as much as this is brought up about cyrodill, IC could REALLY use pve and pvp versions.

ku5h

I would love it if my main MagSorc wouldn't be so gimped by a Streak bug in there. Now that i use it as a stun, both my defense and offence are on a dice roll.

Girl_Number8

IC is fine the way it is. No reason for Zos to mess it up, which they will do if they try to change things because of some people that get upset during a PvP event.

There are only two PvP events and part of the Jester Festival which is pretty lame.

Considering all the PvE events that there are, I really don't see any reason for the amount of complaining there is over the few PvP events that occur....if they even occur at all.

Perfect example 'Midyear Mayhem'

Taleof2Cities

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

Rave the Histborn

Wing wrote: »

yes I hate current IC, *MOST* PvP players actually do, because it *could* be good but really got abandoned.

and also every pvp player is going to think this is a pve thread when its not, we could get a great pvp experience out of this.


*OPENING STATEMENT on this design in games*
PvEvP zones never work, especially when you actually lose something. this was a lazy trend in the industry about 5 years ago that figured "hey if we just make it all PvEvP we have to do less work for less effort attract a wider number of players and make MORE MONEY!" all those game went under, some even got cancelled right before release after seeing what failures others had become.
most of the time the zones become a farm zone, where its an unspoken agreement between opposing players that "I wont jump you if you don't jump me"

another problem is by attracting everyone it ends up keeping nobody. you get PvE players, casual PvP players looking to feed on the PvE players, and legit hardcore players looking to rek everyone,
-the PvE players are the first to go, they don't like pvp, they don't like losing stuff, the experience sucks so they go somewhere else.
-the casual PvP players go next, they could only feed on the PvE players and cannot actually PvP on the level of the hardcore players, so they go somewhere else.
-all that's left are the hardcore PvP players, they know the game, know the meta, know the cheese, and have the skill.

so what you end up with is an area / game mode / game designed around a mass of players, that actually only has a tiny group of very hardcore PvP players.

at this point, its dead, nobody can try to even experience it because if your new and wander in a hardcore PvP player (and their group) that know the game like the back of their hand are going to rek you three ways from sunday, over and over, again and again, no chance. so not only do you only have a few players, you cannot even gain new players.

thus, these games died
*END OPENING STATEMENT*

everything that is wrong with overland pvp is made worse in IC (but not in BG's)
in cyro you have a good amount of people looking for fights, but even more that just want AP, they avoid fights, flip empty keeps, run away at the first sign of danger, etc.

this is made worse in IC with telvar, as you actually LOSE telvar upon death. the fight to avoid combat intensifies, the group size for safety intensifies, if a group dies once there is not even a chance of a fight, their done, not risking tel var. constant hiding, stealthing, running away, or getting zerg'd down.

every annoying and dirty tactic in cyro just multiplies in IC.

suggestion? this zone could really use a PvE / PvP only split, as much as its asked for cyro, IC could really use it more.

if the telvar multiplier was removed, and a PvE version was put in so people could fight bosses, do quests, farm, etc. without having to PvP, the zone would be more active.

on the PvP flip side, if telvar was removed, along with the quests, and the city was just designed around being a mid size PvP zone, it would also be much better. IC is an AMAZING zone to pvp in. if the bosses were removed, the amount of mobs and NPC's reduced, and the DOORS between districts removed as a result, so we could seamlessly actually run around the districts it would be great fun. its the ONLY pvp zone like it, and I would love to have a version dedicated solely to that without all the BS and faf that comes with its current form.

whew, yeah, done.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

So basically you want to take out the things that make people like IC because you dont like it.

If you take telvar or the multiplier out why would people grind bosses? They wouldn't. Same with PVP, why would you bother with IC when you can already do small scale PVP in BGs. Taking out telvar isnt going to stop gankers. You're just going to get gabked now for the fun of it and not because you might be a telvar whale

ayu_fever wrote: »

reasons why zos should remove pvp OR give us carebears a pve only instance for sewers and cyrodiil:

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry.
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. “we” are not worthy because “we” don't play the “real endgame.”
4. Because PvP players disregard the wants and needs of PvE players when it comes to balance. THEY think they are more important, thus the impact of changes that negatively effect PvE are “irrelevant.” The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of the whiny PvP players and their precious nerfs.
5. Because PvP in a PvE focused game kills the PvE game from the nerfs all in the name of “balance.”

#PVEplayersmatter

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.
2. PVP encourages competition and promotes improvement as a player. Those "immature rivalries" are just general human male competitiveness and is actually pretty positive.
3. Many players disdain pve players because pve players are ready and willing to blame every and all meta changes on pvp, which realistically isn't the cast at all. I also seem to find pve players begging more for easier content, constant nerds to skills, and just in general entitled. They think the game needs to fit their every whim. Imagine if PVP players posted threads about how BS pve events are and how they are forced to grind dungeons. You'd have a conniption.
4. Even if this was true, ZOS does all the balancing. So if theres that many balance changes that are coming out from PVP suggestions maybe they're correct in the first place. PVP players arent making these decisions but we get all the blame for it.
5. This again is ZOS. PVP and PVE players ask for separate balancing for skills, but it is more cost effective and the corporate philosophy to balance everything as one. It also doesn't kill balance, it means balance has to be regulated more often.

Mr_Walker

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

Zos try to encourage more people into PvP, but groups of PvPers seem to feel it's necessary to try to discourage them.

If PvE gets all the content it's because it pays the bills....

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

Zos try to encourage more people into PvP, but groups of PvPers seem to feel it's necessary to try to discourage them.

If PvE gets all the content it's because it pays the bills....

Weird that all these demonic pvp player groups that popped up after ZOS put out an event and gave the dlc for it away for free. Lord knows PVPers dont spent money so they have been waiting specifically for IC to be free to unleash their fury on you.

I'm going to blow your mind here and let you in on a little secret. Those zerg groups killing you are PVE players.

There's safety in numbers and every post on here barring 1 or 2 is hysterics about how tough IC is, there's all these zergs killing people. So what do people that dont know the zone and arent as good at pvp as others? They group up and start killing everything in sight because with that safety they also get reduced telvar even with double TV. Now they need telvar from anywhere because they're 12+ deep and are now getting normal IC tv rates and guess who looks like easy pickings? You. Congrats guys, you just played yourselves. Your inability to adapt and knee jerk hysterics now makes it harder for you to farm and it's people like you doing it to each other. Meanwhile I made 80k tv this morning because I've taken the time to learn a bit of pvp, pack some invisibility potions, and looked st the times I died and asked "What did I do wrong?" vs just blaming it on who killed me.

Mr_Walker

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.

I've never met anyone before who PvPd with zone chat off.

spartaxoxo

Darkenarlol wrote: »

if ZOS ever gonna make IC pve only

the telvar revards should be cut to at least to 1/10 of pve/pvp

no risk = no reward

More like 1/100. It should be much, much, much more efficient to get them in PvP.

That said I do think making two versions is a good idea. It would improve the experience of both types of players. And that should be the goal of any game design changes.

Morgul667

Can we keep one zone with a different playstyle? Cause we like it and this is part of the reason some of us bought it in the first place

All other zones are PVE, one zone is PVP (cyrodill) and one is a mix of both (IC)

I dont think we need to remove PVP from the only 2 zones that exist

Some people actually enjoy PVP and mix of both

(Edit for typo)

Vapirko

ayu_fever wrote: »

reasons why zos should remove pvp OR give us carebears a pve only instance for sewers and cyrodiil:

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry.
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. “we” are not worthy because “we” don't play the “real endgame.”
4. Because PvP players disregard the wants and needs of PvE players when it comes to balance. THEY think they are more important, thus the impact of changes that negatively effect PvE are “irrelevant.” The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of the whiny PvP players and their precious nerfs.
5. Because PvP in a PvE focused game kills the PvE game from the nerfs all in the name of “balance.”

#PVEplayersmatter

Doesn’t get much more toxic and immature than your post lol.

Rave the Histborn

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.

I've never met anyone before who PvPd with zone chat off.

*** talk is part of the fun of pvp, it isn't a lack of respect. I've also done more total PVE then I have PVP and the zone chats in PVE are more toxic then pvp ever could be. At least you have a reason in PVP, everyone is trying to out compete each other. There's none of that in zones in PVE, it's just being "toxic" to each other for no reason.

Wing

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

if PvP made money, or attracted players, you can bet ZOS would focus on it.

it does not.

so they do not.

BigBragg

Wing wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

if PvP made money, or attracted players, you can bet ZOS would focus on it.

it does not.

so they do not.

You never looked around at all the mounts in Cyrodiil have you?

PvP should never have as many zones as PvE, that wouldn't be healthy for it. PvP requires development based around gameplay. That is what Cyrodiil gets. More work than any other zone in the game.

VaranisArano

Wing wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

if PvP made money, or attracted players, you can bet ZOS would focus on it.

it does not.

so they do not.

PVP might attract players if it wasn't plagued by persistent performance issues that ZOS hasn't fixed for years. Even BGs has its own MMR and bugged queue problems.

ZOS really has itself to blame for lackluster PVP the last couple years.

chris211

Wing wrote: »

yes I hate current IC, *MOST* PvP players actually do, because it *could* be good but really got abandoned.

and also every pvp player is going to think this is a pve thread when its not, we could get a great pvp experience out of this.


*OPENING STATEMENT on this design in games*
PvEvP zones never work, especially when you actually lose something. this was a lazy trend in the industry about 5 years ago that figured "hey if we just make it all PvEvP we have to do less work for less effort attract a wider number of players and make MORE MONEY!" all those game went under, some even got cancelled right before release after seeing what failures others had become.
most of the time the zones become a farm zone, where its an unspoken agreement between opposing players that "I wont jump you if you don't jump me"

another problem is by attracting everyone it ends up keeping nobody. you get PvE players, casual PvP players looking to feed on the PvE players, and legit hardcore players looking to rek everyone,
-the PvE players are the first to go, they don't like pvp, they don't like losing stuff, the experience sucks so they go somewhere else.
-the casual PvP players go next, they could only feed on the PvE players and cannot actually PvP on the level of the hardcore players, so they go somewhere else.
-all that's left are the hardcore PvP players, they know the game, know the meta, know the cheese, and have the skill.

so what you end up with is an area / game mode / game designed around a mass of players, that actually only has a tiny group of very hardcore PvP players.

at this point, its dead, nobody can try to even experience it because if your new and wander in a hardcore PvP player (and their group) that know the game like the back of their hand are going to rek you three ways from sunday, over and over, again and again, no chance. so not only do you only have a few players, you cannot even gain new players.

thus, these games died
*END OPENING STATEMENT*

everything that is wrong with overland pvp is made worse in IC (but not in BG's)
in cyro you have a good amount of people looking for fights, but even more that just want AP, they avoid fights, flip empty keeps, run away at the first sign of danger, etc.

this is made worse in IC with telvar, as you actually LOSE telvar upon death. the fight to avoid combat intensifies, the group size for safety intensifies, if a group dies once there is not even a chance of a fight, their done, not risking tel var. constant hiding, stealthing, running away, or getting zerg'd down.

every annoying and dirty tactic in cyro just multiplies in IC.

suggestion? this zone could really use a PvE / PvP only split, as much as its asked for cyro, IC could really use it more.

if the telvar multiplier was removed, and a PvE version was put in so people could fight bosses, do quests, farm, etc. without having to PvP, the zone would be more active.

on the PvP flip side, if telvar was removed, along with the quests, and the city was just designed around being a mid size PvP zone, it would also be much better. IC is an AMAZING zone to pvp in. if the bosses were removed, the amount of mobs and NPC's reduced, and the DOORS between districts removed as a result, so we could seamlessly actually run around the districts it would be great fun. its the ONLY pvp zone like it, and I would love to have a version dedicated solely to that without all the BS and faf that comes with its current form.

whew, yeah, done.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

pvers complaining about dying in a pvp zone GOD BLESS

Runkorko

Yea, name PvE version "walk in the park" or " tourist mode" or why not even "plebs friendly"
So you want high reward, with zero risk.
Right...

Rave the Histborn

Wing wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

if PvP made money, or attracted players, you can bet ZOS would focus on it.

it does not.

so they do not.

PVP does make money it's just not a PVP game. They have to cater to the story. So they do. And you can tell how little they think of you PVE players as you throw cash at them because the last great dlc story was Orsinium.

Kadoin

I don't know about anyone else, but when I PvP I don't find anything entertaining about killing someone that cannot put up a fight or collecting skyshards. I only want prey that can fight back and make me sweat, even if that is a zerg and they kill me

I usually do not attack anyone unless they attack me first (even in BGs). Even then, they have to be able to kill me or be pretty annoying for me to bother killing them. I usually let them go, even if that does make me get ran over by 10-20+ later...

Runkorko

Kadoin wrote: »

I don't know about anyone else, but when I PvP I don't find anything entertaining about killing someone that cannot put up a fight or collecting skyshards. I only want prey that can fight back and make me sweat, even if that is a zerg and they kill me

I usually do not attack anyone unless they attack me first (even in BGs). Even then, they have to be able to kill me or be pretty annoying for me to bother killing them. I usually let them go, even if that does make me get ran over by 10-20+ later...

There is a diference between war and hunt.
Pvers are pray, they dont need to fight back

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.

I've never met anyone before who PvPd with zone chat off.

*** talk is part of the fun of pvp, it isn't a lack of respect. I've also done more total PVE then I have PVP and the zone chats in PVE are more toxic then pvp ever could be. At least you have a reason in PVP, everyone is trying to out compete each other. There's none of that in zones in PVE, it's just being "toxic" to each other for no reason.

Soooo racism, harassment, and other of that kind is “fun” and isn’t a lack of respect? Or did I misread that?

MajBludd

@Reistr_the_Unbroken I've seen all of that in pve. What's your point?

TequilaFire

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.

I've never met anyone before who PvPd with zone chat off.

*** talk is part of the fun of pvp, it isn't a lack of respect. I've also done more total PVE then I have PVP and the zone chats in PVE are more toxic then pvp ever could be. At least you have a reason in PVP, everyone is trying to out compete each other. There's none of that in zones in PVE, it's just being "toxic" to each other for no reason.

Soooo racism, harassment, and other of that kind is “fun” and isn’t a lack of respect? Or did I misread that?

You talking about Riften zone chat?

VaranisArano

TequilaFire wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.

I've never met anyone before who PvPd with zone chat off.

*** talk is part of the fun of pvp, it isn't a lack of respect. I've also done more total PVE then I have PVP and the zone chats in PVE are more toxic then pvp ever could be. At least you have a reason in PVP, everyone is trying to out compete each other. There's none of that in zones in PVE, it's just being "toxic" to each other for no reason.

Soooo racism, harassment, and other of that kind is “fun” and isn’t a lack of respect? Or did I misread that?

You talking about Riften zone chat?

Riften, Craglorn, Stonefalls...all this from PVEers ostensibly doing their own thing, minding their own business!
Glenumbra zone chat, oddly enough is probably the worst hive of scum and villainy I've encountered yet.

That being said, competition makes it worse. Last year's Clockwork City Event turned zone chat so toxic you'd think we were dumping nuclear waste by the barrel into the water supply. People screaming about node snitchers while farming, people yelling at needing to close rifts for the crow WB, people sniping each other for nodes in the underworks, people complaining if no one grouped up or shared dailies...it was a dumpster fire of an event if you judged it by zone chat.

Cyrodiil can be toxic, absolutely, but its the sort of toxic that comes from trying to herd cats towards a common goal. There's lots of hissing and clawing involved.


Its almost like PVPers and PVEers are all people, and people tend to have their fair share of toxic attitudes across the board.

MajBludd

Let's count the whine threads that pvpers post during the next exclusive pve event. Then we can compare those posts to the amount of ic whining posts.
Let's see who posts more entitled threads demanding events be catered to their playstyle.

TequilaFire

How about just playing the frigging game for a change without all the drama queen posts?

StaticWave

ayu_fever wrote: »

reasons why zos should remove pvp OR give us carebears a pve only instance for sewers and cyrodiil:

1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry.
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. “we” are not worthy because “we” don't play the “real endgame.”
4. Because PvP players disregard the wants and needs of PvE players when it comes to balance. THEY think they are more important, thus the impact of changes that negatively effect PvE are “irrelevant.” The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of the whiny PvP players and their precious nerfs.
5. Because PvP in a PvE focused game kills the PvE game from the nerfs all in the name of “balance.”

#PVEplayersmatter

While point #1 and #2 in your statement are correct, you also need to realize that PvE also creates toxic environments and encourages poor attitudes. You may not see them in casual PvE, but in a top tier PvE environment there are many toxic PvErs. It’s just a byproduct of competitiveness. PvP and PvE are similar in that aspect.

idk

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Plus some PvPers claim our opinions are bs and try to shut us down immediately

ayu_fever wrote: »

#PVEplayersmatter

31 PvE zones in the game ... with another one on the way in late October.

2 PvP zones in the game.

Looks like PvE players already have their cake and eat it too ... and that's no BS.

Zos try to encourage more people into PvP, but groups of PvPers seem to feel it's necessary to try to discourage them.

Wait, wut? Zso tries to encourage people to go into PvP but the fact they find people actually doing PvP discourages them is a problem. It is PvP after all. If they are not interested in actual PvP they should avoid going into PvP.

In fact there is not reason for anyone to go into the PvP part of IC for event tickets during this event as they can get it doing PvE in an area safe and sound from other players trying to attack them. They can do their PvE dungeons. It is really that simple.

Vlad9425

Go into IC with the mindset that you will have to enter a PvP fight and always wear PvP gear instead of PvE gear. We don’t need separate IC for PvP and PvE because half of the appeal of the zone is that you can run into opposition when in there.

Rave the Histborn

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

1. You can't say that if you're not playing pvp, you're just assuming. I think most pvp players respect one another.

I've never met anyone before who PvPd with zone chat off.

*** talk is part of the fun of pvp, it isn't a lack of respect. I've also done more total PVE then I have PVP and the zone chats in PVE are more toxic then pvp ever could be. At least you have a reason in PVP, everyone is trying to out compete each other. There's none of that in zones in PVE, it's just being "toxic" to each other for no reason.

Soooo racism, harassment, and other of that kind is “fun” and isn’t a lack of respect? Or did I misread that?

Forgot that's all there is in pvp, theres certainly none of that in PVE.

Also how are you sure about what race people are? Doesn't that mean you have to assume the race of the person behind the username? Hmmmmmmm it's like you're a racist.

You also glossed over that isnt solely a pvp problem, pve players can, will, and have done things like this. People get heated in pvp, it doesn't make it right. There's no reason for it to happen in pve and you glossing over it sounds like you're a race apologist.

jazsper77

Love the hardcore PVP elites who keep crying a broken record risk/reward.
I’ll keep simple b4 the 1v1 me bruh comes in .

Name me 1 event that PvP players have to do in PVE land and have any risk or loss of reward? None.
PVE players should get the same treatment as PVP PLAYERS.

1. Larger part of Pop = PVE
2. .more ESO+ members =PVE
3. Housing Pop= PVE
4. RP pop= PVE
5. WHALES=PVE

PvP brings nothing but Toxicity,bad performance, bad balance,etc

If they shut PvP down ESO would still thrive. If they shut down PVE ESO would be dead in 3 months.

#JUSTFACTS