Tired of "fake tanks" in random queues

Jeremy · August 2019

Kiyakotari wrote: »

When DPS pull, then rush and off leave the tank fighting mobs. @&$# you. You're not being fast, you're being inconsiderate of the fact that your tank hits like a wet noodle and is stuck. Go die in a fire.

It is annoying when they do that.

Katheriah · August 2019

I'm happy if I do a rNormal and I get 4 DD's.

I don't do that shizzle to fill my whole day.

FrancisCrawford · August 2019

ZonasArch wrote: »

I get yelling at a cp810 DD to stand still(still a jerk move, but I get it), any max level DD should be able to take some punishment, but yelling at lowbies is just evil, doesn't even matter of you're a fake tank or not. Panicking is to be expected if you see a hugeass boss jumping on your face and you dont have the skills to take it.

Face tanking can be scary!

I had a BC2 clusterfrack the other night which ended with the effort being abandoned at the last boss. I requeued later in the evening and got a portal straight to the last boss, where there were two DDs waiting (I was healing). I positively refused to try until we were joined by a tank.

Somehow, after the tank joined, I still wound up with several daedroths in my face. So be it; I had experience in that situation after the previous run. The fight actually went fairly quickly. As a bonus, I even got credit for a no-death run.

And that, kiddies, is how I first raised a character to Undaunted 10.

SidraWillowsky · August 2019

Ashtaris wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

As long as there are fake DDs, there will be fake tanks. Deal with it. I won't take a 45 minutes tour through my daily random when I can burn through it with slotted vigor and inner fire in 10 minutes

Fine, then solo the dungeon. Nobody will miss you.

This "fake DD" thing is such BS. So just because someone -who actually IS a DPS char- doesn't pull numbers that you deem acceptable, they're now a fake DD? What does "fake DD" even mean?

I don't care that people have decided that they know what's best for a pug group ("XXX dungeons don't NEED tanks") ... Sure, that's your opinion. It doesn't make fake tanking OK. I've also found that the vast, vast majority of fake tanks are total jerks and blast through the dungeons with no regard for others. If you truly can't stand sitting in a queue for that long, why not JUST MAKE A TANK. As a DPS who patiently waits in the DD queue, it makes it even more annoying when I get grouped with a DPS too selfish to do the same.

I'll just go stand in the corner or something the next time this happens.

D0PAMINE · August 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

I get yelling at a cp810 DD to stand still(still a jerk move, but I get it), any max level DD should be able to take some punishment, but yelling at lowbies is just evil, doesn't even matter of you're a fake tank or not. Panicking is to be expected if you see a hugeass boss jumping on your face and you dont have the skills to take it.

Face tanking can be scary!

I had a BC2 clusterfrack the other night which ended with the effort being abandoned at the last boss. I requeued later in the evening and got a portal straight to the last boss, where there were two DDs waiting (I was healing). I positively refused to try until we were joined by a tank.

Somehow, after the tank joined, I still wound up with several daedroths in my face. So be it; I had experience in that situation after the previous run. The fight actually went fairly quickly. As a bonus, I even got credit for a no-death run.

And that, kiddies, is how I first raised a character to Undaunted 10.

BC II HM can be tricky even with a real tank. I've held 7-8 daedroths in a not so organized group before. Glad I swapped to Leeching lol.

idk · August 2019

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The people OP is trying to talk to either do not frequent the forum or they probably do not care what OP thinks.

What I suggest for OP is to form their own group. Guilds are great for that and we get to have 5 of them. This way you have control of the makeup for the group. This works much better than asking a computer to form up a completely random group for you then complaining in the forums that you got a completely random group.

OP wont bother to form grp for daily dungeon m8.
Its a feking lfg. With roles.
You pick role, you need to fullfil it. Simple.

I was not suggesting that people should not fulfil the roll they queued for. Nothing in my post says that.

I do state very clearly that it is best to form your own group instead of relying on the GF to do everything because that is literally asking for randomness. GF is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you are getting until you bit into it, and that is not really chocolate.

As for a new player, that I edited out, they can still form groups form zone if they have not yet found a guild. However, I would still suggest they find a guild for a multitude of reasons.

Or they can queue in the GF and get what comes their way. That worked so well for the OP.

Edit: and the simple answer for getting a fake tank is to kick them from the group. If you do not at least try to then you are allowing them to fake tank.

rotaugen454 · August 2019

If someone can hold aggi and not die, I’m ok with that. I am NOT ok with subpar DDs who join as a tank to skip DD line and can’t hold aggro so we have group wipes in DLC dungeons. If you join Vet dungeons of any type as a fake tank, that’s an auto boot.

rotaugen454 · August 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

What is a tank? Isn't that a guy in a group that is supposed to absorb as much damage as possible and protect allies this way?

So if I slot Inner Rage and actively use it and not die, am I a tank? No matter what my setup is, right?

Yes, on normal. On vet, a tank is also supposed to debuff enemy and possibly buff group as well. All my tank characters do it all, and I’ve run vet many times while fulfilling the role I signed up for.

azjuwelz · August 2019

Sorry, some of us play at times where there may not be any guildies willing to run a dungeon, so it's not always possible to form a pre-made group.

I really don't think it's too much to ask for players to PLAY the ROLE that they select for.

Select Tank? Be able to taunt (hold aggression on the boss), and be able to withstand damage. Unless it's vet DLC, that's all most of us are asking for.

Healer? HEAL. Pretty simple.

I never assume what kind of dps anyone will be capable in a PUG, so I always slot Vigor, but I prefer not to have to facetank bosses on my stamblade. There's only so many times I can dodge/roll, and it's a pain.

Ozby · August 2019

Yes - and also of DPS who run ahead pulling everything when I'm trying to be a good tank and group enemies up for the team

azjuwelz · August 2019

Ozby wrote: »

Yes - and also of DPS who run ahead pulling everything when I'm trying to be a good tank and group enemies up for the team

It would be really nice if ZOS had some kind of tutorial or message somewhere that gave players basic dungeon etiquette. Maybe in the group finder, as you sign up?

Tank sets the pace.

Again, very, very simple.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2019

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Don't pug = problem solved.

Don't do dungeons you can't solo = problem solved.

Don't ever expect anyone to live up to your standards or do what is expected of them = no more of these silly posts..?

>^^<

You are jk or just plain stupid ? I dont want to ofend you. I rly wondering.
Or you trolling?
There is a ROLE. DONT pick one, if you cant fulfil it. Simple. Even more than you.
Problem solved.

You set expectations in OTHER PEOPLE and call it SIMPLE ?
I'd love to know the recipe for making other people behave the way I want them too, but unfortunately I don't have such recipe and I know for sure it's everything BUT simple.

Don't PUG/Set up your own group is the only, real true working and SIMPLE solution to your issue, really.

BoraxFlux · September 2019

It's a pity there are no numbers known of the roles queueing, reading the threads about groupfinder suggests that there are more DPS roles then healing-tanking combined.
Would a possible solution be to adjust dungeons to a 5 man group, 3x dps 1 healer and 1tank?

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · September 2019

simple fix bind the character to one role on creation screen and incase peeps want to change role make this available but i would say at a cost maybe 500k in game gold

Bobby_V_Rockit · September 2019

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix bind the character to one role on creation screen and incase peeps want to change role make this available but i would say at a cost maybe 500k in game gold

Yeah, but then you’d still have DD’s claiming to be tanks full time instead of just sometimes

MartiniDaniels · September 2019

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix bind the character to one role on creation screen and incase peeps want to change role make this available but i would say at a cost maybe 500k in game gold

This is extremely bad idea, cause many use same character for different roles in different periods.. for example meta changed, and dk became better dps, but nb became better tank, so now my nb dps is tank and dk tank is dps.

The best (but complex) solution will be to implement "undaunted certification", i.e. series of tests with increasing levels of difficulty to determine if character can queue for tank, healer or dps role (more difficult dungeons will require higher lvl of course). In case of CP/attributes change, certification resets.

Nemesis7884 · September 2019

if the fake tank is a 810cp competent damage dealer i take that any day over the 2 dd i just had that did both 10k damage... its fun having 2 hours on a normal dungeon amd falling asleep half way through

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix bind the character to one role on creation screen and incase peeps want to change role make this available but i would say at a cost maybe 500k in game gold

Horrible idea. Particularly bad for magicka specs.

FrancisCrawford · September 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix bind the character to one role on creation screen and incase peeps want to change role make this available but i would say at a cost maybe 500k in game gold

This is extremely bad idea, cause many use same character for different roles in different periods.. for example meta changed, and dk became better dps, but nb became better tank, so now my nb dps is tank and dk tank is dps.

The best (but complex) solution will be to implement "undaunted certification", i.e. series of tests with increasing levels of difficulty to determine if character can queue for tank, healer or dps role (more difficult dungeons will require higher lvl of course). In case of CP/attributes change, certification resets.

Much too complicated.

Any move which makes respeccing costlier or more complicated is in the wrong direction anyway.

LadyNalcarya · September 2019

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

As long as there are fake DDs, there will be fake tanks. Deal with it. I won't take a 45 minutes tour through my daily random when I can burn through it with slotted vigor and inner fire in 10 minutes

Fine, then solo the dungeon. Nobody will miss you.

This "fake DD" thing is such BS. So just because someone -who actually IS a DPS char- doesn't pull numbers that you deem acceptable, they're now a fake DD? What does "fake DD" even mean?

I don't care that people have decided that they know what's best for a pug group ("XXX dungeons don't NEED tanks") ... Sure, that's your opinion. It doesn't make fake tanking OK. I've also found that the vast, vast majority of fake tanks are total jerks and blast through the dungeons with no regard for others. If you truly can't stand sitting in a queue for that long, why not JUST MAKE A TANK. As a DPS who patiently waits in the DD queue, it makes it even more annoying when I get grouped with a DPS too selfish to do the same.

I'll just go stand in the corner or something the next time this happens.

BS or not, but that's one of the reasons why there's not enough support players in pug groups. Not everyone can play all day long, and when you can only play 1-2 hours, it's unreasonable to spend it on wiping with pugs. If you're a dd, you can carry then to some extent, but as a tank there's nothing you can do if your dds cant dps.

MartiniDaniels · September 2019

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix bind the character to one role on creation screen and incase peeps want to change role make this available but i would say at a cost maybe 500k in game gold

This is extremely bad idea, cause many use same character for different roles in different periods.. for example meta changed, and dk became better dps, but nb became better tank, so now my nb dps is tank and dk tank is dps.

The best (but complex) solution will be to implement "undaunted certification", i.e. series of tests with increasing levels of difficulty to determine if character can queue for tank, healer or dps role (more difficult dungeons will require higher lvl of course). In case of CP/attributes change, certification resets.

Much too complicated.

Any move which makes respeccing costlier or more complicated is in the wrong direction anyway.

That test might take 30 seconds. Burn dummy in 30 seconds, heal dummy 30 seconds, survive hard hitting heavy attacks (which one-shot healer/dps through block) for 30 seconds.

Anyway, PUG is PUG, tbh, I don't have any problems with them because dps role is too long to queue alone, so if I level undaunted on dps it is usually pledges with some leveling tanks from guilds and in case you are going as tank role, you obviously can't receive fake tank and if group dps is awful, tank loses nothing because of instant queue.

xeha_arwen11 · September 2019

Just went through normal LoM with a fake tank. Everyone was getting one shotted and it was unbearable. Fake tanking a dlc dungeon, even normal, is incredibly rude. It makes the dungeon far harder than it needs to be, and most of the time the fake tank doesn't even have good dps to make up for their lack of tanking. So tired of all this. This game has become one irritation after the next which is sad since there are several things in this game I really really enjoy doing. I get so many fake tanks it's unbelievable.

Runkorko · September 2019

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Don't pug = problem solved.

Don't do dungeons you can't solo = problem solved.

Don't ever expect anyone to live up to your standards or do what is expected of them = no more of these silly posts..?

>^^<

You are jk or just plain stupid ? I dont want to ofend you. I rly wondering.
Or you trolling?
There is a ROLE. DONT pick one, if you cant fulfil it. Simple. Even more than you.
Problem solved.

You set expectations in OTHER PEOPLE and call it SIMPLE ?
I'd love to know the recipe for making other people behave the way I want them too, but unfortunately I don't have such recipe and I know for sure it's everything BUT simple.

Don't PUG/Set up your own group is the only, real true working and SIMPLE solution to your issue, really.

I set nothing boy. This is how the LFG works. Dont like it, dont use it.
I wont make premade grg to do random normal content just to avoid ppl who dont know their place.
Kick, Ignore. Report. Punish. This is how it need to work.
I dont care what they have in mind when choose to fake role. I dont care that they rush and have no time to wait in que/ when have no time- dont play the game/
Go in other games. Fake role there. Come back and share your expirience. Not to me. I know what gona happen.
Have a nice day.
And btw making premade is seting expectations to other ppl.

Jayman1000 · September 2019

Wispsister wrote: »

Honestly the amount of people who queue for tank (and to a lesser degree, healer) in some cases and just do subpar DPS instead of the role they signed up for is super annoying.
If you queue as a tank, just please actually tank. It's common courtesy to do the role you signed up for. I get DPS queues are bad, but I didn't sit in a half-hour long queue either just to die over and over because we don't have a tank redirecting damage.
And before that that "uwu but if it's a normal then who cares" argument crops up, it doesn't matter what difficulty it is. You're still a jerk. Unless you can nuke everything into orbit and "tank" that way, you should just queue with a friend to cut the lines instead. The roles are there for a reason.

I lost you when you mentioned normal. If only TRUE tanks signed up for normal, then your queue time would be twice as long. Maybe you like waiting twice the time? For normal all you need is to stay alive and to taunt the boss for example slot undaunted inner fire, so you can have it stay in the groups aoe's. Taunt + dont die, fine for normal, you dont have to be more tanky than that. For vet content it's an entirely different matter, especially for DLC dungeons.

ShellaSunshine · September 2019

Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »

Called out a fank tank in lair of maarselok or whatever it's called. As a healer i am not prepared for tanking a dlc dungeon. Esp one i am just now doing for the first time. I wont do most dlc dungeons before raching cp300 even as a healer. Anyway, everyone died as i am trying to keep myself alive and the fake tank started calling me a fake healer... blows my mind. They all kicked him and then later in another dungeon, same person called me out as a fake healer and refused to not stand in the red. Crazy. 3 times i requed. on time after 20 minutes and still got some of the people from that first dungeon who were like so you're a fake healer huh? get out. i refused. They decided to play and we cleared the dungeon quick. Fake tanks can cause a lot of trouble.

Uhm, I have news for you but if you plan on doing raids, you're going to have to tank in the event the tank dies.

My healer can tank quite well. If you're not able to hold aggro and keep yourself alive, you're not a good healer at all.

RexyCat · September 2019

Isojukka wrote: »

Sometimes when i queue up with guildies we dont get that 4th guy and we happen to be 3 DDs so one of us need to be fake tank.no problem in normal non dlc dungeons.

You can't compare a guild group where most in that group know each other and have a "fake tank" just to be able to enter dungeon from Activity Finder with a PUG where not everybody know each other from before or have all skills on bar that are expected, not have max CP yet or even have been in dungeon before so they have a basic understanding mechanics for that dungeon. Another problem that a lot of new player (and older vets) think that normal dungeon should just be blazed through so they newer take time to understand how things work.

In Scalecaller Peak there are lot of environmental tools like stand on grids that would explode poison (here even DPS can stand for as short sec just to stop this from happening). There yellow AoEs that can be used to create damage while fighting those two orgres where one need to keep them apart, but most players ignore those easy tricks which is meant to build up for veteran version of dungeon (and are being used also in other dungeons). Main problem isn't that you need a "perfect" tank, but group take time to figure out how do thing as a group and learn to read environment for tools like this either to prevent taking large damage or to increase/create damage during certain stages.

Too many in guilds I have been in are only focused on gaining XP for skills, gear and run Alkir dolmens or Skyreach farming even pay for this kind of runs, and never learn to use tactics that exist in dungeons. FG is perfect example of this where most people just yolo through and when things get messy start the blaming game.

//RexyCat

svendf · September 2019

CompM4s wrote: »

Normal dungeons - slot taunt

Don´t give bad advise. Dps cp 200+ equip inner firre me cp 810+ sorc result - I will have the boss in my face every 3-5 sec
because he/she cant hold aggro.

You have to be very skilled to play that way and 95% of fake tanks are not good enough.

Jayman1000 · September 2019

svendf wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Normal dungeons - slot taunt

Don´t give bad advise. Dps cp 200+ equip inner firre me cp 810+ sorc result - I will have the boss in my face every 3-5 sec
because he/she cant hold aggro.

You have to be very skilled to play that way and 95% of fake tanks are not good enough.

He said normal dungeon. You dont need to be very skilled to tank normal dungeons. You literally just need to slot taunt and have a minimum of survivability.

svendf · September 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Normal dungeons - slot taunt

Don´t give bad advise. Dps cp 200+ equip inner firre me cp 810+ sorc result - I will have the boss in my face every 3-5 sec
because he/she cant hold aggro.

You have to be very skilled to play that way and 95% of fake tanks are not good enough.

He said normal dungeon. You dont need to be very skilled to tank normal dungeons. You literally just need to slot taunt and have a minimum of suitability.

Do not give bad advise normal or DLC. When I say say it require skill it´s because I have seen the result many times. We need to be sure new player´s is given tthe best get go for the first few time.

I recon you que as tank yourself and as so support this style of playing

I never qd as tank or healer because i´m a dd. No time for queing ? that´s sad and understand the problem ( i´m also queing ).

In my world it´s simply rude to play that way and many agree, which i´m happy about.

VaranisArano · September 2019

svendf wrote: »

CompM4s wrote: »

Normal dungeons - slot taunt

Don´t give bad advise. Dps cp 200+ equip inner firre me cp 810+ sorc result - I will have the boss in my face every 3-5 sec
because he/she cant hold aggro.

You have to be very skilled to play that way and 95% of fake tanks are not good enough.

Inner Fire is a taunt that lasts for 15 seconds. There is no way you should be face tanking a boss taunted with Inner Fire ever 3 to 5 seconds unless:
A. Its an untauntable boss
B. You are also using a taunt
C. The tank is constantly dying and thus losing taunt
D. It's a boss mechanic, like how jumping bosses usually attack whoever is farthest away. If this is the case, the boss should attack you, then turn back to the tank.

Its not a problem with Inner Fire. Its a problem with either your tank or you.