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Lokey0024 wrote: »

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Lokey0024 wrote: »

I'm still getting shredded with 28k resists and blocking. Can't fathom trying a Light or medium armor setup outside of no cp, even then still not so sure.

That’s because it’s more than just about having decent resistance, you have to make use of them too. Plus that resistance is going to get cut down, that’s why having access to major and minor protection is good.

Fighting someone like me would put you at 8,619 resistance.

You got a build that can actually kill someone with those passives?

Yes & in medium. In my rune I have 32k resistance on my back bar, 27/28k out of it. Knowing it’s possible to get cut down I run minor and major. I sit at 4K weapon damage and 12,725 flat pen without including minor fracture and 20 percent from maul.

You’re a stam dk so naturally you’re tankier than my stamplar with better heals, so it should be easier for you.

Is that in CP or no-CP? Whenever people talk about great stats like that I think I’m missing something as stam. I can’t replicate the numbers without terrible sustain, what sets are you using?

Let's just gander at the build vs itself.

Let's say mobile fight so not in rune; 28k - 20%, 22.4-12725= 9.7 so against himself his resistance will typically provide 15ish % mitigation vs himself.

Meaning he'll get 25% ish outta major protection

Clearly we see why major protection > 30kish resistance ish

The major protection alone is almost 66% better than his armor resistance

Your math is wrong. Maul penetration comes last not first in the equation so you end up with 12.6k resistance not 9.7

Should be this:
Armor Mitigation = 1-((((armor - major/minor pen)*(1 - percentage debuff ) - flat debuff)/(66 * 1000))))= final percentage

This is correct, ends up being what I said. Looks like the ‘tanky meta’ is actually the ‘undervalue pen’ meta.

Agreed but you can't get that much pen in this game to begin with. We need more options like on jewelry or something.

A lot of players use two handed but refuse to use the ultimate...... It literally takes their resistances so you can go to town on them

The 2h ult is great. It just is, but I can't help but run Bal with it. Practically a 1 shot

olsborg wrote: »

Heavy meta aside, zos keeps handing out mimor and major protection ontop of giving ppl other ways to reduce dmg by a %. This is creating a meta that makes it really hard to die outside of lagg or getting straight zerged. They need to basicly revamp pvp combat imo..

Actually, ZOS keeps repeatedly taking away these things from the Templar Class and giving them to other classes.

The biggest problem with BG's (Let alone CP PVP) is that ZOS cannot seem to balance classes whatsoever. Only two classes that get attention is NB (Stam) and Sorc (Mag). Both have been overperforming and outclassing since Day 1.

With regard to "Tank Meta" this is because of two things (depending on how you play) Stamina characters outperform Mag any day in regard to DPS/Sustain and therefore can build more for defense while maintaining high damage - strongly due to Class passives. The only class that cannot do this is Templar - Templar has viably near zero defense skills anymore **Thanks ZOS for taking Major Protection and Mending and giving it to DK and Necro and Warden**, has no sustain passives but can build for high burst (when channels actually work in low lag/low latency).
The other way to go is Magicka characters who rely on shields. To this extent, Mag Sorc takes the cake..who would have thought. But now, Zoo-Meta is relevant because it's just easy...Next in line for shield building/high damge is MagNB - which this is among the smallest percentage of PVPers now because ZOS keeps nerfing them.
DK's + Wardens can work great as Magicka builds because of natural tankieness and insane CC's.

The opportunity cost of building into mitigation keeps going down.
The five piece bonuses of Spriggan's/Spinner's give 3450 physical or spell penetration. Two pieces of Protective Jewelry gives 3688 physical and spell resistance.
The five piece defense sets like Fortified Brass, Impregnable (RIP 500 crit resists off the five piece), Pariah etc have always been more stat dense than the damage sets which has contributed to the tank meta, but now you don't even have to use a full 5 piece for the privilege of being more tanky.
Abilities like Onslaught and Corrosive armor, Oblivion damage, bleeds and so forth are all at their strongest because of the number of people running "heavy-style" mitigation.
Classic Fury/7th is the classic example of giving up too little to get too much damage and mitigation. Stamina sustain is too easy for this to be heavily punished and when stamina sustain is a problem your opponents still need to get through heavy armor and respect very dangerous burst and it becomes hard to punish skimping on sustain.

Blackrose Resto also is an easy way to gain significant tankiness with minimal investment so long as the class has good heals or you have a healer.
Besides magblade most specs haven't seen major nerfs to their heals, and most self and group heals are a bit over performing now.
Shields are essentially pre-castable heals that scale very well with max stats that are very cheap to get as well. Probably a fair bit better than heals in abstract.
In many ways heals and shields are only OP because of the way they scale with mitigation that is too easy to get.

Defile was a bad counter to healing that is much more effective as a 1v1 or Xv1 mechanic than a counter to heals. The main counter to heals/shields continues to be stacked burst. Shields happen to be better than heals against stacked burst.
Stacked burst encourages larger and larger groups with more people building to survive their opponents' stacked burst.
Defensive sets/traits are more stat effective than offensive sets and so if you can get enough people in defensive sets with just enough health to survive then your opponent likely can't win before the low damage from more enemies puts them on the nearly permanent defensive.

It's not that is impossible to kill the tankier targets but the opportunity cost of not speccing into defense is higher than the cost of not speccing into damage or sustain.


All of the above was true before the block mitigation changes. Those changes at least improve a form of somewhat active defense.

TLDR: Passive mitigation is too cost effective in builds and making up for missing damage/sustain is too easy.

Heimpai wrote: »

I should run 2 tanky sets and pirate skelly on my stamden

When you keep seeing how well it works for the AD and EP zerg guilds you start to believe in the power. Also stops people from dying before they can D/C members of smaller specialized groups hoping to take out vital members. PC NA Vivec Kaal strategies are so fun!

Poor DC doesn't have D/C based guilds running which is so sad for them .

I'm sorta joking here and sort of not.