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With new Trials and Dungeons are the fight Mechanics getting stale?
IronWooshu
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General consensus? Is the boss fights in ESO getting old, it seems like with new trials the mechanics are just mechanics from other bosses combined. Trials are being beat in a few hours on the PTS when they come out because all people have to do is figure out what fight mechanic the new boss is using and compare it to a boss of old.
Do you think they are out of ideas or can they add new mechanics?
Edited by IronWooshu on July 18, 2019 2:36PM Do you think they are out of ideas or can they add new mechanics?
With new Trials and Dungeons are the fight Mechanics getting stale? 55 votes
Yes, they are out of ideas
38%
21 votes
No, the fights feel refreshing
29%
16 votes
It's possible for them add new mechanics
32%
18 votes
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therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭75% of the Dungeons and Trial released over the past year delivered new mechanics, and Scalebreaker will introduce another new mechanic.
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sudaki_eso✭✭✭✭✭Have you read the latest news article? Sounds like they came up with something new
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56655In addition to its defenders, Moongrave Fane also features some engaging new puzzle elements: sliding stones.
“Moongrave’s sliding stones are a unique puzzle mechanic we developed for the Dungeon, but they are more than just a door-opening mechanism,” explains Finnigan.
You can move these massive, ornate blocks around the dungeon by striking them, and you’ll need to move them around the map if you are to progress. However, as you dive deeper into Moongrave Fane, you will find additional uses for these ancient relics.
“Because they have weight and collision, they can be used in boss fights as well. They are one more layer of interactivity we provide for players to make an impact in the dungeon and fight spaces.”PS4 EU - StamDK4 -
Kingslayer513✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's possible for them add new mechanicsI don't think they're completely out of ideas, but I do think that vSS felt pretty recycled in terms of mechanics. Back on PTS I pugged it from zone chat and cleared because it was so straight forward. I think there's room for improvement.1 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's possible for them add new mechanicsvSS was definitely a huge disappointment mechanic wise. I think it's one step they've made in a series of embracing our obsession with stacking -- which they're not supposed to enable, damnit. IMO they need to go back to trials that require you to come up with positioning. I still think trials hit their high in vMOL. That place is a work of art and it's where they need to take inspiration from.
However, as others have said, dungeons seem to be doing okay. I'm still quite happy with Frostvault and if the Scalebreaker mechanics are as good as they seem, I'm fricking stoked. They just need to ensure that DPS can't trump mechanics. I was just in vDoM yesterday and have to admit that as a healer, the mechanic in the King Narilmor fight often flies over my head. Missing it isn't punishing enough -- which is tragic because it's something I was gushing about when it was new. ZOS just needs to force us a little more; because as much as we love mechanics, we will ALWAYS strive to finish something in the most efficient way. It's ZOS' duty to make sure that playing mechanics is the most efficient way to go.
I am... Cautiously optimistic. But vSS is still sad.Edited by Raisin on July 18, 2019 4:03PM4 -
therift✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kingslayer513 wrote: »I don't think they're completely out of ideas, but I do think that vSS felt pretty recycled in terms of mechanics. Back on PTS I pugged it from zone chat and cleared because it was so straight forward. I think there's room for improvement.
I agree. I was excited about a full scale Trial, rather than another stripped-down three ring circus, but considering all of the possibilities dragons might offer, Sunspire is somewhat stale, as OP suggested. The art though... Art Team gets an 'A'.
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Deloth_Vyrr✭✭✭Yes, they are out of ideasSunspire is definitely the Olympics of reused mechanics. Visually the fights are amazing, but mechanically even the hard modes are pretty stale (not saying they're easy, difficulty and complexity can be mutually exclusive).
The fact that every dragon is basically a stack and burn, glorified parse dummy with short breaks of adds to kill in between each burn phase was fun the first couple times, but this trial got boring a lot quicker than others for me.Edited by Deloth_Vyrr on July 18, 2019 4:41PM<Twin-Moons Covenant> PC NA
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Voice of Reason
Shadow Breaker
Flawless Conqueror4 -
Grandma✭✭✭✭✭It's possible for them add new mechanicsdungeons are fine, great even, but sunspire was so boring in terms of mechanics. unless you're a support it's literally just 3 parse dummies in a row. ZOS wanted to make raids accessible for boring stam builds and in doing so made them incredibly boring, because being "stamina accessible" means "being a parse dummy".GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer1
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Deloth_Vyrr✭✭✭Yes, they are out of ideasdungeons are fine, great even, but sunspire was so boring in terms of mechanics. unless you're a support it's literally just 3 parse dummies in a row. ZOS wanted to make raids accessible for boring stam builds and in doing so made them incredibly boring, because being "stamina accessible" means "being a parse dummy".
It doesn't have to be. Plenty of MMOs design complex and interesting raid mechanics that still allow melee dps to be viable.<Twin-Moons Covenant> PC NA
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
Voice of Reason
Shadow Breaker
Flawless Conqueror2 -
Heyodude✭✭✭IronWooshu wrote: »General consensus? Is the boss fights in ESO getting old, it seems like with new trials the mechanics are just mechanics from other bosses combined. Trials are being beat in a few hours on the PTS when they come out because all people have to do is figure out what fight mechanic the new boss is using and compare it to a boss of old.
Do you think they are out of ideas or can they add new mechanics?
Well the actual experience is HM's. Most of the trials on HM are day and night difference to its regular veteran option. HM Nahvintas is the culmination of what is going on this patch, its the actual mythical beast promised via the story-line. Meanwhile every regular vet option is just a stack and burn, which is what 98% of the player base is only going to achieve. I dont blame anyone who doesnt want to subject themselves to weeks of torment trying to master things the developers dont even take the time to balance. But if you dont go for the endgame experience dont complain that all you are getting is the same old.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, the fights feel refreshingsudaki_eso wrote: »Have you read the latest news article? Sounds like they came up with something new
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/56655In addition to its defenders, Moongrave Fane also features some engaging new puzzle elements: sliding stones.
“Moongrave’s sliding stones are a unique puzzle mechanic we developed for the Dungeon, but they are more than just a door-opening mechanism,” explains Finnigan.
You can move these massive, ornate blocks around the dungeon by striking them, and you’ll need to move them around the map if you are to progress. However, as you dive deeper into Moongrave Fane, you will find additional uses for these ancient relics.
“Because they have weight and collision, they can be used in boss fights as well. They are one more layer of interactivity we provide for players to make an impact in the dungeon and fight spaces.”
The PTS feedback threads are better barometers of what a dungeon offers than a PR article.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484085
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484087
The sliding boxes are a gimmick at best, a nuisance at worst.
That having been said, the other dungeon's HM mechanic is marvelous and one of the best they've done.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
Runefang✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, they are out of ideasvSS is quite lacking, yes the hard modes do give you bit more variety but even then it still feels really stale fighting 3 dragons that all land and just let you stand there between its head and wing while you wail on them. There could be more variety between bosses but they simply chose to keep it vanilla. Either due to some combination of time, cost or lack of imagination.
Like Lokkestiiz ice cages.... I have to jump into an ice cage which hurts me and then a healer has to bring me back to health. But why is it like that? It feels like a nonsensical mechanic because it started with the wrong end in mind. They wanted a mechanic that would require a healer rather than a mechanic that was fun and engaging. I hate being the dps who has to do a cage because its boring, there is nothing I personally can do to help and it means that I just have to stare at my screen until its over. It also only takes one healer to complete the mechanic, leaving the rest of the trial group with an even more flavourless fight.
The MoL trial is still to-date the best trial they've done. It has engaging mechanics that even today don't feel as stale as Sunspire mechanics do already. Get whoever designed that trial and hire them back to design the next few please.0 -
TheNightflame✭✭✭✭✭The dungeons have new mechanics each time, (LoM hardmode is super cool, as was FV hardmode, as was MoS hardmode, etc. etc.).
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FoulSnowpaw✭✭✭It's possible for them add new mechanicsDungeons and Trials should just have more mechanics and less struggling to have to deal with the typical boss one hit and wipe, because literally that's what it is... tank/healer dies and it's over for whole group. Stack and burn is pretty much forced on every vet trial because resource management and maximums are so intense... and some even time sensitive. It's the same thing over and over again.
I can't say there are no more ideas, because there are indeed ideas out there, it's just a matter if ZOS is willing to try different gameplay styles in trials. As for dungeons I feel like the recent ones vDOM and vFV have some new mechanics that are not too hard but doable enough to be competitive and fun.
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WuffyCerulei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No, the fights feel refreshingThe last 2 trials, Cloudrest and Sunspire, have both introduced interesting mechanics. I really enjoy Sunspire as it’s not a gods damn DPS race like Asylum or even Cloudrest. And it’s not punishing to be melee."Buzz Lightyear toy isle shot" Stormcalling/Animal Companions/Assassination PVP build hater
Bring Back Pure Class Build Power0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, the fights feel refreshingWuffyCerulei wrote: »The last 2 trials, Cloudrest and Sunspire, have both introduced interesting mechanics. I really enjoy Sunspire as it’s not a gods damn DPS race like Asylum or even Cloudrest. And it’s not punishing to be melee.
Sunspire is entirely bereft of positioning mechanics. And for the DDs, it's a dummy hump. Cloudrest, from a mechanics point of view, is still one of the best ever. Sunspire is just boring. And for Yolnahkriin HM and portals for Nahviintaas HM, it most definitely a DPS race.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, they are out of ideastheres only one dungeon in eso.
trash fight-->miniboss-->trashfight-->miniboss--> trashfight--> miniboss---> boss
show me one dungeon that isnt exactly this.
30 odd dungeons zero variability.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's possible for them add new mechanicsWuffyCerulei wrote: »The last 2 trials, Cloudrest and Sunspire, have both introduced interesting mechanics. I really enjoy Sunspire as it’s not a gods damn DPS race like Asylum or even Cloudrest. And it’s not punishing to be melee.
Sunspire is entirely bereft of positioning mechanics. And for the DDs, it's a dummy hump. Cloudrest, from a mechanics point of view, is still one of the best ever. Sunspire is just boring. And for Yolnahkriin HM and portals for Nahviintaas HM, it most definitely a DPS race.
I honestly was hoping for more mechanics in Sunspire, compared to Cloudrest. Haven't finished the HMs on Yol or Nahv yet, but when we tried we decided to nope on it that day until we got some things fixed around.0