Vigor is too OP
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MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭comparing solo heals
live lets look at a 10k vigor over 5 seconds = 2k hps
pts resolving at a 18.5k over 5 seconds = 3.7k hps
pts echo at a 18.5k over 10 sec = 1.85k hps <---- with a 2s gap opening to a burst rotation0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭say we have 10 people
live: 10 players each with a 10k heal over 5 seconds = 20k hps
pts: 10 players each with a 18.5k heal over 10 seconds = 18.5k hps <--- wow group aoe is 7.5% less than live
live 24 players = 48k hps
pts 24 players = 44.4k hps
Except one player can hit it 4 times and do other things for 6 GCDs on PTS, where on live they have to hit vigor 4 times every 5 seconds for the same effect.
It is most definitely a buff.
So let me get this straight. If the self heal vigor morph is 2k per tick for 5 seconds, and it was changed to 1.9k per second for 10 minutes you’d call that a nerf too? I’ve seen it all.Edited by Iskiab on July 28, 2019 1:48PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Group- you will see a big loss in hps, even greater if you have a large group. Not to mention some people will take the solo morph of vigor and won't want to pay to change it each time they enter a group.
essentially the vigor change buffed solo gameplay while hard nerfed group heals. Please don't just compare tool tips and assume it is op that isn't how the game works, mathematically you lose out in every scenario other than dueling or true 1vX
This is wrong, the stamina group heal was buffed as well. It’s healing was increased and duration doubled, the effect is you get the same amount of HPS over 10 seconds now instead of 5 seconds.
Yes yes. Lets just forget the tiny little detail the tick rate got halved.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Group- you will see a big loss in hps, even greater if you have a large group. Not to mention some people will take the solo morph of vigor and won't want to pay to change it each time they enter a group.
essentially the vigor change buffed solo gameplay while hard nerfed group heals. Please don't just compare tool tips and assume it is op that isn't how the game works, mathematically you lose out in every scenario other than dueling or true 1vX
This is wrong, the stamina group heal was buffed as well. It’s healing was increased and duration doubled, the effect is you get the same amount of HPS over 10 seconds now instead of 5 seconds.
Yes yes. Lets just forget the tiny little detail the tick rate got halved.
Who cares if each tick is twice as strong.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭...on the other hand, if they didnt buff vigor, every stambuild would die to entropy and soultrap ez af.
Yeah cause we all still need to eff about defensive thinking and go all in on insta kills. Right. No no. We want unsurvivable bursts and all damage specs while having Vigor save our ass all the time.
Let me dig up all you stamina's arguments against BoL from 3-4 years ago...Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Group- you will see a big loss in hps, even greater if you have a large group. Not to mention some people will take the solo morph of vigor and won't want to pay to change it each time they enter a group.
essentially the vigor change buffed solo gameplay while hard nerfed group heals. Please don't just compare tool tips and assume it is op that isn't how the game works, mathematically you lose out in every scenario other than dueling or true 1vX
This is wrong, the stamina group heal was buffed as well. It’s healing was increased and duration doubled, the effect is you get the same amount of HPS over 10 seconds now instead of 5 seconds.
Yes yes. Lets just forget the tiny little detail the tick rate got halved.
Who cares if each tick is twice as strong.
But its not twice as strong?0 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
Oh and did you see the Shield nerfs? Congratulation on ignoring that fact...
I will agree with you on 1 point stamina has four weapon skill lines to choose from.
Now stamina roll dodging sprinting and blocking eats our resource for dealing damage. Magicka on a stam is for utility skills. Magicka has access to damage shields and class heals.
@Idinuse
Your argument is stam has 4 weapon skill lines while magicka only has 2 options correct? What class do you main?
I ask because here is a proposal question based on what ever class you main pick the skill that applies.
Sorc crystal frag now costs stamina and deals physical damage chance to proc a heal on the insta cast
Dk flame lash now costs stamina and deals poison damage with the same additional effect
Templar radiant oppression now costs stamina and deals physical damage and now uses stamina for this morph effect
Warden either morph of swarm uses same effect and costs stamina and changes the damage type to disease
Necromancer avid boneyard now costs stamina with the same effect and dealing disease damage now
We will trade a major magicka skill from each class for an entire weapon skill line for magicka with my proposals. I specifically tried to name skills that are or were used by each class for this question.
I ask this because people don’t seem to understand that a magicka character usually uses more class skills than their stamina counter parts including a class heal. Also sure it’s easy to get but stamina has to do pvp to get a decent heal skill magicka has heals thru class skills as well as damage shields.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Iskiab you are missing the point if you go for the lazy 10s morph or in your case a 10min morph there will be less overall heals and will be much easier to burst through. So yes I would probably still use the burst 5s morph that does more hps with half the burst window
You’re missing the big picture.
People who pvp solo will use the self heal only morph. A group of 6 who each use the group heal morph and use 1 GCD every 10 seconds for group healing will have triple the HPS as the solo player.
Small scale/solo players won’t stand a chance after this patch.
I’m primarily large scale it doesn’t bother me, but this will even translate to BGs. I’m always mystified about how clueless some people are about how changes effect the game.
I solo queue BGs too, I’m thinking I’ll need to do premades after the patch because there’ll be solo style noobs who will use the wrong morph.Edited by Iskiab on July 28, 2019 8:14PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
Oh and did you see the Shield nerfs? Congratulation on ignoring that fact...
I will agree with you on 1 point stamina has four weapon skill lines to choose from.
Now stamina roll dodging sprinting and blocking eats our resource for dealing damage. Magicka on a stam is for utility skills. Magicka has access to damage shields and class heals.
@Idinuse
Your argument is stam has 4 weapon skill lines while magicka only has 2 options correct? What class do you main?
I ask because here is a proposal question based on what ever class you main pick the skill that applies.
Sorc crystal frag now costs stamina and deals physical damage chance to proc a heal on the insta cast
Dk flame lash now costs stamina and deals poison damage with the same additional effect
Templar radiant oppression now costs stamina and deals physical damage and now uses stamina for this morph effect
Warden either morph of swarm uses same effect and costs stamina and changes the damage type to disease
Necromancer avid boneyard now costs stamina with the same effect and dealing disease damage now
We will trade a major magicka skill from each class for an entire weapon skill line for magicka with my proposals. I specifically tried to name skills that are or were used by each class for this question.
I ask this because people don’t seem to understand that a magicka character usually uses more class skills than their stamina counter parts including a class heal. Also sure it’s easy to get but stamina has to do pvp to get a decent heal skill magicka has heals thru class skills as well as damage shields.
No *** Sherlock, with 1 entire offensive Weapon Skill Tree to choose from...lol. And if a Mag build really needs independent self heals, it's the Resto staff we need to turn to, bye goes the 2nd offensive bar that all Stamina have.. The class heals are about as sexy as the stamina leech heals form everybloodywhere ones, Templars excluded.
Currently I main a Stamina Necromancer, using Vigor by the way... but good try. And class skills, please you can't wave build diversion with, one leans to use class skills while we don't like them very much. That isn't balance any way you spin it.
Having so much offensive skill lines to choose from plus a Vigor is just too much. Again. Tie it to a bloody Weapon Skill Line, I suggest Bow, which is the Stamina Range Skill Tree. Still available to you and you get Ranged DPS at the same time...Oh that goes against build diversity? Well then, give Magicka the same dang options.Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 2:14PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »It is not OP. Not at all. Stop the nerf threads.
Stop the nerf threads as long as it's about Stamina?
If you want magicka to be good, suggest buffs for magicka. Stop trying to get stamina nerfed. Sick of the "my playstyle was nerfed, they should nerf your's too!" whiners who throw a temper tantrum every *** update, putting us back into the *** spot of playing darts with the reward being what's gonna get gutted next. You want the game to be enjoyable? Stop asking for nerfs.6 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Iskiab you are missing the point if you go for the lazy 10s morph or in your case a 10min morph there will be less overall heals and will be much easier to burst through. So yes I would probably still use the burst 5s morph that does more hps with half the burst window
You’re missing the big picture.
People who pvp solo will use the self heal only morph. A group of 6 who each use the group heal morph and use 1 GCD every 10 seconds for group healing will have triple the HPS as the solo player.
Small scale/solo players won’t stand after this patch.
I’m primarily large scale it doesn’t bother me, but this will even translate to BGs. I’m always mystified about how clueless some people are about how changes effect the game.
I solo queue BGs too, I’m thinking I’ll need to do premades after the patch because there’ll be solo style noobs who will use the wrong morph.
So 6 people using group heal will heal more than one person using own heal? You just got it all figured out :O3 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭In solo play against a larger group that is POSSIBLY using aoe heals they will still be doing less overall and it won't be as close to a burst heal. Not to mention how los will work with these players chasing you and missing heals on each other for 10 seconds. In most 1vX scenarios you build to burst a whole healthbar anyways so I doubt I'm going to have any problems next patch.0
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Demra✭✭✭Vortigaunt wrote: »OlumoGarbag wrote: »So, for the proud "no-cp" guy, I've test it on PTS, took me 5 min, same build as OP :
Tell me how weak it is once again plz..
(y it's not english but the value is the same so who care :>)
@Vlad9425 :
Healing ward is OP right now on PTS, still don't know why they touch it when it work fine on live..
It's not because something is OP than other need the same, that not how balance work.
When something is OP, nerf it.
Also healer have love so much power heal and we got nothing to compensate.
Their is no reason to buff vigor considering how well it perform on live already.
That said, it's just my opinion.
good luck running your exact cp build in non cp, smartbrain. You have to adjust your builds alot more for non-cp since sustain is utter ***. so instead of 40k stam and 5k wd you end up with 28k stam and 3k Wd. Which loweres your tooltip already by half. Then you dont get any cp passive healing from any % multipliers. So if your not a DK with maj mending and a *** ton of % multipliers your vigor will not exceed 2k.
Stop with the no cp argument. This game is balanced around CP and therefore CP is the prism you look through when you balance ***. No cp just adapts after each patch.
Where did zos state that they balance the game solely around cp? So BGs don't count as well? Only you're preferred playstyle? How convenient.
Instead how about you give suggestions that would be beneficial to all players. How do you make vigor balanced both in cp and no cp? Where actually lies the issue? Consider the other current topics in pts forum about other op forms of healing.Edited by Demra on July 28, 2019 2:13PM2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »It is not OP. Not at all. Stop the nerf threads.
Stop the nerf threads as long as it's about Stamina?
If you want magicka to be good, suggest buffs for magicka. Stop trying to get stamina nerfed. Sick of the "my playstyle was nerfed, they should nerf your's too!" whiners who throw a temper tantrum every *** update, putting us back into the *** spot of playing darts with the reward being what's gonna get gutted next. You want the game to be enjoyable? Stop asking for nerfs.
And that pretty much confirms it. After the Templar, Sorc and all about mag nerfs hysteria for months, ney years, you people have the nerve.Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 2:12PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
Urusovite✭✭✭Vigor, healing ward, and regeneration. This is obvious.PS4 NA
Medium Stam Dk since launch
Technologically incompetent I'm told
Solo play is the only way1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
Oh and did you see the Shield nerfs? Congratulation on ignoring that fact...
I will agree with you on 1 point stamina has four weapon skill lines to choose from.
Now stamina roll dodging sprinting and blocking eats our resource for dealing damage. Magicka on a stam is for utility skills. Magicka has access to damage shields and class heals.
@Idinuse
Your argument is stam has 4 weapon skill lines while magicka only has 2 options correct? What class do you main?
I ask because here is a proposal question based on what ever class you main pick the skill that applies.
Sorc crystal frag now costs stamina and deals physical damage chance to proc a heal on the insta cast
Dk flame lash now costs stamina and deals poison damage with the same additional effect
Templar radiant oppression now costs stamina and deals physical damage and now uses stamina for this morph effect
Warden either morph of swarm uses same effect and costs stamina and changes the damage type to disease
Necromancer avid boneyard now costs stamina with the same effect and dealing disease damage now
We will trade a major magicka skill from each class for an entire weapon skill line for magicka with my proposals. I specifically tried to name skills that are or were used by each class for this question.
I ask this because people don’t seem to understand that a magicka character usually uses more class skills than their stamina counter parts including a class heal. Also sure it’s easy to get but stamina has to do pvp to get a decent heal skill magicka has heals thru class skills as well as damage shields.
No *** Sherlock, with 1 entire offensive Weapon Skill Tree to choose from...lol. And if a Mag build really needs independent self heals, it the Resto staff baby. The class heals are about as sexy as the stamina leech heals form everybloodywhere ones.
Currently I main a Stamina Necromancer, using Vigor by the way... but good try. And class skills, please you can't wave build diversion with one leans to use class skills, while we don't like them very much. That isn't balance any way you spin it.
Having so much offensive skill lines to choose from plus a Vigor is just too much. Again. Tie it to a bloody Weapon Skill Line, I suggest Bow, which is the Stamina Range Skill Tree. Still available to you and you get Ranged DPS at the same time...Oh that goes against build diversity? Well then, give Magicka the same dang options.
Have you also forgotten each destro staff gives different bonuses based on staff choice essentially bringing magicka to 4 weapon skill lines.
Fire increases st damage
Lightning increase aoe damage
Frost the sword and board equivalent for magicka
Sure all skills for these lines are the same but each staff gives something different from the passives and to each skill individually1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Few important details.
Resolving vigor did not get buffed 85%, base vigor did. Resolving does not heal the caster 30% more like it does on live because it only affects the caster. On *my* build it's a rough 40% buff (maybe a shade over).
Echoing vigor got nerfed and buffed. It got nerfed in its healing value (ticks half as often, and only 85% increase) and got buffed in utility (cast half as often for less stamina).
Vigor as a skill got nerfed for organized small groups, as you can no longer stack three vigor types like you can on live. At best, you can stack two and they won't tick every second.
I'mnot here to discuss op or not, just clearing a lot of the myths and rumors from people who haven't tested or have an agenda.
Have a wonderful day!5 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
Oh and did you see the Shield nerfs? Congratulation on ignoring that fact...
I will agree with you on 1 point stamina has four weapon skill lines to choose from.
Now stamina roll dodging sprinting and blocking eats our resource for dealing damage. Magicka on a stam is for utility skills. Magicka has access to damage shields and class heals.
@Idinuse
Your argument is stam has 4 weapon skill lines while magicka only has 2 options correct? What class do you main?
I ask because here is a proposal question based on what ever class you main pick the skill that applies.
Sorc crystal frag now costs stamina and deals physical damage chance to proc a heal on the insta cast
Dk flame lash now costs stamina and deals poison damage with the same additional effect
Templar radiant oppression now costs stamina and deals physical damage and now uses stamina for this morph effect
Warden either morph of swarm uses same effect and costs stamina and changes the damage type to disease
Necromancer avid boneyard now costs stamina with the same effect and dealing disease damage now
We will trade a major magicka skill from each class for an entire weapon skill line for magicka with my proposals. I specifically tried to name skills that are or were used by each class for this question.
I ask this because people don’t seem to understand that a magicka character usually uses more class skills than their stamina counter parts including a class heal. Also sure it’s easy to get but stamina has to do pvp to get a decent heal skill magicka has heals thru class skills as well as damage shields.
No *** Sherlock, with 1 entire offensive Weapon Skill Tree to choose from...lol. And if a Mag build really needs independent self heals, it the Resto staff baby. The class heals are about as sexy as the stamina leech heals form everybloodywhere ones.
Currently I main a Stamina Necromancer, using Vigor by the way... but good try. And class skills, please you can't wave build diversion with one leans to use class skills, while we don't like them very much. That isn't balance any way you spin it.
Having so much offensive skill lines to choose from plus a Vigor is just too much. Again. Tie it to a bloody Weapon Skill Line, I suggest Bow, which is the Stamina Range Skill Tree. Still available to you and you get Ranged DPS at the same time...Oh that goes against build diversity? Well then, give Magicka the same dang options.
Have you also forgotten each destro staff gives different bonuses based on staff choice essentially bringing magicka to 4 weapon skill lines.
Fire increases st damage
Lightning increase aoe damage
Frost the sword and board equivalent for magicka
Sure all skills for these lines are the same but each staff gives something different from the passives and to each skill individually
LOLOL. Have you forgotten that each weapon class (sword, axe, mace, dagger, battle axe, great sword, hammer) does the same for Stamina Weapons? 200+ WD from just using 2 swords? Bleeds? Just look at the passives. And that little difference in the 1 Destro Line does not make up a Weapons Skill Tree, no.Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 2:24PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. As for Vigor, Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magaicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
So you're complaining that you have the luxury of dipping into both stat pools and not spend your precious main stat when you need to block or roll (while in stamina's case, -everything- eats into block/dodge/sprint pool, and each dodge means there's fewer resources for offense). Mmkay. And yup, four skill trees and still only one weapon to equip on one bar and only ten skill slots like with everyone, so not buying it. And much does that purge do on stamina character if dots are easy to reapply in next several GCDs while typically there's enough magicka for one-two casts, and stamina takes ~20 seconds to gain enough magicka for the next.
Classes have 2-5 stamina morphs out of 45 total skills in class trees, and yet magicka has the nerve to complain about availability of weapon lines. ^^3 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. As for Vigor, Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magaicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
So you're complaining that you have the luxury of dipping into both stat pools and not spend your precious main stat when you need to block or roll (while in stamina's case, -everything- eats into block/dodge/sprint pool, and each dodge means there's fewer resources for offense). Mmkay. And yup, four skill trees and still only one weapon to equip on one bar and only ten skill slots like with everyone, so not buying it. And much does that purge do on stamina character if dots are easy to reapply in next several GCDs while typically there's enough magicka for one-two casts, and stamina takes ~20 seconds to gain enough magicka for the next.
Classes have 2-5 stamina morphs out of 45 total skills in class trees, and yet magicka has the nerve to complain about availability of weapon lines. ^^
With the far too cheap costs of Stamina skills, yes I am. And I've been propagating for Stamina morphs all the time. Never have I ever pointed to the 4 stamina weapon trees, each with 3 branches and said no Stamina Morphs for you, you have all stamina skills in those trees. Pathetic.
Tell you what. Look up the cost of Purge and you tell me how spammable it is on a normal not "Purge Monkey" build. Magicka builds are in fact in the same spot. Especially with all poison skills from everywhere, all bloody CCs and debufs from almost every darn stamina skill, plus DoTs.Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 2:30PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Joosef_Kivikilpi✭✭✭✭Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Thank you for the test, now we have numerical values with the proof video
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
You welcome.
Here is the last test I've made and I'll stop here :
It's not a "valide" build since I build especialy to push this tooltips to the limite, and here is the value you can achieve, I don't think we can go higher in self buff + pot :
Stat + Major mending up :
Trés bien! But that's still only 25% health of the "skilled" stamina "builds" I meet in Cyro.
So StaM DK healer with only vigor next patch. Got it lolz0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. As for Vigor, Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magaicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
So you're complaining that you have the luxury of dipping into both stat pools and not spend your precious main stat when you need to block or roll (while in stamina's case, -everything- eats into block/dodge/sprint pool, and each dodge means there's fewer resources for offense). Mmkay. And yup, four skill trees and still only one weapon to equip on one bar and only ten skill slots like with everyone, so not buying it. And much does that purge do on stamina character if dots are easy to reapply in next several GCDs while typically there's enough magicka for one-two casts, and stamina takes ~20 seconds to gain enough magicka for the next.
Classes have 2-5 stamina morphs out of 45 total skills in class trees, and yet magicka has the nerve to complain about availability of weapon lines. ^^
With the far too cheap costs of Stamina skills, yes I am.
Mmhm, well then let's remove Minor Magickasteal from the game. Will keep the complaints honest if nothing else.1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Thank you for the test, now we have numerical values with the proof video
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
You welcome.
Here is the last test I've made and I'll stop here :
It's not a "valide" build since I build especialy to push this tooltips to the limite, and here is the value you can achieve, I don't think we can go higher in self buff + pot :
Stat + Major mending up :
Trés bien! But that's still only 25% health of the "skilled" stamina "builds" I meet in Cyro.
So StaM DK healer with only vigor next patch. Got it lolz
Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh look the DK wiht major mending on demand is gonna show us how OP vigor is lol. *** outta here man some classes need this. Take major mending away from DKs maybe.
Heres an idea take CP outta PvP and major mending away from DKs and were goood to go.Edited by Vapirko on July 28, 2019 2:41PM1 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yea it’s totally fine guys. No problems here... hots that tick for what some burst heals do. Totally okay3 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »It is not OP. Not at all. Stop the nerf threads.
Stop the nerf threads as long as it's about Stamina?
If you want magicka to be good, suggest buffs for magicka. Stop trying to get stamina nerfed. Sick of the "my playstyle was nerfed, they should nerf your's too!" whiners who throw a temper tantrum every *** update, putting us back into the *** spot of playing darts with the reward being what's gonna get gutted next. You want the game to be enjoyable? Stop asking for nerfs.
And that pretty much confirms it. After the Templar, Sorc and all about mag nerfs hysteria for months, ney years, you people have the nerve.
I may have my own balance grievances, but I don't go looking to gut an entire half of the game's specs because my playstyle, class or spec got nerfed. Don't be so petty as to make everybody's experiences as *** as your own, suggest buffs for your own playstyle. The game's had enough nerfs.
Oh, and that's coming from someone who predominantly plays magicka DK and Sorc in PVP. So yeah, before you come back insinuating I'm biased towards stamina, no, I'm not. I just don't throw hissy fits on the forums demand everybody be nerfed into oblivion because I got nerfed.1 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »It is not OP. Not at all. Stop the nerf threads.
Stop the nerf threads as long as it's about Stamina?
If you want magicka to be good, suggest buffs for magicka. Stop trying to get stamina nerfed. Sick of the "my playstyle was nerfed, they should nerf your's too!" whiners who throw a temper tantrum every *** update, putting us back into the *** spot of playing darts with the reward being what's gonna get gutted next. You want the game to be enjoyable? Stop asking for nerfs.
And that pretty much confirms it. After the Templar, Sorc and all about mag nerfs hysteria for months, ney years, you people have the nerve.
I may have my own balance grievances, but I don't go looking to gut an entire half of the game's specs because my playstyle, class or spec got nerfed. Don't be so petty as to make everybody's experiences as *** as your own, suggest buffs for your own playstyle. The game's had enough nerfs.
Oh, and that's coming from someone who predominantly plays magicka DK and Sorc in PVP. So yeah, before you come back insinuating I'm biased towards stamina, no, I'm not. I just don't throw hissy fits on the forums demand everybody be nerfed into oblivion because I got nerfed.
Neither do I. The hundreds of whiners over mag-anything have though. And when it creates a glaring imbalance, especially with a stamina buff, the nerfing needs to stop? Just lol.Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1