Samadhi wrote: »

...
(as a side note -- started using Detection potions for the first time during Beta; was promoting them even before revealing flare got added in as a new skill)
...

ThePedge wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

A sorc streaks all across Cyrodiil and no one blinks.

A nightblade goes into cloak and everyone loses thier minds.

Preach brother. Any changes made to cloak need to be doubled for Streak. That's getting double buffed next patch too -.-

Cloak is so easy to counter, use AoEs people damn. I've changed all my toons to Dark Cloak because the HoT and Minor Protection is more useful than Shadowy Disguise in a fight 90% of the time.

Templar - Jabs/Sweeps, damage morph of Ritual
Sorc - Lightning Form/Hurricane
DK - Breath, Inhale
NB - Piercing Mark
All mag - Wall of Elements

Necro & Warden I've never played but probably got an AoE skill. Warden deffo have frost skills which prevent cloak and slow.

Skoomah wrote: »

Talons is an immobilization. NBs have that in spades with Fear.

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.

If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC

You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.

That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.

So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.

Which any class is capable of.

Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.

There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.

What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.

What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.

What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.

That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.

Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp

To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.

idk wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.

If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC

You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.

That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.

So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.

Which any class is capable of.

Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.

There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.

What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.

What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.

What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.

That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.

Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp

To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.

That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.

The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.

Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.

Kel wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.

If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC

You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.

That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.

So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.

Which any class is capable of.

Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.

There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.

What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.

What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.

What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.

That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.

Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp

To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.

That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.

The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.

Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.

The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.

Why would a blade stun then run? When you get stunned, by any class not just a blade, that's when the burst is coming. Why would any decent blade run when you are stunned?

I'm quite sure YOU are the one mistaken about how this all works.
Always a good laugh when a non nightblade tries explaining how to play nightblade.

GhostofDatthaw wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

idk wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

MojaveHeld wrote: »

Being able to both initiate and reset the fight at will is not a healthy mechanic to have in the game, something certainly does need to be changed. The counters to it do not effectively prevent this a large chunk of the time, it is in fact a design problem, not a l2p problem.

If you use
- any AoE
- Detect pots
- Detect poisons
- any CC

You should not be having trouble with an average NB. A good NB should 100% kick your rear, just like a skill player on any other class too.

That's not true in the slightest. The cooldown on those pots is several times greater than their duration, making them useless against a cloaking nb the majority of the time. An AoE only briefly pulls them out of cloak, allowing them to sprint a few feet, recloak, and reset the fight at their leisure. How it currently works, cloak is an extremely low-risk, extremely high-reward skill. How it should work is to be high-risk, high-reward, for example, by making it impossible to recloak for a few seconds after attacking out of stealth. So they can still pull it off if their burst is high enough, but if not, they're screwed, which is how it should be. You want to have a shot at killing someone without them being able to attack you? Great, then you better pull it off instantly or be okay with being dead. That's balanced design.

So your complaint isn’t about cloak, it’s about getting ganked.

Which any class is capable of.

Cloak is the easiest to counter skill, you can make the effectiveness zero, which isn’t how any other ability gets countered. If you counter healing with Defile, they still get to heal. If you counter a dash with a gap closer, they still traveled that distance. If you use Oblivion against a shield, then shield still persists.

There is absolutely no ground to complain about cloak, or demand even more nerfs, until the invisibility is unbreakable. If it can be rendered useless against any competent player, then it has no reason to be nerfed.

What you seek to want is to have it removed from the game, since you don’t seem to think a NB should ever be able to used their last iconic ability if you decide you don’t want them to.

What you wrote makes it look like you didn't even read what you responded to. I very clearly didn't say get rid of stealth for NBs. I pointed out that balanced gameplay would mean that they couldn't constantly stealth and reset fights, which is not debatable. so they can still stealth, much more reliably than other classes, but if they want to constantly gank, then they either have to be great at it or be prepared to die. That's how it should be, and it currently isn't. Being able to attack another player without them being able to attack you is the single most useful ability in the game, that's why it can be made to be zero in certain situations, it's inherently OP. And currently, it's to easy to pull that off without being countered, so it certainly does need to be altered.

What you wrote makes it look like you’ve never even attempted to counter cloak. They CANNOT enter stealth at will, unless you choose not to you any of the wide varieties of counters.

That is such a ridiculous “fact” you claim as unquestionable, when every class has options to shut down cloak.

Caltrops, Steel Tornado, Dawnbreaker, Magelight, Wall of Elements, Eye of the Storm, Meteor, Hurricane, Talons, Petrify, Matriarch (til next patch it guess), Curse, Volatile Armor, Ritual of Retribution, Jabs, Power of the Light, Jesus Beam, Frost Storm, Shalks, Sap Essence, Mark Target, Boneyard, Scythe, Grave Grasp

To name a chunk of the abilities that can pull someone from cloak or prevent them from using it entirely.

That's utterly and completely false. Simply sprinting a few feet and recloaking can get around nearly all of those. Now that I know you are outright lying to people's faces, this conversation is over. You have been exposed as a fraud, congrats.

The NB cannot sprint while cloaked so the question is, what are you doing while the NB is sprinting away? If you just stand there expecting the NB to just wait for you to kill them I can see where you would be mistaken like this.

Edit: corrected spelling of spring to sprint.

The initial gank stuns, so by the time you break free, they've already sprinted and are about to recloak. Most gankers have major expedition up before they hit too, so it's quite easy to pull off. You seem to be mistaken about how this all works.

Why would a blade stun then run? When you get stunned, by any class not just a blade, that's when the burst is coming. Why would any decent blade run when you are stunned?

I'm quite sure YOU are the one mistaken about how this all works.
Always a good laugh when a non nightblade tries explaining how to play nightblade.

Are you joking? You literally just lied, this is amazing. Ganking, stunning, bursting one or two attacks and then sprinting and recloaking is what nearly all gankblades do. Did you really just intentionally strawman, while throwing out insults tot he person who actually posted the correct information? Wow, troll detected. Either that or a very weak gankblade.

You have no idea how to gank, and by your comments you have 0 idea how to nightblade, let alone magnb.