So Magsoc got nerf or buff overall in 5.1.X？

Iskiab · August 2019

iCaliban wrote: »

Grollok76 wrote: »

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Do you see any not NB not Sorc mana class in PVP last year ? Some times may be Templar.

Oh my god they are so weak - they just one shot any one (30 r full resisted character for example) without chance with 5 skills you press one after another - curse - mana bomb crashing shot crushing shot - stone + unresistable stun - finisher.

And are impossible to catch - the fastest class in game.

And 2 shields that make them harder to kill than tank.

Oh me god - so weak sorcs - nerf again.

They will be nerfed - when i see any not Sorc and Not NB mana class in PVP.

49% sorcs / 49% NBs - and 2 % all other.

By the way - wings from DK was to owerpowered - than can be removed with crushing shot and light attack - to OVERPOWERED.

But NB with - FULL imunity to all + invisiability + 100% crit - it is just to weak - so we nerf tham a little - they start to wine ( near 50% play fo them in pvp) - and we give them skills even better for exchange to stop that wine - and they think "oh my we are so nerfed".

You will be nerfed when 2% of you will play mana in pvp - not when all PVP are Sorc and NB.

Cry more ***.

I'm not a fan of L2P posts usually, but in this case it seems warranted. So much nonsense...

Indeed. Mag templar has been better than both NB and sorc for quite some time.

Shush! All the bads chasing the fotm class will start magtemps. Sorcs are easier to kill.

f047ys3v3n · August 2019

PVE dps:
Massive nerf
-Both pets dps were destroyed and every sorc ran at least 1 with many doing both. I will run neither when I currently run volatile most times with twilight in vCR.
-Best major / minor, the major spell power from power surge is now redundant with a mages ability every single mag toon will run for a DOT.
-Sorcs do not have a single target class DOT that is getting buffed so they have a 0 in that category
-Sorcs good class proc, frags, will be hard to justify on a bar filled with the new DOT's as it sort of takes 2 slots since you spend a lot of casts on both bars in a 12 second rotation. The new meta has weaker abilities than the current but more of them so bar space is crunched.
-Can no longer use short duration lightning morph with better AOE because the new DOT durations set everybody on 12 second rotations.
-I expect overall AOE damage reduction of around 65% (other lightning morph + 37% nerf, blockade nerf, volatile off bar) this was sorcs strength and it will be terrible. It really will do significantly less than half the AOE dps damage. Think about that, all those cleave stats that virtually every trial strat has. Toss them all out, none will work.

PVP:
Well if you ran pets it's a nerf as you lost a significant part of your kit. However, that new streak is very strong, strong enough to be class defining with the unblockable stun and cheaper multi-cast. Don't get used to it though dollars to donuts it's a one patch change and after that rather than reverse the change they will wreck the entire ability in a way you won't be able to use it at all.

Betty_Booms · August 2019

The streak stun is the only redeeming factor in pvp.

Would be good paired with a negate for group ulti drips but since stamina is far stronger then mag i doubt it will be used.

It will also require sorcs to play a riskier style having to be in range of gap closers.

Those vigor ticks will keep someone up. Templars will be a must in the dot meta.

Without that extra damage from reach/clench its almost impossible for a sorc to land the burst combo against someone half decent.

And again the increase in self healing will create more of a reliance on consistant pressure which brings us to the sorcs major weakness.. sustain...

If you think thay are in a good spot then you are not playing against strong opponents.

pattyLtd · August 2019

I feel so sad when read this.
Been playing since release on PS4 and have done the try other classes thing over and over.

I only really enjoy my main which is a magsorc and i dont wamt to change my playstyle.
I really dislike these idiots that keep ruining my fun for no reason.

If next update as bad as it sounds i might just give up.
It’s not fun when can finally beat vma and vet dlc dungeons after so long and then suddenly cant anymoreall because some nerds cant handle being beaten in a videogame.

Balance is impossible for these people they will just complain about the next skill that kills them on theor death recap.
Worst is these fools at zos actually listen to them.

Morrowind 2.0: Stop try to balance things and for god sake try get the original devs bacl, you cearly are clueless beyond belief

Murador178 · August 2019

pattyLtd wrote: »

I feel so sad when read this.
Been playing since release on PS4 and have done the try other classes thing over and over.

I only really enjoy my main which is a magsorc and i dont wamt to change my playstyle.
I really dislike these idiots that keep ruining my fun for no reason.

If next update as bad as it sounds i might just give up.
It’s not fun when can finally beat vma and vet dlc dungeons after so long and then suddenly cant anymoreall because some nerds cant handle being beaten in a videogame.

Balance is impossible for these people they will just complain about the next skill that kills them on theor death recap.
Worst is these fools at zos actually listen to them.

Morrowind 2.0: Stop try to balance things and for god sake try get the original devs bacl, you cearly are clueless beyond belief

Balancing stuff and changing stuff is needed to change the meta and keep people playing. Its not about achieving a better balance (ofc they try it) its about making people adapt and spend alot of time ingame. If they wouldnt do that the game would be empty since ages. vMA can be cleared without setting CPs and wont be affected a lot by these changes

@OwnerOfSuccuby that video is the clear proof how strong sorc is

- atleast it gave me a fair laugh we rly need a funny function on the forums.

The next patch will be alot about dots - stam nb openworld builds lack the dmg to pressure good builds next patch anyways. If u are talking about slaying the biggest potatoe group openworld sorc will be able to do that aswell @Derra and for sure better as mag nb. So i dont see a reason why stamina tanks wouldnt prevail with maybe magplar mag dks for the next patch.

FrancisCrawford · August 2019

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE M.Sorc destroyed on the PTS server.
L. Flood (and morph) destroyed. Very low damage for a ground dot
Twinlight destroyed. Too little damage for an ability occupying 2 slots.

Like some other ground-based AoE DoTs:

Lightning Flood was badly nerfed.
It still looks sort of OK for single-target nerf fights because of other factors (in this case the synergy).

But the brutal nerf to the Matriarch destroyed a whole playstyle (pet sorcerer DD).

Maulkin · August 2019

I've been playing destro/resto, no pet, force pulse on BGs in anticipation of the new patch. God it's awful compared to destro/S&B, matriarch, masterreach. It's like a Fiat Panda compared to a Porsche 911. You can do some kiting and kill-stealing but 1v1 against anyone competent you're mince meat. If that's the best build for next patch, it'll be a hard one to swallow.

My biggest issue though is how often, even in BGs, Streak bugs out and roots/silences you instead of working when it tries to prevent you from stunning players above or below. I haven't got PTS access due to disk space. Anyone know if they at least fixed that bug? Given how heavily magsorc will be relying on Streak for the stun? *cough* @Derra *cough*

Derra · August 2019

Haven’t tested since 5.1.3 bc I’m on holiday. I didn’t get streak but when I tested briefly in 5.1.0 - but I’d ask @MalcolM24 to be sure.

@Murador178 sorc will probs be able to kill potato’s still. Don’t see them that far ahead of magblade anymore even for open world with shade fixed and potentially a million dots stacked on you. Magblade deals with that way better than sorc.

Cerotonin · August 2019

I’ll always appreciate anyone that comes off as powerful when using MagBlade. PetSorcerers spam-casting shields while jumping around their pets is such easy gameplay. Dropping an atro if you get too close, streaking through you instantly as you cloak. It’s just so easy.

LiquidPony · August 2019

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

PVE dps:
Massive nerf
-Both pets dps were destroyed and every sorc ran at least 1 with many doing both. I will run neither when I currently run volatile most times with twilight in vCR.
-Best major / minor, the major spell power from power surge is now redundant with a mages ability every single mag toon will run for a DOT.
-Sorcs do not have a single target class DOT that is getting buffed so they have a 0 in that category
-Sorcs good class proc, frags, will be hard to justify on a bar filled with the new DOT's as it sort of takes 2 slots since you spend a lot of casts on both bars in a 12 second rotation. The new meta has weaker abilities than the current but more of them so bar space is crunched.
-Can no longer use short duration lightning morph with better AOE because the new DOT durations set everybody on 12 second rotations.
-I expect overall AOE damage reduction of around 65% (other lightning morph + 37% nerf, blockade nerf, volatile off bar) this was sorcs strength and it will be terrible. It really will do significantly less than half the AOE dps damage. Think about that, all those cleave stats that virtually every trial strat has. Toss them all out, none will work.

lol where do you come up with this stuff?

Sorc parses are higher on PTS right now than they've ever been.

The pets both still do fine DPS. On a raid dummy parse you'll get ~9k out of the scamp and ~6k out of the Twilight.

Frags are easily the #2 DPS ability in most parses. The idea that you'd drop it is, frankly, ridiculous. And this "logic" about it "sort of" taking 2 slots makes zero sense. Also, the rotation is no longer 12 seconds if you're using Unstable Wall.

You can absolutely use Lightning Flood. It does about ~6k DPS as well in raid dummy parses. And again, the rotation isn't 12 seconds.

If you want cleave, you slot Lightning Flood instead of Flame Reach. You've got: Volcanic Rune, Volatile Familiar, Unstable Wall, Lightning Flood, and the option to run Mystic Orb (which also does ~6k DPS on a magsorc parse).

As far as PvE is concerned, DPS is fine across the board. Almost every spec, magsorcs included, is hitting harder on PTS right now than they ever have before. Builds might be a little bit different, and things might be a bit too homogeneous, but people are stuck on some "omg everything got nerfed" narrative that is absolutely not true.

Saril_Durzam · August 2019

Tormentor gets close to 5k.Not worth the slot. Scamp is around 7 - 8k. And that is using Daedric Prey which is around 3k. So five slots to do 15k... Sucks very much. Slotting Inner Light gives around 6k with just 1 slot and its free DPS. Why should we slot Tormentor then?

LiquidPony · August 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Tormentor gets close to 5k.Not worth the slot. Scamp is around 7 - 8k. And that is using Daedric Prey which is around 3k. So five slots to do 15k... Sucks very much. Slotting Inner Light gives around 6k with just 1 slot and its free DPS. Why should we slot Tormentor then?

On a good parse the scamp is more like 9-10k, Daedric Prey is 5k, and the Tormentor is 6k. And of course Daedric Prey buffs your Greater Storm Atronach and also Spiders in real content. So more like ~22k on a solo parse and possibly higher in group content depending on Shadow Silk uptime.

And Inner Light is certainly not a 6k DPS increase. It's probably a 3-4% DPS gain, which would be a ~3k DPS increase on a 90k parse. Regardless, why would you run Inner Light when you get more max magicka out of Bound Aegis *and* +2% spell damage for slotting it?

MehrunesFlagon · August 2019

What is a magsoc?

josh.lackey_ESO · August 2019

The changes to Streak were to buff stam sorc. Mag sorc is dead.

Vahrokh · August 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

PVE dps:
Massive nerf
-Both pets dps were destroyed and every sorc ran at least 1 with many doing both. I will run neither when I currently run volatile most times with twilight in vCR.
-Best major / minor, the major spell power from power surge is now redundant with a mages ability every single mag toon will run for a DOT.
-Sorcs do not have a single target class DOT that is getting buffed so they have a 0 in that category
-Sorcs good class proc, frags, will be hard to justify on a bar filled with the new DOT's as it sort of takes 2 slots since you spend a lot of casts on both bars in a 12 second rotation. The new meta has weaker abilities than the current but more of them so bar space is crunched.
-Can no longer use short duration lightning morph with better AOE because the new DOT durations set everybody on 12 second rotations.
-I expect overall AOE damage reduction of around 65% (other lightning morph + 37% nerf, blockade nerf, volatile off bar) this was sorcs strength and it will be terrible. It really will do significantly less than half the AOE dps damage. Think about that, all those cleave stats that virtually every trial strat has. Toss them all out, none will work.

lol where do you come up with this stuff?

Sorc parses are higher on PTS right now than they've ever been.

The pets both still do fine DPS. On a raid dummy parse you'll get ~9k out of the scamp and ~6k out of the Twilight.

Frags are easily the #2 DPS ability in most parses. The idea that you'd drop it is, frankly, ridiculous. And this "logic" about it "sort of" taking 2 slots makes zero sense. Also, the rotation is no longer 12 seconds if you're using Unstable Wall.

You can absolutely use Lightning Flood. It does about ~6k DPS as well in raid dummy parses. And again, the rotation isn't 12 seconds.

If you want cleave, you slot Lightning Flood instead of Flame Reach. You've got: Volcanic Rune, Volatile Familiar, Unstable Wall, Lightning Flood, and the option to run Mystic Orb (which also does ~6k DPS on a magsorc parse).

As far as PvE is concerned, DPS is fine across the board. Almost every spec, magsorcs included, is hitting harder on PTS right now than they ever have before. Builds might be a little bit different, and things might be a bit too homogeneous, but people are stuck on some "omg everything got nerfed" narrative that is absolutely not true.

Yeah after 5 years of playing the AoE class with 2 pets, you suddenly get turned into a NB clone with NB-alike single target capabilities.

SO GREAT, FIVE YEARS TO TAKE US TO THESE AWESOME AND UNIQUE IMPROVEMENTS!

Saril_Durzam · August 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Tormentor gets close to 5k.Not worth the slot. Scamp is around 7 - 8k. And that is using Daedric Prey which is around 3k. So five slots to do 15k... Sucks very much. Slotting Inner Light gives around 6k with just 1 slot and its free DPS. Why should we slot Tormentor then?

On a good parse the scamp is more like 9-10k, Daedric Prey is 5k, and the Tormentor is 6k. And of course Daedric Prey buffs your Greater Storm Atronach and also Spiders in real content. So more like ~22k on a solo parse and possibly higher in group content depending on Shadow Silk uptime.

And Inner Light is certainly not a 6k DPS increase. It's probably a 3-4% DPS gain, which would be a ~3k DPS increase on a 90k parse. Regardless, why would you run Inner Light when you get more max magicka out of Bound Aegis *and* +2% spell damage for slotting it?

Man... you´re not telling truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6mho25B63I

Liko´s parse (doubt we wont do it better than Liko, we all can agree on that) shows Daedric at 4k. Volatile is 5k plus 2k. Tormentor doesnt appear because obviously Liko figured out it sucks for DPS and it will be much less than that. On Live it´s already 6k and the damage has been nerfed, so i expect less than that, around 5k.

Inner light gives 10% crit percentage and 7% magicka increase and 2% magicka regen, that´s around 5-6k DPS increase. Not counting that you use potions, ofc. I didnt add Bound Aegis, it´s "just" 8% magicka increase and minor ward/resolve. Only marginally better if not using pots. Not sure where do you get that 2% extra dmg. What class are you playing?

If the (arguably) BEST parser do these numbers, a GOOD parse will do the numbers i wrote.

Spreading misinformation for getting your point done is a bit meh, dont you think?

Rake · August 2019

petsorc also known as brainless style is nerfed.

Saril_Durzam · August 2019

Rake wrote: »

petsorc also known as brainless style is nerfed.

Yeah, nerfed. And nonpet isnt going anywhere too. Happy?

Rake · August 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

petsorc also known as brainless style is nerfed.

Yeah, nerfed. And nonpet isnt going anywhere too. Happy?

yes

Knightpanther · August 2019

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Grollok76 wrote: »

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Do you see any not NB not Sorc mana class in PVP last year ? Some times may be Templar.

Oh my god they are so weak - they just one shot any one (30 r full resisted character for example) without chance with 5 skills you press one after another - curse - mana bomb crashing shot crushing shot - stone + unresistable stun - finisher.

And are impossible to catch - the fastest class in game.

And 2 shields that make them harder to kill than tank.

Oh me god - so weak sorcs - nerf again.

They will be nerfed - when i see any not Sorc and Not NB mana class in PVP.

49% sorcs / 49% NBs - and 2 % all other.

By the way - wings from DK was to owerpowered - than can be removed with crushing shot and light attack - to OVERPOWERED.

But NB with - FULL imunity to all + invisiability + 100% crit - it is just to weak - so we nerf tham a little - they start to wine ( near 50% play fo them in pvp) - and we give them skills even better for exchange to stop that wine - and they think "oh my we are so nerfed".

You will be nerfed when 2% of you will play mana in pvp - not when all PVP are Sorc and NB.

Cry more ***.

I'm not a fan of L2P posts usually, but in this case it seems warranted. So much nonsense...

Oh really ?

Just already test it in PTS - i DO NOT PLAY MONKEY SORC - 10 minutes on PTS - on this sorc - only 1 set and monster set ON.

I even can not find food on PTS - but even without set i need to shot and half of values just look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1KGdAZow5E

Just you try that on a mudcrab!
His extra armour is gonna give you problems.

Seriously you've cheered me up, so nervous this morning getting ready for the Cricket (can we get Smith out before another ton?). Please let me know what your smoking, we need it legalised fast!

Be safe

OwnerOfSuccuby · August 2019

Knightpanther wrote: »

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Grollok76 wrote: »

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Do you see any not NB not Sorc mana class in PVP last year ? Some times may be Templar.

Oh my god they are so weak - they just one shot any one (30 r full resisted character for example) without chance with 5 skills you press one after another - curse - mana bomb crashing shot crushing shot - stone + unresistable stun - finisher.

And are impossible to catch - the fastest class in game.

And 2 shields that make them harder to kill than tank.

Oh me god - so weak sorcs - nerf again.

They will be nerfed - when i see any not Sorc and Not NB mana class in PVP.

49% sorcs / 49% NBs - and 2 % all other.

By the way - wings from DK was to owerpowered - than can be removed with crushing shot and light attack - to OVERPOWERED.

But NB with - FULL imunity to all + invisiability + 100% crit - it is just to weak - so we nerf tham a little - they start to wine ( near 50% play fo them in pvp) - and we give them skills even better for exchange to stop that wine - and they think "oh my we are so nerfed".

You will be nerfed when 2% of you will play mana in pvp - not when all PVP are Sorc and NB.

Cry more ***.

I'm not a fan of L2P posts usually, but in this case it seems warranted. So much nonsense...

Oh really ?

Just already test it in PTS - i DO NOT PLAY MONKEY SORC - 10 minutes on PTS - on this sorc - only 1 set and monster set ON.

I even can not find food on PTS - but even without set i need to shot and half of values just look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1KGdAZow5E

Just you try that on a mudcrab!
His extra armour is gonna give you problems.

Seriously you've cheered me up, so nervous this morning getting ready for the Cricket (can we get Smith out before another ton?). Please let me know what your smoking, we need it legalised fast!

Be safe

I can try it on you - if my class will be unplayable - i will do sorc and believe me - you will not exit peace zon - ever.

So make fun about crabs while you can

pieratsos · August 2019

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Knightpanther wrote: »

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Grollok76 wrote: »

OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »

Do you see any not NB not Sorc mana class in PVP last year ? Some times may be Templar.

Oh my god they are so weak - they just one shot any one (30 r full resisted character for example) without chance with 5 skills you press one after another - curse - mana bomb crashing shot crushing shot - stone + unresistable stun - finisher.

And are impossible to catch - the fastest class in game.

And 2 shields that make them harder to kill than tank.

Oh me god - so weak sorcs - nerf again.

They will be nerfed - when i see any not Sorc and Not NB mana class in PVP.

49% sorcs / 49% NBs - and 2 % all other.

By the way - wings from DK was to owerpowered - than can be removed with crushing shot and light attack - to OVERPOWERED.

But NB with - FULL imunity to all + invisiability + 100% crit - it is just to weak - so we nerf tham a little - they start to wine ( near 50% play fo them in pvp) - and we give them skills even better for exchange to stop that wine - and they think "oh my we are so nerfed".

You will be nerfed when 2% of you will play mana in pvp - not when all PVP are Sorc and NB.

Cry more ***.

I'm not a fan of L2P posts usually, but in this case it seems warranted. So much nonsense...

Oh really ?

Just already test it in PTS - i DO NOT PLAY MONKEY SORC - 10 minutes on PTS - on this sorc - only 1 set and monster set ON.

I even can not find food on PTS - but even without set i need to shot and half of values just look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1KGdAZow5E

Just you try that on a mudcrab!
His extra armour is gonna give you problems.

Seriously you've cheered me up, so nervous this morning getting ready for the Cricket (can we get Smith out before another ton?). Please let me know what your smoking, we need it legalised fast!

Be safe

I can try it on you - if my class will be unplayable - i will do sorc and believe me - you will not exit peace zon - ever.

So make fun about crabs while you can

Well feel free to go on PTS and try your super combo while naked on actual people fighting back. We all want to have a good laugh. lol.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE
It’s stupid to argue about which mana class is worse.
Mana classes are no longer needed. Thanks for the wonderful balance!
Ground Dots - nerfed
Sheilds - nerfed
Matriarch - nefed

Why invite mana dd to the raid if you can invite 8 stam dd?

True. I don't understand why we have 20 threads about nerfed sorcs and only 1-2 threads for current position of other magclasses (magDK, magden, magblade - all are nerfed in U23, despite they were already severely nerfed in U22). 50% of game population are magsorc mains? Well, then re-balances are long overdue. If 50% run same spec, then it is quite obvious that spec provides best result/effort ratio.

Bird is gone for good. Yesterday we had 4 petsorcs in trial, it came to situation where other dds don't want to stay in group with sorcs cause you won't see anything from 2-3-4 flappers. Separate sub group for matriarch users lol.

Magicka requires resource-wide buffs, not sorc-specific buffs.

Derra · August 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE
It’s stupid to argue about which mana class is worse.
Mana classes are no longer needed. Thanks for the wonderful balance!
Ground Dots - nerfed
Sheilds - nerfed
Matriarch - nefed

Why invite mana dd to the raid if you can invite 8 stam dd?

True. I don't understand why we have 20 threads about nerfed sorcs and only 1-2 threads for current position of other magclasses (magDK, magden, magblade - all are nerfed in U23, despite they were already severely nerfed in U22). 50% of game population are magsorc mains? Well, then re-balances are long overdue. If 50% run same spec, then it is quite obvious that spec provides best result/effort ratio.

Bird is gone for good. Yesterday we had 4 petsorcs in trial, it came to situation where other dds don't want to stay in group with sorcs cause you won't see anything from 2-3-4 flappers. Separate sub group for matriarch users lol.

Magicka requires resource-wide buffs, not sorc-specific buffs.

Magsorc is the only class that got hit in pvp and pve both. The other mag classes benefit from parts of the patch in atleast in pvp.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

Derra wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE
It’s stupid to argue about which mana class is worse.
Mana classes are no longer needed. Thanks for the wonderful balance!
Ground Dots - nerfed
Sheilds - nerfed
Matriarch - nefed

Why invite mana dd to the raid if you can invite 8 stam dd?

True. I don't understand why we have 20 threads about nerfed sorcs and only 1-2 threads for current position of other magclasses (magDK, magden, magblade - all are nerfed in U23, despite they were already severely nerfed in U22). 50% of game population are magsorc mains? Well, then re-balances are long overdue. If 50% run same spec, then it is quite obvious that spec provides best result/effort ratio.

Bird is gone for good. Yesterday we had 4 petsorcs in trial, it came to situation where other dds don't want to stay in group with sorcs cause you won't see anything from 2-3-4 flappers. Separate sub group for matriarch users lol.

Magicka requires resource-wide buffs, not sorc-specific buffs.

Magsorc is the only class that got hit in pvp and pve both. The other mag classes benefit from parts of the patch in atleast in pvp.

But other classes were nerfed in previous patch (U22), while sorcs almost avoided that. Don't tell me that removal of wings and permasnares in U22 didn't make magsorcs life easier. As well as nerfs to stamblade gankers in PVP and magblade in PVE which cleared way for sorc to literally run amok.

Still, I am not advocating nerf of magsorc as a whole, I just agree with ZOS on nerf of matriarch and think that ZOS must give some notable buff to magicka damage output, all classes wide. This is really easy to implement, for example in magic guild passives...

Iskiab · August 2019

Hard to say. Certain abilities being nerfed doesn’t matter since you can only slot so many. It’s far more important to have good abilities and passives, I think they’ll be okay.

Streak was buffed, execute’s intact, that’s a good foundation.

LiquidPony · August 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Tormentor gets close to 5k.Not worth the slot. Scamp is around 7 - 8k. And that is using Daedric Prey which is around 3k. So five slots to do 15k... Sucks very much. Slotting Inner Light gives around 6k with just 1 slot and its free DPS. Why should we slot Tormentor then?

On a good parse the scamp is more like 9-10k, Daedric Prey is 5k, and the Tormentor is 6k. And of course Daedric Prey buffs your Greater Storm Atronach and also Spiders in real content. So more like ~22k on a solo parse and possibly higher in group content depending on Shadow Silk uptime.

And Inner Light is certainly not a 6k DPS increase. It's probably a 3-4% DPS gain, which would be a ~3k DPS increase on a 90k parse. Regardless, why would you run Inner Light when you get more max magicka out of Bound Aegis *and* +2% spell damage for slotting it?

Man... you´re not telling truth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6mho25B63I

Liko´s parse (doubt we wont do it better than Liko, we all can agree on that) shows Daedric at 4k. Volatile is 5k plus 2k. Tormentor doesnt appear because obviously Liko figured out it sucks for DPS and it will be much less than that. On Live it´s already 6k and the damage has been nerfed, so i expect less than that, around 5k.

Inner light gives 10% crit percentage and 7% magicka increase and 2% magicka regen, that´s around 5-6k DPS increase. Not counting that you use potions, ofc. I didnt add Bound Aegis, it´s "just" 8% magicka increase and minor ward/resolve. Only marginally better if not using pots. Not sure where do you get that 2% extra dmg. What class are you playing?

If the (arguably) BEST parser do these numbers, a GOOD parse will do the numbers i wrote.

Spreading misinformation for getting your point done is a bit meh, dont you think?

@Saril_Durzam

I don't even know where to begin.

First, that's not Liko. That's Alcast.

If Liko is going to be our canonical example to benchmark the DPS all of these skills, let's use an actual parse from Liko:

Hey, look at that.

Scamp: 9,808
Daedric Prey: 5,340

Beyond that, it's absolutely pants-on-head stupid to attempt to factor in Major Prophecy from Inner Light when we're talking about PvE raid dummy parses. Everyone is using spell power potions. The passive Major Prophecy is not a factor.

And as far as Bound Aegis goes, maybe you should actually read the Sorcerer passives. Expert Mage is the one you're looking for. What class are you playing?

Emma_Overload · August 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE
It’s stupid to argue about which mana class is worse.
Mana classes are no longer needed. Thanks for the wonderful balance!
Ground Dots - nerfed
Sheilds - nerfed
Matriarch - nefed

Why invite mana dd to the raid if you can invite 8 stam dd?

True. I don't understand why we have 20 threads about nerfed sorcs and only 1-2 threads for current position of other magclasses (magDK, magden, magblade - all are nerfed in U23, despite they were already severely nerfed in U22). 50% of game population are magsorc mains? Well, then re-balances are long overdue. If 50% run same spec, then it is quite obvious that spec provides best result/effort ratio.

Bird is gone for good. Yesterday we had 4 petsorcs in trial, it came to situation where other dds don't want to stay in group with sorcs cause you won't see anything from 2-3-4 flappers. Separate sub group for matriarch users lol.

Magicka requires resource-wide buffs, not sorc-specific buffs.

No, but Mag Sorcs are almost certainly the highest population of Magicka specs remaining. Everybody else gave up and rolled stamina, I guess. Stam Sorc is bland and boring, so I think Mag Sorcs will resist until the bitter end.

MartiniDaniels · August 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE
It’s stupid to argue about which mana class is worse.
Mana classes are no longer needed. Thanks for the wonderful balance!
Ground Dots - nerfed
Sheilds - nerfed
Matriarch - nefed

Why invite mana dd to the raid if you can invite 8 stam dd?

True. I don't understand why we have 20 threads about nerfed sorcs and only 1-2 threads for current position of other magclasses (magDK, magden, magblade - all are nerfed in U23, despite they were already severely nerfed in U22). 50% of game population are magsorc mains? Well, then re-balances are long overdue. If 50% run same spec, then it is quite obvious that spec provides best result/effort ratio.

Bird is gone for good. Yesterday we had 4 petsorcs in trial, it came to situation where other dds don't want to stay in group with sorcs cause you won't see anything from 2-3-4 flappers. Separate sub group for matriarch users lol.

Magicka requires resource-wide buffs, not sorc-specific buffs.

No, but Mag Sorcs are almost certainly the highest population of Magicka specs remaining. Everybody else gave up and rolled stamina, I guess. Stam Sorc is bland and boring, so I think Mag Sorcs will resist until the bitter end.

Sorcs were very vocal about magblade and magDK nerfs and and now I see wave of nerf requests is rising against magplars. Maybe it's time to stop all the "nerf other class" things on forums and start voting for actual balance instead of trying to promote own favorite spec?

Sorcs majority whined, all other classes were nerfed and in U22 sorc became obvious king of the magicka hill, so ZOS now nerfs them too and magicka fall behind stamina as a whole, both PVP and PVE. I really doubt it was stamblades who were voting for nerfs of magblades and magDKs.

RiskyChalice863 · August 2019

Derra wrote: »

Tolino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

[
Have you actually tested what you’re saying regarding survivability with healing ward and rr? Because i have and my experience is 100% the opposite.

Also burst is worth less on pts due to how high healing generally is.
Sorc tries to pressure an opponent into mid health then burst them from there. On pts this is way harder than it is on live due to the increased healing.
.

These statements contradict each other.
Wiht the new surg (proc also from critheal) Sorc have a "good" answer against Dots. (Dots and heal are overperforming)

No they don’t. Because sorc does not have synergy with healing compared to other classes nor do they have the barspace to slot rr ward surge and dots alongside their normal mandatory skills.
Generally means in this case on most classes - light armor sorc is an exclusion to that on pts compared to the healing capabilities of any other mag class (magblade being 2nd to last but cloak being massively better at dealing with dots).

Which basically settles my case of - you’re someone talking only theory without practical experience on the pts.

Not even going into the debate of surge in nocp where crit is very limited and as a result the effects of surge aswell.

I don’t have a strong view in this issue in general, but some of this post strikes me as a bit odd. You’re basically saying Magsorcs are in bad shape because, while they have access to newly buffed abilities other magicka classes will use, they have other “mandatory” skills they’ll use instead. All that means is that magsorcs have better class abilities than other mag classes, because apparently those other classes don’t have “mandatory” abilities they’ll run instead.

I guess the point can make sense if it’s just that Magsorcs will be relatively worse off than before because they won’t use some newly buffed abilities. But if they aren’t using newly buffed abilities and other classes are, then they’re still probably more powerful than the other mag classes.