PLEASE, stop this before its too late! (Vigor)
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Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.
And pretty much every magicka uses a resto. Yes, Vigor heals for 50% more because it only heals the user and not an additional player. Magicka can also use a proactive defense called damage shields in order to mitigate the need for healing while being on the offensive. It's a pretty simple thing to conceptualize.
Nah. Magicka users use resto staves for one skill and maybe an ult. We would absolutely take S&B or even an ice staff over the resto itself. 2H, on the other hand, has good weapon passives and way more utility in the skill line. It's a big difference.
And stamina users get additional blocks and dodges as another layer of defense. That's the equivalent to shields.4 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
This isn't fine because entropy and soul trap will never "outstrip" the new vigor.
Stamina non rollercloakblade build run almost capped resistances with a lot of healing buff modifier.
Agree to disagree. Tooltip entropy and soul trap hit 5.4k/s to vigor's 3.4. No rally/momentum heal means if you cancel their vigor, they're walking stationary hp numbers even through their resistances.
Where do you get 5.4k entropy and soul trap tooltips?
2*2.7k. On my pve build they hit for more
0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.
And pretty much every magicka uses a resto. Yes, Vigor heals for 50% more because it only heals the user and not an additional player. Magicka can also use a proactive defense called damage shields in order to mitigate the need for healing while being on the offensive. It's a pretty simple thing to conceptualize.
Shields don’t apply to every class. Light Armor shield has been nerfed. There is no nerf for dodge roll or the mitigation medium / heavy Stamina builds get as defensive mechanisms.
Yeah they use a Resto because they have to not because they want to.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
This isn't fine because entropy and soul trap will never "outstrip" the new vigor.
Stamina non rollercloakblade build run almost capped resistances with a lot of healing buff modifier.
Agree to disagree. Tooltip entropy and soul trap hit 5.4k/s to vigor's 3.4. No rally/momentum heal means if you cancel their vigor, they're walking stationary hp numbers even through their resistances.
Where do you get 5.4k entropy and soul trap tooltips?
Where do you get 30k vigor?Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions2 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.
And pretty much every magicka uses a resto. Yes, Vigor heals for 50% more because it only heals the user and not an additional player. Magicka can also use a proactive defense called damage shields in order to mitigate the need for healing while being on the offensive. It's a pretty simple thing to conceptualize.
Nah. Magicka users use resto staves for one skill and maybe an ult. We would absolutely take S&B or even an ice staff over the resto itself. 2H, on the other hand, has good weapon passives and way more utility in the skill line. It's a big difference.
And stamina users get additional blocks and dodges as another layer of defense. That's the equivalent to shields.
Until this PTS happened, Rally is the only ability that I used from the 2H, and if it weren't for the new 2H Ultimate I would drop the 2H entirely since DW is superior.
Also no, dodge rolling is not the equivalent to shields. They're completely different. I would explain the differences, but you're not new and should know better by now.2 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
They slot SnB because it makes them even tankier and healing up with Vigor is super easy when they’re on SnB bar. That’s exactly the point, Vigor can be used with any weapon and on any bar, Regeneration can’t. And on top of that’s it’s not only weaker but almost 50% more expensive.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭Make the resto HoT heal the caster an take into account the buffed heal resto will gove you at lower health an were good0
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i really dont get why they would buff vigor and make it even more essential to stam players basically forcing pve players into pvp they dont want to do
and at the same time nerf rally...
some changes are just straight up weird0 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭Thats fine then just make all heals scale with highest resources and cost the stat of your highest resource done an done! Build diversity and balance!2
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Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Thats fine then just make all heals scale with highest resources and cost the stat of your highest resource done an done! Build diversity and balance!
I wish this would be the case for every single skill in the game, maybe except tank/defensive skills.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
They slot SnB because it makes them even tankier and healing up with Vigor is super easy when they’re on SnB bar. That’s exactly the point, Vigor can be used with any weapon and on any bar, Regeneration can’t. And on top of that’s it’s not only weaker but almost 50% more expensive.
Nothing you keep ignore the difference between stamina and magika.
Magika classes have more healing skill in their class toolkit and got a weapon skill line.(resto staff)
Stamina have a weapon skill line(2h)and vigor it's really easy to understand.If stamina had the same healing from class skill maybe vigor was not even in game right now.
But the game is not designed this way.
Also vigor is 2350 stamina vs rapid regen 2700 "almost 50% more expensive" not even taking in account that magika got a bigger resource pool than stamina.
Vigor got a 85%increase vs 98% for rapid regen then we add 5% from resto staff passive,30% more on low hp target and major mending from an HA aswell.
While is not always guaranteed on yourself (and can be annoying i know)is not a negative since you might want to heal an ally with it sometime.
Now how is vigor so much better than rapid regen is beyond me.Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on July 14, 2019 4:07AM5 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
They slot SnB because it makes them even tankier and healing up with Vigor is super easy when they’re on SnB bar. That’s exactly the point, Vigor can be used with any weapon and on any bar, Regeneration can’t. And on top of that’s it’s not only weaker but almost 50% more expensive.
Nothing you keep ignore the difference between stamina and magika.
Magika classes have more healing skill in their class toolkit and got a weapon skill line.(resto staff)
Stamina have a weapon skill line(2h)and vigor it's really easy to understand.If stamina had the same healing from class skill maybe vigor was not even in game right now.
But the game is not designed this way.
Also vigor is 2350 stamina vs rapid regen 2700 "al most 50% more expensive" not even taking in account that magika got a bigger resource pool than stamina.
Vigor got a 85%increase vs 98% for rapid regen then we add 5% from resto staff passive,30% more on low hp target and major mending from an HA aswell.
While is not always guaranteed on yourself (and can be annoying i know)is not a negative since you might want to heal an ally with it sometime.
Now how is vigor so much better than rapid regen is beyond me.
Alongside the fact that resolving vigor got a 50% increase in potency rather than 85% and FM / rally lost it's HoT. They keep pointing to "but I gotta slot a restro staff", yeah what about stamina builds having to slot 2h for years? And it's not as if restro staff is bad, it has the best heavy attack in the game for restoring magicka (alongside giving major mending), a fantastic defensive ultimate and now a heal which is just as good as vigor.
Also might I add, vigor is 15% cheaper than rapid regen because it's a stamina skill. Stamina skills are universally 15% cheaper than magicka skills. That's why it costs 2350 rather than 2700.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.2 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.
And pretty much every magicka uses a resto. Yes, Vigor heals for 50% more because it only heals the user and not an additional player. Magicka can also use a proactive defense called damage shields in order to mitigate the need for healing while being on the offensive. It's a pretty simple thing to conceptualize.
if you are a solo player, important is to heal yourself. I don't care about others
Magicka has damage shields, but stamina has dodge rolls (yes it is defensive mechanic - most effecive it is on ranged skills since you can completely mitigate 2 or 3 skills with one roll - ), block and its skills are much cheaper. stamina can also put everything to the main resource (stamina) to boost damage, healing and utility tools (dodge/block/...) while Magicka has to put something to stamina
even with shacklebreaker, in no-cp its common death - to run out of stamina while it's needed for cc break/ roll
Edited by Anyron on July 13, 2019 10:16PM2 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Is Vigor so good that some Magicka players with a good Stamina pool (20k+) will want to use?1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
They slot SnB because it makes them even tankier and healing up with Vigor is super easy when they’re on SnB bar. That’s exactly the point, Vigor can be used with any weapon and on any bar, Regeneration can’t. And on top of that’s it’s not only weaker but almost 50% more expensive.
Nothing you keep ignore the difference between stamina and magika.
Magika classes have more healing skill in their class toolkit and got a weapon skill line.(resto staff)
Stamina have a weapon skill line(2h)and vigor it's really easy to understand.If stamina had the same healing from class skill maybe vigor was not even in game right now.
But the game is not designed this way.
Also vigor is 2350 stamina vs rapid regen 2700 "al most 50% more expensive" not even taking in account that magika got a bigger resource pool than stamina.
Vigor got a 85%increase vs 98% for rapid regen then we add 5% from resto staff passive,30% more on low hp target and major mending from an HA aswell.
While is not always guaranteed on yourself (and can be annoying i know)is not a negative since you might want to heal an ally with it sometime.
Now how is vigor so much better than rapid regen is beyond me.
Alongside the fact that resolving vigor got a 50% increase in potency rather than 85% and FM / rally lost it's HoT. They keep pointing to "but I gotta slot a restro staff", yeah what about stamina builds having to slot 2h for years? And it's not as if restro staff is bad, it has the best heavy attack in the game for restoring magicka (alongside giving major mending), a fantastic defensive ultimate and now a heal which is just as good as vigor.
Also might I add, vigor is 15% cheaper than rapid regen because it's a stamina skill. Stamina skills are universally 15% cheaper than magicka skills. That's why it costs 2350 rather than 2700.
Ye i agree,i was telling this in other thread aswell but "2h is awesome resto staff is a weaker weapon" you know "it give me 0 dps1!11!111" because apparently utility/support weapon are trash when i slot a resto staff on all my magika char but hey "weaker weapon"indeed.
I would like to play dw/bow but i can't because i need rally and i need to slot a 2h.
They just want to gut vigor i guess.Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on July 13, 2019 10:50PM3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.
And pretty much every magicka uses a resto. Yes, Vigor heals for 50% more because it only heals the user and not an additional player. Magicka can also use a proactive defense called damage shields in order to mitigate the need for healing while being on the offensive. It's a pretty simple thing to conceptualize.
Nah. Magicka users use resto staves for one skill and maybe an ult. We would absolutely take S&B or even an ice staff over the resto itself. 2H, on the other hand, has good weapon passives and way more utility in the skill line. It's a big difference.
And stamina users get additional blocks and dodges as another layer of defense. That's the equivalent to shields.
Until this PTS happened, Rally is the only ability that I used from the 2H, and if it weren't for the new 2H Ultimate I would drop the 2H entirely since DW is superior.
Also no, dodge rolling is not the equivalent to shields. They're completely different. I would explain the differences, but you're not new and should know better by now.
Same thing. Use those to give your heals time to tick.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
I disagree that it’s a nerf to people using vigor to heal each other. Couple things that contradict this:
1. HPS is slightly down but it’s now double the duration. That means healing efficiency has more then doubled because you’re getting almost the same effect but it has to be cast way less often, and now costs less
2. The range increase on the group heal vigor has increased dramatically. It went from 10m to 15m.
Looking at these two things I think it’s obvious ZoS wants to allow stamina healing in pvp. Stamwardens look like they’ll be stronger then a lot of magicka classes at healing after the patch.Edited by Iskiab on July 14, 2019 2:16AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
DemonDruaga✭✭✭✭Vortigaunt wrote: »
Even on my non cp char i get 1k non crit..
People are crazy to ignore that nerf and just jump onto the - 85%- buff.Ardor // Dunkelsicht // Pakt1 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
I disagree that it’s a nerf to people using vigor to heal each other-a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values
1. HPS is slightly down but
Okay then.it’s now double the duration. That means healing efficiency has more then doubled because you’re getting almost the same effect but it has to be cast way less often, and now costs less
You could stack vigor, echoing vigor, and resolving vigor live. In the pts you can only stack resolving and echoing, and one of them HAS to be yours. It is a group healing nerf, in HPS, number of vigors used, and tbh where most people are using the self targeted one anyway...3. The range increase on the group heal vigor has increased dramatically. It went from 10m to 15m.
It does this on live.Looking at these two things I think it’s obvious ZoS wants to allow stamina healing in pvp. Stamwardens look like they’ll be stronger then a lot of magicka classes at healing after the patch.
No comment.
2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.
Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.Edited by Anti_Virus on July 14, 2019 4:54AMPower Wealth And Influence.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Thats fine then just make all heals scale with highest resources and cost the stat of your highest resource done an done! Build diversity and balance!
I wish this would be the case for every single skill in the game, maybe except tank/defensive skills.
I made a thread about this and all the magicka spec came out the wood works claiming it would make melee builds OP. You can’t win with magicka playersPower Wealth And Influence.2 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭new changes to VIGOR, and its recent buffs (hot buff) can change pvp balance more than ever.
i am talking about that AOE heal version. with its current potency (on pts 5.1.0), this can make mass stacked groups completely invulnerable to all counters, like negate
this game is mass pvp, sure, but it should not be MASS STACKED pvp
It is PVP skill, so it should be PVP balanced. with recent changes, Magicka healers become weaker, but spin2win-healers may occur without any way to stop their heals
Make this right and fix it before its too late.
?0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It should? Magicka has shields for proactive defense now along with RR, stamina doesn’t have any proactive form of defense, thus it should have stronger healing over time to act as such.
Logic is really easy to see, like really easy, for anyone with a basic High School education.
Exactly. This isn't difficult comprehend.
You realize mag needs to slot a PVE weapon to use rapid regen right ? . The passives are utter garbage for PVP compared to sword and board
3 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
They slot SnB because it makes them even tankier and healing up with Vigor is super easy when they’re on SnB bar. That’s exactly the point, Vigor can be used with any weapon and on any bar, Regeneration can’t. And on top of that’s it’s not only weaker but almost 50% more expensive.
Nothing you keep ignore the difference between stamina and magika.
Magika classes have more healing skill in their class toolkit and got a weapon skill line.(resto staff)
Stamina have a weapon skill line(2h)and vigor it's really easy to understand.If stamina had the same healing from class skill maybe vigor was not even in game right now.
But the game is not designed this way.
Also vigor is 2350 stamina vs rapid regen 2700 "almost 50% more expensive" not even taking in account that magika got a bigger resource pool than stamina.
Vigor got a 85%increase vs 98% for rapid regen then we add 5% from resto staff passive,30% more on low hp target and major mending from an HA aswell.
While is not always guaranteed on yourself (and can be annoying i know)is not a negative since you might want to heal an ally with it sometime.
Now how is vigor so much better than rapid regen is beyond me.
Really you dont get it? It´s really beyond you?
1- Vigor is used on any stam build. Even i´d say in any role. With any weapon. RR can be used only with a weapon used by healers or in some Pvp specs. And if you use Resto on PvP you´re using a horrible passives Weapon for PvP.
2- Vigor after changes cost less than 2k (check tooltips in this thread) and heals for 20k easily. RR costs 2,7k. Almost 50% cheaper.
3- Vigor heals more than RR.
4- RR has some advantages which affects to healing size but also bad inconvenients (like casting it on anyone not yourself).
5- Sure, the magical classes have access to more healing skills. But ESO isn´t a game (like wow or lotro are, for example) of quantity of spells over quality. In wow you can have like 5 diff healing skills on your bars and choose the aproppiate one. This doesn´t work for ESO. Here you have just 10 skill slots and you want a few of skills, which must be absolutely brilliant. May Stamina have only one heal (not true, but ok if it was), but if they got the best one, they´re on advantage over Magicka.
Magicka having many skills is good if you are a healer. It doesn´t mind if you´re tank or DD.
Sure, magicka healers are better than stamina ones, but tank and DD healing is way over better in Stamina toons. Again, ive just write facts, if you cannot see them then it´s you´re blind by your own class chosing.
Edited by Saril_Durzam on July 14, 2019 7:02AM3 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.
Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.
Well... You have stam heals on wardens. Just. Saying.1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »
Yet 85% of cyrodil slot snb on stam toons.. randomly generated percentile based on ephemeral data andSaril_Durzam wrote: »ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »Or you could slot an Ice staff
Ice Staff is a tank weapon. I can´t see a stam DPS being asked to slot s&b to get some skill work.
They slot SnB because it makes them even tankier and healing up with Vigor is super easy when they’re on SnB bar. That’s exactly the point, Vigor can be used with any weapon and on any bar, Regeneration can’t. And on top of that’s it’s not only weaker but almost 50% more expensive.
Nothing you keep ignore the difference between stamina and magika.
Magika classes have more healing skill in their class toolkit and got a weapon skill line.(resto staff)
Stamina have a weapon skill line(2h)and vigor it's really easy to understand.If stamina had the same healing from class skill maybe vigor was not even in game right now.
But the game is not designed this way.
Also vigor is 2350 stamina vs rapid regen 2700 "almost 50% more expensive" not even taking in account that magika got a bigger resource pool than stamina.
Vigor got a 85%increase vs 98% for rapid regen then we add 5% from resto staff passive,30% more on low hp target and major mending from an HA aswell.
While is not always guaranteed on yourself (and can be annoying i know)is not a negative since you might want to heal an ally with it sometime.
Now how is vigor so much better than rapid regen is beyond me.
Really you dont get it? It´s really beyond you?
1- Vigor is used on any stam build. Even i´d say in any role. With any weapon. RR can be used only with a weapon used by healers or in some Pvp specs. And if you use Resto on PvP you´re using a horrible passives Weapon for PvP.
2- Vigor after changes cost less than 2k (check tooltips in this thread) and heals for 20k easily. RR costs 2,7k. Almost 50% cheaper.
3- Vigor heals more than RR.
4- RR has some advantages which affects to healing size but also bad inconvenients (like casting it on anyone not yourself).
5- Sure, the magical classes have access to more healing skills. But ESO isn´t a game (like wow or lotro are, for example) of quantity of spells over quality. In wow you can have like 5 diff healing skills on your bars and choose the aproppiate one. This doesn´t work for ESO. Here you have just 10 skill slots and you want a few of skills, which must be absolutely brilliant. May Stamina have only one heal (not true, but ok if it was), but if they got the best one, they´re on advantage over Magicka.
Magicka having many skills is good if you are a healer. It doesn´t mind if you´re tank or DD.
Sure, magicka healers are better than stamina ones, but tank and DD healing is way over better in Stamina toons. Again, ive just write facts, if you cannot see them then it´s you´re blind by your own class chosing.
Vigor cost is 2350 (can't even read?)vs 2700 of rapid regen but magika get bigger stat pool,apparently better ignore that part.
The cost get lower with ranks same goes for rapid i guess.
The patch note said increased cost from 2100 to 2700 on live for me it's 1700 so yeah good try but it's not 50% more expensive.
Lol at the orrible passive weapon for pvp,no sense.
Huge magika return from heavy attack and give you major mending,15% more heal at low hp and 5% extra healing.Yeah terrible indeed.
Vigor is used on every stamina build BECAUSE IS THE ONLY HEAL THEY GET outside of rally,try to remember this next time.
Vigor heal more?maybe no one provided a tooltip of both spell on pts so yeah maybe it does but how much more?rapid got increased by 98%vs 85% and let me remimd you again Rapid get all the staff passive that you might forgot they exist:5% extra healing,15% extra healing on low hp target,major mending from HA.
Not all of them are reflected on the tooltip but they increase the healing of rapid regen aswell.
Alredy said can be annoying targetting someone else in some situation but more rewarding in other.
Magika class got their healing tool on class skill require 0 weapon equipped to use,stamina get vigor how is this hard to understand to you?
Also lol at stamina get the advantage over magika in healing.
Maybe the blind one is you with that biased opinion.
Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on July 14, 2019 9:02AM5 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.
Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.
As already explained: ESO (due limited skill slots) isn´t a game of quantity, but quality. Each skill you place that don´t help doing DPS is halfwasted slot. Hence you will want to put just one slot for healing, and you will want that heal be as better as possible.
RIght now, Vigor will be the best heal at the game, cheap, potent and usable in every condition and build. Magicka players dont have anything that gets even closer to Vigor. Im for sure not the only one that would change the entire Resto skill line and class heals for having Vigor. Only magplars really can keep what they have. Futhermore, stamina players should have higher resistances than magicka due armor type, so Vigor would be a more effective heal.
Let´s imagine the oppositeexample. You´re a healer and have just 1slot for DPS skill. What would you want? To have 1 strong, cheap DOT in your arsenal available, or 1 expensive and weak DD and 1 expensive weak DOT? That´s what we have with Vigor and magicka heals.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.
Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.
Well... You have stam heals on wardens. Just. Saying.
And only on warden, how about we extend that to other classes? I bet you would have a problem with that.Saril_Durzam wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »vigor - any bar and can use whenever.....
RR - mainly back bar, (why, cause resto doesnt do damage) need a certain weapon, wait for skill to go off ( cause pvp lag).....and then wait for tick....
Yeah they are really close lmfao.....
Seriously ladies and gents, they arent even close to the same.....period. Come up with all the silly little excuses that you want, but anyone who has seriously played pvp knows the difference.
Vigor is also the only stam heal in the game. Are you down to share class heals? Then you can nerf vigor.
As already explained: ESO (due limited skill slots) isn´t a game of quantity, but quality. Each skill you place that don´t help doing DPS is halfwasted slot. Hence you will want to put just one slot for healing, and you will want that heal be as better as possible.
RIght now, Vigor will be the best heal at the game, cheap, potent and usable in every condition and build. Magicka players dont have anything that gets even closer to Vigor. Im for sure not the only one that would change the entire Resto skill line and class heals for having Vigor. Only magplars really can keep what they have. Futhermore, stamina players should have higher resistances than magicka due armor type, so Vigor would be a more effective heal.
Let´s imagine the oppositeexample. You´re a healer and have just 1slot for DPS skill. What would you want? To have 1 strong, cheap DOT in your arsenal available, or 1 expensive and weak DD and 1 expensive weak DOT? That´s what we have with Vigor and magicka heals.
Still doesn’t answer the question as a stamina build I am forced to use vigor as a heal or I won’t have one It has to be powerful since my options are limited in terms of healing. How do we fix the issue? Make heals scale from max stats but of course you would have a problem with that.
Also heavy armor can be worn by a magicka spec.Edited by Anti_Virus on July 14, 2019 8:20AMPower Wealth And Influence.2 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
Sorry but since rally hot is gone and vigor is single target a buff was needed imo.
So how about we wait few days and see how good actually is?
It's pretty disingenuous to pretend anyone uses Rally for it's HoT, Rally is all about the big burst heal being there when you need it. That's still going to be there and the buffs to Vigor go way beyond giving back the small HoT being lost from Rally.3