POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?

Disturbed_One

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Thanks. I surmised that after I started reading it...

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Alchemical wrote: »

The fact that, according to the poll, 64% of the game like the decentralized auction house should speak for itself. There shouldn't be on going months of debates 5 years after launch. Zenimax isn't going to change it now or ever, and the majority are content with that. It's not a flawless system, but it's a system that is heavily warded against the flaws of other systems.

When's the last time you heard of ESO's economy crashing? And I don't mean a temporary downswing in motif prices whenever an event happens, I mean "gold tempers have gone up 500% because Seylam Hlaalu sits at the auction house 20 hours a day sniping and relisting anyone who tries to under cut him." Or even better "I can't buy gold tempers because someone wiped them all out. All of them. Someone bought every single last one. Now the price of gold gear begins inflating exponentially because you can only get it from a small population of people". Oh oh and it also comes in the flavor of "Someone literally listed 100,000 tempers, in stacks of 1, at 60% of their going rate, flooding the market and causing them to become totally worthless". This is all stuff I've seen and done in other games where all I had to do was sit in one place, refreshing a window every few minutes, in order to make effortless cash.

You’re 100% right and the two people who are keeping this going are just going to accuse you of being the ESO Pablo Escobar. Don’t even bother.

tmbrinks

jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Trust me. You dont want a global AH. You're never going to find any gold mats for at least twice their current price and good luck ever finding a corn flower.

Sincerely,
an evil dirty flipper since PC launch

With an AH which is modified by ZOS with safeguards to prevent such things, that would never happen. I'm not for or against the AH, but even I see a way to get it done, which means the devs(with more xp than me ) probably have more ways than that to do it properly.

Just how would they have safeguards to prevent it? Limit amount of listings you can buy? There's more than enough flippers to make it happen anyway any flipper from the smol boi who sells for 100k to the big boi that sells for up to 50 mil per guild will do it. Put a fixed upper pricing for items? ALL useful items will end up only being sold at their max listings.

As long as there's a margin on an easy sellable item a flipper is gonna flip if they find it. I dont care if I only make 1g from reselling a wax, as said flippers gonna flip.

I honestly think anyone that advocates an AH is either a flipper in disguise or someone that dont quite understand how much gold we actually have or how many flippers there actually are and how low morals we actually have. Yes, I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a *** when it comes to trading, seeing an extra digit on my total gold would be like completely smashing all raid high scores.

A global AH will lead to either free items, meaningless gold and all traders being furious because ZOS put a stupid low price cap and thus ruined a part of their gameplay or prices will raise astronomical.

Disturbed_One wrote: »

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

There's no evil cartel, securing guild traders is a spanish soap drama. It's a warzone.

I like that... it is a warzone

Pevey

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Nothing nefarious? ok.This is just off the top of my head. So creating sister guilds every week and buying up all the spots, selling them to guilds who didn't win and g quiting to give it to them after you got paid isn't nefarious? The only boogeyman comments are coming from people who don't want the system to change because they profit most from the abuse of it.

Make sure you check your closet before going to sleep tonight... don't want that scary monster getting you while you sleep. I don't envy that you see evil, manipulation, deceit, treachery in everything.

You keep spouting the exact same dribble, the exact same thing over and over. Just because you say it over and over and over doesn't make it any more true.

Firstly, “dribble” is not the word you are looking for.

Secondly, these are not paranoid accusations. How can you be involved in trade guilds and NOT know that ghost guilds and such DO happen? And that there are trade guild alliances and groups of sister guilds that make it difficult for a single up and coming guild to really compete for one of those spots, because the alliance can direct funds from the whole group to the guild with the competition for its spot, fighting off any newcomers?

And IMO there is nothing wrong with guilds doing this under the current system. It is just good defense given the rules of the game as they currently exist. But to gaslight someone who has a negative opinion of it and treat them like they are only imagining things is not okay.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Pevey wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Nothing nefarious? ok.This is just off the top of my head. So creating sister guilds every week and buying up all the spots, selling them to guilds who didn't win and g quiting to give it to them after you got paid isn't nefarious? The only boogeyman comments are coming from people who don't want the system to change because they profit most from the abuse of it.

Make sure you check your closet before going to sleep tonight... don't want that scary monster getting you while you sleep. I don't envy that you see evil, manipulation, deceit, treachery in everything.

You keep spouting the exact same dribble, the exact same thing over and over. Just because you say it over and over and over doesn't make it any more true.

Firstly, “dribble” is not the word you are looking for.

Secondly, these are not paranoid accusations. How can you be involved in trade guilds and NOT know that ghost guilds and such DO happen? And that there are trade guild alliances and groups of sister guilds that make it difficult for a single up and coming guild to really compete for one of those spots, because the alliance can direct funds from the whole group to the guild with the competition for its spot, fighting off any newcomers?

And IMO there is nothing wrong with guilds doing this under the current system. It is just good defense given the rules of the game as they currently exist. But to gaslight someone who has a negative opinion of it and treat them like they are only imagining things is not okay.

And you’re ignoring the fact that what happens negatively in a global auction house has been described dozens of times in this thread.

And when your idea about daily caps - which sounded good at first - was debunked 2 different ways (people explaining how groups, or “cartels” as you like to call them) as people would band together to defeat them AND by a person calmly explaining how they actually do writs on 36 characters so they need these seemingly insanely high limits to not be a thing.

You’re ignoring these things. You’re repeatedly ignoring these things.

And you’re losing the vote.

tmbrinks

Pevey wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Nothing nefarious? ok.This is just off the top of my head. So creating sister guilds every week and buying up all the spots, selling them to guilds who didn't win and g quiting to give it to them after you got paid isn't nefarious? The only boogeyman comments are coming from people who don't want the system to change because they profit most from the abuse of it.

Make sure you check your closet before going to sleep tonight... don't want that scary monster getting you while you sleep. I don't envy that you see evil, manipulation, deceit, treachery in everything.

You keep spouting the exact same dribble, the exact same thing over and over. Just because you say it over and over and over doesn't make it any more true.

Firstly, “dribble” is not the word you are looking for.

Secondly, these are not paranoid accusations. How can you be involved in trade guilds and NOT know that ghost guilds and such DO happen? And that there are trade guild alliances and groups of sister guilds that make it difficult for a single up and coming guild to really compete for one of those spots, because the alliance can direct funds from the whole group to the guild with the competition for its spot, fighting off any newcomers?

And IMO there is nothing wrong with guilds doing this under the current system. It is just good defense given the rules of the game as they currently exist. But to gaslight someone who has a negative opinion of it and treat them like they are only imagining things is not okay.

drivel? is that the right one? I'm a math/science person... English was never my best subject.

Yes, there's some coordination between guilds. But as you said, it's within the rules as they currently are.

I guess I'm just pissed off at the poster, since he/she has directly called me a liar, a cheater, among a host of other things. So, I apologize for gaslighting them.

Pevey

I never proposed any idea about daily caps and would not be in support of that. Shot in the dark there.

Arrodisia

tmbrinks wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Nothing nefarious? ok.This is just off the top of my head. So creating sister guilds every week and buying up all the spots, selling them to guilds who didn't win and g quiting to give it to them after you got paid isn't nefarious? The only boogeyman comments are coming from people who don't want the system to change because they profit most from the abuse of it.

Make sure you check your closet before going to sleep tonight... don't want that scary monster getting you while you sleep. I don't envy that you see evil, manipulation, deceit, treachery in everything.

You keep spouting the exact same dribble, the exact same thing over and over. Just because you say it over and over and over doesn't make it any more true.

Firstly, “dribble” is not the word you are looking for.

Secondly, these are not paranoid accusations. How can you be involved in trade guilds and NOT know that ghost guilds and such DO happen? And that there are trade guild alliances and groups of sister guilds that make it difficult for a single up and coming guild to really compete for one of those spots, because the alliance can direct funds from the whole group to the guild with the competition for its spot, fighting off any newcomers?

And IMO there is nothing wrong with guilds doing this under the current system. It is just good defense given the rules of the game as they currently exist. But to gaslight someone who has a negative opinion of it and treat them like they are only imagining things is not okay.

drivel? is that the right one? I'm a math/science person... English was never my best subject.

Yes, there's some coordination between guilds. But as you said, it's within the rules as they currently are.

I guess I'm just pissed off at the poster, since he/she has directly called me a liar, a cheater, among a host of other things. So, I apologize for gaslighting them.

No one is this thread directly called anyone a liar. I said you had an extreme case and an entire system shouldn't be based on 1 or 2 extreme cases. Those were my exact statements. I questioned some of your details, but never said you personally were a liar. I don't get personal in the forums. I'm also still not for or against an auction at this time.

Some guilds are not doing things within the rules. Exploiting the g quit every week, was definitely not something ZOS intended to be happening in order to have a trade guild vendor.

Urigall

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Why not have both?

You've touched upon an issue thrown up by the one third/two thirds split in the poll - why not both? Is there any logical reason why trading has to be channelled SOLELY through the guild system?

If only 5-10% of voters wanted a global AH, there probably wouldn't be a case for setting one up. This poll seems to show around 33% (might have changed since I last looked) of voters like the idea of one - a one third/two thirds split.

The trading model doesn't have to be a zero sum game, whereby voter group x gets what they want, at the cost of voter group y losing out. Majority voting can be important where a decision on one option is essential. In this case, is it essential to maintain trading activity SOLELY through a guild system? If the answer is yes, then why is it essential?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Urigall wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Why not have both?

You've touched upon an issue thrown up by the one third/two thirds split in the poll - why not both? Is there any logical reason why trading has to be channelled SOLELY through the guild system?

If only 5-10% of voters wanted a global AH, there probably wouldn't be a case for setting one up. This poll seems to show around 33% (might have changed since I last looked) of voters like the idea of one - a one third/two thirds split.

The trading model doesn't have to be a zero sum game, whereby voter group x gets what they want, at the cost of voter group y losing out. Majority voting can be important where a decision on one option is essential. In this case, is it essential to maintain trading activity SOLELY through a guild system? If the answer is yes, then why is it essential?

The vote is currently split exactly down the middle. Half the players don’t want an auction house and half the players believe in Santa Claus.

tmbrinks

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Nothing nefarious? ok.This is just off the top of my head. So creating sister guilds every week and buying up all the spots, selling them to guilds who didn't win and g quiting to give it to them after you got paid isn't nefarious? The only boogeyman comments are coming from people who don't want the system to change because they profit most from the abuse of it.

Make sure you check your closet before going to sleep tonight... don't want that scary monster getting you while you sleep. I don't envy that you see evil, manipulation, deceit, treachery in everything.

You keep spouting the exact same dribble, the exact same thing over and over. Just because you say it over and over and over doesn't make it any more true.

Firstly, “dribble” is not the word you are looking for.

Secondly, these are not paranoid accusations. How can you be involved in trade guilds and NOT know that ghost guilds and such DO happen? And that there are trade guild alliances and groups of sister guilds that make it difficult for a single up and coming guild to really compete for one of those spots, because the alliance can direct funds from the whole group to the guild with the competition for its spot, fighting off any newcomers?

And IMO there is nothing wrong with guilds doing this under the current system. It is just good defense given the rules of the game as they currently exist. But to gaslight someone who has a negative opinion of it and treat them like they are only imagining things is not okay.

drivel? is that the right one? I'm a math/science person... English was never my best subject.

Yes, there's some coordination between guilds. But as you said, it's within the rules as they currently are.

I guess I'm just pissed off at the poster, since he/she has directly called me a liar, a cheater, among a host of other things. So, I apologize for gaslighting them.

No one is this thread directly called anyone a liar. I said you had an extreme case and an entire system shouldn't be based on 1 or 2 extreme cases. I questioned some of your details, but never said you personally were a liar. I don't get personal in the forums. I'm also still not for or against an auction at this time.

You can split hairs all you want... say what you want to convince yourself. Your self-righteousness is sickening.

Arrodisia

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Pevey wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Disturbed_One wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I think the thread poll is too limited in it's choices at the very least. With a poll of this nature most people answer one of the two, and in this case both choices are corruptible without safeguards. Maybe instead, we should first be asking if the people want changes to remove the corruption from the system, while asking them how they think it should be best removed by ZOS.

What corruption is there in the current system? People can list whatever they want at any price.

because that's what I think of corruption, as in somebody tells me I have to sell this item for this price, I've never seen or heard of that happening in my 3 years of playing

I haven't read the entire thread, so I apologize (again) if this has been said elsewhere

There are multiple admitted examples within this thread and in other threads. It's there. We all have busy lives. So I understand. Please feel free to read the thread, and catch up when you have time.

can anybody point me to the comments, or an idea of a page, or maybe summarize, if you have read them all... I really don't want to read 14 pages for a few examples that were given... that sounds too much like homework

I can understand lack of time, but I also lack time like most people here who work. You really can't expect everyone else to do it for you. It has been summarized at least a couple times. Having to write it over and over again for each person, who doesn't bother to read the thread, and others who misreads the thread is tedious as well, and I already did it a couple times today. So, I'm out of extra time as well.

well, I perused the thread (didn't read it all) saw things like cartels controlling the entire market? people who are sniping sales to make a profit, etc...

The idea that there's a cartel seems implausible to me... is it suspicious that the same guilds have the same traders all the time, perhaps, but many are there because they offer a lot of goods, and sell a lot. The idea there's a "evil cartel" manipulating everything seems like a boogeyman argument to me. I don't buy it.

As far as sniping sales, people do that at auctions/garage sales/etc... it's part of the fun of the system!

I have to pay dues (or sell enough in my trader) each week... It's 5k a week. We're not in a prime spot, but I don't think Vivec City is that bad, as it's a good crafting spot, but I've been able to sell pretty much anything I want there, and usually clear way more than that.. usually in the 100-200k/week range, just selling the things I don't need.

Thanks for making me peruse it.. I have a better idea, and am now more assuredly against the Auction House, particularly enlightening was the fact somebody said that ZoS actually wanted the system to be different from other MMOs. I like that. I like it's different and that it still works.

edit: typos

Be careful... if you sell your Corn Flower for under MM price.. the "evil cartel" is gonna send their goons and crack your kneecaps! /s

You're right on the boogeyman arguments. There's nothing nefarious going on, but a few here will try and convince you otherwise. Why? I don't know, perhaps they are the ones sitting on millions and want a global AH so they can control the market on something, but they know they can't do it on the current system, so they come up with a whole bunch of "reasons" for change.

Nothing nefarious? ok.This is just off the top of my head. So creating sister guilds every week and buying up all the spots, selling them to guilds who didn't win and g quiting to give it to them after you got paid isn't nefarious? The only boogeyman comments are coming from people who don't want the system to change because they profit most from the abuse of it.

Make sure you check your closet before going to sleep tonight... don't want that scary monster getting you while you sleep. I don't envy that you see evil, manipulation, deceit, treachery in everything.

You keep spouting the exact same dribble, the exact same thing over and over. Just because you say it over and over and over doesn't make it any more true.

Firstly, “dribble” is not the word you are looking for.

Secondly, these are not paranoid accusations. How can you be involved in trade guilds and NOT know that ghost guilds and such DO happen? And that there are trade guild alliances and groups of sister guilds that make it difficult for a single up and coming guild to really compete for one of those spots, because the alliance can direct funds from the whole group to the guild with the competition for its spot, fighting off any newcomers?

And IMO there is nothing wrong with guilds doing this under the current system. It is just good defense given the rules of the game as they currently exist. But to gaslight someone who has a negative opinion of it and treat them like they are only imagining things is not okay.

drivel? is that the right one? I'm a math/science person... English was never my best subject.

Yes, there's some coordination between guilds. But as you said, it's within the rules as they currently are.

I guess I'm just pissed off at the poster, since he/she has directly called me a liar, a cheater, among a host of other things. So, I apologize for gaslighting them.

No one is this thread directly called anyone a liar. I said you had an extreme case and an entire system shouldn't be based on 1 or 2 extreme cases. I questioned some of your details, but never said you personally were a liar. I don't get personal in the forums. I'm also still not for or against an auction at this time.

You can split hairs all you want... say what you want to convince yourself. Your self-righteousness is sickening.

Seems you are taking this personally for no reason. I'll just agree to disagree with you then. If you have any valid statements that are on topic I'll be happy to read them. If not, I'm done here.

Alchemical

Urigall wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

Why not have both?

You've touched upon an issue thrown up by the one third/two thirds split in the poll - why not both? Is there any logical reason why trading has to be channelled SOLELY through the guild system?

If only 5-10% of voters wanted a global AH, there probably wouldn't be a case for setting one up. This poll seems to show around 33% (might have changed since I last looked) of voters like the idea of one - a one third/two thirds split.

The trading model doesn't have to be a zero sum game, whereby voter group x gets what they want, at the cost of voter group y losing out. Majority voting can be important where a decision on one option is essential. In this case, is it essential to maintain trading activity SOLELY through a guild system? If the answer is yes, then why is it essential?

I think a 'neutral' store not run by any particular guild sounds good on paper, but I don't think these ideas can co-exist easily. Because trading in the current system requires a low bar of initiative in that you have to actually join a guild. The guild then collects a cut of the profits to pay for its trader spot. There's often additional 'dues' or 'raffles' or other shenanigans included, and aside from being a social group and all the warm fuzzy feelings that gives you, the collective effort of the guild helps to offset the cost of that trader. The privilege of trading is a large gold sink that is paid communally.

If there is a standard, neutral auction house that anyone can sell at, then who is paying for it? If no one is paying for it, then why have guilds that have to compete and bid for traders and sink huge amounts of golds into their spots? At that point it's just paying money for something you could get for free, it completely undermines one of the primary reasons to build and maintain a healthy trade guild.

If there was a 'neutral' centralized AH then the cut it takes per item sold would have to be much higher than the standard guild cut, since no one is paying for a spot. Just using it would have to be the gold sink itself, in which case why would you use something that cost more or sell at when you could just pop into guild finder and find a trading guild? I think it would also need to have a significantly smaller 'stack' limit you could sell, maybe no more than 10 things, to ward against flooding. I think then maybe people who don't care enough about trading to dedicate a guild to it, but would like to offload things occasionally, would have an outlet for that, but still left trade guilds as a better, more profitable venue for dedicated sellers.

And for what it's worth I'm NOT a dedicated seller, any accusations that I'm some kind of millionaire profiting off anyone's suffering is laughable when I'm in 4 RP guilds and I strictly sell green furnishing matters for 120 gold at our amazing trader in the middle of nowhere.

Urigall

Alchemical wrote: »

I think a 'neutral' store not run by any particular guild sounds good on paper, but I don't think these ideas can co-exist easily.

Thanks for the reasoned reply - much appreciated.

I'm currently looking into the AH system, if only to see whether it might work or not. I don't have a firm view - said as much in other replies to this thread - still don't know enough about it. Useful comments though. Exactly the type of info I was seeking.

Urigall

Increasing competition and resolving the "we lost our spot this week" annoyance is what attracted me the idea of an auction house; either global or regional. Along the way, I read up on the gold sink problem. It was mentioned a few times as an objection to moving away from the guild system. I'll just accept that regular gold purging is necessary. A large segment of the player base wants to keep the guild system (I understand the reasoning) Another (about a third of those who voted in the recent poll) would like an auction house of some description. I've read both sides of the debate, but am nowhere near well enough informed to say whether an auction house would be better, or whether it could co-exist alongside guilds.

Is there any mechanism that could square this circle, absent a global or regional auction house? Can the game facilitate a wider system of trading that might benefit aspiring/low level guilds, as well as help more players to sell their excess stuff? Maybe.

In addition to the guild spot bids, can we have a system whereby smaller guilds can bid for a listing that is accessible through the banker interface? At present, all players can access up to five guilds through the banker UI. Can the game accommodate an expansion of, say, twenty more guilds per zone? Ten? Five?

If this is possible, a lot more guilds would be trading, a lot more gold would be withdrawn from the game (fees for being on the banker UI) and a lot more stuff would be offered for sale. Smaller/new guilds would also find it easier to secure a trading outlet. The infrastructure is already in place. The determining factor would be whether the game software could handle the additional load.

If this system is feasible, and not too difficult to implement, it's worth considering. Guilds can continue - more guilds can get into the trading scene - fewer players find themselves without a trading guild facility - more stuff is made available for sale.

Jeremy

Mayrael wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

The Guild Trader system (while still very flawed) and has undergone significant improvements over the years. So obviously us complaining about it has not been in vain and has reaped results. So I don't believe anyone is kicking a dead horse here.

If we had listened to the kicking the dead horse crowd we'd still be operating under the original guild trader system which was so God awful it was barely even usable.

Discussion like this shows up every few months. In history of this forums people who want global AH have NEVER won any poll. This is beating the dead horse, because majority doesn't won't it and this never changed, so yeah...

As me and others have pointed out - this game already basically has an auction house if you include the use of popular addons. There isn't much difference other than the fact you have to run around a lot more to find the best prices.

So the minority as you put it who wanted an auction house have already made substantial gains in that direction. So the dead horse beating has been effective over the years. That's all I'm saying. It was the people who defended the original guild store model that seemed to have lost this argument because the system has changed dramatically over the years. And all of these changes have brought the system nearer to your standard auction house.

Stormahawk

I like the trader system, keeps the game interesting and it's actually possible to find deals. Plus it gives reason to visit other zones. If they got rid of traders I would probably never travel to other zones outside of a main city.

Tandor

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Alchemical wrote: »

The fact that, according to the poll, 64% of the game like the decentralized auction house should speak for itself. There shouldn't be on going months of debates 5 years after launch. Zenimax isn't going to change it now or ever, and the majority are content with that. It's not a flawless system, but it's a system that is heavily warded against the flaws of other systems.

When's the last time you heard of ESO's economy crashing? And I don't mean a temporary downswing in motif prices whenever an event happens, I mean "gold tempers have gone up 500% because Seylam Hlaalu sits at the auction house 20 hours a day sniping and relisting anyone who tries to under cut him." Or even better "I can't buy gold tempers because someone wiped them all out. All of them. Someone bought every single last one. Now the price of gold gear begins inflating exponentially because you can only get it from a small population of people". Oh oh and it also comes in the flavor of "Someone literally listed 100,000 tempers, in stacks of 1, at 60% of their going rate, flooding the market and causing them to become totally worthless". This is all stuff I've seen and done in other games where all I had to do was sit in one place, refreshing a window every few minutes, in order to make effortless cash.

You’re 100% right and the two people who are keeping this going are just going to accuse you of being the ESO Pablo Escobar. Don’t even bother.

So there are two people keeping this topic going. That would be you and which other?

Korah_Eaglecry

Mayrael wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

The Guild Trader system (while still very flawed) and has undergone significant improvements over the years. So obviously us complaining about it has not been in vain and has reaped results. So I don't believe anyone is kicking a dead horse here.

If we had listened to the kicking the dead horse crowd we'd still be operating under the original guild trader system which was so God awful it was barely even usable.

Discussion like this shows up every few months. In history of this forums people who want global AH have NEVER won any poll. This is beating the dead horse, because majority doesn't won't it and this never changed, so yeah...

Majority on the forums is not a reflection of the Majority when it comes to the game.

Sylvermynx

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

Arrodisia

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

The

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

Yes. I'm aware you and jayman quoted @majulook in separate commensts. That's is what I was telling the person himself. I'm not sure, why the system didn't send it to him, but that has been happening a bit as of late.

Sylvermynx wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

majulook wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Where do you get the 102,000,000 figure from?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6134366/#Comment_6134366

@Sylvermynx says you're the original poster of that figure(I read it. You are.), which also has no source, just your say so in it. That doesn't make it true. Do you have another link of something more official than your say so? Even if that number were true, but we see nothing that proves it, ZOS can add plenty of gold sinks into the game to compensate, and maybe achievements for having said items in their collection as well.


Even if your figures are just speculation, let's look at the math of the counter thoughts. If they added 1 single new mount into the game for 120,000g, that would already be 120k x's the entire server population who can buy it. Now add the factor that I suggested multiple and various items. I was thinking dozens of items(at the very least) every 12 weeks. Let's just put a low ball number and say only 1000 players bought that one item, although the likely number will be much higher, since people will welcome gold versions of mounts into the game with open arms. It was already a topic in the forums many times. Anyway, that already equals 120,000,000, which is over your speculated, at best, number. Now, add the dozens of other items and the gold sink ends up being much higher than the trade guild gold sink. Not to mention there are many otther things ZOS can do to create gold sinks. You're welcome.

@juttaa77b16_ESO - I quoted someone else (don't actually know now) and that was the person who provided the figure. I was not the original provider of the numerical figure at all, which was why I asked where it came from.... And of course it's not "true" which was why I asked.

Sometimes the quoting thing here isn't really very good.... Not sure how this turned out to be me stating something is true that I actually was questioning.

I was quoting Majulook there with the original comment. Your forth and back comments with him were included as reference, since you also asked where the number came from, at least as far as I read it, unless I misread it of course. I just thought he might want the chance to post an official source of where he got the gold sink numbers from, but he never did. The entire gold sink thing might have some solutions anyway. I was just curious where he got that information from.

Sylvermynx

@juttaa77b16_ESO - ah, gotcha. Thanks.

Ri_Khan

If it weren't for TTC, I wouldn't have used the guild traders at all. The system on it's own is a steaming pile of %#!&. Devs really need to stop depending on add-ons to fix their bad ideas. There should be an option outside of guilds and zone chat for players to sell their junk to each other. Until something like that happens, I will simply continue to avoid this aspect of the game.

tmbrinks

Ri_Khan wrote: »

If it weren't for TTC, I wouldn't have used the guild traders at all. The system on it's own is a steaming pile of %#!&. Devs really need to stop depending on add-ons to fix their bad ideas. There should be an option outside of guilds and zone chat for players to sell their junk to each other. Until something like that happens, I will simply continue to avoid this aspect of the game.

I don't get the obsession with TTC. It's hot garbage. You have to run an external program (potentially compromising the security of your system). The only data is from people who choose to upload it. Listings can be easily manipulated with it. Any "deals" are long gone before you get to the stall. The "prices" are listings, not actual sales.

ZonasArch

tmbrinks wrote: »

Ri_Khan wrote: »

If it weren't for TTC, I wouldn't have used the guild traders at all. The system on it's own is a steaming pile of %#!&. Devs really need to stop depending on add-ons to fix their bad ideas. There should be an option outside of guilds and zone chat for players to sell their junk to each other. Until something like that happens, I will simply continue to avoid this aspect of the game.

I don't get the obsession with TTC. It's hot garbage. You have to run an external program (potentially compromising the security of your system). The only data is from people who choose to upload it. Listings can be easily manipulated with it. Any "deals" are long gone before you get to the stall. The "prices" are listings, not actual sales.

You don't need to run an external program. I don't, exactly for security reasons. So I do it manually and it takes 5 seconds.

Evito

So, you're using TTC to make it as close to a real AH as possible, and then say the current system is great and yell at anyone who suggests having a real one?

I don't hate the system in ESO personally, but the whole 'system is great, just use TTC' argument is pretty dumb.

robpr

I prefer the inconvenience of current system over inflation global AH would make.
Guild store system makes harder to manipulate the prices and takes away millions of gold from the server every week. Without that there would be need to make some unpleasant gold sinks, like repairing gear or buying soulgems instead of getting them of bosses.

Ri_Khan

tmbrinks wrote: »

I don't get the obsession with TTC. It's hot garbage. You have to run an external program (potentially compromising the security of your system). The only data is from people who choose to upload it. Listings can be easily manipulated with it. Any "deals" are long gone before you get to the stall. The "prices" are listings, not actual sales.

From a buyers perspective, it's simple really and none of what you just listed even matters. I don't want to waste the time I have to play this game on loading screens and I sure as hell am not giving the gold I've earned to some filthy scrub flipper. All I do is check the TTC website for what I'm after, it tells me exactly where it's being sold and the price range it's being sold for. From my experiences the info they've given me for PC|NA has always been solid. I've always found what I'm looking for at a fair price. That is all. No obsession and no wasting time or gold.

tmbrinks

Ri_Khan wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

I don't get the obsession with TTC. It's hot garbage. You have to run an external program (potentially compromising the security of your system). The only data is from people who choose to upload it. Listings can be easily manipulated with it. Any "deals" are long gone before you get to the stall. The "prices" are listings, not actual sales.

From a buyers perspective, it's simple really and none of what you just listed even matters. I don't want to waste the time I have to play this game on loading screens and I sure as hell am not giving the gold I've earned to some filthy scrub flipper. All I do is check the TTC website for what I'm after, it tells me exactly where it's being sold and the price range it's being sold for. From my experiences the info they've given me for PC|NA has always been solid. I've always found what I'm looking for at a fair price. That is all. No obsession and no wasting time or gold.

I've had times I've use the TTC website to "look" up an item... I went to like 8 different stalls which said there were listings for... none of them had it. I decided to just check the other stalls in the "prime" selling areas, and I found what I was looking for. Unlisted on TTC. I wasted 45 minutes of time porting to 6 or 7 different locations only to find nothing, because the listings aren't up to date.

Prices are nearly always higher from TTC than they are from MM, because they aren't what actually sold, they are just what people think they are worth.

I'm curious how you've ALWAYS found what you're looking for... and nearly 75% of the time what I'm looking for has already been sold

Evito

You need to use your brain with TTC, if you're looking for say, mastic, and there's a stack of 50 last seen 12 hours ago that's very cheap, you have 0.01% chance of it actually being there.

If I ever use TTC I just search by last seen and go from there.