Chrlynsch wrote: »

FenrisWolf1136 wrote: »

__

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Dires along with all perminant pet summons in the game can not draw agro in instances meaning that they take no extra damage for the group.

I am pretty sure that on Live server Dire Wolfs draw agro and can tank dmg, that normally would go to you. Maybe that is the case of a players in dungeons doing more dmg than pets, so it is less visible, but try to go solo to some easier dungeons like Fungal Grotto or Blackheart Haven, or even Maelstrom Arena and you will see that those pets actually CAN hold agro. This is the whole point of Pack Leader morph. It works similar to sorc's pets. Without pets being able to "tank" dmg this morph is pretty much dead in solo play (and without dmg it is dead everywhere else too).

Notice how I state solo pve in the paragraph before hand?

Your pets stop working like that once around other groupmates. I could upload 2 hours of trial play with 8 pack leaders and 16 direwolf that never take a single hit or aggro off of a mob.

But since uploading video evidence is taboo, I will leave it in your court. Please show me a video of you in a dungeon or raid, with other players where the wolves draw aggro.

@jediodyn_ESO @FenrisWolf1136 @Tommy_The_Gun
Imma just leave this here then...

https://youtu.be/t2eFbmHW46A

Let me help breakdown how the direwolves work on live.

Showcased in my video (Live Server);

Overland solo play: Mobs will react to, interact with and actually get the taunted debuff from the dire wolves.

Group content (dungeon/raid): As of Murkmire, Zos changed how combat pets interacted with mobs, the combat pets don't get targeted or draw aggro from mobs or bosses. From the video you will see the NPCs have no concern for the direwolves even when being eaten alive by them.

@jediodyn_ESO @FenrisWolf1136 @Tommy_The_Gun

The experiences that you had with the direwolves taking damage, pulling mob aggro from yourself and groupmates in dungeons or raids, were indeed real but happened before, and not since the Murkmire patch.

Not sure why I'm tagged, but thanks for the video. I'm aware of where the dire wolves can and cannot hold aggro lol. In the statement i made above i was talking vMA specifically. So sorry for the long video, but its a full run that shares a multitude of times where the wolves hold an enemy and even kill it at times before i have the chance to deal with it myself. I will also reiterate that this has saved me before when I've been low on health and that the nerfs to pack leader will make this more challenging. Their damage will be missed for when they would track down and kill the venomcallers especially. Hate the poison round!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6UGDEOGSqc&feature=youtu.be

You were tagged because you said someone else was correct, when they were not.

Just trying to make sure we are all operating with correct information.

Ah. Should have been more specific then, my mistake. I was talking vma specifically. They can hold aggro there and i was agreeing that the morph was pretty much killed off in usefulness in its current pts state.

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

You were tagged because you said someone else was correct, when they were not.

Just trying to make sure we are all operating with correct information.

I was correct in that Packleader wolves do eat lots of damage in ALL PvP situations and some PvE situations. We've conceded your proven point that they haven't eaten PvE Raid damage (the do absorb damage in PvP raids) or dungeon content since Murkmire. Drop argument already. There's nothing left to argue about this point and its distracting from the larger, more important point.

What we need to be talking about is that Werewolf damage and sustainability are getting nerfed to a point where the playstyle is about to be invalid in any competitive content. (by competitive content, I mean any truly difficult content or any content where your group members won't groan or threaten to kick you if you don't change your build - both PvE and PvP)

The argument here is the Werewolf doesn't need to be "the best" option, but it should at least be a "valid" option. Furthermore, the changes to the Werewolf skill line should, and could, ideally make Werewolf gameplay challenging by linking skill synergies and creating more complex trade offs in those synergies (much the way roar > howl works now) instead of raw buffs/debuffs.

86K dps with a perfect set of gear on a stationary target, raid buffed, while using incredibly helpful addons that "roughly" 2/3 of the player population do not have access to, while changing from the morph that does have a massive amount of extra utility in all PvP and much PvE content does not accurately reflect the horrible effects of this patch.

Lets do some duels with your Werewolf builds against any of my stamina classes (i have them all) and I'll make a video of that for the forums. Also, if anyone else wants to get in on this last ditch opportunity to create video testing feedback, please let me know. Lets say, next Tuesday 9pm Eastern? Stormhaven?

That's sounds like fun! I am down for that, though I am tied up Tuesday and Wednesday night. Thursday work?

I won't know till Monday if I can make Thursday. Also, does this awful patch go live week after next, or two weeks from now? Not sure if a video posted on Friday will have any value if the patch is the next Mon/Tues.

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

I won't know till Monday if I can make Thursday. Also, does this awful patch go live week after next, or two weeks from now? Not sure if a video posted on Friday will have any value if the patch is the next Mon/Tues.

I think ZOS said somewhere (on stream I think) that Scalebreaker will go live on PC 12th of August. So We shall see indeed on Monday if there is any hope left for Werewolf. We should have 1 last round of PTS left. But, I would not count of any last minute WW changes.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

I hadn't played on a werewolf in years the other night I made an stem sorc turn it into a werewolf and my God is it night or day werewolves or should I say barelywolves because they barely do a thing are even relevant in the game anymore I mean make them like vampire and give us all the passes without having to slot any of it skills then we still get our region and there wouldn't be no problem here I guess you know nobody's ever like being a werewolf

I love being a Werewolf and use my ulti. What's wrong with that ?

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Ellyhan wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

I hadn't played on a werewolf in years the other night I made an stem sorc turn it into a werewolf and my God is it night or day werewolves or should I say barelywolves because they barely do a thing are even relevant in the game anymore I mean make them like vampire and give us all the passes without having to slot any of it skills then we still get our region and there wouldn't be no problem here I guess you know nobody's ever like being a werewolf

I love being a Werewolf and use my ulti. What's wrong with that ?

I personally don't find nothing wrong with it if you couldn't read what I said and see the sarcasm in it then maybe you just need to learn how to read more clearly as to what a person is saying

Yea nothing wrong with that. You're just forced in RP trash mode now.

Lets keep the thread on track or it will get locked down. Best thing to do is collect data, make the best case we can and hope the devs give it some consideration. Right now there are some posts giving ideas to how packleader could be adjusted to make it useful from the 5.1.0 nerf and some other ideas on how the toolkit could be adjusted to balance damage and up time. As it stands, damage has dropped (not a ton, but 4-5k again average.) And packleader morph is going to be pretty much useless if left alone. Should probably focus on that and move from there. Maybe get some mentions of certain bugs brought up that need addressed as well. Would like to be able to feed on bodies that are glowing but come up with no prompt...

RIP packleader, the never used morph

Bug experienced the other night in vSCP HM. For context, console (xbox) with a constructed group run through the group finder but switched roles after a few attempts for a boost in deeps:
Necro tank -> Necro tank
Mag Temp dd -> Sorc ww
Mag Temp dd
Temp healer

After the switch we noticed that while in ww form the lemonids geyser would consistently (over maybe 20 attempts) disappear the instant the last frost clone was slain. No one was stepping in it prematurely, it'd just disappear. Didn't seem to occur if I transformed following the spawn, and we eventually completed it by just not transforming until the last 20% so we didn't have to deal with an unnecessary res every cycle. I've completed it before on a ww dd and not had this issue, but likely not since Elswyr so if it is a consistent issue it is a recent one.

Also, a suggestion for the indirik boss of vMoS - the second werewolf-specific effect is entirely useless as (short of making the random hunter adds targetable in the phase) you cannot maintain the form through the hunt portions of the fight and when you transform back you get thrown in the air anyway. Might be useful to add the effect that your timer remains at full while the buff is active to this hunt reward, or make those hunters targettable such that ww timer can be maintained.

I believe the bug still exists that while you direwolves are active the hunt won't end until you play around with the direwolves targeting/positions as they become locked on the invisible boss and seemingly prevent him from returning. Not an issue on the normal veteran instance as the boss and the invul hunt form are the same model. For those struggling with the timer on this fight, make sure to turn veg and feed on stranglers.

As mentioned, you cannot feed on spider adds on the final boss even though the devour synergy prompt appears. Not sure if it applies to the dwarven spheres on the HM (usually end up tanking that ) and not too big an issue as I think you can still build timer with feral pounce. Would be nice if the skeever curse restored max ult to help with ww dd's being forced to drop ult in this fight (normally I save ww form for after the phase as the fight is not really a dps race.

Nerfed again. lol

perditioner wrote: »

They clearly don't want people to play werewolves

They nerfed WW and buffed the hell out if Bloodmoon set... they want all WW players to buy DLC and grind that set... lol

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

perditioner wrote: »

They clearly don't want people to play werewolves

They nerfed WW and buffed the hell out if Bloodmoon set... they want all WW players to buy DLC and grind that set... lol

I can't, for the life of me; understand these WW nerfs. Like no one is a WW anymore! Not in BGs, rarely seen in Cyrodiil, NEVER in a trial. idgi

Infectious Claws:
This ability and its morphs now immediately apply the Diseased status effect to enemies hit, and do Disease Damage rather than a hybrid of Physical and Disease Damage.

Doesn't the Diseased status effect apply major defile? If so, then won't this make the Claws of Anguish morph redundant?

Nevermind, it is hard to tell the icons apart on console, but it appears that the status effect is minor defile.

I've tested on pts, both light attack and the rotation earlier in the thread is giving me 31k, so around a 25% nerf to the kena, BM, rele build (using werewolf bone broth). I also tested new moon allow acolyte, lost dps using that set. @Chrlynsch, any ideas how we can further adapt for this patch?