So Magsoc got nerf or buff overall in 5.1.X？

chongguang

i read the 5.1 patch notes and think magic sorcerer got nerfs more than buffs, especially nerf hammer hit to twilight Bird. However after several weeks i was told that sorc got buff overall so far. So anyone can help me understand whether there are buff or nerf to magsorc?
My magblade is completely dead in next patch.So really need helps to decide what next main class shall I move on .
Thanks a lot.

Derra

Anyone telling you that sorc got buffed or that sorc is ahead of magblade in patch 5.1.x hasn’t played both classes.

chongguang

Derra wrote: »

Anyone telling you that sorc got buffed or that sorc is ahead of magblade in patch 5.1.x hasn’t played both classes.

Then please what's your viewpoint ？

Tolino

PvE or PvP?

In PvP Petsorc => Nerf
Non Petsorc => massiv buff

( The most buff are indirectly z. B. Rapide Regen and steadfest Ward)

Offensiv are better next patch with streak

miteba

Derra wrote: »

Anyone telling you that sorc got buffed or that sorc is ahead of magblade in patch 5.1.x hasn’t played both classes.

If Sorc is not ahead of magblade xD god save them...
That had to be the hugest MagSorc nerf because magblades have been drained since forever and their best buff lately was fixing a already nerfed skill (shadow image)

Obviously that magblades can use this new dot revamp in their favor but that can be applied to all classes.

Now Sorcs, usually so shield dependents, saw the shields being nerfed, mainly the best class shield in the game (hardened ward).
But Streak was buffed when no one expected or asked for it...
Pets were heavily nerfed, or balanced, as you prefer.

Dont remember much more although i have 3 sorcs (stam, mag & pet) since their not my main and this patch is somewhat depressive (anti-homogenization here) i didnt took to much attention to their changes yet.

Derra

chongguang wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anyone telling you that sorc got buffed or that sorc is ahead of magblade in patch 5.1.x hasn’t played both classes.

Then please what's your viewpoint ？

Sorc got nerfed - in every way you put it.
Twilight, harness, reach deserved those nerfs.
Hardened and empowered did not.
The buff to streak doesn’t make up for this in the slightest esp as sorc has to fight within 15m now.
Sorc has no synergy towards dots and hots which received massive buffs on pts.

Magblade compared to that has a little.

Both classes aren’t great compared to magdk or Templar.

All magica pales compared to stam.

Purely pvp perspective though. In pve it was arguably slightly buffed for no pet sorc - but at the cost of the classes identity.
Mag pales compared to stam here aswell though.

Tommy_The_Gun

Derra wrote: »

Anyone telling you that sorc got buffed or that sorc is ahead of magblade in patch 5.1.x hasn’t played both classes.

May I know how, or in what content Mag NB is ahead of sorc ? (stam or mag).
I just want to know your point of view, as you are the first person I see, to imply such thing...

Derra

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Anyone telling you that sorc got buffed or that sorc is ahead of magblade in patch 5.1.x hasn’t played both classes.

May I know how, or in what content Mag NB is ahead of sorc ? (stam or mag).
I just want to know your point of view, as you are the first person I see, to imply such thing...

On pts? Open world pvp most likely- though testing is limited on pts.
Both classes don’t feel great actually fighting but nb has the better toolkit to deal with dots and synergises better with buffed hots.
Both aren’t great and I wouldn’t advise to play either.

It was more of a comment that both classes are meh not meant to imply one is strictly better.

Saril_Durzam

Pve wise, DPS will stay more or less the same (improved abit on ST, worse AOE). It will be still behind all stam classes, magcro and magplar. Tied or slightly above with magDK and better than magblade and magden, i´d say. Selfhealing will be horrible, sustain as horrible as always, and bad survability.

So all those things which made magsorcs hard targets despite being light armor, are gone. It will be a glass canon.

Overall, i call it a heavy nerf.

Pvp wise? Still need to check the impact of heavy armor nerfs but id say a bit worse than before.

Tolino

Derra wrote: »

Sorc got nerfed - in every way you put it.
Twilight, harness, reach deserved those nerfs.
Hardened and empowered did not.
The buff to streak doesn’t make up for this in the slightest esp as sorc has to fight within 15m now.
Sorc has no synergy towards dots and hots which received massive buffs on pts.

Magblade compared to that has a little.

Both classes aren’t great compared to magdk or Templar.

All magica pales compared to stam.

Purely pvp perspective though. In pve it was arguably slightly buffed for no pet sorc - but at the cost of the classes identity.
Mag pales compared to stam here aswell though.

Don't look only at your nerfs!
Magsorc has one of the best burst-combos(with force pulse).

And survivability will be a lot better next patch (rapide regen and healing ward)

Magsorc can also have good dot pressure with entropy!

Lg

Ps. Sorry for my bad english

Saril_Durzam

Pvp wise, Sorcs will be forced to use Resto staff, that´s for sure. Too bad Pve wise a Sorc cant afford to do so...

Tolino

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Pvp wise, Sorcs will be forced to use Resto staff, that´s for sure. Too bad Pve wise a Sorc cant afford to do so...

All Mag classe are forced to use Resto in PvP (magplar/magden maybe not)

In PvE Sorc have Surge! One of the best PvE selfheal! (Maybe also groupheal)

Derra

Tolino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sorc got nerfed - in every way you put it.
Twilight, harness, reach deserved those nerfs.
Hardened and empowered did not.
The buff to streak doesn’t make up for this in the slightest esp as sorc has to fight within 15m now.
Sorc has no synergy towards dots and hots which received massive buffs on pts.

Magblade compared to that has a little.

Both classes aren’t great compared to magdk or Templar.

All magica pales compared to stam.

Purely pvp perspective though. In pve it was arguably slightly buffed for no pet sorc - but at the cost of the classes identity.
Mag pales compared to stam here aswell though.

Don't look only at your nerfs!
Magsorc has one of the best burst-combos(with force pulse).

And survivability will be a lot better next patch (rapide regen and healing ward)

Magsorc can also have good dot pressure with entropy!

Lg

Ps. Sorry for my bad english

Have you actually tested what you’re saying regarding survivability with healing ward and rr? Because i have and my experience is 100% the opposite.

Also burst is worth less on pts due to how high healing generally is.
Sorc tries to pressure an opponent into mid health then burst them from there. On pts this is way harder than it is on live due to the increased healing.

I wouldn’t label entropy alone as good dot pressure.

Overall your post reads for me more like theorycrafted but not actually tested from someone with little experience in the class.
Sorry to say that if it’s not the case.

Edit: purely pvp talk here again.

Saril_Durzam

Tolino wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Pvp wise, Sorcs will be forced to use Resto staff, that´s for sure. Too bad Pve wise a Sorc cant afford to do so...

All Mag classe are forced to use Resto in PvP (magplar/magden maybe not)

In PvE Sorc have Surge! One of the best PvE selfheal! (Maybe also groupheal)

Pvp classes using resto? Magsorc, magblade, magcro maybe.

Pve. Surge? really?

1- Its not a heal on demand. You´re not always critting, plus if you dont attack, it doesnt heal...,it puts you on a prob in MANY situations in trials and dungeons. Example: running on lets say CR portals, you have to go to the crystals and at 50%... im stam, Vigor and voila, im full health. Im a Sorc... and until i reach the crystal and start critting, i wont regain health, and it will be still slow so i will probably die...

2- It doesnt protect well on damage spikes unless you use Shield aswell, its EXPENSIVE as hell (rememebr Sorc sustain issues?).

3- now Sorcs dont need the Major Sorcery buff so use just Surge for heals is a bit meh.

Im not using Surge now, i dont find many reasons to use it after patch apart from the Matriarch supernerf which makes me find another selfheal.

Maybe switching buff to Minor Force or Minor Berserker, would make the skill worth to slot again.

ku5h

Why is this even a question?!
Sorc got nerfed across the board, with a couple of insignificant buffs.
Things that got buffed, like HoTs and DoTs don't synergize at all with Sorc toolkit, which makes it even worse for Sorc, because it just pull other specs even more ahead.
Long story short. Mag Sorc went from top PvP class, to just pick anything else if you want to stay competitive.

Heymexa

PVE M.Sorc destroyed on the PTS server.
L. Flood (and morph) destroyed. Very low damage for a ground dot
Twinlight destroyed. Too little damage for an ability occupying 2 slots.

chongguang

ku5h wrote: »

Why is this even a question?!
Sorc got nerfed across the board, with a couple of insignificant buffs.
Things that got buffed, like HoTs and DoTs don't synergize at all with Sorc toolkit, which makes it even worse for Sorc, because it just pull other specs even more ahead.
Long story short. Mag Sorc went from top PvP class, to just pick anything else if you want to stay competitive.

btw，what top pvp class will be in next patch ？

Derra

chongguang wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Why is this even a question?!
Sorc got nerfed across the board, with a couple of insignificant buffs.
Things that got buffed, like HoTs and DoTs don't synergize at all with Sorc toolkit, which makes it even worse for Sorc, because it just pull other specs even more ahead.
Long story short. Mag Sorc went from top PvP class, to just pick anything else if you want to stay competitive.

btw，what top pvp class will be in next patch ？

Open world? I’d go with stamblade stamsorc or stamdk with the current pts patch.

Tolino

Derra wrote: »

[
Have you actually tested what you’re saying regarding survivability with healing ward and rr? Because i have and my experience is 100% the opposite.

Also burst is worth less on pts due to how high healing generally is.
Sorc tries to pressure an opponent into mid health then burst them from there. On pts this is way harder than it is on live due to the increased healing.
.

These statements contradict each other.
Wiht the new surg (proc also from critheal) Sorc have a "good" answer against Dots. (Dots and heal are overperforming)

Derra

Tolino wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

[
Have you actually tested what you’re saying regarding survivability with healing ward and rr? Because i have and my experience is 100% the opposite.

Also burst is worth less on pts due to how high healing generally is.
Sorc tries to pressure an opponent into mid health then burst them from there. On pts this is way harder than it is on live due to the increased healing.
.

These statements contradict each other.
Wiht the new surg (proc also from critheal) Sorc have a "good" answer against Dots. (Dots and heal are overperforming)

No they don’t. Because sorc does not have synergy with healing compared to other classes nor do they have the barspace to slot rr ward surge and dots alongside their normal mandatory skills.
Generally means in this case on most classes - light armor sorc is an exclusion to that on pts compared to the healing capabilities of any other mag class (magblade being 2nd to last but cloak being massively better at dealing with dots).

Which basically settles my case of - you’re someone talking only theory without practical experience on the pts.

Not even going into the debate of surge in nocp where crit is very limited and as a result the effects of surge aswell.

jecks33

just a question... how healing ward could be useful if it cast random on group members? it's good for solo players only?

chongguang

So which magic class can be on par with those stamina meta in next patch for both pvp and pve？

technohic

jecks33 wrote: »

just a question... how healing ward could be useful if it cast random on group members? it's good for solo players only?

Well people like templars HTD as a heal, yet I often have a hard time getting it to heal who I want.

Saril_Durzam

chongguang wrote: »

So which magic class can be on par with those stamina meta in next patch for both pvp and pve？

None, of course.

chongguang

So What will be meta in next patch , I know magic sorcerer might be just become an option and only option for Magic DPS.
Then move to the stamina DPS, which class will be better ? DK , NEC NB or someone else?

Evito

Sorc has more cleave DPS and single target DPS than you can currently get, but it's not strongest magicka DPS anymore. That's necro.

The meta will still be stamcros, that isn't changing and won't so long as they they give major vulnerability.

chongguang

Evito wrote: »

Sorc has more cleave DPS and single target DPS than you can currently get, but it's not strongest magicka DPS anymore. That's necro.

The meta will still be stamcros, that isn't changing and won't so long as they they give major vulnerability.

When mentioning Nec, other threads here are still complaining that MagCro did not get anything better than last patch .......

Anyron

Templar is now best mag i think.. But with self targeted rapid regen maybe sorc ( i hope they are going to do self heal from mutagen) .. I managed to do 42k mag, almost infinity magicka no cp build with magsorc.. But this isnt tested yet in pvp..

ku5h

chongguang wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

Why is this even a question?!
Sorc got nerfed across the board, with a couple of insignificant buffs.
Things that got buffed, like HoTs and DoTs don't synergize at all with Sorc toolkit, which makes it even worse for Sorc, because it just pull other specs even more ahead.
Long story short. Mag Sorc went from top PvP class, to just pick anything else if you want to stay competitive.

btw，what top pvp class will be in next patch ？

StamDK imo

LiquidPony

Heymexa wrote: »

PVE M.Sorc destroyed on the PTS server.
L. Flood (and morph) destroyed. Very low damage for a ground dot
Twinlight destroyed. Too little damage for an ability occupying 2 slots.

Magsorcs are hitting harder on PTS than they were in Elsweyr, though?

Lightning Flood was not "destroyed". I've got raid dummy parses where it does ~6k DPS. It may do marginally less single-target DPS than Flame Reach, but it's still very strong and will be preferable anywhere you care about cleave damage.

It doesn't really matter though because if you're running magicka, you're going to want magnecros for the Major Vulnerability. And in most places obviously stamina is stronger, and even there, everything aside from stamnecros is "irrelevant" as far as optimization goes ... because of Major Vulnerability.

ItsNotLiving

For the first time I’m gonna have to say stam sorc will be better than mag sorc so that should tell you they got nerfed pretty hard in PvP, not much of a PvE player so I can’t say anything about that. Mag sorc got a lot of things taken from them and none of the passives help with the new meta.