maxjapank wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

And I guess you don't play medium armor. Medium armor is more aquishy than a light armor due to the fact that light armor has ahields to use. Only means for medium armor to survive is dodge roll and that is almost never works due to ping issues and speed for los. You apply 100% snare on medium armor, you kill them like flies, and they are already too much snare option in this game.

If snare is a defensive mean, then japs and vampire bane should not snare, since they are clearly offensive skills. Also, dks and templars have lots of healing power and high resistance biult in thier classes, so relying on snare does not seem like the only "defensive" option they have. On live stam sorcs is literally the slowest class in BG, due to how much snares are used, were stam sorc suposed to shine for their speed.

I hear a lot of excuses. And assumptions that all light armor wearers use shields. Point is....7 secs is a really long time. So why not 5? 5 secs is also a long time and fair I think. But I'm guessing that 7 or 5 is not gonna make much difference for you.

By that logic you are assuming all medium armour will use shuffle?

5s? Whats the point in 5s whenn default immunity skills like FM is 4?

Mobility is mean't to be mediums advantage, you seem really against that,

Then again you are a magplar main you guys always hate literally everything that doesnt benefit you.

Are you really mad that people may not be perma snared by templars stupid cleanse aoe 24/7?

maxjapank wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

And I guess you don't play medium armor. Medium armor is more aquishy than a light armor due to the fact that light armor has ahields to use. Only means for medium armor to survive is dodge roll and that is almost never works due to ping issues and speed for los. You apply 100% snare on medium armor, you kill them like flies, and they are already too much snare option in this game.

If snare is a defensive mean, then japs and vampire bane should not snare, since they are clearly offensive skills. Also, dks and templars have lots of healing power and high resistance biult in thier classes, so relying on snare does not seem like the only "defensive" option they have. On live stam sorcs is literally the slowest class in BG, due to how much snares are used, were stam sorc suposed to shine for their speed.

I hear a lot of excuses. And assumptions that all light armor wearers use shields. Point is....7 secs is a really long time. So why not 5? 5 secs is also a long time and fair I think. But I'm guessing that 7 or 5 is not gonna make much difference for you.

By that logic you are assuming all medium armour will use shuffle?

5s? Whats the point in 5s whenn default immunity skills like FM is 4?

Mobility is mean't to be mediums advantage, you seem really against that,

Then again you are a magplar main you guys always hate literally everything that doesnt benefit you.

Are you really mad that people may not be perma snared by templars stupid cleanse aoe 24/7?

Lol. Whine much? 5 secs is very fair. And be sure to read the thread rather than asking me to show you points brought up in threads you posted in but didn't bother reading.

Resorting to insults and repeating yourself instead of being constructive with your arguments, well done.

So 5s with what? 7 pieces? So what about 5 or 6 pieces (most competent players will go 6/1)? Does that make it 4s and 4.5s, next to no one uses shuffle currently, the changes are bringing it in line with abilities such as Forward Momentum which had 8s for years, but was nerfed due to mobility with major expedition (could have 100% uptime via hot pots) and swift (Provided unnamed major expedition just through 3 gold jewelry 100% of the time).

Speed is no longer easily achievable, so anything close to 8s is fine in terms of the games prior standards. 4s FM makes sense for an ability primarily used by Heavy Armor in the current games context, Heavy Armor should not have 8s access to snare/immobilization immunity (Nor should they have easy access to Major Evasion, but that's a separate argument). Shuffle has always been too expensive and not nearly rewarding enough in comparison to FM, this doesn't even fix it completely since FM has Major Evasion, Major Brutality and lower cost making Shuffle a pretty redundant choice in some builds.

The slight increased duration helps Medium Armor do what is does best which is staying mobile. It does not increase your speed, it keeps you moving the same speed which isn't that huge of a deal in the first place as many people would prefer snares/immobilization nerfed in to oblivion since most people do not enjoy moving at a snails pace.

maxjapank wrote: »

@Marshall1289 Stam players are not under performing now. They are very strong in pvp. And Shuffle doesn't only offer immunity to snares and immobilzations for 7 secs, it also got cheaper and gives a very powerful major evasion. Things that are not offered to magicka users at all. RAT is only 2 secs. It is very powerful now. I don't think making the snare less, from 7 secs to 5 secs is going to break anything. It's still more than double what magicka users get. But honestly, none of you seem interested in balance. Even others have commented on how most Medium users will use 6 m, 1 h thus only getting 6 secs. And even if you wear a 5m 1h 1l, you would only get 5 secs, but still get full benefits of undaunted. So just make it 5 secs total. No reason for a 7m armor wearer to get 7 secs. It's just too much.

Then what's the point to go 7 medium?nerf yourself even more?
If someone chose to lose stat for 2 extra sec of mobility is not going to change anything and maybe we get a bit more of variation instead of the usual 5/1/1 or 6/1.If anything every armor should have a reason to go 7 piece.

If you really think that 5 sec instead of 7 is not going to break anything i bet you can sleep at night knowing the few people in 7 medium get 2 extra sec of snare suppression.

maxjapank wrote: »

@Marshall1289 Stam players are not under performing now. They are very strong in pvp. And Shuffle doesn't only offer immunity to snares and immobilzations for 7 secs, it also got cheaper and gives a very powerful major evasion. Things that are not offered to magicka users at all. RAT is only 2 secs. It is very powerful now. I don't think making the snare less, from 7 secs to 5 secs is going to break anything. It's still more than double what magicka users get. But honestly, none of you seem interested in balance. Even others have commented on how most Medium users will use 6 m, 1 h thus only getting 6 secs. And even if you wear a 5m 1h 1l, you would only get 5 secs, but still get full benefits of undaunted. So just make it 5 secs total. No reason for a 7m armor wearer to get 7 secs. It's just too much.

But magicka users get shields. Almoat everyone will be running single target skills next patch with the new changes. So .ajor evasion is not that great. But comparing RAT to shuffle is like comparing bone shield to annulament shield. First one is only scale to 30% max hp and secend is 40-50%, why not make harness magicka/dampen magic scale to 30%? See the problem here? Also, lets not forget the fact that dmg shields are 6-7 secs, why not make them like shuffle currently, each piece of light armor increase shield durion for 0.5 secs to max of 3.5 secs on full light armor.

maxjapank wrote: »

@Marshall1289 Stam players are not under performing now. They are very strong in pvp. And Shuffle doesn't only offer immunity to snares and immobilzations for 7 secs, it also got cheaper and gives a very powerful major evasion. Things that are not offered to magicka users at all. RAT is only 2 secs. It is very powerful now. I don't think making the snare less, from 7 secs to 5 secs is going to break anything. It's still more than double what magicka users get. But honestly, none of you seem interested in balance. Even others have commented on how most Medium users will use 6 m, 1 h thus only getting 6 secs. And even if you wear a 5m 1h 1l, you would only get 5 secs, but still get full benefits of undaunted. So just make it 5 secs total. No reason for a 7m armor wearer to get 7 secs. It's just too much.

yep, i think the same. 5 seconds with 7 parts and ~3,5 for 5. It's enouch and not pverperforming at the same time. it cost less, it's a huge window, major evasion, no need it to be like at current pts

Delparis wrote: »

in a game where you can easly kill a player under 2 sec, 7 sec immunity is too much imo

Who dies in 2s? Potatoes?

The only way you should even be dying in 2s is if you are ult dumped, and 7s immunity won't help you there.

Uh

maxjapank wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

7 seconds total is a bit much. They should just make it 5 regardless of how many medium armor pieces you wear.

7 secs too much because dk and templar snares on demanding nnot too much. Both classes are packed with snares making everyine feel like walking when fighting them. Unless there is a cooldown on snare abilities/ passives, 7secs is not much. Everytime i play my stam sorcs I have minor expiditon and use potion for major expidtion, dk snares me and gets by simply running, they don't even have to spring or gap close. I use RAT, instant snare, FM take away my burst heal so i stay with rally, shuffle cirrently expensive for what it does.

Yeah, and Templars/ DKs lack mobility, too. We cannot disengage from a fight. There needs to be balance. And 7 secs is quite long. Not to mention medium armor gives extra speed.

Templars and DKs don't lack mobility if you snare everyone, then you are the fastest class alive. DL have major expedition on chains as well as from other sources like Chenneled acceleration/race against time. Templars can you chenneled acceleration/ race against time. Not enough? templar can aoe snare targets and walk away if the want. Gap closers and range stuns are on both classes, applying too much pressure, making running almost impossible to do. I literaly use snare immunity, dk/templar gap close or range snare dots taking, snare immunity over after 4 or 2 secsecs, now I'm snared again. Over and over and over.

You don't simply put snares/strong debuffs on spammables or cheap skills.

Both templar and dk classes have more than 6 skills in their toolkit that apply snares, how is that even fair?

Guess you don’t play a Templar. We have snares because we lack mobility. But snare immunity means that defense means zilch. Hey, I’m not asking for no immunity. Just saying that 7 secs is too long. It is.

Toppling Charge, RAT, just as fast as anyone else except sorc but we all have that problem.

Shuffle should be the best form of snare removal / mobility in the game period (outside of streak). Medium is all about mobility and it was absurd that forward momentum and RAT outperformed it.

People complaining about 7 medium builds are pretty funny though, they are giving up 4% max stats in order to get 2 seconds more snare immunity on their shuffle. Sounds like diverse build choice to me which is perfectly fine. Same zergling players always complain about anything mobility related every patch because they aren't able to run those players down with their large group.

https://eso-sets.com/set/barkskin
Barkskin
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Dungeon
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(5 items) Reduces the duration of immobilizations and snares applied to you by 50%. When an immobilization or snare is applied to you, heal for 2300 Health and restore 1000 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

it wasn't op, but now with shuffle's duration 5 seconds it becomes crap
it's one of the proofs that this change wasn't enouch discussed and tested before so huge incereasing duration for it.
My thoughts it should be 3,5-4 seconds with 5 medium pieces.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam please think on it's duration once again before current PTS going Live.

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/barkskin
Barkskin
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Dungeon
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(5 items) Reduces the duration of immobilizations and snares applied to you by 50%. When an immobilization or snare is applied to you, heal for 2300 Health and restore 1000 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

it wasn't op, but now with shuffle's duration 5 seconds it becomes crap
it's one of the proofs that this change wasn't enouch discussed and tested before so huge incereasing duration for it.
My thoughts it should be 3,5-4 seconds with 5 medium pieces.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam please think on it's duration once again before current PTS going Live.

Cherry picking a single set in combination with a single skill in order to prove that shuffle needs to get re-nerfed in order for that 1 set to be viable because it doesn’t function well when you use that 1 skill?

Someone is getting desperate.

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

Abhaya wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

https://eso-sets.com/set/barkskin
Barkskin
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Dungeon
Set bonus
(2 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(3 items) Adds 129 Stamina Recovery
(4 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(5 items) Reduces the duration of immobilizations and snares applied to you by 50%. When an immobilization or snare is applied to you, heal for 2300 Health and restore 1000 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

it wasn't op, but now with shuffle's duration 5 seconds it becomes crap
it's one of the proofs that this change wasn't enouch discussed and tested before so huge incereasing duration for it.
My thoughts it should be 3,5-4 seconds with 5 medium pieces.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam please think on it's duration once again before current PTS going Live.

Cherry picking a single set in combination with a single skill in order to prove that shuffle needs to get re-nerfed in order for that 1 set to be viable because it doesn’t function well when you use that 1 skill?

Someone is getting desperate.

Not just that, his example is a set that no one even uses (except for maybe a very limited amount of players) thinking he's making a valid point..

Actually i've wrote that it's not op.
And not bad also, because if to look at it as thing for sustain 1000 stamina every 5 seconds = 400 stamina recovery. And 920 health recovery as a bonus...I like it in builds which require much sprinting or blocking in non-cp envinronment.
But, it's not about set advertising or bashing.

It's cooldown (it's medium set..) in a pair with smallest possible for medium in next patch 5 seconds duration immunity (it doesn't proc while immunity active) shows an underthinking when Devs decided to make new duration of Shuffle...
They didn't done global review before changes, that's what I'm trying to say.

ArenGesus wrote: »

On live I run 5 impen medium and 2 infused heavy, along with both rally and shuffle. It works fine* for small group play (but not so much solo). I see no reason to switch to 7 medium for this change (unless I can get my crit crazy high, but doubt it will math out), so will get max 5 seconds of immunity out of it.

But I probably won't use it at all, honestly. With the rally hot going away, I can switch to FM and get 4 seconds of immunity plus free up a skill because the shuffle evasion and expedition really won't be worth it to me - given that AOE damage is getting nerfed so much and I have bow fully leveled for expedition on roll.

In my opinion, this is still not going to be a draw for people to go medium over heavy. I only do it because I'm happy with my build as is and should continue to be after the patch. Even if more people do go medium, I don't see this being the meta op skill that is run on every build. I'm sure you'll see it on a lot of bow/dw builds, because it fills a legit hole that some of those builds can't get around otherwise - but I see few reasons to use it if you have access to FM. Shuffle may be a bit cheaper, but still - meh.

*when I say "fine", I mean it was the last time I used it, which was pre-elsweyr. I can barely play at all right now and haven't been able to pvp due to lag/performance. My hope is the next patch will make things bearable again and if so, I'll run whatever with few complaints. If not, the whole debate is academic at best.

Yep, but having no rally even with it's nerfed version works good only for few classes.
Vigor become extremly op so each stam class will be forced to rely at it at a first place.
But... At another corner of the field i'd personally prefer to use new Forward momentum also...
In a pair with a new dual wields quick cloak.
Partially because really don't like it's visual effect.
And will die under high pressure as a payment.
I think Shuffle need reduce it's duration to 4-3,5 seconds when 5 medium equipped. 5 is too long.

Because it isn't.