Vigor is too OP
Delparis
✭✭✭✭✭
https://youtu.be/cv16NyBcu541 tick of vigor heal equal 50% of HTD full heal
That's OP for stam builds
12
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Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ofc it's OP.
It heal already for a lot and they buff it by 85%, like, wth ?[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]17 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭No its not. CP PVP is just a hard carry. You hit like 5k vigor in cp and 2k in no cp.
Its all just a matter of finally balancing CP PVP. Try that build in non CP and youll see how OP vigor really is.class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling22 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭OlumoGarbag wrote: »No its not. CP PVP is just a hard carry. You hit like 5k vigor in cp and 2k in no cp.
Its all just a matter of finally balancing CP PVP. Try that build in non CP and youll see how OP vigor really is.
Their is not only pvp in the game you know ?
Also the game is not balanced around no CP...
The other morph is as much powerful and stack with other player. I can easily reach the same value on a DPS w/o major mending.
And this heal have NO downside since it's not link to weapon and it's cheap af.
Love double-standart of pvp guy.Edited by Aznarb on July 28, 2019 11:00AM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]7 -
umagon✭✭✭✭✭This is just my observation. I think with the changes healing has gotten this update cycle and with the fact the devs have removed many sources of major defile; that the team may have found a resolution to damage/healing output scaling at the same rate. And these changes are a precursor to that new system where players would have to sacrifice damage output and/or damage mitigation to increase healing output. Before they could do something like that the devs would have to create mathematical standard baselines in order to have a starting point to work from. So, healing might be a bit over board for a short time until that system is completed.
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Healing ward and rapid regen are op as well next patch and also they nerfed the rally heal so Stam need some kind of decent heal option.13 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yea, vigor is powerful. Everyone’s focused on the wrong morph though.
The other morph is the same HPS as live with double the duration. Ticks are just as strong, but every 2 seconds. It makes it a lot easier for say 4 stam to each use echoing for 2x the self healing of each using the self only morph. It’ll also be easier to maintain because it’s one ability every 10 seconds.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten6 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, for the proud "no-cp" guy, I've test it on PTS with no CP in cyro, took me 5 min, same build as OP :
Tell me how weak it is once again plz..
(y it's not english but the value is the same so who care :>)
@Vlad9425 :
Healing ward is OP right now on PTS, still don't know why they touch it when it work fine on live..
It's not because something is OP than other need the same, that not how balance work.
When something is OP, nerf it.
Also healer have loose so much power heal and we got nothing to compensate.
Their is no reason to buff vigor considering how well it perform on live already.
That said, it's just my opinion.Edited by Aznarb on July 28, 2019 6:26PM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]7 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, for the proud "no-cp" guy, I've test it on PTS, took me 5 min, same build as OP :
Tell me how weak it is once again plz..
(y it's not english but the value is the same so who care :>)
@Vlad9425 :
Healing ward is OP right now on PTS, still don't know why they touch it when it work fine on live..
It's not because something is OP than other need the same, that not how balance work.
When something is OP, nerf it.
Also healer have love so much power heal and we got nothing to compensate.
Their is no reason to buff vigor considering how well it perform on live already.
That said, it's just my opinion.
good luck running your exact cp build in non cp, smartbrain. You have to adjust your builds alot more for non-cp since sustain is utter ***. so instead of 40k stam and 5k wd you end up with 28k stam and 3k Wd. Which loweres your tooltip already by half. Then you dont get any cp passive healing from any % multipliers. So if your not a DK with maj mending and a *** ton of % multipliers your vigor will not exceed 2k.class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling10 -
OlumoGarbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just try out solo open world non cp and tell me how vigor doesent need a buff, compared to live.class representative for the working class, non-cp, bwb and Trolling5 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭Sorry to say, but vigor is even in pve way to strong as it is right now. Especially in Trials used by a DD.
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Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OlumoGarbag wrote: »No its not. CP PVP is just a hard carry. You hit like 5k vigor in cp and 2k in no cp.
Its all just a matter of finally balancing CP PVP. Try that build in non CP and youll see how OP vigor really is.
Vigor should be tied to a Weapon Skill Line Tree like Bow (ranged) just like magicka is tied to using a Resto.
Alternatively make a magicka morph of Vigor. Magicka range dmg has been so nerfed for long now, while stamina dmg has been buffed, and CCs too, that the range advantage of magicka is just academic. It has little to no value in any PvP situations that a Bow doesn't. At the same time magicka's defensive mechanics have been diluted and nerfed as well.
Magicka has 1 weapon tree and 1 restoration tree to choose from entirely. Stamina has 4 weapon trees to choose from, yet has one of the best heals in the game available with any combination of those 4 Stamina Weapon Trees. Balance?Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 12:35PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?14 -
Vortigaunt✭✭✭OlumoGarbag wrote: »So, for the proud "no-cp" guy, I've test it on PTS, took me 5 min, same build as OP :
Tell me how weak it is once again plz..
(y it's not english but the value is the same so who care :>)
@Vlad9425 :
Healing ward is OP right now on PTS, still don't know why they touch it when it work fine on live..
It's not because something is OP than other need the same, that not how balance work.
When something is OP, nerf it.
Also healer have love so much power heal and we got nothing to compensate.
Their is no reason to buff vigor considering how well it perform on live already.
That said, it's just my opinion.
good luck running your exact cp build in non cp, smartbrain. You have to adjust your builds alot more for non-cp since sustain is utter ***. so instead of 40k stam and 5k wd you end up with 28k stam and 3k Wd. Which loweres your tooltip already by half. Then you dont get any cp passive healing from any % multipliers. So if your not a DK with maj mending and a *** ton of % multipliers your vigor will not exceed 2k.
Stop with the no cp argument. This game is balanced around CP and therefore CP is the prism you look through when you balance ***. No cp just adapts after each patch.3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^2 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Edited by Aznarb on July 28, 2019 12:50PM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]8 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? And Bow is bloody, if not OP range, damn close. LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 12:45PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?10 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^4 -
Delparis✭✭✭✭✭Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Thank you for the test, now we have numerical values with the proof video
@ZOS_BrianWheeler2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »Sure, folks. Soon as stamina gets range, shields, stamina purge, things like, say, pets to hide behind, all the jazz - be my guest, nerf to your heart's content. ^^
You're joking right? Or are you seriously trying to suggest Stamina/MA/HA have nothing defensive, including S&B and heals in their tool kit to choose from at all? LOL. SMH. Or is your idea that you shouldn't have to think about that part at all, you should just spec in boom insta kills, and if your targets survive, they need be nerfed. ^^
Anything more... specific? Like, how I'll get dots purged as stamina (in the upcoming dot meta)? Also, S&B got nerfed, congratulations on ignoring that fact. ^^ 2H also lost its HoT (that used to proc Troll King), and generally magicka will have way easier time keeping pressure this upcoming patch with a couple more strong, easy to use dots available to everyone - while heavy got nerfed with S&B nerfs, 7th, Fury, even VH. So nope. ^^
A magicka dump in purge is about the smart thing to do. It's not like it eats up your block/dodge/sprint pool. Magicka's stamina "dump" is already the blocking and roll dodging, ty.
So S&B got nerfed so did the 2 weapon options for magicka. You have 4 bloody skill trees to choose from ffs, magicka has 1 offensive and 1 defensive. And the DoTs meta is going to be felt by everyone, so yeah?
Oh and did you see the Shield nerfs? Congratulations on ignoring that fact...Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 1:33PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?2 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭You can't just look at tooltips or individual ticks of vigor to see if it is op, you have to look at your healing overall in solo situations and group situations.
Solo- yeah of course the new vigor will be stronger than the previous one, it was buffed by 85% ...but lost aoe. If you choose to run the new aoe version you are very susceptible to burst and you essentially half your hps by taking this morph.
Group- you will see a big loss in hps, even greater if you have a large group. Not to mention some people will take the solo morph of vigor and won't want to pay to change it each time they enter a group.
essentially the vigor change buffed solo gameplay while hard nerfed group heals. Please don't just compare tool tips and assume it is op that isn't how the game works, mathematically you lose out in every scenario other than dueling or true 1vX5 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can't just look at tooltips or individual ticks of vigor to see if it is op, you have to look at your healing overall in solo situations and group situations.
Solo- yeah of course the new vigor will be stronger than the previous one, it was buffed by 85% ...but lost aoe. If you choose to run the new aoe version you are very susceptible to burst and you essentially half your hps by taking this morph.
Group- you will see a big loss in hps, even greater if you have a large group. Not to mention some people will take the solo morph of vigor and won't want to pay to change it each time they enter a group.
essentially the vigor change buffed solo gameplay while hard nerfed group heals. Please don't just compare tool tips and assume it is op that isn't how the game works, mathematically you lose out in every scenario other than dueling or true 1vX
Really? A healer is too much for a group to use? That groups have been running all Stamina with no healer is broken enough for that change.Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Thank you for the test, now we have numerical values with the proof video
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
You welcome.
Here is the last test I've made and I'll stop here :
It's not a "valide" build since I build especialy to push this tooltips to the limite, and here is the value you can achieve, I don't think we can go higher in self buff + pot :
Stat + Major mending up + Ritual mundus + 1pc : troll king + 1pc Rkugamz (2x 4% heal done) + draugr set + hunding + bow in powered
Edited by Aznarb on July 28, 2019 1:27PM[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Thank you for the test, now we have numerical values with the proof video
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
You welcome.
Here is the last test I've made and I'll stop here :
It's not a "valide" build since I build especialy to push this tooltips to the limite, and here is the value you can achieve, I don't think we can go higher in self buff + pot :
Stat + Major mending up :
Trés bien! But that's still only 25% health of the "skilled" stamina "builds" I meet in Cyro.
Edited by Idinuse on July 28, 2019 1:30PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vigor in self buff alcast pve DPS build :
Also, their is NO cp put in blessing + if you take the selfish morph you get these heal each 0.5sec.
Also, look at the cost, 1950 stam only ? Really ?
Again sorry for the french tooltip, but you got it I think.
Also I'm just gonna ignore the "no-cp guy", no time to wast speaking to him.
Thank you for the test, now we have numerical values with the proof video
ZOS_BrianWheeler
I am confused. First OP claims vigor is too OP then he says we have proof when the proof shows its not OP.
Not like anything OP claims can be taken seriously, anywhere
Edited by SodanTok on July 28, 2019 1:28PM4 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Idinuse If you compare live to pts group heals solely based on vigor, the live hps will be greater. The state of pve heals being gutted is another issue, that *** is all over the place.
Hm, insightful!Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Group- you will see a big loss in hps, even greater if you have a large group. Not to mention some people will take the solo morph of vigor and won't want to pay to change it each time they enter a group.
essentially the vigor change buffed solo gameplay while hard nerfed group heals. Please don't just compare tool tips and assume it is op that isn't how the game works, mathematically you lose out in every scenario other than dueling or true 1vX
This is wrong, the stamina group heal was buffed as well. It’s healing was increased and duration doubled, the effect is you get the same amount of HPS over 10 seconds now instead of 5 seconds.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭say we have 10 people
live: 10 players each with a 10k heal over 5 seconds = 20k hps
pts: 10 players each with a 18.5k heal over 10 seconds = 18.5k hps <--- wow group aoe is 7.5% less than live
live 24 players = 48k hps
pts 24 players = 44.4k hps2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »It is not OP. Not at all. Stop the nerf threads.
Stop the nerf threads as long as it's about Stamina?Sed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?8 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭...on the other hand, if they didnt buff vigor, every stambuild would die to entropy and soultrap ez af.
PC EU
PvP only3