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How to make PvP more friendly and inviting to PvErs?
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Add REAL END GAME trials with bis gear not in pve locations, but in cyro.
Block enter to it with few restrictions:
1. Your alliance may have emp right now, or you can't enter.
2. Your character may have 50k+ ap farmed this day to enter.
Mmorpg is about playing with people, not quests or lore, and this will make people play together and coop.
Imperial City was originally intended to work similiarly, where your alliance had to own portions of Cyrodiil to unlock the City for your farming pleasure.
You'll also note that it doesn't work that way.
That's a strong hint about the viability of your suggestion.5 -
HowlKimchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Add REAL END GAME trials with bis gear not in pve locations, but in cyro.
Block enter to it with few restrictions:
1. Your alliance may have emp right now, or you can't enter.
2. Your character may have 50k+ ap farmed this day to enter.
Mmorpg is about playing with people, not quests or lore, and this will make people play together and coop.
MMOs are about allowing people to play together but not forcing them. People will hate your suggestion.
i said mmorpg, not mmos. its diff genres
but eso more like mmos for sure.
MMORPGs are a subset of the MMO genre0 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The divide is too great.
Never going to happen.
Nope it won't.
In everyone of these types of threads posters seem to think you can change one thing to PvP and players will come running to participate. The fact is there are a multitude of reasons players don't like or want to PvP and most have nothing to do with being killed though they might be the most vocal group. To talk through of what I consider the more common:
IMO the largest group of never PvP players just don't have a highly competitive nature so aren't stimulated by being better than someone else or motivated by being beaten by another player. This ties into competitiveness somewhat but you will also have a large group of players age out. As many people get older and accomplished they see less reason to be competing all of the time. Age also slows some folks down so activities that require better reflexes tend to go to the wayside.
There is also the case that in PvP the opponent toon represents a real person. This changes the dynamics of a fight and while you aren't really killing the player behind the toon it isn't that great of a difference philosophically for many folks. Again there is nothing you can do to make PvP palatable to this group.
As has been stated in other posts there is also a group that doesn't like the behavior (i.e. the infamous toxicity) exhibited by a number of PvP players. This behavior covers everything from ganking before someone get through a door to things like teabagging or taunting a defeated pplayer. Some of this boorish behavior also exists in PvE and is not better or worse than that attributed to PvP. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if a large percentage of the game's jerks are both PvP and PvE players. You can see proof of the both sides argument just by reading the forums as there are plenty of post from both about player toxicity. As to PvP you might be able to draw in some of these players if they saw more sportsman like conduct from opponents. I doubt this could be accomplished as it would near impossible to enforce in the game itself and the PvP community by and large doesn't appear to want to enforce behavior themselves.
To further complicate things I think most players that don't want to PvP have a combination of reasons so even if you resolved one area it wouldn't be enough to override the secondary reasons. My own feelings are primarily the philosophical thing with fighting someone who I know is a real person and seeing no need to be competitive at my point in life. For this same reason I don't do high level PvE content or care about leader boards and the like. Before retiring I had enough competition in real life that I just wanted to unwind by killing a few monsters, crafting a few items or decorate a house. Nothing will get me to participate in PvP. That being said I do go to Cyrodiil during Midyear Mayhem to run PvE content. I only enter the unranked instances and pick them based on population and color. I have been killed on occasion but it was only two or three times per event and not by groups but single gankers getting their jollies. I don't fight back so I don't understand what they find fun about this so called PvP but it is tolerable for the number of hours of uninterrupted PvE play I get. I also avoid battle areas and will leave if it gets too populated by the other factions.
I don't know if this will work for IC due to its size but I think for an event like this if ZOS were to create non-ranked instances like they do for Midyear Mayhem it would make an environment that is more tolerable for PvE players. Based on Cyrodiil the more serious PvP players stuck to the instances that were ranked and where real PvP took place. The non-ranked instances still had PvP but when it happened was generally between folks of similar skill levels or the rare ganker who was usually easy to avoid once you knew they were in the area. Then again due to Tel Var it might not work but it is worth throwing out there as a possible middle road.8 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »TheRealPotoroo wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »No pve means less players coming in to get killed for the pvp population
There's tons of posts about sewer gankers at base and bemoaning getting farmedRave the Histborn wrote: »Let people have fun, you're just miserable about it for no reason.
Utterly, utterly clueless.
LOL 3 out of context quotes.
If you come to a pvp zone you are going to have to pvp, I know this is shocking, and hurts you inside but there's a reason for it. It is used to control the amount of Tel Var in the economy.
"There's tons of posts about sewer gankers at base and bemoaning getting farmed"
Let me put this simply. If you are getting farmed or you are posting about getting farmed at the sewer base you have no one to blame but yourself. There's 6 other exits to the sewers that you can use to bypass the entrance. You can also form a group to kill the gankers. This doesn't happen, you go out one by one and die and have no idea why.
"Let people have fun, you're just miserable about it for no reason"
Yes, some people like IC, some like to gank, some even like the risk of being ganked. The thrill of making it all the way back to your base after farming all the way to center is an example. Just because some people aren't capable of competing doesn't mean others aren't.
No, they were not out of context. They neatly, accurately and honestly summarized your argument and its fundamental flaw, which is that you think killing PVE players is fun and they have no right to be unhappy about it.
PS: In case anyone missed one of your earlier examples of your cluelessness:Rave the Histborn wrote: »PVP is a different playstyle and mindset and it is meant to cater to the better playersEdited by TheRealPotoroo on September 15, 2019 3:12PMPC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505234 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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What's your problem, care to elaborate? "lol no" is not a very constructive answer
Or even better: rework Impen trait to make PvE gear actually usable in PvP.Make switching gear and skills easier and i will play pvp more.
Make Impen work similarly to how Reinforced works now: armor gives you some base crit resist, and Impen boosts that by ~30%.
Then set up the scaling so that using 7x impen results in the same crit resist as it does now.
lol, no.
Doing it this way would change very little in the current PvP meta, since most everyone is already using 7x impen.
The exception being bomb specs and some glasscannon builds, but neither is particularly popular due to lack of versatility.
Besides, it would not change the fact that there is very little overlap between good PvE sets and good PvP sets.
What it would change, however, is that even not using impen at all would give the player a fighting chance.
They would still be at a disadvantage (lower crit resist without 7x impen, suboptimal PvE set choices for PvP) but at least they would not melt instantly.2 -
fgoron2000✭✭✭✭Not everyone plays games to compete with other players. A lot of people aren’t wired that way. They’re not better or worse players than people who do, just different kind of players. Just accept it. It also doesn’t mean that they’re “scared” of PvP. Some people just don’t like it and prefer to do other aspects of the game with their time, again doesn’t make them any better or worse than people who like PvP.
Me? You’ll never get me to like the PvP in this game unless it changes drastically, which is unreasonable, so I stay out of it unless I need warhorn/Vigor.
I don’t mind PvP in some other games in medium doses but I just hate competing with other players, that’s not why I play video games. I do however like to co op with players, hence why I like dungeons and trials.
Different people like different things.
^^^^This exactly...
I came to this game to play with others in a game world that I love, not to play against others. Nothing will draw me to the PvP aspect of the game for that reason. I don't want to change the PvP aspect of the game for those who enjoy PvP, but I do want a PvE instance of the zone, so that I can enjoy the zone itself without having to put up with the players who do want to play PvP. I've done what I had to, to get the needed skills unlocked on my various alts, and I don't expect to go back if I don't need to for something specific.
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iamkeebler✭✭✭✭There is no need to create a PvE instance of PvP. This part of the game was designed to create a different experience and add variety to the play styles and give us some other challenge than the ones the devs create for us. Refusing to play that part of the game and demanding a PvE version of it is ridiculous in my opinion. Just create a PvP specific toon or go into a low populated campaign (bring some friends along too) if you want to do the questing part. Part of the fun is the challenge to meet your objective knowing danger is all around you.0 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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While I certainly understand and respect your opinion, you are not the kind of player that this discussion is about.fgoron2000 wrote: »I came to this game to play with others in a game world that I love, not to play against others. Nothing will draw me to the PvP aspect of the game for that reason.
To clarify, this is about players who would consider playing PvP, but are discouraged by the high barrier to entry.
Obviously, if someone doesn't want to PvP for personal reasons, then no amount of convincing and/or help will get them to enjoy such activities.
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fgoron2000✭✭✭✭iamkeebler wrote: »There is no need to create a PvE instance of PvP. This part of the game was designed to create a different experience and add variety to the play styles and give us some other challenge than the ones the devs create for us. Refusing to play that part of the game and demanding a PvE version of it is ridiculous in my opinion. Just create a PvP specific toon or go into a low populated campaign (bring some friends along too) if you want to do the questing part. Part of the fun is the challenge to meet your objective knowing danger is all around you.
Why would I create a PvP-specific toon when I quite clearly stated that I have no interest in playing PvP? I also didn't demand a PvE version, I simply said that it's what I would want from that zone, it wasn't a demand. Fun is in the the eye of the beholder, by the way.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
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What's your problem, care to elaborate? "lol no" is not a very constructive answer
Or even better: rework Impen trait to make PvE gear actually usable in PvP.Make switching gear and skills easier and i will play pvp more.
Make Impen work similarly to how Reinforced works now: armor gives you some base crit resist, and Impen boosts that by ~30%.
Then set up the scaling so that using 7x impen results in the same crit resist as it does now.
lol, no.
Doing it this way would change very little in the current PvP meta, since most everyone is already using 7x impen.
The exception being bomb specs and some glasscannon builds, but neither is particularly popular due to lack of versatility.
Besides, it would not change the fact that there is very little overlap between good PvE sets and good PvP sets.
What it would change, however, is that even not using impen at all would give the player a fighting chance.
They would still be at a disadvantage (lower crit resist without 7x impen, suboptimal PvE set choices for PvP) but at least they would not melt instantly.
Maybe the fact that choosing impen or not chosing it makes it a build choice between damage and defense, or passive defense and sustain? How about that for starters?
EDIT: And to be honest, I think anyone suggesting something so silly is just looking for a buff to their build instead of sacrificing.Edited by Kadoin on September 15, 2019 2:47PM0 -
iamkeebler✭✭✭✭I also said “or go in on a low populated campaign with friends” - fun is in the eye of the beholder. I just think it’s sad that people write off enjoying/trying/experiencing the PvP aspects to the game. I know it isn’t for everyone, but it is an aspect of the game that folks are missing out on and then come to the forums to complain about how they “need” a PvE version of it instead of playing through the content as intended by the developers.1
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Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm avoiding the event because I don't care about the rewards and it's a complete waste of my time.Rave the Histborn wrote: »You on the other hand don't have a tune, you say you love Cyro and you hate IC, then you're going to wait to do the quest lines if it gets done, then you've actually got about a hundred hours in IC from when it was part of Cyro and a few hours in the new campaign. You know all about the event and what people are going through with sewer platforms but you're avoiding this event at the same time.
True, I've only visited IC quite sporadically during this event (as I outlined earlier) - but loadscreen camping of players is nothing new, and the exact same thing was happening during the 5th anniversary event, which I did participate in during the PvP week.
We're getting increasingly off track here, so let's bring things back in line:
The OP's point was how PvP can be made more friendly to newcomers.
My point is that when a new player goes through the sewer door and loads in dead on the opposite side, that sends a very specific kind of message.
The exact kind of message that you do NOT want to be sending to new PvPers, if you want to encourage them to stay and enjoy actual PvP.
Your point that there are alternate paths through the districts is technically valid, but not relevant to the discussion.
The fact remains, that there are exploiters who are engaging in a form of behavior which is extremely destructive to ESO's PvP community in the long term.
And the fact that you are effectively defending the exploiters by trying to handwave the problem away and claiming that "hurr durr it's legit PvP", makes me begin to wonder if you are not actually one of those players.
Heres the thing. If your hypothetical person loads into pvp and dies that is part of the game. It is very very rare for this to happen on a loadscreen outside of this event and if this is something preventing people from joing pvp well they never wanted to pvp in the first place. Death is part of pvp and if dying is going to put you off you shouldn't even bother joining.
It is very much the message you want to be sending people though. You are in a warzone and war is cruel and you are going to die. You need to to think for yourself and be prepared. This isn't pve, the path isnt provided for you, you're going to need to do it on your own. If you're getting ganked going through doors buff up before so if you get attacked you have a chance to fight back.
My point isn't technically valid it is 100% valid and relevant. None of these players need to go through the sewer entrance and if you keep going out and getting farmed it is your fault. There's 8 ways out of the sewers. If you can't figure out how to not get farmed by using a different door then I'm not sure how to help.
There are exploiters in every game though so your point doesn't really stand though. This also isn't an exploit as it has been part of IC since launch, as much as you keep trying to paint it as such. If it was it would be fixed or there would have been an instakill like every other spawn not meant to be accessed. If you choose to LA spam down and someone Dragon Leaps up, not sure what to tell you, that's part of the game and you just gave that player access to the base. It's called taking responsibility.
I'm sorry but you dont just get to label everyone as an exploiter to fit your narrative. If it was an exploit it would have been changed, it isnt, end of story.
Lol I was on White Gold the other night helping people kill 2 griefing NBs that kept dual spamming meteors once you left base spawn. 4 or 5 deaths later and I find them in a different room stealthing (did you know you can find NBs in stealth without detection? Stealth up and use the eye you get. It won't knock them out of stealth but it will be completely open when you're right next to them. You can then spam an aoe and knock them out of stealth) and we fight and I killed them.
PVP is about learning from your mistakes, adapting, and surviving. There is no incentive beyond personal incentive. If you die and it turns you off from a zone completely I get it but you dont go suddenly change that entire zone around for 1% of the population that vocally hate it already.1 -
TheRealPotoroo✭✭✭✭✭
✭iamkeebler wrote: »I also said “or go in on a low populated campaign with friends” - fun is in the eye of the beholder. I just think it’s sad that people write off enjoying/trying/experiencing the PvP aspects to the game. I know it isn’t for everyone, but it is an aspect of the game that folks are missing out on and then come to the forums to complain about how they “need” a PvE version of it instead of playing through the content as intended by the developers.
The developers tried to blend oil and water. The developers were wrong. But that's a different complaint. This thread is about how to "make PvP more inviting and friendly for PvErs." Thus far we have:
PVEers: we find these elements of PVP especially toxic/problematic
PVPers: oh no, you can't touch that!PC NA, PC EU
"Instead of taking the best of the dolmens (predictable rotation), the best of the geysers (scalability based on number of players), and the best of the dragons (map location and health indicators) and adding them together to make a fun and dynamic world event scenario, they gave us....... harrowstorms." https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6850523/#Comment_68505233 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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Wait, what.Maybe the fact that choosing impen or not chosing it makes it a build choice between damage and defense, or passive defense and sustain? How about that for starters?
Every viable PvP build that I know of, involves using at least 4x Impen, and most commonly 7x (all) Impen.
In the current meta, the only ways you can survive without Impen are either to burst down the enemy before they can do any real damage to you (glasscannon builds; bombers also fall in this category), or to stand on keep walls and spam Snipe.
A lot of people I know dislike the fact that Impen is virtually 100% useless outside of PvP, and pretty much required in PvP.
This is not only an inconvenience, it also greatly limits PvP build diversity (hurr durr use Impen on all pieces).4 -
iamkeebler✭✭✭✭I’ve seen many people making lots of suggestions to PvE players on how to make it better and more enjoyable - create a PvP focused toon, get in a group, block problematic toxic players, go into a non cp campaign if not cp, expect death, report those jumping onto the base platforms, etc. Except the PvE players I’ve seen on this thread have made it pretty clear they have no intention of trying to learn/enjoy these zones. 🤷♀️0
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Agenericname✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agenericname wrote: »The question is, not how to make PVP friendly to PVERS, but how to make all the casuals (which looks like its 95% of the community) to become decent at the game.
I swear, roaming in IC and slaying these pugs is not even fun, 95% of the players i met couldnt even do basic stuff, such as break free, etc..(Most were high CP lvl)
I'm sure that's a possibility, but I've also gone from 100% to a full death recap in less than a second.
I probably should have broken free, except I didn't know I was taking damage.
They're probably better off trying it when there isn't an event. The spawn camping will turn more away than it will bring in.
What you describe is ganking, and if u got one-shotted before being able to break free (In ur case, before even knowing what's happening), That's on u for not running a decent build that can survive gankers.
Like i said, Decent players.
You can't complain about dying when running naked into a sword fight. soz.
No, I'm not talking about gankers. They haven't really been a huge issue for me in a while. I have run into exactly one during this event that posed a serious threat.
What Im talking about is the "health desync." The second video in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/273404/what-is-a-health-desync
They can still kill me, don't get me wrong, I'm a thick skinned potato, but at just under 3k crit resist, 25-30k resists, and 28k health I should at least see what's killing me.2 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
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HAHAHAHAHARave the Histborn wrote: »There are exploiters in every game though so your point doesn't really stand though. This also isn't an exploit as it has been part of IC since launch, as much as you keep trying to paint it as such. (...) If it was an exploit it would have been changed, it isnt, end of story.
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Because we all know that ZOS is very quick about fixing all bugs and exploits in their game
Thank you, this really made my day just now 7 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »PvE players hate pvp because they intuitively feel like they’re playing at a disadvantage... and they are.
When I switched from pve to pvp in this game I didn’t have all impen and just got destroyed repeatedly. It takes a long long long time to get the transmutation stones to retract gear in pve. It’s faster in pvp but by the time your average player has the stones they’re sick of it.
The only reason I kept playing pvp was because I have a pvp background. I can guarantee you most would have given up.
You dont have to use transmute crystals just to start PVP, especially if the person has been playing PVE for a while. There are lots of viable craftable and overland sets that already come in impen that's very easy to get...
Can someone who is new to PvP reeeally expect to do well with 3x agility jewels, an asylum greatsword and a crafted set though?TheRealPotoroo wrote: »iamkeebler wrote: »I also said “or go in on a low populated campaign with friends” - fun is in the eye of the beholder. I just think it’s sad that people write off enjoying/trying/experiencing the PvP aspects to the game. I know it isn’t for everyone, but it is an aspect of the game that folks are missing out on and then come to the forums to complain about how they “need” a PvE version of it instead of playing through the content as intended by the developers.
The developers tried to blend oil and water. The developers were wrong. But that's a different complaint. This thread is about how to "make PvP more inviting and friendly for PvErs." Thus far we have:
PVEers: we find these elements of PVP especially toxic/problematic
PVPers: oh no, you can't touch that!
Imagine putting virtually l no time into a game mode while other people put time and effort into it. You then go in and decide you dont like it and it needs to all be changed. Then when the people that have experience there tell you just need to put in time and effort to understand how everything works you tell them no that's toxic and problematic.
The developers weren't wrong, there's demand for pvp and it makes sense in the story setting. Just look at WoW, they have PvPE servers where you could engage in pvp anywhere. Guilds would set up raids to opposing cities and lowbie zones and that was part of the fun. It gave all the zones a lot of life because at anytime an entire pve town could be under attack.
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Bealeb319✭✭✭✭It would never happen but a system where you lose damage based off a killstreak would be interesting. It would make it more challenging for the players who are good at PvP while making it somewhat easier for those who are either not good at PvP or not PvP players? Somewhat of a compromise?0
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Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »
-snip -
The developers weren't wrong, there's demand for pvp and it makes sense in the story setting. Just look at WoW, they have PvPE servers where you could engage in pvp anywhere. Guilds would set up raids to opposing cities and lowbie zones and that was part of the fun. It gave all the zones a lot of life because at anytime an entire pve town could be under attack.
WoW had PvP all the time servers and got rid of them because the population continued to drop to the point that there wasn't much PvP happening at all. Even with the change to all normal servers you have to flag to be able to PvP. While I can't speak to the current version it went so far that the players demanded that they be given the option to be able to set an unconditional never PvP flag so they didn't accidentally enter it by targeting another faction's player. Again this is dated but even when the opposing faction came to attack a town very few players actually joined in the PvP action. Most just kept on doing whatever PvE thing they were when it all started up.4 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Impen is the defacto PvP trait. To think you could enter a PvP zone without it is a recipe for disaster. It’s not unreasonable to farm multiple sets of gear for different content.1 -
belial5221_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I don't goto PVP often,except events,dead campaigns,mostly controlled by my alliance.I don't oppose PVP,but don't like the current system.Easiest solution...making 2 versions of whole game,PVP only and PVE only,then PVP players can have the whole world to kill in, and PVEers can enjoy quests and exploration,since game is separated pretty much anyway.I know some will like ideas,and some will dislike some things,but atleast this is more a constructive reply.
PVP not jsut AVA:
Making it true pvp(allow killing players even in your alliance) except in/near banner cities,keeps,and/or bases,would put a fresh spin on pvp.Otherwise they should just rename everything called PVP to AVA,since it's not truly PVP, just semi-PVP, since you can't attack players in your alliance.
Something disabled player friendlier:
A few people want to enjoy Cyrodiil but can't,because of disabilities,is another factor people forget about.Telling someone with limited movement,vision,hearing issues,etc to practice,get good,get better stuff will almost never help.A second PVE without the PVP rewards like AP,TV,emperor,etc. would help those players also.Maybe even a system to prove permanent disability to get into a limited PVE version of Cyrodiil/IC.
Practice PVP NPCs:
Most PVEers complain because they try to goto a quest area,and get ganked by high level or zerg mobs,then get told to "get good" like it's a magic thing to just buy in the crown store.Then they stop going all together cause it's pointless to get killed over and over with no way to finish quests,or have to wait til zone dead or their alliance controls area,which is frustrating.There needs to be a better way to practice without losing all your telvar/AP,like training NPCs that will attack with level and skills of a real player randomly,not generic easy few attacks,or something.
Remove rewards on kill,or increase risk for all players:
Could also remove getting tel var and alliance points on player kill,unless it's attacking/defending a keep/banner city,or they make it true pvp and keep the currency on kill if it's ANY player that can get killed,not just other alliance players.Also,removing alliance target marker over heads would make people think twice about attacking another player,since it could cause tensions within the alliance.This way it keeps people PVPing more like it was intended,and brings risk up for all.
A bit more balanced PVP:
Have all who enter Cyrodiil/IC have 810 CP and all skills maxed while there,and would revert when they leave.This way you still have to choose your skills for bar,how to allocate CP points(stays same everytime you enter unless paid to change like normal),and gear you use.No more disadvantaged low levels,so they can actually defend and attack better.This would make it a bit more challenging,and should make it more fun for PVPers.Also,everyone's skills,attributes,CP points should be a saved on server as a different setup,so you can go between PVP and PVE without having to pay to change all those things every time.0 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
-snip -
The developers weren't wrong, there's demand for pvp and it makes sense in the story setting. Just look at WoW, they have PvPE servers where you could engage in pvp anywhere. Guilds would set up raids to opposing cities and lowbie zones and that was part of the fun. It gave all the zones a lot of life because at anytime an entire pve town could be under attack.
WoW had PvP all the time servers and got rid of them because the population continued to drop to the point that there wasn't much PvP happening at all. Even with the change to all normal servers you have to flag to be able to PvP. While I can't speak to the current version it went so far that the players demanded that they be given the option to be able to set an unconditional never PvP flag so they didn't accidentally enter it by targeting another faction's player. Again this is dated but even when the opposing faction came to attack a town very few players actually joined in the PvP action. Most just kept on doing whatever PvE thing they were when it all started up.
The overall population of WoW has had a pretty sharp decline overall so it makes sense to just use one streamlined type. They didn't drop until 2018 though so that's 14years and maybe half of that was peak activity. That's still a sizeable demand so ESO having one zone dedicated to it makes sense.0 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, I doubt they will ever be able to rid of lag and game crashing, but probably been mentioned many times over. If the long arse loading screen doesn't pop up so many damn times during a fight, then PvP in Cyrodiil will surely be more inviting. They have improved on the lag and weapon swapping delay issues (kudos to the ZOS team on that; that crapshoot was horrible), but those damn loading screen popping up turned me off again from PvPing.
Would also like to see more options of getting good amount of AP, other than attacking and defending keeps and whatnots over and over again. It just becomes too repetitive for me and really like doing a chore, rather than having fun playing a game. I still scratch my head on how so many have been PvPing in Cyrodiil for years. I would have to be high and buzzed to do PvP for so long; fortunately, I don't do either. Although, with the zone chat atmospheric in Cyrodiil, it seems so many are. Ha ha1 -
Alinhbo_Tyaka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rave the Histborn wrote: »Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »
-snip -
The developers weren't wrong, there's demand for pvp and it makes sense in the story setting. Just look at WoW, they have PvPE servers where you could engage in pvp anywhere. Guilds would set up raids to opposing cities and lowbie zones and that was part of the fun. It gave all the zones a lot of life because at anytime an entire pve town could be under attack.
WoW had PvP all the time servers and got rid of them because the population continued to drop to the point that there wasn't much PvP happening at all. Even with the change to all normal servers you have to flag to be able to PvP. While I can't speak to the current version it went so far that the players demanded that they be given the option to be able to set an unconditional never PvP flag so they didn't accidentally enter it by targeting another faction's player. Again this is dated but even when the opposing faction came to attack a town very few players actually joined in the PvP action. Most just kept on doing whatever PvE thing they were when it all started up.
The overall population of WoW has had a pretty sharp decline overall so it makes sense to just use one streamlined type. They didn't drop until 2018 though so that's 14years and maybe half of that was peak activity. That's still a sizeable demand so ESO having one zone dedicated to it makes sense.
I won't disagree that the ESO implementation making sense and unless the game is 100% PvP I feel is the better way to do it. I played normal servers on WoW my full time of playing there. For the most part PvP was a very small part of the player base on the servers I played on. Even with WoW there was this idea that everyone would love PvP if we could just make everyone try it. Even the lead developer had this attitude. I think WoW would have been better of if they had acknowledged on normal servers many players were there because they didn't want to PvP. If they spent less time on trying to get PvE players to PvP and more time improving the PvP experience for PvP players I think they would have been in a better position. To that end I think ZOS has done a reasonable job on architecture but it wouldn't bother me if they took some PvE resources to come out with some new stuff for the PvP side.0 -
SpiderCultist✭✭✭✭✭just make mobs t-bag and insult them, just like PvPers do
imagine Molag Kena t-bagging you when wiped and then insulting you...
then they'll get used to itPC | EU
Ashlander and Mephala worshipper.
"You are just another breed of domestic animal, grazing stupidly while higher beings plot your slaughter."1 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Even with what I proposed with the Impen change, you would still need to farm the proper PvP sets to be able to play at a competitive level.Fur_like_snow wrote: »Impen is the defacto PvP trait. To think you could enter a PvP zone without it is a recipe for disaster. It’s not unreasonable to farm multiple sets of gear for different content.
Remember, this is about how could ZOS make things more beginner-friendly, not about how to overhaul the current meta at a high skill level... except for possibly making options other than Impen actually viable in PvP.
That's not even a valid argument.Rave the Histborn wrote: »There are exploiters in every game though so your point doesn't really stand though.
Let me rephrase this nonsense you just spouted, in terms of a real-life example:
Police officer: "You have exceeded the speed limit. You must pay the fine."
Driver: "But everyone else was also speeding!"
Hate to break it to you, but it does not work that way
In any case though, since you have been defending the exploit and the exploiters so valiantly, at this point I'm no longer sure if you're actually that naive, or just trolling.
What I am certain about, however, is that you are a morally bankrupt person, and as such I see no more reason to waste any more time on trying to reason with you.
So long, and thanks for all the fish!5 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Wait, what.Maybe the fact that choosing impen or not chosing it makes it a build choice between damage and defense, or passive defense and sustain? How about that for starters?
Every viable PvP build that I know of, involves using at least 4x Impen, and most commonly 7x (all) Impen.
In the current meta, the only ways you can survive without Impen are either to burst down the enemy before they can do any real damage to you (glasscannon builds; bombers also fall in this category), or to stand on keep walls and spam Snipe.
Only true for the unskilled. You want defense, you sacrifice damage or possible damage you get from all the other traits. Right now, you take the trade off for damage or utility (divines), defense (impen), or sustain (roll reduction and sprint reduction). Do not say this is not a significant trade-off, otherwise why are you advocating the change at all? They can get impen like everyone else. Oh, right "diversity"...what a point...
Also, its almost as if you don't account for the fact rolling and blocking both exist which cuts damage down significantly if you know how to do it. If a PvEr is really skilled then they should know how to roll and block. Its practically required for vMA last I checked, and several group dungeons in the game. If they cannot do it, then they better get some impen or face the consequences.
Everytime someone wants a buff to their build here, I swear they always use the term "diversity". Yeah, change the system and let me use my TBS hybrids in full divines with no drawbacks. Get real.0 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's take the most lefty approach, obviously.
We shouldn't allow players to attack other players in PvP to make it more accessible to PvE players.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know why, but a good portion of those PvErs who hate PvP tend suffer from anxiety when they think of the idea of fighting against other players, and i don't think anything can be done to attract those.VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer2