Stx wrote: »

All I know is that if I need a 3rd party site to find the lowest price for something the system is broken. I dont even know what I would do without ttc...

It's even more broken if half the playerbase doesn't have access to that 3rd party site.

But that's fine, as we've just seen a few posts above the attitude of PC traders is that console users can just make do.

Note, I'm a PC player with no interest in using the present trading system, not a console player, although I do understand how much more frustrating the present system must be on console.

Tandor wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

All I know is that if I need a 3rd party site to find the lowest price for something the system is broken. I dont even know what I would do without ttc...

It's even more broken if half the playerbase doesn't have access to that 3rd party site.

But that's fine, as we've just seen a few posts above the attitude of PC traders is that console users can just make do.

Note, I'm a PC player with no interest in using the present trading system, not a console player, although I do understand how much more frustrating the present system must be on console.

Are you referring to me? If so you should reread my post. I am FOR an improved system, also for console players. But what I said was it wont ever happen. I would still WANT it to happen, Im merely saying that console players should migrate to PC to get TTC functionality rather than wait 4 more years only for ZOS to implement a rudimentary version of it.

Options on the vote are limited.

I'd like a global AH but also keep the current guild traders and let them run side by side. No need to eliminate the guild traders- just tone them down a bit.

The guild trader system is pretty flawed and not very welcoming to newer players or occasional traders as all the best spots and busiest places are permanently camped by a few massive trade guilds. The difference between belonging to one of the major trading guilds (with their big trade requirements) and belonging to a minor one is HUGE. You can list the exact items in two guilds, one a major and one a minor, and the difference in price achieved and sales is massive, giving all the advantages to those with the major guild. I know this for a fact having belonged to both and conducted this experiment over a number of months.

Of course members of those most powerful trade guilds have all come on here and voted against any change to the status quo as it benefits them most....

Jeremy wrote: »

Ardan147 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Wow..people are still fighting to try and make WoW's AH system a reality in ESO. No thank you.

It's already a reality on ESO. People use addons that let them shop for the lowest priced item - which is really all an auction house does. They also already use addons that allow them to see a global price history for items making all the guild stores share a common market anyway.

The argument against auction houses on ESO is really no longer tenable. The new argument is should people who don't use these addons have the same access to an auction house that those who do use them have. And I say yes.

If it worked so well no one would have started threads like that. TTC can help but if you try going for the cheapest items you will quickly find out that none of them are actually there.

It's more cumbersome to use than an auction house - but the results are the same. All the guild stores now share a common market and are priced accordingly. The only difference is running around buying the items requires more legwork.

That's why I say the developers should stop pretending they are doing something different (they aren't) and just implement a tried and true auction house at this point. That way everyone - even those who don't use or have access to these addons - can view price histories and purchase items at a lower cost.

No, it is NOT the same. With a global auction house, everything is right there in one place, ready for purchase. TTC might help you find stuff, but there is no guarantee that the item will still be in the store when you actually go there. For items traded in large quantities, it is pretty much a guarantee that the lowest price listing for that item will NOT be in the store, unless it was very, very recent. Trying to use TTC to find the lowest priced stack of cornflower being sold anywhere on the server, for instance, would be utterly futile. (Which is a GOOD thing because it prevents massive undercutting).

If you want a global auction house, go play World of Warcraft.

Why just World of Warcraft? Just about every MMORPG I have ever played had an auction house. Final Fantasy 11, Star Wars the Old Republic, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2. Aion....I could go on and on. It would be more accurate to say go play just about any other game on the market. And there is a reason for that.

The only other high budget MMO I can think of in recent memory that attempted an economy without an auction house was Final Fantasy 14 - which ended up to be an abysmal failure and one they quickly corrected. Much like ESO's original guild trader idea was also an abysmal failure. Which is why they've had to change it significantly over the years and why nearly everyone uses addons to try and make it function as much like an auction house as possible. So if the guild trader system really was superior to its auction house counterpart then everyone would not be using these addons to make it function more like an auction house to begin with. That's called logic. Which is ironic - because I would be willing to bet many of the same people opposed to an auction house are the very same people who download and use these addons to make the guild trader system function more like an auction house. In other words: their opposition literally makes no sense whatsoever and is belied by even their own actions.

Your argument - which seems to be that these addons are so very different from auction houses because an item may be purchased before the person goes to the guild trader - is tenuous at best. The fact remains - people use addons to view a global price history to determine how much to sell their items for - which means all of the guild traders already share a common and competitive market with each other. So what ever evil manipulation you believe can occur through use of a central market it can already be done in the current system through use of these addons. So as I say - there is no legitimate argument against having an auction house on this game any longer. The logic against it has already been soundly crushed by the use of these addons.

But to respond directly to your last point - there is more to an MMORPG than just its in-game economy - nor is it the sole reason I play video games. Because believe you me if it was I would go play a different game. This game's ridiculous guild trader system has been a disaster from the start and is still light years behind its competitors who managed to produce a better system over a decade ago.

You are so completely off the mark. The impracticality of using TTC to actually be able to find and buy the absolute best deals on the server for an item traded in large amounts is what keeps the prices from being forced down by constant undercutting. What keeps even the average (market) priced listings for such items from sitting in the store forever is that the potential buyer decides it's good enough and doesn't have time to go around trying to find the absolutely best deal on the item. Even if they check TTC and see the same thing listed for less, they still might not want to be bothered traveling all the way to that trader only to find that the item is gone.(Traders in outlaws' refuges are particularly a pain in the donkey to get to, requiring multiple zone changes and thus loading screens). But with a global auction house, that better deal IS RIGHT THERE. No need to first look it up and then travel to a new location and hope it's still available.

Take an example: you need some more Cornflower for making spell power potions. You go to a guild trader. You see a stack of them for 300g each (quite a good deal actually, last I checked by my MM data, cornflower was going for about 350g each). In your greed, you pull up TTC to check all the listings for Cornflower, sort by lowest price first, and find a number of listings for even less - all of them at least several hours old. You go around to each of them, in order, only to find that they are ALL gone. You come back to the trader that had the 300g ones, and in that time they've all sold as well. Congratulations, you wasted all that time for nothing, and in the end you'll probably end up paying more for it anyway.

Which is why, for such heavily traded items, I don't use TTC at all, only Master Merchant to see what these things are selling for. Typically when I see such things listed low enough to flip for profit I buy them up. Some of it I might relist in one of my high-volume traders, but as I also use mats as much as anyone else I also tend to horde a lot of them. And I know what you're probably thinking here, that I'm just profiting off of flipping items and jacking up prices - which is true - BUT I am far from the only person doing so. The completely decentralized nature of the market allows for nearly anyone to get in on the action, where as with a centralized auction house one could just sit there all day and buy up every single item priced low enough to flip, to the exclusion of nearly every other player on the server.

Another way in which TTC fails to duplicate an auction house is that it doesn't contain every item listed anywhere on the server, as listings only get uploaded when a player with the TTC addon and is running the external client program sees it in a guild store. So it is possible that the lowest priced listing for some item anywhere on the server isn't even on TTC because it hasn't been seen by anyone using the TTC addon. Because I have, from time to time, come across something like a purple furnishing plan (i.e., a rare, high value item not traded in high volume due to its rarity), that when I check TTC to see whether or not it's being sold for significantly cheaper somewhere else, it isn't even in the system at all.

The one big potential problem that the guild trader system could have (when everything is working normally, which right now it isn't) is there not being enough guild traders to accommodate the player base, which would be easily solved simply by adding more traders, particularly in places where people are likely to use them. (Hollow City ought to have two more guild traders, which would also increase the value of the four that are currently there). Given how underutilized some traders appear to be - even those in big cities not too far from wayshrines even - that does not even seem to be the case. From my observation alone, the selection of items in traders in places like Ebonheart, Marbruk and Evermore (just to name a few places; my apologies if I have offended anyone in a guild with a trader there) is nowhere near that of traders in Mournhold or Rawl'kha. At least some of them probably aren't even "trading" guilds, as in trading isn't their primary focus, but simply have the trader because they are able to. And the reason why stuff moves faster in places like Rawl'kha and Mournhold is because people tend to do their shopping there because they are more likely to find what they are looking for. And while one might be able to find better deals elsewhere (sometimes), prices are generally reasonable; there is a cost to pricing something too high - the listing fee that we don't get back if the item doesn't sell, and that it takes up a spot in our store when we can only have up to 30 items listed for sale in any single guild store.

Drachenfier wrote: »

Supply and demand is a thing. It dictates economies in games with auction houses (much like the real world). It is much more difficult to regulate smaller, centralized trading hubs, which is why you have the cesspool of crap trading that goes on in ESO, which is much, much worse on consoles because no one can compare prices.

I've come to the realization that every single person defending this system is a price gouger trying to take advantage of their fellow players.

I’m actually a reckless under cutter and the current system has made me a half million gold this week.

The Guild Trader System is the biggest gold sink in the game.

What would replace the Gold Sink that the Trader Kiosk create each week?

There are 204 Guild Kiosks in the game not including Murkmier and Elsweyr.

So what 500,000 on average of per Kiosk to purchase them each week probably much more .

So 102,000,000 at a minimum each week removed from the game in just the cost of the Kiosks.

Maybe my numbers are of a bit off, but what would replace this as a gold sink???

A increase in the existing tax and fees on the sold items?
How much of a tax and fee increase would replace a weekly minimum of 102,000,000 gold.

Ardan147 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Supply and demand is a thing. It dictates economies in games with auction houses (much like the real world). It is much more difficult to regulate smaller, centralized trading hubs, which is why you have the cesspool of crap trading that goes on in ESO, which is much, much worse on consoles because no one can compare prices.

I've come to the realization that every single person defending this system is a price gouger trying to take advantage of their fellow players.

I’m actually a reckless under cutter and the current system has made me a half million gold this week.

And in doing so probably made a good number of other players some amount of gold by being able to flip those items. But under the current system far more players got to enjoy some of that bounty than would have with a global auction house.

Most assuredly. I’m actively trying to place goods at a low enough level where I make bank but a person could still flip it for a solid profit. No one is gonna flip something because it was priced 1 gold or even 1% lower than the lowest. The guild fees eat up all the margin.

At 10 to 20% they still can.

I sold a runebox for 250K yesterday even though my research said it “should be” a 300K item. I do stuff like that all the time.

majulook wrote: »

The Guild Trader System is the biggest gold sink in the game.

What would replace the Gold Sink that the Trader Kiosk create each week?

There are 204 Guild Kiosks in the game not including Murkmier and Elsweyr.

So what 500,000 on average of per Kiosk to purchase them each week probably much more .

So 102,000,000 at a minimum each week removed from the game in just the cost of the Kiosks.

Maybe my numbers are of a bit off, but what would replace this as a gold sink???

A increase in the existing tax and fees on the sold items?
How much of a tax and fee increase would replace a weekly minimum of 102,000,000 gold.

Everyone keeps saying that and the answer is simple..... Zos gets creative lol.

"House cut" gold would just be cycled out rather than the guild getting a cut of each item sold. That is a lot of gold cycled out right there.

Cycle older crown store items for lots of gold. Just like the golden vendor for monster sets.

Instead of just every 20 hours to train a horse, you can bypass it with an increasing fee each time so say 250 for first one, 1000 for second one before that 20 hour period, 1600 for next, 2400 for next so on and so on.

Or how about styles rotate just like golden vendor

Or how about they make skyshards like 300-500k per zone rather than just crowns.

Or how about special items only available for limited time through gold sinks rather than always being crown store.

Or how about faction taxes. If I post an item as a daggerfall and you are ebonheart you would have to pay a 3000 gold tarrif?

Or how about better items in the golden vendor on a weekly basis that makes pve players that hate cyrodil spend their gold. Constantly trash stuff in the vendor that makes most people save their money.

Idk that's just a few right there without much thought lol.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Yep, as you can see, the reason why some people defend current system so aggressively can be seen in one post above me. They benefit from it, and they want to keep other people out from their closed market. Because open it is not.

I have made exactly 500 golds in last two days. I undercut like hell, but it doesn't help because my guild doesn't have a prime trading place. Today I haven't sold anything. Zero. I suspect it is pretty much the same for most small traders in my guild. I don't even expect to make big money, I would be totally content in making some money but it. Just. Doesn't. Work. For. Casual. Players. I tried to get in big guild but of course they are 1) full 2) not interested in someone who doesn't play this game as their second job. Also, their sale demands are such that I would feel even more like a hostige of this system.

I'm definitely pissed about people fear mongering, spreading lies and gas lighting in this very thread just because they are afraid they would lose their 500K weekly income. I much like to take part in economy in any MMORPG I've played, and I've always done it well enough for me. But in this game? It is impossible because the whole system is rigged so that it favors people who are not afraid to go full mafioso and imagine they are actually playing EVE Online.

But the worst aspect imho is how unfair and unequal this system is. It is the hard fact that if you are not in a major guild with the best trading spot you can forget the whole trading as nothing more than something that gives you few hundreds now and then. While you probably feed your guild so they can keep even the charity trader they somehow managed to get in somewhere middle of the swamp.

One thing that constantly is brought up is "bargains". Why you people think there are not bargains in central Auction House? I know I found tons of them. Have you people REALLY not played any other MMO's (and I'm not speaking about some FIFA here, those are totally different types of games so don't even try)? Like, haven't you really bought and sold anything in a working auction house? Haven't you seen how awesome it can be when you can just go and buy what you want in a 10 seconds? Ya'll act like someones with Stockholm Syndrome.

And with all the money we all are pouring to this developer, all our euros and dollars, they can't even make this assbackwards system work properly. You might get your items in your mail now...or after an hour. Or when you log in next time. The system might let you search for something...or not. Sometimes I can't even buy because lolz the server can't handel two buyers at the same time.

So wipe it clean. All. And build it from the scratch and toss this guild trader system to the pit it belongs.

Sigh ... you had me until you (like others) dismissed the “FIFA” economy. It’s extremely apt to this discussion because of the console player base. That player base, which is tens of thousands of people a day mind you, have had a decade of auction house experience but much of it is not in MMOs. What happens in a PC MMO is less relevant to consoles than what happens in a console sports game. You can poo poo it all you want, but there 100% absolutely would be ESO billionaires on console who would hoard every available useful material and resell it at a mark up. The leg work - it takes hours to visit every trader now - is what stops this from happening today.

So yes, in one aspect you’re right. The current system does not work well for someone who just wants to sell a few items for 500 gold. You are not wrong. What you’re not grasping is that in a GAH environment on console that item would only be sold for 1 gold over vendor price because it would not be deemed worthy of being hoarded. Meanwhile, that item you want today that’s priced at a seemingly insane figure would double, triple or more in price over night. The GAH system only benefits billionaires and people who want stuff NOW! It would not in any way work for you and that 500 gold item.

Edit - by the way, selling any 500 gold item is a waste of time. I used to sell items like that and barely scraped by. Then I personally decided to focus on items that make thousands, not hundreds. It took some time to figure out but I got there and you can too.

Please let me know what item you’re actually talking about. If it’s anything that is even remotely good and you’re in XBox I’ll give you 10,000 gold COD for it. I just want to know what this mysterious item is because I have a sinking feeling you’re talking about something that you should probably vendor anyway.

What would be the benefit to that hypothetical billionaire of buyjngnup very single usable mat? Unless they are reposting at a market clearing price, their inventory will just grow, and grow, and grow, and grow...

So much fearmongering.

Pevey wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Yep, as you can see, the reason why some people defend current system so aggressively can be seen in one post above me. They benefit from it, and they want to keep other people out from their closed market. Because open it is not.

I have made exactly 500 golds in last two days. I undercut like hell, but it doesn't help because my guild doesn't have a prime trading place. Today I haven't sold anything. Zero. I suspect it is pretty much the same for most small traders in my guild. I don't even expect to make big money, I would be totally content in making some money but it. Just. Doesn't. Work. For. Casual. Players. I tried to get in big guild but of course they are 1) full 2) not interested in someone who doesn't play this game as their second job. Also, their sale demands are such that I would feel even more like a hostige of this system.

I'm definitely pissed about people fear mongering, spreading lies and gas lighting in this very thread just because they are afraid they would lose their 500K weekly income. I much like to take part in economy in any MMORPG I've played, and I've always done it well enough for me. But in this game? It is impossible because the whole system is rigged so that it favors people who are not afraid to go full mafioso and imagine they are actually playing EVE Online.

But the worst aspect imho is how unfair and unequal this system is. It is the hard fact that if you are not in a major guild with the best trading spot you can forget the whole trading as nothing more than something that gives you few hundreds now and then. While you probably feed your guild so they can keep even the charity trader they somehow managed to get in somewhere middle of the swamp.

One thing that constantly is brought up is "bargains". Why you people think there are not bargains in central Auction House? I know I found tons of them. Have you people REALLY not played any other MMO's (and I'm not speaking about some FIFA here, those are totally different types of games so don't even try)? Like, haven't you really bought and sold anything in a working auction house? Haven't you seen how awesome it can be when you can just go and buy what you want in a 10 seconds? Ya'll act like someones with Stockholm Syndrome.

And with all the money we all are pouring to this developer, all our euros and dollars, they can't even make this assbackwards system work properly. You might get your items in your mail now...or after an hour. Or when you log in next time. The system might let you search for something...or not. Sometimes I can't even buy because lolz the server can't handel two buyers at the same time.

So wipe it clean. All. And build it from the scratch and toss this guild trader system to the pit it belongs.

Sigh ... you had me until you (like others) dismissed the “FIFA” economy. It’s extremely apt to this discussion because of the console player base. That player base, which is tens of thousands of people a day mind you, have had a decade of auction house experience but much of it is not in MMOs. What happens in a PC MMO is less relevant to consoles than what happens in a console sports game. You can poo poo it all you want, but there 100% absolutely would be ESO billionaires on console who would hoard every available useful material and resell it at a mark up. The leg work - it takes hours to visit every trader now - is what stops this from happening today.

So yes, in one aspect you’re right. The current system does not work well for someone who just wants to sell a few items for 500 gold. You are not wrong. What you’re not grasping is that in a GAH environment on console that item would only be sold for 1 gold over vendor price because it would not be deemed worthy of being hoarded. Meanwhile, that item you want today that’s priced at a seemingly insane figure would double, triple or more in price over night. The GAH system only benefits billionaires and people who want stuff NOW! It would not in any way work for you and that 500 gold item.

Edit - by the way, selling any 500 gold item is a waste of time. I used to sell items like that and barely scraped by. Then I personally decided to focus on items that make thousands, not hundreds. It took some time to figure out but I got there and you can too.

Please let me know what item you’re actually talking about. If it’s anything that is even remotely good and you’re in XBox I’ll give you 10,000 gold COD for it. I just want to know what this mysterious item is because I have a sinking feeling you’re talking about something that you should probably vendor anyway.

What would be the benefit to that hypothetical billionaire of buyjngnup very single usable mat? Unless they are reposting at a market clearing price, their inventory will just grow, and grow, and grow, and grow...

So much fearmongering.

No, that’s EXACTLY what they would do. Buy every resin, or cornflower, or tempering alloy or whatever. Then they would repost it at a massive markup in seconds. These people are called snipers. They run scripts as well as doing it manually hitting “refresh” every few seconds to buy up anything that is posted lower and then they just put it back up.

I’m not fearmongering. I’m reality mongering. This happens 24 hours a day on console.

Why would this not happen in ESO? The honor system? If there are 100,000 resins available on an auction house for 7000 gold each it would cost 700 million gold for someone to do it WITH ONE PUSH OF A BUTTON! While I don’t have that kind of scratch, guess who does? The same people that lead the shady trader guilds we have now. Do you think they have the scruples to leave hundreds of millions of profit on the table? No, they’d decide to do it before someone else did. Those resins, congrats, they are now 15K each and that investor just has to wait for their money to roll in.

I know it’s a doomsday scenario but it’s exactly what would happen.

Edit - here’s a link for you. Just substitute the name of any soccer player with “sharpened Spinner’s sword” and explain to me why this wouldn’t happen.

https://tipsandtricksfor.com/fifa-fut-19-sniping-players-tips-guide/

Sure, looking for underpriced items to snipe and flip is a tried and true trading practice. It is a big part of the trading done now in ESO.

Where I disagree is how this would lead to a massive markup. Whoever spends all that gold to “corner” the market can’t just list it at whatever price. It has to be a market clearing price. Demand has to be taken into account.

There are many publicly traded companies with relatively low market caps. Let’s pool some money into a fund and just go buy every single share of a particular company offered on an exchange and corner the market for that stock. Sound like a good trading strategy? No, it is stupid, we can only sell it at a market clearing price. Sniping when we feel the price is low, holding to sell a bit later, sure, that’s not a bad strategy at all. That is what any good trader will do. No cornering there.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

tahol10069 wrote: »

Yep, as you can see, the reason why some people defend current system so aggressively can be seen in one post above me. They benefit from it, and they want to keep other people out from their closed market. Because open it is not.

I have made exactly 500 golds in last two days. I undercut like hell, but it doesn't help because my guild doesn't have a prime trading place. Today I haven't sold anything. Zero. I suspect it is pretty much the same for most small traders in my guild. I don't even expect to make big money, I would be totally content in making some money but it. Just. Doesn't. Work. For. Casual. Players. I tried to get in big guild but of course they are 1) full 2) not interested in someone who doesn't play this game as their second job. Also, their sale demands are such that I would feel even more like a hostige of this system.

I'm definitely pissed about people fear mongering, spreading lies and gas lighting in this very thread just because they are afraid they would lose their 500K weekly income. I much like to take part in economy in any MMORPG I've played, and I've always done it well enough for me. But in this game? It is impossible because the whole system is rigged so that it favors people who are not afraid to go full mafioso and imagine they are actually playing EVE Online.

But the worst aspect imho is how unfair and unequal this system is. It is the hard fact that if you are not in a major guild with the best trading spot you can forget the whole trading as nothing more than something that gives you few hundreds now and then. While you probably feed your guild so they can keep even the charity trader they somehow managed to get in somewhere middle of the swamp.

One thing that constantly is brought up is "bargains". Why you people think there are not bargains in central Auction House? I know I found tons of them. Have you people REALLY not played any other MMO's (and I'm not speaking about some FIFA here, those are totally different types of games so don't even try)? Like, haven't you really bought and sold anything in a working auction house? Haven't you seen how awesome it can be when you can just go and buy what you want in a 10 seconds? Ya'll act like someones with Stockholm Syndrome.

And with all the money we all are pouring to this developer, all our euros and dollars, they can't even make this assbackwards system work properly. You might get your items in your mail now...or after an hour. Or when you log in next time. The system might let you search for something...or not. Sometimes I can't even buy because lolz the server can't handel two buyers at the same time.

So wipe it clean. All. And build it from the scratch and toss this guild trader system to the pit it belongs.

Sigh ... you had me until you (like others) dismissed the “FIFA” economy. It’s extremely apt to this discussion because of the console player base. That player base, which is tens of thousands of people a day mind you, have had a decade of auction house experience but much of it is not in MMOs. What happens in a PC MMO is less relevant to consoles than what happens in a console sports game. You can poo poo it all you want, but there 100% absolutely would be ESO billionaires on console who would hoard every available useful material and resell it at a mark up. The leg work - it takes hours to visit every trader now - is what stops this from happening today.

So yes, in one aspect you’re right. The current system does not work well for someone who just wants to sell a few items for 500 gold. You are not wrong. What you’re not grasping is that in a GAH environment on console that item would only be sold for 1 gold over vendor price because it would not be deemed worthy of being hoarded. Meanwhile, that item you want today that’s priced at a seemingly insane figure would double, triple or more in price over night. The GAH system only benefits billionaires and people who want stuff NOW! It would not in any way work for you and that 500 gold item.

Edit - by the way, selling any 500 gold item is a waste of time. I used to sell items like that and barely scraped by. Then I personally decided to focus on items that make thousands, not hundreds. It took some time to figure out but I got there and you can too.

Please let me know what item you’re actually talking about. If it’s anything that is even remotely good and you’re in XBox I’ll give you 10,000 gold COD for it. I just want to know what this mysterious item is because I have a sinking feeling you’re talking about something that you should probably vendor anyway.

What would be the benefit to that hypothetical billionaire of buyjngnup very single usable mat? Unless they are reposting at a market clearing price, their inventory will just grow, and grow, and grow, and grow...

So much fearmongering.

No, that’s EXACTLY what they would do. Buy every resin, or cornflower, or tempering alloy or whatever. Then they would repost it at a massive markup in seconds. These people are called snipers. They run scripts as well as doing it manually hitting “refresh” every few seconds to buy up anything that is posted lower and then they just put it back up.

I’m not fearmongering. I’m reality mongering. This happens 24 hours a day on console.

Why would this not happen in ESO? The honor system? If there are 100,000 resins available on an auction house for 7000 gold each it would cost 700 million gold for someone to do it WITH ONE PUSH OF A BUTTON! While I don’t have that kind of scratch, guess who does? The same people that lead the shady trader guilds we have now. Do you think they have the scruples to leave hundreds of millions of profit on the table? No, they’d decide to do it before someone else did. Those resins, congrats, they are now 15K each and that investor just has to wait for their money to roll in.

I know it’s a doomsday scenario but it’s exactly what would happen.

Edit - here’s a link for you. Just substitute the name of any soccer player with “sharpened Spinner’s sword” and explain to me why this wouldn’t happen.

https://tipsandtricksfor.com/fifa-fut-19-sniping-players-tips-guide/

Lol you know cornering temporing alloy or resin won't work, why? Because some people do 15+ writs a day they get mats and those yellow crafting items. People can farm cornflower plus any other alchemy materials, they can refine raw material that can be farmed very easy. The person that tries to corner markets that can easily be replenished makes zero sense.

As much as people hate bots, bots will actually keep the market down as well to prevent this. Boys will always be here they barely get banned. They will keep people from raising prices too high because they will just keep it low to sell fast.

Spinners sword goes for x gold because someone buys all of them up as sharpened to re sell. Guess what?I don't like the price of the sharpened sword so what do I do? I go farm the sword in any trait and use one of my boxes full of transmutes I have waiting because I've run content and did my monthly pvp tier 1 rewards. So say everyone does what I just did, now that person's "market" just crashed because there is checks and balances already in place. 😁

Someone made a good point in commodities and stock exchanges: however, for something to be traded on one of these exchanges it must be listed, which means it must meet certain requirements. In particular, whatever it is has to be traded in high enough volume on the exchange to ensure liquidity of the asset. An AH-style market for which only crafting materials may be bought and sold could possibly be made to work. But for rarer items (such as motif pages and furnishing plans), a single point of entry would make it all to possible for someone rich enough to corner the market (or at least attempt to do so)

There are plenty of listed shares, especially Nasdaq shares, where total market cap is well within reach for someone to just buy everything offered. And still, it is a terrible trading strategy. Terrible.

A purposeful attempt to buy everything offered for a company is called a tender offer or an LBO, and it is not a trading strategy. It is a conscious attempt to take over the company, make certain changes, and flip the whole thing later, usually by taking it public again.

But certainly not by buying all the shares, marking them up, and trying to sell because you control the supply. This doesn’t even work with thinly traded penny stocks. Even there with restricted supply, people trying to corner those stocks are scam artists who have to pump and dump, meaning spread false rumors and research reports to pump up the stock with fake info (totally illegal btw), and even that is risky. The pump may not work and you are stuck with worthless inventory.

How are you going to “pump and dump” gold mats? Especially with new mats coming into the market every day. If you are trying to raise the price, you have to be willing to keep buying, and keep buying, and keep buying, and keep buying... and you can only ever sell at a MARKET-CLEARING PRICE.

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

With a GAH trading guilds will just change focus and not disappear. Consider this. What do all of the trade guilds do with their resources currently? Their focus is on mostly securing their spot. The gold they spend is then removed from the game. There are guilds that fight for each spot so it is very competitive. So where do those resources, gold and efforts get redirected with a GAH? One to two people may not be able to control the market but a group of 200 could. And it could potentially get to the point where you have to be in a guild to buy certain items

Also what would be the replacement gold sink. We pay listing fees currently and I can say that the amount of gold sunk by traders wont be covered unless you significantly increase the listing fees or have another sink.

The replacement gold sink could be what was mentioned in this thread at some point. Mounts, pets, cosmetics,............ a variety of things that should've already been there, but ended up in the crown store. We should have dozens of mounts available for gold. Sure trade guilds will change focus. Some will try to to stay trade guilds, but will eventually adapt to the new system, and take on another focus. By nature, we adapt as humans. We don't like changes at first, but we do adapt.

Ironic that ESO has a functioning economy that is different than all other MMOs yet you’re trying to argue that changing ESO’s economy to one that is essentially the same as everyone else’s would somehow constitute change.

Sounds to me that it’s probably you that needs to adapt to the world that has changed around you.

I wouldn't say a corrupt, inconvenient economy is truly functioning for everyone. People have been complaining about the trader system since shortly after it began. Someone in the thread mentioned other games have similar economies. For example, (mentioned within this thread)another game which was similar to ESO's trading vendor, but they use supplies instead of gold to fund it. This isn't a completely one of a kind deal. I didn't suggest an AH. I suggested an adjusted AH, a better version of what exists currently in some other games with limits to eliminate the current and many forms of corruption that occur in trading systems. Only a player abusing the current system wouldn't want a system free of corruption.

nice bait. How didn't I adapt?
DO you know me? No.
DO you know what I earn per day? NO right?

So explain how I need to adapt. Proposing a better system doesn't mean I didn't adapt. I've been here since Beta. Hang on I'll go get my popcorn while you try to answer that.Btw, this isn't personal. It's a set of valid questions.

They complained because it was different. People don't like change, so they want to change it to how they imagine it to be in other games. The same can be said of the people who like the system as it currently is, People don't like change. They've adapted to it.

As for the "adjusted AH", I do writs on 36 characters a day... you can be assured that I go out and buy more than 100 stacks of materials at a time, so that I have enough to do them. Daily/Weekly limits would only make it more difficult on me to do what I would like to do. Who is going to determine the "optimal" amount that can be bought for each and every item in the game? That is an unreasonable request, too much time and effort, with no way of determining a reasonable amount. What is good for a person with 1 character is certainly not good for somebody with 36.

People would still be able to get around those artificial limits, whether it's from coordination with guild mates, the creating of alternate accounts that can be used to do the same. There is absolutely no way to "fix" the problem of price fixing by adding in these limits. Under the current system there is a time constraint that limits a person, or group of people from doing this, not saying it can't be done, but it's more difficult with the current arrangement.

Others have brought up the issue of searching all those listings. ESO's "megaserver" is larger than all other MMOs, who split their player base into smaller groupings, so they aren't looking at as many listings. The guild stores already run like crap just looking at one high volume kiosk, multiply that by 50 to account for all of them... sounds terrible.

Yes, ZoS can change their mind, but they have directly stated that they like the current system, they designed the system to not be the same as other games (because ESO is a different MMO than other games). It's worked, the game doesn't have rampant inflation, it doesn't have massive price fixing. Yes, some very, very rare items, where there might be less than 10 for sale in all of Tamriel, have had their markets "cornered", but the staple items in the game, it is very, very difficult to do so, which is why they've remained remarkably stable over the last 5 years.

TTC is atrocious. 90% of the time the item isn't even there anymore. I think people put WAAAAAAAY too much stock in how much TTC affects the economy on PC ESO.

MM is only as good as the guilds that you're in (well... it's worthless right now until ZoS corrects the issues they have there), yet some people treat MM as a bible.

The gold sink has to be there. You honestly believe that ZoS is going to take things OUT of the crown store... lol

I sell a lot of stuff, I'm in 3 large trading guilds. I had to learn what sells in some guilds over the others, it's interesting to see the differences. It's nuanced, it takes a little bit of thinking. I don't do the flip game (unless, while shopping, I see something that is massively underpriced, like the time I got 200 corn flower for 1800 gold ).

(These are not just directed at the quoted post, just a summary of what I've read over the past 3 pages catching up)

People complained about the trader system for many reasons. Switching from chat to traders was a small upgrade, but not an efficient or good one. It is inconvenient. It is easily manipulated, and required add ons to be halfway efficient only. It was and is easily recognizable that something better could and should be in place. YOu'd need 2 accounts or 2 separate servers for crafting with 36 chars which is fine. The limit would be per server. It wouldn't effect a second account or server. Still with 2 accounts/servers a person would have double the amount to buy as others. Not many people will bother with 2 full accounts or more. It's a hassle. Worth less than just adapting to the new system. Some might yes but not many. Many people creating alt accounts want mules to hold their personal items and don't even level the chars. They don't want to waste the time on an alt account that they could be spending on the main account. It just isn't the norm for most players. Many still only have 1 or 2 chars they play. Not to mention, most people recognize already crafting writs as a source of money on 36 chars , if they aren't farming any of those mats themselves is very inefficient. That goes doubly so for master writs, which aren't worth quite as much to sell or craft anymore as in the past. So, it's unlikely you aren't farming any of those mats, unless you enjoy losing money, which is also unlikely. As I said unlikely, but not completely impossible.

I don't do the farming, other than the surveys I collect. Will I stop and pick up nodes as I'm doing other activities, yes. I can clear 15 million gold a month, and that's with buying all of the materials from guild traders. Your complete lack of knowledge and false statement here diminishes everything else you've said here. It is most assuredly NOT a losing proposition. If you are this ill-informed about this... I question your "knowledge" in the rest of the things that you say.

Putting an extreme case that is unlikely in the scenario that doesn't fit the majority is no reason for ZOS not to implement a better system. Most off the other things you are saying are unlikely too. It would be too much cost and effort to do that. Trade guilds would pretty much focus on other aspects of the game. It is unlikely you would get that many people together without anything leaking out about it, before they could do anything. Just like all of the things these guilds do now are common knowledge to seasoned players. This certainly isn't the first thread on the guild trader corruption asking for another system and it definitely won't be the last.

So, because my situation doesn't fit within your, juttaa77b16_ESO's system of "acceptability", I am basically told "**** you"

The system doesn't work. It is corrupt in multiple ways. This system has all of those things you said it doesn't. Many examples have been given in the thread by multiple people. I know you want the traders to stay, but staying like this without a massive overhaul or a regulated replacement system is just not good for this game. The only people supporting this current trade system are the people who are spreading the lies and corruption. Those people just keep coming up with scare tactics in these threads to make people, who don't know better, think it will somehow be worse. All of this drama just because they can't control and manipulate prices anymore.

So, you are accusing me of being a liar, of being corrupt, using scare tactics and that I control and manipulate prices?

No one specifically said ZOS should remove things from the crown store. They could put many future items which are similar into the game for gold. People have been complaining about that lack of items for gold for ages too. I actually likely seeing the traders around in the game. SO I wouldn't mind just a complete system overhaul, but the current system behind these traders has to go one way or another. Either overhaul or an adjusted AH.

You honestly believe that ZoS is going to put in a system of getting cosmetics with gold, rather than the crown store? You honestly believe their going to do something that will cut into crown store sales? You're naive.

But but but ... reasons!

No seriously, you are 100% right. I do 1/36th the work you do and generally clear 200-300K a week, and just like you, about 95% of my farming is either when I happen to see something on my way to a quest or when I finally feel like doing my surveys. And even then, much like you, occasionally I’ll still have to buy some materials and somehow still make a profit.

My brain would explode at the monotony of doing that many writs but I respect that you can, and I see nothing wrong with you playing the game how you want to play it. Good for you.