Olupajmibanan wrote: »

What is a tank? Isn't that a guy in a group that is supposed to absorb as much damage as possible and protect allies this way?

So if I slot Inner Rage and actively use it and not die, am I a tank? No matter what my setup is, right?

you are in my book.

I have 2 requirements for a tank. don't die the moment a boss so much as frowns at you and keep the boss taunted/steady in roughly the same spot, so that dps could actualy use their ultimates and not waste them cause boss is running all over the place.
that's it.
if you can do that? you are a real tank in my book. everything else like debuffing or whatever - is a bonus. I don't care how you do it as long as you do it.

Instead of castigating people for being fake tanks, why not look at -why- they feel it's necessary.

As someone who is a main tank, I hear a lot of people saying how they want to learn to tank, but they don't want to tank in PUGs. They just want to tank for their guilds, where they have healers they trust to keep them up, and DPS who know what they're doing. And as someone who tanks PUGs, I've run the gamut and seen every possible permutation of "bad [X]". But honestly, I think the -biggest- thing causing people not to want to tank, or to start with the best of intentions and then give up, is anti-social behaviour on the part of the group they end up in - especially in DLC dungeons. Let me illustrate with a few examples.

As a tank who likes to have nice smooth runs where people don't die, I am happy to take the time to educate newer players by taking smaller pulls and explaining mechanics of boss fights, so they can go on to enjoy the dungeons without feeling like they have no clue what they're doing in the future (especially in boss fights - in vanilla dungeons I'll just wait for their quest). At the start of the dungeon, I always ask if there is anyone who hasn't been in the dungeon before. Often, in normal dungeons, people will happily put up their hands and say so if they haven't, and I'll pace the dungeon so that they don't feel rushed. By not making them feel rushed, they get into the swing of things and usually speed up anyway so it doesn't slow us down that much. If I'm lucky, I'll have two DPS who haven't been there and I can take my time with the explanations. If I'm very lucky, I'll have a DD who's experienced but doesn't mind going a little slower. If I'm unlucky, the DPS will just charge ahead and nuke the entire dungeon, because *** other people amirite? Sometimes, the -healer- will resent the slower pace, or the "babying" of new players and will either initiate a vote to kick (sometimes me, sometimes the lowbie DPS), or will leave the group. Or the healer is a fake healer and they just slot their regular destro staves and nuke the dungeon.

So, normal is generally ok, and if people don't manage to get their quest done because of one dickhead who's been antisocial, I'll run the same dungeon again with them, hoping for a roll of the dice on some more understanding people. I mean, if normal dungeons are meant to be training for vet, I think we should actually be taking the opportunity to help train people for vet. Call me crazy.

On vet, I do the same call at the start of the dungeon. Except that on vet, people are so afraid of getting kicked for "slowing down a run" that they will lie to me and say they've been there when they haven't. Now, I'm not going to kick people for not knowing mechanics, but apparently others do otherwise they wouldn't lie and pretend they do. I would much rather explain each fight so that they know what to do for the future, but I've had people leave group because I took the time to explain mechanics, or I've had the other DPS just go ahead and pull ahead of me because I was explaining something because they didn't want to wait the extra 30-40 seconds. I think they think they are going to make me panic into abandoning the newbie and "saving" them, because when I don't they usually ragequit. But personally, I would rather take the extra minute to explain the fight, than potentially have a 2 minute fight take ten minutes or more because the mechanics wiped us. People are usually extremely grateful for a) not being kicked and b) finally knowing what they need to do.

Back to the point though - people have been so conditioned now in vet queues to pretending they know they what they're doing, because any perceived "weakness" gets you summarily kicked, that vet dungeons are now stressful for everyone, not enjoyable as they should be. And - to bring it back to my very first point - when you have teams in vet dungeons who don't know what to do because they're always in groups that just stack and burn, that makes the tank's life infinitely more stressful because you are the one who gets blamed, and you -have- to pick up the slack when people die to mechanics. When it's not fun to tank something, you just don't do it. And that's how you end up in a situation where my tank DF group pops the instant I queue, and people join as fake tanks because otherwise they wait forty minutes for a dungeon.

I make it my job to know all the mechanics for every dungeon so I can help teach people. Everyone has to learn them at some point. They can't learn them on normal because everyone steamrolls it at 100 miles an hour and the mechanics are lol. They can't learn them on vet because they are ruthlessly kicked for "not having enough CP for HM" or "needing the quest" or "dying once" or anything else that slows down the group (even though I'm setting the pace). Fake tanks are not the problem. They are a symptom of the problem. Yes, I know we've all seen the content before and yes, we all just want to get it over with for the rewards, but instead of blaming the fake tanks maybe we should all be looking in the mirror.

If you have expectations, don't PUG.

You PvEers should start to reroll as tank because there is too many DD in this game, the lack of tank is a terrible issue that forces some guys to use "fake tank"

You dare talking about the problem but not its cause. Stop rerolling as Legolas, Harry Potter and Guts to reroll as Link.

Facefister wrote: »

As long as there are fake DDs, there will be fake tanks. Deal with it. I won't take a 45 minutes tour through my daily random when I can burn through it with slotted vigor and inner fire in 10 minutes

There are no “fake” DD’s, just bad ones. Unless they are listed as a DD and are healing and buffing the group, or heavy armor taunting debuffing the boss, they are just a bad DD, not a fake.

There is no need to cry. There is no need for Real Tank™ If "tank" player can taunt big hitters, keep enemies in my aoe dots and dont die. I dont care the rest. Actualy I am glad to him, I wait less in que thx to him.

Normal dungeons - slot taunt

Vicarra wrote: »

Instead of castigating people for being fake tanks, why not look at -why- they feel it's necessary.

As someone who is a main tank, I hear a lot of people saying how they want to learn to tank, but they don't want to tank in PUGs. They just want to tank for their guilds, where they have healers they trust to keep them up, and DPS who know what they're doing. And as someone who tanks PUGs, I've run the gamut and seen every possible permutation of "bad [X]". But honestly, I think the -biggest- thing causing people not to want to tank, or to start with the best of intentions and then give up, is anti-social behaviour on the part of the group they end up in - especially in DLC dungeons. Let me illustrate with a few examples.

As a tank who likes to have nice smooth runs where people don't die, I am happy to take the time to educate newer players by taking smaller pulls and explaining mechanics of boss fights, so they can go on to enjoy the dungeons without feeling like they have no clue what they're doing in the future (especially in boss fights - in vanilla dungeons I'll just wait for their quest). At the start of the dungeon, I always ask if there is anyone who hasn't been in the dungeon before. Often, in normal dungeons, people will happily put up their hands and say so if they haven't, and I'll pace the dungeon so that they don't feel rushed. By not making them feel rushed, they get into the swing of things and usually speed up anyway so it doesn't slow us down that much. If I'm lucky, I'll have two DPS who haven't been there and I can take my time with the explanations. If I'm very lucky, I'll have a DD who's experienced but doesn't mind going a little slower. If I'm unlucky, the DPS will just charge ahead and nuke the entire dungeon, because *** other people amirite? Sometimes, the -healer- will resent the slower pace, or the "babying" of new players and will either initiate a vote to kick (sometimes me, sometimes the lowbie DPS), or will leave the group. Or the healer is a fake healer and they just slot their regular destro staves and nuke the dungeon.

So, normal is generally ok, and if people don't manage to get their quest done because of one dickhead who's been antisocial, I'll run the same dungeon again with them, hoping for a roll of the dice on some more understanding people. I mean, if normal dungeons are meant to be training for vet, I think we should actually be taking the opportunity to help train people for vet. Call me crazy.

On vet, I do the same call at the start of the dungeon. Except that on vet, people are so afraid of getting kicked for "slowing down a run" that they will lie to me and say they've been there when they haven't. Now, I'm not going to kick people for not knowing mechanics, but apparently others do otherwise they wouldn't lie and pretend they do. I would much rather explain each fight so that they know what to do for the future, but I've had people leave group because I took the time to explain mechanics, or I've had the other DPS just go ahead and pull ahead of me because I was explaining something because they didn't want to wait the extra 30-40 seconds. I think they think they are going to make me panic into abandoning the newbie and "saving" them, because when I don't they usually ragequit. But personally, I would rather take the extra minute to explain the fight, than potentially have a 2 minute fight take ten minutes or more because the mechanics wiped us. People are usually extremely grateful for a) not being kicked and b) finally knowing what they need to do.

Back to the point though - people have been so conditioned now in vet queues to pretending they know they what they're doing, because any perceived "weakness" gets you summarily kicked, that vet dungeons are now stressful for everyone, not enjoyable as they should be. And - to bring it back to my very first point - when you have teams in vet dungeons who don't know what to do because they're always in groups that just stack and burn, that makes the tank's life infinitely more stressful because you are the one who gets blamed, and you -have- to pick up the slack when people die to mechanics. When it's not fun to tank something, you just don't do it. And that's how you end up in a situation where my tank DF group pops the instant I queue, and people join as fake tanks because otherwise they wait forty minutes for a dungeon.

I make it my job to know all the mechanics for every dungeon so I can help teach people. Everyone has to learn them at some point. They can't learn them on normal because everyone steamrolls it at 100 miles an hour and the mechanics are lol. They can't learn them on vet because they are ruthlessly kicked for "not having enough CP for HM" or "needing the quest" or "dying once" or anything else that slows down the group (even though I'm setting the pace). Fake tanks are not the problem. They are a symptom of the problem. Yes, I know we've all seen the content before and yes, we all just want to get it over with for the rewards, but instead of blaming the fake tanks maybe we should all be looking in the mirror.

THIS IS MY *#^(&%# ESO LIFE

Kiyakotari wrote: »

When DPS pull, then rush and off leave the tank fighting mobs. @&$# you. You're not being fast, you're being inconsiderate of the fact that your tank hits like a wet noodle and is stuck. Go die in a fire.

Why are you so agressive?

ZOS should add a check to see if the player has a taunt skill active, and if possible a shield or frost staff, heavy armor etc, before allowing to sign as tank. In World of Warcraft there was this Item Level required to queue. Could use similar mechanic.

Vote to kick, 100% of the time. Even when a tank is not strictly necessary, still kick. Every. Single. Time.