decided to play again at some point in the future. They don't even log in anymore. They work for a living and don't enjoy spending the time they do have to play trying to figure out what to do with the lastest nerfs and buffs.
Myself, i log in and waste time. I gave up trying to make builds because what i make doesn't last long enough to enjoy it. I Loved this game, but am now experiencing extreme change fatigue/burnout and what makes it worse is that it's said that this is just the beginning as they are still going to "audit" other skills.5 -
adirondack✭✭✭✭✭Dottzgaming wrote: »I'm going to steal my response from another thread. I think the hate stems from the fact that people are getting burnt out and exhausted because of the extreme balance swings we've seen in 2019.
While people can always argue the validity of a change, whether it's good or bad, etc, the fact of the matter is the game has been seeing increasingly dramatic buff/nerfs swings (i mean just look at these %'s on the patch notes the last 2 patches) and people are getting tired of it.Dottzgaming wrote: »Honestly, if this keeps happening, they will continue to drive more and more players away from their game.
If you look at Elsweyr, Scalebreaker, and Dragonhold, it looks like 3 totally different games with 3 totally different intended playstyles combat wise.
They need to just pick a direction and run with it, because this constant ping ponging of intended design philosophy is exhausting and burning their player base out.
Absolutely completely agree. Power creep has gotten to extreme levels, but its the constant changes pendulum swings that get depressing. Despite whether you do or do not agree about power creep (I tend to believe overland is far too easy in current meta) people are getting very discouraged about having to change builds so frequently.
I do a lot of theory crafting (or stealing; sometimes called research) and work with 17 characters. If U24 goes live without changes, I just don't feel I have the energy to redo all my builds yet again.
Despite the arguing, I believe many forum warriors are 100% correct about overland being too easy. ZOS has a choice to either adjust the overland or force the player community to adjust their builds. Again.
And after doing the main quest, Caldwell's Silver/Gold, all the DLC now on 17 chars... frankly I don't care much. I PvP and do trials. Everything else is just noise to me. So if I get to a point where the view isn't worth the climb because I have to adjust my characters for the 4th time in a 12 month cycle... maybe that's ok too.
Well said, Dottz.
Ray2 -
InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most of my builds are getting a slight nerf to healing due to Structured Entropy working differently (if I understand it right). However also most of my builds are getting slight buffs.
Furthermore the dot meta in PvP will be stopped which is a plus.
The only thing that I dont like is how they treat knockback. Javelin was fine. I prefer more range over some armor piercing.0 -
Wayshuba✭✭✭✭✭1. ZOS do a 180 because they know that they screwed it up in Update 23, they've admitted to it, and we all know that it would happen.
Here is the issue really.
When ZoS did their dissertation prior to the class changes at U22 they seemed like they had a plan of what they were targeting numbers to get to as a result of the "audit".
In U22 there were some changes that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Altmer, mainly used for magicka classes, getting an ability that restores their lowest resource - which is usually stamina. Just what every magicka build needs, a restoration of the resource they barely use.
In U23 on PTS there was a TON of feedback about the DoTs being overtuned. All of it was ignored and they went live with it anyway.
Now here we are at U24, and they are dialing it back. But many things are being dialed back to be less than they were at U22 (like Twin Slashes for example). So which is it? You increased the bleed by 37% as a result of their fictitious "audit" only to dial it back 63% in U24 - which means the skill will do less than it did at U22. This is just a small example that proves their was no audit, nor is their a goal they are trying to get to. They are swinging for the fences each patch and keeping their fingers crossed that it works. Things were better with Summerset than they are now.
What this shows is a team that hasn't the foggiest clue of what they are shooting for. This is why it is so erratic and frustrating from patch to patch. What most realized from the stream is the "audit" was complete marketing doublespeak for we want to change things just to change things but we haven't an idea what we are shooting for.
We are FIVE YEARS into this game. This kind of patch to patch wild swings are completely and utterly unacceptable at this point. I have played many MMOs and I have never witnessed an MMO team this all over the place with class balancing.
In addition, here is one bit of feedback from U23 that shows how they do not listen at all. The big issue with the DoT meta, was outside the Templar and Necromancer, there was no viable counter for other classes because Purge was too costly. All they needed to do this patch to correct that was cut the cost of Purge by 50%. So if Purge, which costs of 4500 today is too costly a skill to use WHY ARE THEY INCREASING THE COST OF SO MANY SKILLS TO BE NEAR 5,000 to use them? Have you seen some of the asinine costs of skills now on PTS? And many of those skills are having their damage halved?
People are upset because they already KNOW, like they did with the U23 PTS Patch Notes, things are going to get WORSE, not better. Which means ZoS will once again, with U25, do another 180.
I can say, with certainty, there are many people getting completely fed up with this. That is why you see the over the top rage now - people are fed up. ZoS management best reign this out of control combat team in quickly or they are going to find it is going to start hurting them in the pocket book.
Edited by Wayshuba on September 17, 2019 7:14PM5
