Vigor is too OP

FrankonPC · July 2019

Looks like another one of my videos was posted, heh.

They clearly buffed vigor. I don't think it's op because of the huge increase in dot damage and reduction in aoe heals from other skills. Next patch is going to be more individual based healing.

I just wanted to post what a vigor tooltip looks like on a stam dk currently in pvp for those without the PTS. That's it

Clearly zenimax has a reason behind buffing mutagen and vigor so much. I'm fine with the changes.

ProzTh3Almighty · July 2019

Its always the same thing here in Ye Olde Forums... your playstyle is op! Stamina is better! Magicka is better! Your class is op! No yours is! .....The only thing that forces a meta onto you is score runs an trial guilds. Every other spec is viable but they want that juicy score run. If you do too then you need to sacrifice your play-style an get with the program otherwise play how you want an find a different guild/group to do content with. Noone needs the extra 10k dps between top end and low end specs except score run guilds. If you wanna be invited to that party then take what you get, nuff said...or you could have fun an play how you want

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.

I think Vigor should stay as it was, a great heal. And give every mag class a similar heal. Many mag classes, same as stamina, dont have reliable, godo heals.

No. Not till stam gets a real shield. Gg

Sure, i would switch my shields to have Vigor. Oh! and dodge/block going on magicka without needing any weapon. And the resistances of medium in light. And the extra 15% discount on every skill. And many weapon skill lines with as great skills as the stamina ones. And... list go on...

ProzTh3Almighty · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.

I think Vigor should stay as it was, a great heal. And give every mag class a similar heal. Many mag classes, same as stamina, dont have reliable, godo heals.

No. Not till stam gets a real shield. Gg

Sure, i would switch my shields to have Vigor. Oh! and dodge/block going on magicka without needing any weapon. And the resistances of medium in light. And the extra 15% discount on every skill. And many weapon skill lines with as great skills as the stamina ones. And... list go on...

Just play stam then

Idinuse · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.

I think Vigor should stay as it was, a great heal. And give every mag class a similar heal. Many mag classes, same as stamina, dont have reliable, godo heals.

No. Not till stam gets a real shield. Gg

Sure, i would switch my shields to have Vigor. Oh! and dodge/block going on magicka without needing any weapon. And the resistances of medium in light. And the extra 15% discount on every skill. And many weapon skill lines with as great skills as the stamina ones. And... list go on...

Yes. It's obvious that the Weapon Lines imbalances between Stamina and Magicka was based on the future existence of Spell Crafting. This has (obviously) turned into a meme, and Magicka is left with 1 whooping Offensive Weapon Line. No particular close combat skills from weapons, and a Restoration Staff Skill line. That's it. As long as we don't have spell crafting the game should bloody balance around that fact.

usmguy1234 · July 2019

Sandman929 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Have you bothered to look at what restro skills can do while you're crying about vigor?

https://youtu.be/KZ4iSpvB254

https://youtu.be/nZLyjFu9Xtk

Not really an apples to apples comparison since Rapid Regen and Healing Ward are tied to a weapon that must be used and there's no guarantee that the 2 resto skills will hit the caster, but it seems like Vigor and Healing Ward and Regeneration are incredibly strong.
Might be that we need those incredibly strong heals considering the changes to AoE healing, though.

Shoot I'd take skills that healed that strong on a weapon line for stamina....if they existed.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Have you bothered to look at what restro skills can do while you're crying about vigor?

https://youtu.be/KZ4iSpvB254

https://youtu.be/nZLyjFu9Xtk

Not really an apples to apples comparison since Rapid Regen and Healing Ward are tied to a weapon that must be used and there's no guarantee that the 2 resto skills will hit the caster, but it seems like Vigor and Healing Ward and Regeneration are incredibly strong.
Might be that we need those incredibly strong heals considering the changes to AoE healing, though.

Shoot I'd take skills that healed that strong on a weapon line for stamina....if they existed.

Ågreee

Wuuffyy · July 2019

I would rather have all my class skills be useful than 80% of my skills coming from weapon lines.

Girl_Number8 · July 2019

Delparis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

So because actually reading Notes or Testing isnt very popular here and well, knowing how ability works or performs neither, more so when one wants to complain about it.

Live Vigor:
Resolving - heal people around you for 1X over 5s. Heal yourself for ~30% more (1.3X)
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1X over 5s

PTS Vigor:
Resolving - heal just yourself for 1.85X (~42% more than live) over 5s
Echoing - heal yourself and people around for 1.85X over 10s (total healing done in one cast 85% better than live, HPS 8% worse than Live)

Just so I dont have to read all those people with very clear agenda spewing how its double better and so on.

am I supposed to believe your numbers?

sorry i only believe what i see (video as a proof)

Go on the pts and test it in Cp PvP or Non Cp....I am sure it will save you through everything, lol.

Or don't you have any stam characters?

Girl_Number8 · July 2019

Delparis wrote: »

Vigor is OP in pvp

Nerf it!!

Did you honestly test it yourself on the pts without using your friends to fake results in PvP....?

Moloch1514 · July 2019

OP is too OP.

Delparis · July 2019

Just nerf it like healing ward
vigor is too OP

Aznarb · July 2019

Vigor's rework to be a single target Heal over Time hasn't hit the mark we wanted, and currently enables too much healing with the Echoing Vigor morph. We'll be taking a close look at the core identity of the skill and potentially making adjustment

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/487154/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-3#latest"

Vortigaunt · July 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Have you bothered to look at what restro skills can do while you're crying about vigor?

https://youtu.be/KZ4iSpvB254

https://youtu.be/nZLyjFu9Xtk

Uhm

Heal ward got nerfed like 5 hours ago. What was the rally burst heal equivalent now again?

usmguy1234 · July 2019

Vortigaunt wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Have you bothered to look at what restro skills can do while you're crying about vigor?

https://youtu.be/KZ4iSpvB254

https://youtu.be/nZLyjFu9Xtk

Uhm

Heal ward got nerfed like 5 hours ago. What was the rally burst heal equivalent now again?

Uhm

And I posted that before that patch notes came out. Good change by zos. Slow clap.

Emma_Overload · July 2019

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

DocFrost72 · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

@Emma_Overload

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

I would agree that vigor is OP but there are currently NO other options for stam builds to self heal unless you want to share class heals which I know most of you magicka players would have a problem with.

I think Vigor should stay as it was, a great heal. And give every mag class a similar heal. Many mag classes, same as stamina, dont have reliable, godo heals.

No. Not till stam gets a real shield. Gg

Sure, i would switch my shields to have Vigor. Oh! and dodge/block going on magicka without needing any weapon. And the resistances of medium in light. And the extra 15% discount on every skill. And many weapon skill lines with as great skills as the stamina ones. And... list go on...

Just play stam then

I play both. And note that stamina is on a better position in many aspects.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

No. It doesnt. Healing ward gets a massive shield plus a heal. And an accompanying staff that grants major vitality on cast for 3 secs. When my vigor does all that. Sure. Yours was healing 13k a sec in pvp.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

No. It doesnt. Healing ward gets a massive shield plus a heal. And an accompanying staff that grants major vitality on cast for 3 secs. When my vigor does all that. Sure. Yours was healing 13k a sec in pvp.

Also can be used on another person.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

No. It doesnt. Healing ward gets a massive shield plus a heal. And an accompanying staff that grants major vitality on cast for 3 secs. When my vigor does all that. Sure. Yours was healing 13k a sec in pvp.

I agree, Vigor deserves it. And to be in sword and board skill line.

Wuuffyy · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

No. It doesnt. Healing ward gets a massive shield plus a heal. And an accompanying staff that grants major vitality on cast for 3 secs. When my vigor does all that. Sure. Yours was healing 13k a sec in pvp.

I agree, Vigor deserves it. And to be in sword and board skill line.

No it doesnt need to be in any line. You deserve to hit like a wet noodle... oh wait

Delparis · July 2019

just nerf vigor or put it on snb tree like healing ward with resto staff

Insco851 · July 2019

A 13k vigor tool tip on live rn? Oof

Aznarb · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Vigor deserves 67% nerf like Healing Ward got.

Don't @ me!

No. It doesnt. Healing ward gets a massive shield plus a heal. And an accompanying staff that grants major vitality on cast for 3 secs. When my vigor does all that. Sure. Yours was healing 13k a sec in pvp.

Healing ward :
- Need specific weapon : huge downside for Tank or DPS
- Need to have no one around since it heal the lowest ally around and not just you
- Cost more than vigor

Vigor :
- No specific weapon : no downside
- Both morph will ALWAYS heal you when needed
- Very cheap.

Humm..
Almost balance.
Both heal for a lot, but that all, Vigor don't have any requirement and it's cheap af.
Also, vitality is tied to weapon, so nothing to do here, we speak about skill, not weapon passif.
If you want to put weapon passive in this discussion, then don't forget to mention the loss of an more efficient weapon.

Vigor heal to much, even Dev stat it in the patch, it's probably gonna be nerf next week, so I'm not worried.
Ward got his deserved nerf and it's ok and it SHOULD still heal more than vigor when we look at all the downside it get. It just common sense..

Also I still don't understand why ppl put these 2 skill in the same bag.
One is a healer dedicated spell, the other is a free heal for every stam who want to take it.

Ppl on these forum sometime...

DocFrost72 · July 2019

Insco851 wrote: »

A 13k vigor tool tip on live rn? Oof

Wanna show me your pvp build with a higher tooltip? Please include list of buffs. I'd love to learn how a build that has to concern itself with surviability has a higher tooltip than a max stam/weapon damage focused pve build, it will improve my ability to solo and make my next maelstrom run even smoother.

Delparis · July 2019

If Zenimax dev team don't nerf vigor that only means that they don't care about balancing and they only care about their stamblades

Tirps · July 2019

Aznarb wrote: »

Healing ward :
- Need specific weapon : huge downside for Tank or DPS
- Need to have no one around since it heal the lowest ally around and not just you
- Cost more than vigor

Vigor :
- No specific weapon : no downside
- Both morph will ALWAYS heal you when needed
- Very cheap.

Also ward can be removed (destroyed) from player in which case it doesn't heal at all... So the ward has rather good chance to heal for less than vigor if you don't protect it.

Rikumaru · July 2019

You can nerf vigor when you nerf rapid regen. Both are equally as strong. And don't give me the dumb reasoning that "Hur dur i need restro staff hur dur" when every stamina player in the universe needs to slot 2h. Especially with new 2h ulti and new executioner. Oh, I can already see people who will say "but 2h has a better skill line, uhhhhh it has an execute, uhhhhhhhh it has strong offensive ultimate" yeah, what about restro giving the best restoring heavy attacks in the game (which also gives major mending), healing ward and a pretty damn good defensive ulti?

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

Rikumaru wrote: »

You can nerf vigor when you nerf rapid regen. Both are equally as strong. And don't give me the dumb reasoning that "Hur dur i need restro staff hur dur" when every stamina player in the universe needs to slot 2h. Especially with new 2h ulti and new executioner. Oh, I can already see people who will say "but 2h has a better skill line, uhhhhh it has an execute, uhhhhhhhh it has strong offensive ultimate" yeah, what about restro giving the best restoring heavy attacks in the game (which also gives major mending), healing ward and a pretty damn good defensive ulti?

If you really compares resto to 2H for a DD role backbar, then we have few to talk about.

In PvE in anyways you will slot bow as backbar. So a fair DW/bow DD will get plenty of DPS and still be able to slot a great selfheal (and range DPS for those who talk about range). A mag character slotting Resto will have just one less bar for DPSing. And considering the new skills, every skill slot will be really, really needed.

There is already enough gap between stam and mag toons to widen it up using a Resto backbar...