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Change cloak
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Why would a blade stun then run? When you get stunned, by any class not just a blade, that's when the burst is coming. Why would any decent blade run when you are stunned?
I'm quite sure YOU are the one mistaken about how this all works.
Always a good laugh when a non nightblade tries explaining how to play nightblade.
I had the same question about why a NB would stun then run.
I do see they tried to pawn this answer off on explaining a bad ganker. I find it curious how they called you out for noting such an obviously lacking answer. They falsely accuse you of creating a strawman because their answer makes no sense.
To Mojave. It is gankers that I enjoy hunting down and killing and it is gankers (and other NBs) that I enjoy using counters to cloak and clearing them out. The very people you seem to have trouble with are my favorite target when I run solo instead of small group. Unsure why you are having problems with them.4 -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. I gave specific examples and showed definitively that the counters do not function in the manner that you claim, you never gave any proof, you just kept trying the strategy of screaming "No it isn't!" hysterically and throwing insults to cover the fact that you were exposed conclusively as wrong and a liar. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.Edited by MojaveHeld on July 29, 2019 2:37AM1 -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Why would a blade stun then run? When you get stunned, by any class not just a blade, that's when the burst is coming. Why would any decent blade run when you are stunned?
I'm quite sure YOU are the one mistaken about how this all works.
Always a good laugh when a non nightblade tries explaining how to play nightblade.
I had the same question about why a NB would stun then run.
I do see they tried to pawn this answer off on explaining a bad ganker. I find it curious how they called you out for noting such an obviously lacking answer. They falsely accuse you of creating a strawman because their answer makes no sense.
To Mojave. It is gankers that I enjoy hunting down and killing and it is gankers (and other NBs) that I enjoy using counters to cloak and clearing them out. The very people you seem to have trouble with are my favorite target when I run solo instead of small group. Unsure why you are having problems with them.
You misunderstand, I've killed plenty of them. The playstyle itself is toxic. It allows trolls and griefers to have an impact instead of just getting good. So making them unable to recloak after attacking out of stealth is a much more balanced gameplay, and any objections to it can only come from dishonesty or ignorance.
Also, the stun the run is because they are outnumbered. It's literally what nearly every gankblade does if they're going at more than one person, so coming in here and gaslighting and just outright lying about it, when we've all seen the exact thing I described hundreds upon hundreds of times, proves that you are lying and that you are not interested in an actual discussion on the subject. You just want to lie to people's faces and mock them into submission. Too bad for you, I'm both a better player and better person than you, so that sort of bullying and manipulative behavior won't work. Enjoy being exposed as a fraud, you did it to yourself. Try being an actual decent, honest person next time.Edited by MojaveHeld on July 29, 2019 2:34AM1 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll8 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Why would a blade stun then run? When you get stunned, by any class not just a blade, that's when the burst is coming. Why would any decent blade run when you are stunned?
I'm quite sure YOU are the one mistaken about how this all works.
Always a good laugh when a non nightblade tries explaining how to play nightblade.
I had the same question about why a NB would stun then run.
I do see they tried to pawn this answer off on explaining a bad ganker. I find it curious how they called you out for noting such an obviously lacking answer. They falsely accuse you of creating a strawman because their answer makes no sense.
To Mojave. It is gankers that I enjoy hunting down and killing and it is gankers (and other NBs) that I enjoy using counters to cloak and clearing them out. The very people you seem to have trouble with are my favorite target when I run solo instead of small group. Unsure why you are having problems with them.
You misunderstand, I've killed plenty of them. The playstyle itself is toxic. It allows trolls and griefers to have an impact instead of just getting good. So making them unable to recloak after attacking out of stealth is a much more balanced gameplay, and any objections to it can only come from dishonesty or ignorance.
No, It is you that is not understanding.
If you effectively use the counters they cannot cloak again.
Further, you are being toxic accusing people who provide a very different and honest point of view as being dishonest and ignorant. Considering some of your replies, notably the "stun and run" reply then falsely accusing Kel of creating a strawman because they pointed out how your reply made no sense it is not us being dishonest here.9 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void4 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭A sorc streaks all across Cyrodiil and no one blinks.
A nightblade goes into cloak and everyone loses thier minds.
Preach brother. Any changes made to cloak need to be doubled for Streak. That's getting double buffed next patch too -.-
Cloak is so easy to counter, use AoEs people damn. I've changed all my toons to Dark Cloak because the HoT and Minor Protection is more useful than Shadowy Disguise in a fight 90% of the time.
Templar - Jabs/Sweeps, damage morph of Ritual
Sorc - Lightning Form/Hurricane
DK - Breath, Inhale
NB - Piercing Mark
All mag - Wall of Elements
Necro & Warden I've never played but probably got an AoE skill. Warden deffo have frost skills which prevent cloak and slow.
I always laugh till I *** in my pants when I read this. We all know that in the practice is *** difficult to take out of cloak a NB like this. Even magelight doesn't work well.
Please do some pvp and then you will see that 99% of the time when a NB used cloak then it goes in cloak for the complete amount of time to move and do whatever he wants.
I almost exclusively play Nightblade in PvP, so I know how easily I can be brought out of stealth.
The other I have a good amount of time on is MagDK, which I kill NBs on with ease.
Ice Blockade, Chain, Inhale, Leap.
1 Gapcloser to pull them to me, Ult that jumps me to them, two AoE skills that pull out of stealth and one even snares.
That's not even a focused build, just my standard loadout.5 -
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.
I’m still salty about the wings change and I don’t even play DK. It was so uncalled for.
It’s riduculous how everything is “nerf them nerf that but buff me” over the dumbest things. It’s not like we all don’t know ZOS “balances” by destroying skills, which I guess is what people are after.2 -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.
That's all abjectly false. You and the other bullies here, however, are trolls. Can never make a reasonable thread on the forums addressing actual balance with stealthing without bullies like you lying to peoples faces and mocking them. If you go back and look through the thread, I'm the only one who ever gave specific proof, all you and the other trolls did was say "Nuh-uh, hurr-durr!" and throw personal insults because you had no facts to back you up, when I clearly did. I'm done here, it's pointless to engage with people like you acting in bad faith.Edited by MojaveHeld on July 29, 2019 2:21AM1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭All classes should get cloak.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485914/all-classes-get-cloak/p1
Now imagine how salty people will get when I Streak->Streak->Streak->Streak->"Cloak"->Sneak. Wait a minute, why aren't more Sorcerer's running Invisibility Potions? lol
The biggest thing people forget is that all classes have an extremely powerful defensive ability. Save for Dragon Knight's who had their wings clipped.
Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise: 3 Second Invisibility, Suppresses DoTs, and makes all single target attacks miss. Broken/bypassed by AoE anything, Ground Targeted anything, Detection Potions, and anti-stealth specific abilities. Probably the single strongest non-ultimate defensive class ability in the game when not countered. The weakest when countered.
Templar's Living Dark: Heals you up to every half second when taking damage, immobilizes enemies that attack you. (PTS)
Dragon Knight's Reflective Scales: Reduces Projectile Damage by 50%. Not much to see here since DK's had their wings clipped. Probably the weakest of the bunch now.
Sorcerer's Ball of Lightning: Jump forward 10 meters, negating ALL projectiles for 2 seconds and stunning everyone at your starting location. 33% cost increase on each additional cast within 4 seconds. (Essentially, a 50% uptime cap on 0 projectile damage.)
Warden's Shimmering Shield: Damage Shield that soaks up to 3 projectiles or X projectile damage. Also grants Major Heroism on soaking a projectiles, as well as refunding magicka.
Necromancer: Sorry guys, I haven't played enough Necromancer to comment. Feel free to fill me in. Make sure to tag me so I can edit this post though.
When you complain about one "overpowered" class defensive ability, don't forget to mention them all. I don't think any of them are overpowered. They all have excellent defensive coverage for roughly the same cost, and they each have their own drawbacks.Edited by kypranb14_ESO on July 28, 2019 11:20PM5 -
Kel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »All classes should get cloak.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485914/all-classes-get-cloak/p1
Now imagine how salty people will get when I Streak->Streak->Streak->Streak->"Cloak"->Sneak. Wait a minute, why aren't more Sorcerer's running Invisibility Potions? lol
The biggest thing people forget is that all classes have an extremely powerful defensive ability. Save for Dragon Knight's who had their wings clipped.
Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise: 3 Second Invisibility, Suppresses DoTs, and makes all single target attacks miss. Broken/bypassed by AoE anything, Ground Targeted anything, Detection Potions, and anti-stealth specific abilities. Probably the single strongest non-ultimate defensive class ability in the game when not countered. The weakest when countered.
Templar's Living Dark: Heals you up to every half second when taking damage, immobilizes enemies that attack you. (PTS)
Dragon Knight's Reflective Scales: Reduces Projectile Damage by 50%. Not much to see here since DK's had their wings clipped. Probably the weakest of the bunch now.
Sorcerer's Ball of Lightning: Jump forward 10 meters, negating ALL projectiles for 2 seconds and stunning everyone at your starting location. 33% cost increase on each additional cast within 4 seconds. (Essentially, a 50% uptime cap on 0 projectile damage.)
Warden's Shimmering Shield: Damage Shield that soaks up to 3 projectiles or X projectile damage. Also grants Major Heroism on soaking a projectiles, as well as refunding magicka.
Necromancer: Sorry guys, I haven't played enough Necromancer to comment. Feel free to fill me in. Make sure to tag me so I can edit this post though.
When you complain about one "overpowered" class defensive ability, don't forget to mention them all. I don't think any of them are overpowered. They all have excellent defensive coverage for roughly the same cost, and they each have their own drawbacks.
The most reasonable post I've seen in this thread.
Well said.3 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.
I’m still salty about the wings change and I don’t even play DK. It was so uncalled for.
It’s riduculous how everything is “nerf them nerf that but buff me” over the dumbest things. It’s not like we all don’t know ZOS “balances” by destroying skills, which I guess is what people are after.
Wing were a HUGE problem back when you couldn’t fight a DK in Melee and you would see ten people heavy lightning and resto to kill this has not been the case in a long time.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
Sav✭✭It's a L2P issue. Cloak has a ton of counters, like Magelight, Evil Hunter, Detect Pots, Soul Assault, any AoE's, Hurricane, Volatile Armor upon casting it, and Piercing Mark, Haunting Curse, and Purifying Light (although not as effect as the other counters.) If you choose not to use one of these, then that's on you.3
-
Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.
I’m still salty about the wings change and I don’t even play DK. It was so uncalled for.
It’s riduculous how everything is “nerf them nerf that but buff me” over the dumbest things. It’s not like we all don’t know ZOS “balances” by destroying skills, which I guess is what people are after.
Wing were a HUGE problem back when you couldn’t fight a DK in Melee and you would see ten people heavy lightning and resto to kill this has not been the case in a long time.
Since the hard limit per cast, it’s not been that bad. The worst equipped to deal with Wings were magNBs, and all they needed was to have Funnel Health not be considered a projectile (which imo is strange given the animation originates on the target) and they’d have no more reason to complain. Plus you could light attack to make it fall off, or ZOS could've just made it so secondary effects of attacks go through wings and leave the rest well enough alone. It didn’t need to be turned into Evasion2.01 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.
I’m still salty about the wings change and I don’t even play DK. It was so uncalled for.
It’s riduculous how everything is “nerf them nerf that but buff me” over the dumbest things. It’s not like we all don’t know ZOS “balances” by destroying skills, which I guess is what people are after.
Wing were a HUGE problem back when you couldn’t fight a DK in Melee and you would see ten people heavy lightning and resto to kill this has not been the case in a long time.
Since the hard limit per cast, it’s not been that bad. The worst equipped to deal with Wings were magNBs, and all they needed was to have Funnel Health not be considered a projectile (which imo is strange given the animation originates on the target) and they’d have no more reason to complain. Plus you could light attack to make it fall off, or ZOS could've just made it so secondary effects of attacks go through wings and leave the rest well enough alone. It didn’t need to be turned into Evasion2.0
I completely agree and I main an Archer. It was way over the top it was in a good place if anything I would have been okay with the limit being changed to 6 from 4 that would have been just fine this is too much.
If they are keeping this in then it should be a damage reduction from channels too.
Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void1 -
Commancho✭✭✭✭✭Anyone comming up here with Magelight or detection pots either has never played PVP or is playing exclusively NB and trolling forum after hours. We are talking about ability which lasts for 5s and which has pathetic range of 6m for cost of over 5k magicka. Any vampire NB using speed traits on jewelry will never let you to get that close. Using potions is costing gold and it's a sacrafice of either damage or sustain while cloaking is free and easy to sustain even on stam.3
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Jhalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anyone comming up here with Magelight or detection pots either has never played PVP or is playing exclusively NB and trolling forum after hours. We are talking about ability which lasts for 5s and which has pathetic range of 6m for cost of over 5k magicka. Any vampire NB using speed traits on jewelry will never let you to get that close. Using potions is costing gold and it's a sacrafice of either damage or sustain while cloaking is free and easy to sustain even on stam.
Also on the list of effective counters is every single AoE, CC, and beam ability in the game, including Lightning and Resto heavies.
Also it’s silly you complain about having to spend gold for detect pots, and yet you bring up golden Swift jewels as if those arent 1) much limited in use 2) very expensive to craft/upgrade and 3) require sacrificing sustain or damage.
Cloak is also not easy to sustain, unless you spec into mag recovery or pop tri pots to fuel it, thus giving up damage to maintain it (so that “potions cost money” is a null point). If you don’t invest in sustain, you can only cloak three to four times, and that’s assuming you don’t use Shade, Fear, or Blur at all in that time.Edited by Jhalin on July 29, 2019 3:13AM3 -
Tipsy✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »b]Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise:[/b] 3 Second Invisibility, Suppresses DoTs, and makes all single target attacks miss. Broken/bypassed by AoE anything, Ground Targeted anything, Detection Potions, and anti-stealth specific abilities. Probably the single strongest non-ultimate defensive class ability in the game when not countered. The weakest when countered.
How easily its countered.
If anything,I think shadowy disguise should be buffed to like 6 seconds
Going from shadowy disguise to crouching could give a reduced detection radius for several secs after shadowy disguise ends.
A 5 procent increased pickpocket success rate
On top of that they could have an ability to "shrug" off detection after 6 seconds ..lke refreshing path could gain a new use this way
-having the "prevent attack innocent" active does not allow you to use shadowy disguise atm while an npc is in front of you.
Thus having to weave the cloak sometimes is prevented in cities.An increased duration would also make this less of an issue.Edited by Tipsy on July 29, 2019 12:54AMhttps://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462527/champion-of-the-gods-deadra-worship-cp-to-next-level
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/464219/out-of-combat-personality-mood-actionbar
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279458/content-packs-for-organizing-guild-events
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/276626/suggestion-alliance-specific-justice-system-revisit-the-innocent-npc-label1 -
TheUrbanWizard✭✭✭✭I wonder how many of these nerf cloak people have rolled a nb in competitive pvp. If they have, and play it for some time, they will know what counters it.
I guess that is all I’m asking you to doEdited by TheUrbanWizard on July 29, 2019 12:59AM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »MojaveHeld wrote: »Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.
If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC
You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.
That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.
So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.
Which any class is capable of.
Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.
There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.
What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.
What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.
What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.
That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.
Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp
To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.
That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.
The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.
Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.
The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.
Yeah I don’t care if all your characters are Nightblades this and every other comment you made in this post disqualify on any topic to do with Nightblades.
The only people disqualified from the topic are those who dispute it. I'm 100% factually correct here, that's not debatable. So you and the other trollblades mocking me and disputing it have all disqualified yourselves from the conversation. Only honest people allowed here, of which you have proven you are not. Bye, don't let the door hit you on the way out.
No, you’re a troll. You’re definitely not correct when it really is just potatoes that struggle with cloak.
Clearly it’s not that hard to counter when multiple people are making a point of fight NBs for fun. It’s clearly not that hard to beat when NBs are nonexistent in high MMR BGs. It’s hardly an issue when every AoE, every hard CC, every channeled attack including Resto and Lightning heavies stop cloak from providing any use at all.
You haven’t given any actual evidence of cloak needing to be changed, it’s just you claiming it’s OP because you refuse to use counter effectively despite how widely available the counters are. Skilled NBs use many tools to escape, more than just using cloak, and they very much deserve to escape and evade when they’ve paired their shade with cloak and dodge roll
Don’t waste your time this guy is a troll or just wants everyone to fight the way he does. No point in talking to people like this. Same kind of players that complain cause they can’t shoot archers through wings and the guys that hate any range build but don’t want to use a gap closer.
You just can’t help player like that.
That's all abjectly false. You and the other bullies here, however, are trolls. Can never make a reasonable thread on the forums addressing actual balance with stealthing without bullies like you lying to peoples faces and mocking them. I'm done here, it's pointless to engage with people like you acting in bad faith.
Says the person who stated those who disagree with him are disqualified from disputing your claim and that any objections to it can only come from dishonesty or ignorance.
Odd how we are not challenged pulling NBs out of cloak and getting the job done yet somehow we are the ones ignorant and are not qualified to discuss the subject. I suppose when you are on the losing side of an argument it is best to try disparaging those that have pointed out how wrong you are.4 -
Cavedog✭✭✭✭✭
✭.......... it's hilarious that all the nb's that can't play without cloak think it's a skill.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.......... it's hilarious that all the nb's that can't play without cloak think it's a skill.
LOL, wut? It is hilarious that people are challenged using the counters to cloak and somehow try to say it is not a skill when by definition is it. Almost fell out of my chair with this one.8 -
Cavedog✭✭✭✭✭
✭.......... it's hilarious that all the nb's that can't play without cloak think it's a skill.
LOL, wut? It is hilarious that people are challenged using the counters to cloak and somehow try to say it is not a skill when by definition is it. Almost fell out of my chair with this one.
Good. I phrased it that way on purpose.2 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »b]Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise:[/b] 3 Second Invisibility, Suppresses DoTs, and makes all single target attacks miss. Broken/bypassed by AoE anything, Ground Targeted anything, Detection Potions, and anti-stealth specific abilities. Probably the single strongest non-ultimate defensive class ability in the game when not countered. The weakest when countered.
How easily its countered.
If anything,I think shadowy disguise should be buffed to like 6 seconds
Going from shadowy disguise to crouching could give a reduced detection radius for several secs after shadowy disguise ends.
A 5 procent increased pickpocket success rate
On top of that they could have an ability to "shrug" off detection after 6 seconds ..lke refreshing path could gain a new use this way
-having the "prevent attack innocent" active does not allow you to use shadowy disguise atm while an npc is in front of you.
Thus having to weave the cloak sometimes is prevented in cities.An increased duration would also make this less of an issue.
I believe this is fixed on the PTS.
I don't think cloak needs a duration buff, or radius buff though. I main a Magblade and casting it once every 3 seconds is manageable. I'd be fine with a Pickpocket Chance buff, mostly because it doesn't effect combat in anyway. I think you will find many who dislike the idea though, because it further reinforces the "Nightblades are for Stealth" idea.
If you want your Nightblade to be harder to Detect I suggest rolling a Khajiit Nightblade (Bonus to Pickpocketing too), and/or wearing stealth detection radius reduction sets, like Night Mother's Embrace.1 -
kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »All classes should get cloak.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/485914/all-classes-get-cloak/p1
Now imagine how salty people will get when I Streak->Streak->Streak->Streak->"Cloak"->Sneak. Wait a minute, why aren't more Sorcerer's running Invisibility Potions? lol
The biggest thing people forget is that all classes have an extremely powerful defensive ability. Save for Dragon Knight's who had their wings clipped.
Nightblade's Shadowy Disguise: 3 Second Invisibility, Suppresses DoTs, and makes all single target attacks miss. Broken/bypassed by AoE anything, Ground Targeted anything, Detection Potions, and anti-stealth specific abilities. Probably the single strongest non-ultimate defensive class ability in the game when not countered. The weakest when countered.
Templar's Living Dark: Heals you up to every half second when taking damage, immobilizes enemies that attack you. (PTS)
Dragon Knight's Reflective Scales: Reduces Projectile Damage by 50%. Not much to see here since DK's had their wings clipped. Probably the weakest of the bunch now.
Sorcerer's Ball of Lightning: Jump forward 10 meters, negating ALL projectiles for 2 seconds and stunning everyone at your starting location. 33% cost increase on each additional cast within 4 seconds. (Essentially, a 50% uptime cap on 0 projectile damage.)
Warden's Shimmering Shield: Damage Shield that soaks up to 3 projectiles or X projectile damage. Also grants Major Heroism on soaking a projectiles, as well as refunding magicka.
Necromancer: Sorry guys, I haven't played enough Necromancer to comment. Feel free to fill me in. Make sure to tag me so I can edit this post though.
When you complain about one "overpowered" class defensive ability, don't forget to mention them all. I don't think any of them are overpowered. They all have excellent defensive coverage for roughly the same cost, and they each have their own drawbacks.
The most reasonable post I've seen in this thread.
Well said.
I've had to post this or something similar several times, I should probably just keep a Copy & Paste ready for these ridiculous "nerf cloak" threads.
Most of the time I wonder if these posts are made by people who
A: Only play one class, and don't know that the grass isn't greener on the other side.
B: Are new to the game, and haven't had time to discover Shadowy Disguise's counters yet.
C: People who want their class to be the only class. I understand wanting your class to be strong, but not so strong that there isn't any competition.1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
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No, we don't, but it's effing depresing to play this fool game when you have to chase and search cloaking cowards especialy when we consider that more than half of players in BGs are playing NBs on daily basis. It's getting even more hilarious when these one trick ponnies are using speed builds at the same time. Each cost of cloak should cost double more than the previous one, simple as that. If other abilities need to be buffed - I'm okay with that.
You can blame this game's ridiculous damage bursts for that.
If players could actually engage in combat on this game instead of being instantly mowed down by multiple opponents they wouldn't have to resort to invisible speed builds to live and have fun in PvP.
If they toned down the damage and made it to where players could actually have fun and enjoy some real melee combat you wouldn't see so many players flocking to Night Blade for cloak.Edited by Jeremy on July 29, 2019 3:35AM4 -
TheRealSniker✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cloak is so overpowered that magblade who could abuse cloak the most was complete trash in open world for the past 2 years cause of the lack of mobility.
End of topic youre all 20IQ creatures.2 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭You need to slot ONE skill on your bar and it completely nullifies cloak. Have you ever tried to slot it? Do me a favor try that and see how it works before you ask for things to be re worked. Might be user error.3 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭Talons is an immobilization. NBs have that in spades with Fear.
Everyone has access to fear on the PTS and my guess is you have not been rooted and CCed at the same time requiring both a CC break and dodge roll to get away.
Cloak has multiple hard counters available to players. They work very well.
Cloak is one of if not the only mechanic no other class has access to. Not gonna go into each class defining skill or mechanic but Cloak is really the only thing left that isn’t found someplace else like a weapon or guild skill line. Everyone should get access to Cloak. That would immediately quiet up all the whiners.
Besides the very solid fact that Cloak has multiple counters not every class has access to everything.
I can tell you for a fact the counters work as long as you bother to use them. Even at that, not everyone in the group need to slot a counter as groups are supposed to work together anyhow.
I really enjoy pulling NBs out of stealth and taking them out of play. I am glad I figure out how to work the counter into my playstyle and build instead of trying to get the NB nerfed because it is pretty great getting things done.
There are counters to cloak but it’s not even close to other forms of mitigation. The other forms of mitigation don’t even come close to being able to “reset the fight” repeatedly at will. A good night blade gets detected and just re-cloaks and can just reposition quickly immediately canceling out the detection. And the biggest kicker? You can’t even attack what you can’t see. NBs can use all forms of mitigation AND cloak.
You contradict yourself.
If you actually counter cloak the NB cannot reset the fight at all. If that NB is detected he cannot just recloak. Using the counters ceases the cloak and they cannot immediately cloak again. It really is that simple.
Of course they can use other strategies and skills to evade you and then they can eventually cloak but we are talking about using player skill and not relying on cloak itself as you are attempting to erroneously suggest.
I can say this as fact as I see myself and others effectively pull NBs out of stealth, prevent them from stealthing and kill them. Yes, I encounter NBs that are skilled and successfully evade me but I really do not think being less than 100% successful is a reason to ask for a nerf.
Thank you for being reasonable.1 -
Ender1310✭✭✭✭Skills with detection... people run out resources to spam it.
Detect pots are temporary.
When a nightblade uses cloak + mobility repositioning + and healing... good luck.
They will just reposition or wait for the enemy to run out of the detection capability. I agree, bad nigtblades go down easily, but good ones are nearly impossible to lock down.
You do know that you can build for sustain right? I call BS on your run out of resources. This alone makes it sound like you don't know how to play. If your running out of resources that means that you pulled that NB out of stealth multiple occasions.
So good NB's can what? Evade you? Your mad at that? That that they can evade you? Not kill you. Evade you. That's what your talking about now. EVADE. Wah wah this NB can evade me indefinitely nerf him!
Your building wrong. If your running out of resources before the NB is running out of resources just cloaking every two seconds then your build is fubar. Your not hi level enough to have this conversation. ANY ELITE PLAYER has a build that can almost infinitely sustain a regular rotation with a heavy attack or two. Running inner light or whatever it's called shouldn't OOR you before the NB who's spamming cloak and shields and whatever to stay alive. Also if the NB has that much sustain than they prob's hit like wet noodle. This is on you.
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