as much as this is brought up about cyrodill, IC could REALLY use pve and pvp versions.

Wing · September 2019

yes I hate current IC, *MOST* PvP players actually do, because it *could* be good but really got abandoned.

and also every pvp player is going to think this is a pve thread when its not, we could get a great pvp experience out of this.

*OPENING STATEMENT on this design in games*
PvEvP zones never work, especially when you actually lose something. this was a lazy trend in the industry about 5 years ago that figured "hey if we just make it all PvEvP we have to do less work for less effort attract a wider number of players and make MORE MONEY!" all those game went under, some even got cancelled right before release after seeing what failures others had become.
most of the time the zones become a farm zone, where its an unspoken agreement between opposing players that "I wont jump you if you don't jump me"

another problem is by attracting everyone it ends up keeping nobody. you get PvE players, casual PvP players looking to feed on the PvE players, and legit hardcore players looking to rek everyone,
-the PvE players are the first to go, they don't like pvp, they don't like losing stuff, the experience sucks so they go somewhere else.
-the casual PvP players go next, they could only feed on the PvE players and cannot actually PvP on the level of the hardcore players, so they go somewhere else.
-all that's left are the hardcore PvP players, they know the game, know the meta, know the cheese, and have the skill.

so what you end up with is an area / game mode / game designed around a mass of players, that actually only has a tiny group of very hardcore PvP players.

at this point, its dead, nobody can try to even experience it because if your new and wander in a hardcore PvP player (and their group) that know the game like the back of their hand are going to rek you three ways from sunday, over and over, again and again, no chance. so not only do you only have a few players, you cannot even gain new players.

thus, these games died
*END OPENING STATEMENT*

everything that is wrong with overland pvp is made worse in IC (but not in BG's)
in cyro you have a good amount of people looking for fights, but even more that just want AP, they avoid fights, flip empty keeps, run away at the first sign of danger, etc.

this is made worse in IC with telvar, as you actually LOSE telvar upon death. the fight to avoid combat intensifies, the group size for safety intensifies, if a group dies once there is not even a chance of a fight, their done, not risking tel var. constant hiding, stealthing, running away, or getting zerg'd down.

every annoying and dirty tactic in cyro just multiplies in IC.

suggestion? this zone could really use a PvE / PvP only split, as much as its asked for cyro, IC could really use it more.

if the telvar multiplier was removed, and a PvE version was put in so people could fight bosses, do quests, farm, etc. without having to PvP, the zone would be more active.

on the PvP flip side, if telvar was removed, along with the quests, and the city was just designed around being a mid size PvP zone, it would also be much better. IC is an AMAZING zone to pvp in. if the bosses were removed, the amount of mobs and NPC's reduced, and the DOORS between districts removed as a result, so we could seamlessly actually run around the districts it would be great fun. its the ONLY pvp zone like it, and I would love to have a version dedicated solely to that without all the BS and faf that comes with its current form.

whew, yeah, done.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

RodneyRegis · September 2019

I love IC, and I'm not very good at PvP. It's great outside the event, there aren't many people there and most of them are top end 1000 cp+ pvpers. Great for trying things out and getting better. My only change would be that you should only be able to take a maximum of the Tel cars you are already holding from another player, there is nothing more annoying than an elite player taking 5k off you, then you going back and managing to kill them and getting 5 back. There should be a higher risk to taking large numbers of stones.

BigBragg · September 2019

I like it being a mashup of both.

Vapirko · September 2019

I like it as is. Just needs some way to drive population in consistently. I’ve way more fun here than Cyrodiil.

Hamish999 · September 2019

No, it is great as it is.

Kel · September 2019

Take out AP and Telvar rewards and I personally don't care what they turn into a PvE zone anymore.

I mean, they won't. It's far too much work for very little content that would satisfy a very tiny percentage of players that would quickly get bored of either PvE Cyrodiil or PvE Imperial City with the little there is to do there without the PvP aspect, but people won't stop asking, and I really personally don't care anymore.

Edit: Don't come at me with "Telvar can be earned by killing mobs and bosses, so it shouldn't be removed" bull either.
Telvar comes with the risk/reward from getting killed and killing other players. You take out the risk, why should the reward stay? Telvar was never meant to be "farmed" without the risk of PvP death.
Don't be greedy. You want a PvE IC? No problem. You want a risk free IC with all rewards intact? Check your entitlement.

Emma_Overload · September 2019

I don't know if ZOS would remove the doors, but they could make them like the keep doors so that you can always go through them, even in combat. The doors in the sewer should work the same way. This would really even up the imbalance between cloakers and everyone else.

kind_hero · September 2019

I played a bit today and yesterday. I am an average PvPer, so I mind some pvp, but compared to Cyrodiil, IC has many flaws.

Most are in the PvE part which can hadly be enjoyed with the fighting going around. There is nothing more annoying to be ganked just before the quest objective, or when returning to the NPC. Also, the quest markers sometimes make no sense, if you have to return to the Drake of Blades, the quest marker is off, it should point to the sewer not to a district door. Besides this, the quests involving planting the alliance banner can't be done if you are already in the city, you have to die and resurect in the district, or come back from the sewer. Who designed this?

IMO there should be a PvE campaign, without tel var or keys, for people who want to do the quests, get skyshards, get to the crafting areas, etc. I don't mind leaving the Molag Bal boss for the PvP only campaign. I am just saying the PvE questline aspect is ruined by PvP. So maybe in the PvP version, repeating the quests should give extra tel var or some boon, like 10% more tel var, or whatever. But leave the story line outside pvp.

The last thing I want to mention is how ridiculously tanky pvp players have become. I have some experience in pvp, but in the past I do not remember not being able to do any damage to a player at all. Yes, this player was a dragon knight, but hey.. I could not do any damage to him.. quite ridiculous, really.. at one point I gave up, unsheated the weapon and let him finish me. Good thing I do not care about pvp.. but I wonder, do you ppl enjoy this "bullet sponge" pvp?

Reistr_the_Unbroken · September 2019

Kel wrote: »

Don't be greedy. You want a PvE IC? No problem. You want a risk free IC with all rewards intact? Check your entitlement.

Seriously?

ayu_fever · September 2019

reasons why zos should remove pvp OR give us carebears a pve only instance for sewers and cyrodiil:

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry.
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. “we” are not worthy because “we” don't play the “real endgame.”
4. Because PvP players disregard the wants and needs of PvE players when it comes to balance. THEY think they are more important, thus the impact of changes that negatively effect PvE are “irrelevant.” The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of the whiny PvP players and their precious nerfs.
5. Because PvP in a PvE focused game kills the PvE game from the nerfs all in the name of “balance.”

#PVEplayersmatter

Reistr_the_Unbroken · September 2019

ayu_fever wrote: »

reasons why zos should remove pvp OR give us carebears a pve only instance for sewers and cyrodiil:

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry.
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. “we” are not worthy because “we” don't play the “real endgame.”
4. Because PvP players disregard the wants and needs of PvE players when it comes to balance. THEY think they are more important, thus the impact of changes that negatively effect PvE are “irrelevant.” The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of the whiny PvP players and their precious nerfs.
5. Because PvP in a PvE focused game kills the PvE game from the nerfs all in the name of “balance.”

#PVEplayersmatter

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

VaranisArano · September 2019

Imperial City is designed from the ground up as a PvPvE zone. The achievements, quests, rewards, skyshards, and Tel Var are all designed to be obtained with the threat of PVP in mind.

I'm fine with a PVE version, as long as all the rewards, achievements, etc. are removed. If players want the rewards, they should play the actual PvPvE Imperial City as intended.

As a PVPer, the reason I don't play in IC very often is that Cyrodiil fills the PVP niche I like a lot better than IC ever did. I go to Imperial City when I want to play PvPvE specifically for Tel Var or to quest.

Uryel · September 2019

First time I give an "awesome" to a PvP thread. First time I read a sensible one, too, so there's that.

Uryel · September 2019

Kel wrote: »

players that would quickly get bored of either PvE Cyrodiil or PvE Imperial City with the little there is to do there without the PvP aspect

Very little is better than nothing at all. So long as these zones are PvP, I'm doing nothing there unlmess I really have to. I've been playing for almost 5 years and only went to IC because of the event. Not because it's fun or because the PvP aspect appeals to me, it doesn't. Because it's faster than doing the dungeon, even wth all the griefing.

Been to cyrodiil on my main for skyshards and fishing. I'm never going to set foot there ever again, because of PvP. Unless I have to for an event, of course.

The way I see it, PvP is preventing some people from being able to explore some game zones. But then again, I'm pretty extreme about PvP, seing it as a cancer in pretty much every game ever.

bharathitman · September 2019

The thing is both IC(apart from the dungeons) and Cyrodill do not have enough PvE content at all. IC has a very short storyline that can be completed in an hour at max and Cyro has a bunch of random 'go here kill that', 'deliver this' kinda quests.

If you make IC a PvE zone there would be no reason to go there after your first time, at best it will just be a CP/level farming zone that's about it. Cyro would be an empty terrain

AlnilamE · September 2019

OP, considering battlegrounds are my least favourite game mode, I going to just disagree with you right off the bat.

You can stick to the modes you like. Nobody is forcing you to PvP where you don't like to.

Uryel wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

players that would quickly get bored of either PvE Cyrodiil or PvE Imperial City with the little there is to do there without the PvP aspect

Very little is better than nothing at all. So long as these zones are PvP, I'm doing nothing there unlmess I really have to. I've been playing for almost 5 years and only went to IC because of the event. Not because it's fun or because the PvP aspect appeals to me, it doesn't. Because it's faster than doing the dungeon, even wth all the griefing.

Been to cyrodiil on my main for skyshards and fishing. I'm never going to set foot there ever again, because of PvP. Unless I have to for an event, of course.

The way I see it, PvP is preventing some people from being able to explore some game zones. But then again, I'm pretty extreme about PvP, seing it as a cancer in pretty much every game ever.

And that's fine. If people really hate PvP that much that they don't want to set foot in a PvP zone even when it's quiet, that's their prerogative.

TequilaFire · September 2019

You can turn all the bad things said about PvP players right around and say the same things about PvE players.
I know lets get rid of players! /s

Kel · September 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

Don't be greedy. You want a PvE IC? No problem. You want a risk free IC with all rewards intact? Check your entitlement.

Seriously?

Seriously.

Explain to me what's not entitled about wanting all the rewards with no risk involved.

Kel · September 2019

Uryel wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

players that would quickly get bored of either PvE Cyrodiil or PvE Imperial City with the little there is to do there without the PvP aspect

The way I see it, PvP is preventing some people from being able to explore some game zones. But then again, I'm pretty extreme about PvP, seing it as a cancer in pretty much every game ever.

This is like saying everyone should be admitted into vet hardmode trials, since DPS requirements are preventing them from the experience.

You don't get to have it both ways...

DaveMoeDee · September 2019

I don't accept the thesis of the OP because it seemed focused on solo play. Go as groups and the relative skill levels don't matter as much and you have fun, even when you die, due to the social interaction.

The questing though it rough as you will likely be grouped with a lot of people who have done all the questing. Has the same issue that Craglorn had, though less so. You can always watch narrative on YouTube.

Don't really need the PvE only people there.

FakeFox · September 2019

Wing wrote: »

PvEvP zones never work, especially when you actually lose something. this was a lazy trend in the industry about 5 years ago that figured "hey if we just make it all PvEvP we have to do less work for less effort attract a wider number of players and make MORE MONEY!"

Thats why we have world pvp in 10+ year old MMOs.

Alinhbo_Tyaka · September 2019

As a PvE only player while the additional content would be nice I just don't see it worth the effort to create a permanent PvE IC. Making the assumption it would not have PvP rewards then like many other PvE areas after everyone has played through it a few times it would largely become and empty area. Probably even more empty than IC is today when there is no event.

One thing that might work is making the IC during an event like Cyrodiil is during Midyear Mayhem where you have non-ranked instances. These tend to end up being PvE players with some risk of being killed or ganked by PvP so you can justify the PvP rewards. It would also acknowledge the short term nature of the area's PvE content. My gut feeling is it would also require less development work since it is just spawning more than one IC instance and providing access to them.

MojaveHeld · September 2019

This is by far the most reasonable take I've seen about the issues with IC. Well done.

DarcyMardin · September 2019

Went into the IC zone for quests and skyshards exactly once since the DLC was released. It’s the only zone in the game where my main doesn’t have all the skyshards. Never going back.

I don’t mind PvP in Cyrodiil, but this sucks. Let the gankers sate themselves on someone else’s Telvar stones—they aren’t getting my paltry few.

Reistr_the_Unbroken · September 2019

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Went into the IC zone for quests and skyshards exactly once since the DLC was released. It’s the only zone in the game where my main doesn’t have all the skyshards. Never going back.

I don’t mind PvP in Cyrodiil, but this sucks. Let the gankers sate themselves on someone else’s Telvar stones—they aren’t getting my paltry few.

I went there for the pet and skin- never went back and bought them both in under the year I started

But oof my next goal is saving up for a Xivkyn polymorph

Daedric_NB_187 · September 2019

ayu_fever wrote: »

reasons why zos should remove pvp OR give us carebears a pve only instance for sewers and cyrodiil:

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry.
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. “we” are not worthy because “we” don't play the “real endgame.”
4. Because PvP players disregard the wants and needs of PvE players when it comes to balance. THEY think they are more important, thus the impact of changes that negatively effect PvE are “irrelevant.” The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of the whiny PvP players and their precious nerfs.
5. Because PvP in a PvE focused game kills the PvE game from the nerfs all in the name of “balance.”

#PVEplayersmatter

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess you never met an endgame PvEer huh?

idk · September 2019

For as many PvE zones this game has and gets 2 new zones a year OP can deal with the very small two zones Zos designed to have PvP in it or they can enjoy the multitude of zones that are PvE exclusive. It seems to be a tad bit of entitlement to think everything should be available to PvE. In the long diatribe of the OP there is not really any solid reason provided. To suggest it would be more money without anything real to back that up is just words lacking substance. I am pretty sure Zos has a much better idea of the revenue aspect that any of us in this thread.

Edit: and I forgot to add a link to how to get the IC DLC free. That does not seem to be something that will generate revenue.

Beardimus · September 2019

Wing wrote: »

yes I hate current IC, *MOST* PvP players actually do, because it *could* be good but really got abandoned.

and also every pvp player is going to think this is a pve thread when its not, we could get a great pvp experience out of this.

*OPENING STATEMENT on this design in games*
PvEvP zones never work, especially when you actually lose something. this was a lazy trend in the industry about 5 years ago that figured "hey if we just make it all PvEvP we have to do less work for less effort attract a wider number of players and make MORE MONEY!" all those game went under, some even got cancelled right before release after seeing what failures others had become.
most of the time the zones become a farm zone, where its an unspoken agreement between opposing players that "I wont jump you if you don't jump me"

another problem is by attracting everyone it ends up keeping nobody. you get PvE players, casual PvP players looking to feed on the PvE players, and legit hardcore players looking to rek everyone,
-the PvE players are the first to go, they don't like pvp, they don't like losing stuff, the experience sucks so they go somewhere else.
-the casual PvP players go next, they could only feed on the PvE players and cannot actually PvP on the level of the hardcore players, so they go somewhere else.
-all that's left are the hardcore PvP players, they know the game, know the meta, know the cheese, and have the skill.

so what you end up with is an area / game mode / game designed around a mass of players, that actually only has a tiny group of very hardcore PvP players.

at this point, its dead, nobody can try to even experience it because if your new and wander in a hardcore PvP player (and their group) that know the game like the back of their hand are going to rek you three ways from sunday, over and over, again and again, no chance. so not only do you only have a few players, you cannot even gain new players.

thus, these games died
*END OPENING STATEMENT*

everything that is wrong with overland pvp is made worse in IC (but not in BG's)
in cyro you have a good amount of people looking for fights, but even more that just want AP, they avoid fights, flip empty keeps, run away at the first sign of danger, etc.

this is made worse in IC with telvar, as you actually LOSE telvar upon death. the fight to avoid combat intensifies, the group size for safety intensifies, if a group dies once there is not even a chance of a fight, their done, not risking tel var. constant hiding, stealthing, running away, or getting zerg'd down.

every annoying and dirty tactic in cyro just multiplies in IC.

suggestion? this zone could really use a PvE / PvP only split, as much as its asked for cyro, IC could really use it more.

if the telvar multiplier was removed, and a PvE version was put in so people could fight bosses, do quests, farm, etc. without having to PvP, the zone would be more active.

on the PvP flip side, if telvar was removed, along with the quests, and the city was just designed around being a mid size PvP zone, it would also be much better. IC is an AMAZING zone to pvp in. if the bosses were removed, the amount of mobs and NPC's reduced, and the DOORS between districts removed as a result, so we could seamlessly actually run around the districts it would be great fun. its the ONLY pvp zone like it, and I would love to have a version dedicated solely to that without all the BS and faf that comes with its current form.

whew, yeah, done.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Re the doors....

I'm making an assumption here, but IC has doors, smaller zones, and after the previous patch dropped and EVERYwhere had lag IC did not. Cyrodiil was shocking, town was not.

I'd take doors and no lag any day..

Darkenarlol · September 2019

if ZOS ever gonna make IC pve only

the telvar revards should be cut to at least to 1/10 of pve/pvp

no risk = no reward

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · September 2019

I have an idea...make imperial city and cyrodill PvE zones...and enable world PvP… see? everybody benefits!

belial5221_ESO · September 2019

How about just make it TRUE PVP,but allow only certain areas where same alliance can't hurt eachother,like certain area around banners,or in Cyro around banner and keeps.Would stop all the huge zerg groups,and make Cyro/IC more fun for all,not just a small elite community.Though a PVE only version would be nice,remove telvar,AP,empreror,etc so ppl can actually complete quests.