POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?

Ardan147 · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Wow..people are still fighting to try and make WoW's AH system a reality in ESO. No thank you.

It's already a reality on ESO. People use addons that let them shop for the lowest priced item - which is really all an auction house does. They also already use addons that allow them to see a global price history for items making all the guild stores share a common market anyway.

The argument against auction houses on ESO is really no longer tenable. The new argument is should people who don't use these addons have the same access to an auction house that those who do use them have. And I say yes.

If it worked so well no one would have started threads like that. TTC can help but if you try going for the cheapest items you will quickly find out that none of them are actually there.

It's more cumbersome to use than an auction house - but the results are the same. All the guild stores now share a common market and are priced accordingly. The only difference is running around buying the items requires more legwork.

That's why I say the developers should stop pretending they are doing something different (they aren't) and just implement a tried and true auction house at this point. That way everyone - even those who don't use or have access to these addons - can view price histories and purchase items at a lower cost.

No, it is NOT the same. With a global auction house, everything is right there in one place, ready for purchase. TTC might help you find stuff, but there is no guarantee that the item will still be in the store when you actually go there. For items traded in large quantities, it is pretty much a guarantee that the lowest price listing for that item will NOT be in the store, unless it was very, very recent. Trying to use TTC to find the lowest priced stack of cornflower being sold anywhere on the server, for instance, would be utterly futile. (Which is a GOOD thing because it prevents massive undercutting).

If you want a global auction house, go play World of Warcraft.

Androconium · June 2019

Nononononono.

Androconium · June 2019

When a solution that involves players paying zos is devised, then we'll get this.
Then everyone will regret all these polls a d discussions.

Apox · June 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

it wouldnt remove the gold sink at all. it'd be literally the same.

Yes it would, and no it wouldn't. Each week hundreds of millions of gold is poured into guild trader bids. Like it or not, without the bids those hundreds of millions would not be taken out of the economy so without some other way it will lead to inflation. I dont doubt that there are other ways, I'd just like you to suggest them then, seeing as you are one of those in support of removing the guild traders for a global AH.

about all im gonna reply to.

It wouldnt change a thing.

Where do guilds get the funds to buy their guild traders? Through taxing the sales on their own guild trader. This is why guilds require EITHER a donation weekly, or buying/selling a certain amount of gold worth off their trader. The tax cut the trader takes out pays your weekly donation for you.

The global auction house can and should do the same. The only minor difference is the auction house will remove a small number of gold with every transaction instead of one big ass weekly lump sum of gold.

Literally no difference besides the game doing it automatically instead of putting an absolutely insane amount of gold in one persons hand and the whole guild trusting them to "make it work"

Mayrael · June 2019

Jeremy · June 2019

Ardan147 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Wow..people are still fighting to try and make WoW's AH system a reality in ESO. No thank you.

It's already a reality on ESO. People use addons that let them shop for the lowest priced item - which is really all an auction house does. They also already use addons that allow them to see a global price history for items making all the guild stores share a common market anyway.

The argument against auction houses on ESO is really no longer tenable. The new argument is should people who don't use these addons have the same access to an auction house that those who do use them have. And I say yes.

If it worked so well no one would have started threads like that. TTC can help but if you try going for the cheapest items you will quickly find out that none of them are actually there.

It's more cumbersome to use than an auction house - but the results are the same. All the guild stores now share a common market and are priced accordingly. The only difference is running around buying the items requires more legwork.

That's why I say the developers should stop pretending they are doing something different (they aren't) and just implement a tried and true auction house at this point. That way everyone - even those who don't use or have access to these addons - can view price histories and purchase items at a lower cost.

No, it is NOT the same. With a global auction house, everything is right there in one place, ready for purchase. TTC might help you find stuff, but there is no guarantee that the item will still be in the store when you actually go there. For items traded in large quantities, it is pretty much a guarantee that the lowest price listing for that item will NOT be in the store, unless it was very, very recent. Trying to use TTC to find the lowest priced stack of cornflower being sold anywhere on the server, for instance, would be utterly futile. (Which is a GOOD thing because it prevents massive undercutting).

If you want a global auction house, go play World of Warcraft.

Why just World of Warcraft? Just about every MMORPG I have ever played had an auction house. Final Fantasy 11, Star Wars the Old Republic, Lord of the Rings Online, Guild Wars 2. Aion....I could go on and on. It would be more accurate to say go play just about any other game on the market. And there is a reason for that.

The only other high budget MMO I can think of in recent memory that attempted an economy without an auction house was Final Fantasy 14 - which ended up to be an abysmal failure and one they quickly corrected. Much like ESO's original guild trader idea was also an abysmal failure. Which is why they've had to change it significantly over the years and why nearly everyone uses addons to try and make it function as much like an auction house as possible. So if the guild trader system really was superior to its auction house counterpart then everyone would not be using these addons to make it function more like an auction house to begin with. That's called logic. Which is ironic - because I would be willing to bet many of the same people opposed to an auction house are the very same people who download and use these addons to make the guild trader system function more like an auction house. In other words: their opposition literally makes no sense whatsoever and is belied by even their own actions.

Your argument - which seems to be that these addons are so very different from auction houses because an item may be purchased before the person goes to the guild trader - is tenuous at best. The fact remains - people use addons to view a global price history to determine how much to sell their items for - which means all of the guild traders already share a common and competitive market with each other. So what ever evil manipulation you believe can occur through use of a central market it can already be done in the current system through use of these addons. So as I say - there is no legitimate argument against having an auction house on this game any longer. The logic against it has already been soundly crushed by the use of these addons.

But to respond directly to your last point - there is more to an MMORPG than just its in-game economy - nor is it the sole reason I play video games. Because believe you me if it was I would go play a different game. This game's ridiculous guild trader system has been a disaster from the start and is still light years behind its competitors who managed to produce a better system over a decade ago.

Jeremy · June 2019

Mayrael wrote: »

The Guild Trader system (while still very flawed) and has undergone significant improvements over the years. So obviously us complaining about it has not been in vain and has reaped results. So I don't believe anyone is kicking a dead horse here.

If we had listened to the kicking the dead horse crowd we'd still be operating under the original guild trader system which was so God awful it was barely even usable.

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Noblis01 wrote: »

Because some people can't control their "baser nature" a global auction house WOULD BE (not could be)
corrupted by exploiters.
Now, the bots just run around nabbing mats. Next, they will be buying up all of the stacks of X, then setting
a ridiculous price.
The new players will not be able to afford the basic items that they need to play.
People will quit the game because they can't play/stay alive.
Then the human sacrifices. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria !

But really, I've played 5 MMOs and all 5 had global auction houses. All of those games also had toons selling
items in chat non stop. It was common for those toons to get banned and then steal a player's account to bark
more "deals" in zone chat. Or tell you the URL of a company to buy stuff with real money.

Does anyone really want to pay 5ooo gold for just one Cornflower?
The current system is truly a free market system.

I played other mmos too and selling in chat is already a thing here. No one is stealing accounts from them, and bots is a totally differnt subject and was already dealt with here. Limited on a future AH were already proposed. So none of that would happen. Most of what's in those statements isn't realistic. Prices in AH games for common consumables is perfectly affordable. With the limits in place here, the prices will be very competive which is good for everyone except the current system abusers.

Sigh ... except that they wouldn’t. I truly enjoy your seeming good nature. I wish everyone else was that way, but it’s unrealistic. Some ESO billionaire would buy up everything they deem valuable and re-list it for whatever they wanted.

The current system abusers would have the capital to be at the top of that list.

With buying limits you’d just need some coordination (like now) but regardless the whole point is that no person or group of people should be able to do this at the push of one button.

You missed something multiple times in the thread. We already proposed limits. It would be nearly impossible to corner the market on any one item at any one time. That's bad for the current abusers but good for everyone else. They'll still be able to earn plenty of money, just not in a shady way. We already put an example of how a ten man team still couldn't do it.

It get less realistic with no trade guilds around for there to be many more than that without some kind of infighting occurring or other people finding out about it first.

Items like Spell Strategist infernos have maybe 20 listings on the market. You absolutely can corner it.

Then people would stop buying them. Price something too high and people would farm it themselves.

I would still ask if any of you who are so opposed to a global auction house have ever significantly worked with one in the past. (Not just brief interactions.)

The items are effectively locked out now since it is so hard to find where they are or what a reasonable price is.

Raising a bogyman is not a strong argument.

I’ve been playing games with GAH’s since the advent up EA’s Ultimate Team in 2009. I’ve bought nearly every copy of that, Madden, NHL, 2k’s NBA and most recently I bought a PS4 just for their Diamond Dynasty mode which is essentially the same thing.

All of them had GAHs. All of them are console games. I’ve also played Neverwinter (yuck) which has one as well. That’s 6 titles and roughly 30 to 50 various GAHs ON CONSOLE that I have invested time and way too much money into. In each they all follow the same pattern.

I have no reason to believe that the behavior in ESO on console would be any different.

@THEDKEXPERIENCE

Bro stop with your reference to EA. I have said it already in this thread and you completely ignored me trying to prove your point. Your point of EA auction system means nothing here. This is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME! What is Madden? What is FIFA? What is nhl? They are sports games that cash in on micro transactions.

If you do not understand the difference between the two genre of games then I don't know what to tell you. EA has million dollar tournaments throughout the year so of course people that play competitive on that level that have real life money on the line will manipulate a market on sports games that should have never had them in them in the first place. (I play the games so don't come at us saying they are fair lol)

On eso the market is basically run by a mafia on ps4na at least. How would you feel if you lived in a place were you tried to run a business and one person bought all the property around you and told you that you have 1 week to get out because they want your spot too?

That is essentially how the guild traders are on ps4na where people buy complete zones just to make huge profits and kick you out of your spots. This is supposed to be a gold sink right? Well it gets rid of the original persons gold of say 100k but then he sells it for 400-500k making huge profit. Then with that 400-500k they buy up 4 more spots for the 100k. Now he sells them and he makes 1,600,00-2,000,000 gold. Yep that is exactly what is happening but it's not a problem right? It brings players together right? How does he do this since you can only own one guild? Multiple accounts yep it is terrible on ps4na.

This is one huge reason we need a global auction house to allow everyone the ability to sell not just the richer guilds.

No, I ignored you because you’re wrong. Now you’re rude and wrong.

And it still won’t change that ZOS isn’t changing the market. Sorry.

Someone grab me a salt GIF.

@THEDKEXPERIENCE

LMFAO bro you sound really upset here I don't know if you are serious or not. You can't comprehend what I said and that what I said is wrong? Lolol do you need videos to talk about ea and how they rely on micro transactions to keep their revenue for the next broken game? How they never improve their actual gameplay but are the only game on the market so it forces people to play it that enjoy sports? Do you even remember before they introduced that system that you use to take actual real life teams to tournaments that everyone could play in if they had the skill, but then they turned it into a cash grab because in that mode there is no way a team of all 99s could lose to a team of 70s. You PAY TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE OVER PLAYERS THAT WOULD BE BETTER THAN YOU. That is pay to win my friend.

Now that we broke that down again what you are saying by claiming I don't know what I am talking about is that it would be okay for a 810cp to beat up on a fresh cp10 too in this game because that is the equivalent to what it is through ultimate teams. (In case people here don't play sports games)

We are also talking about people creating fake guilds to buy trader spots and take them away from guilds that want to.sell. we are talking about not having to travel around the entire world wasting a night trying to find specific items, we are talking about not having to join a trader guild to use a selling feature in the game, we are talking about not having to sit in load screens because during a "unusually long load time" message Everytime you travel makes you want to exit the game and go do anything but this game.

It would be an overall quality of life change that has proven to work time and time again while this trader system currently has shown while it is a cool idea on paper, it just did not work (on consoles due to lack of add-ons unlike pc) the way it was intended to. I know some PC players don't use add-ons, but a lot do and that is proof that a search function or an auction house would work because they basically already have it in the PC version of the game. On top of that it also proves that corn flower won't raise to 20k a piece either 😉

Jeremy · June 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

Noblis01 wrote: »

Because some people can't control their "baser nature" a global auction house WOULD BE (not could be)
corrupted by exploiters.
Now, the bots just run around nabbing mats. Next, they will be buying up all of the stacks of X, then setting
a ridiculous price.
The new players will not be able to afford the basic items that they need to play.
People will quit the game because they can't play/stay alive.
Then the human sacrifices. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria !

But really, I've played 5 MMOs and all 5 had global auction houses. All of those games also had toons selling
items in chat non stop. It was common for those toons to get banned and then steal a player's account to bark
more "deals" in zone chat. Or tell you the URL of a company to buy stuff with real money.

Does anyone really want to pay 5ooo gold for just one Cornflower?
The current system is truly a free market system.

I played other mmos too and selling in chat is already a thing here. No one is stealing accounts from them, and bots is a totally differnt subject and was already dealt with here. Limited on a future AH were already proposed. So none of that would happen. Most of what's in those statements isn't realistic. Prices in AH games for common consumables is perfectly affordable. With the limits in place here, the prices will be very competive which is good for everyone except the current system abusers.

Sigh ... except that they wouldn’t. I truly enjoy your seeming good nature. I wish everyone else was that way, but it’s unrealistic. Some ESO billionaire would buy up everything they deem valuable and re-list it for whatever they wanted.

The current system abusers would have the capital to be at the top of that list.

With buying limits you’d just need some coordination (like now) but regardless the whole point is that no person or group of people should be able to do this at the push of one button.

You missed something multiple times in the thread. We already proposed limits. It would be nearly impossible to corner the market on any one item at any one time. That's bad for the current abusers but good for everyone else. They'll still be able to earn plenty of money, just not in a shady way. We already put an example of how a ten man team still couldn't do it.

It get less realistic with no trade guilds around for there to be many more than that without some kind of infighting occurring or other people finding out about it first.

Items like Spell Strategist infernos have maybe 20 listings on the market. You absolutely can corner it.

Then people would stop buying them. Price something too high and people would farm it themselves.

I would still ask if any of you who are so opposed to a global auction house have ever significantly worked with one in the past. (Not just brief interactions.)

The items are effectively locked out now since it is so hard to find where they are or what a reasonable price is.

Raising a bogyman is not a strong argument.

I’ve been playing games with GAH’s since the advent up EA’s Ultimate Team in 2009. I’ve bought nearly every copy of that, Madden, NHL, 2k’s NBA and most recently I bought a PS4 just for their Diamond Dynasty mode which is essentially the same thing.

All of them had GAHs. All of them are console games. I’ve also played Neverwinter (yuck) which has one as well. That’s 6 titles and roughly 30 to 50 various GAHs ON CONSOLE that I have invested time and way too much money into. In each they all follow the same pattern.

I have no reason to believe that the behavior in ESO on console would be any different.

@THEDKEXPERIENCE

Bro stop with your reference to EA. I have said it already in this thread and you completely ignored me trying to prove your point. Your point of EA auction system means nothing here. This is a MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAME! What is Madden? What is FIFA? What is nhl? They are sports games that cash in on micro transactions.

If you do not understand the difference between the two genre of games then I don't know what to tell you. EA has million dollar tournaments throughout the year so of course people that play competitive on that level that have real life money on the line will manipulate a market on sports games that should have never had them in them in the first place. (I play the games so don't come at us saying they are fair lol)

On eso the market is basically run by a mafia on ps4na at least. How would you feel if you lived in a place were you tried to run a business and one person bought all the property around you and told you that you have 1 week to get out because they want your spot too?

That is essentially how the guild traders are on ps4na where people buy complete zones just to make huge profits and kick you out of your spots. This is supposed to be a gold sink right? Well it gets rid of the original persons gold of say 100k but then he sells it for 400-500k making huge profit. Then with that 400-500k they buy up 4 more spots for the 100k. Now he sells them and he makes 1,600,00-2,000,000 gold. Yep that is exactly what is happening but it's not a problem right? It brings players together right? How does he do this since you can only own one guild? Multiple accounts yep it is terrible on ps4na.

This is one huge reason we need a global auction house to allow everyone the ability to sell not just the richer guilds.

No, I ignored you because you’re wrong. Now you’re rude and wrong.

And it still won’t change that ZOS isn’t changing the market. Sorry.

Someone grab me a salt GIF.

@THEDKEXPERIENCE

LMFAO bro you sound really upset here I don't know if you are serious or not. You can't comprehend what I said and that what I said is wrong? Lolol do you need videos to talk about ea and how they rely on micro transactions to keep their revenue for the next broken game? How they never improve their actual gameplay but are the only game on the market so it forces people to play it that enjoy sports? Do you even remember before they introduced that system that you use to take actual real life teams to tournaments that everyone could play in if they had the skill, but then they turned it into a cash grab because in that mode there is no way a team of all 99s could lose to a team of 70s. You PAY TO GAIN AN ADVANTAGE OVER PLAYERS THAT WOULD BE BETTER THAN YOU. That is pay to win my friend.

Now that we broke that down again what you are saying by claiming I don't know what I am talking about is that it would be okay for a 810cp to beat up on a fresh cp10 too in this game because that is the equivalent to what it is through ultimate teams. (In case people here don't play sports games)

We are also talking about people creating fake guilds to buy trader spots and take them away from guilds that want to.sell. we are talking about not having to travel around the entire world wasting a night trying to find specific items, we are talking about not having to join a trader guild to use a selling feature in the game, we are talking about not having to sit in load screens because during a "unusually long load time" message Everytime you travel makes you want to exit the game and go do anything but this game.

It would be an overall quality of life change that has proven to work time and time again while this trader system currently has shown while it is a cool idea on paper, it just did not work (on consoles due to lack of add-ons unlike pc) the way it was intended to. I know some PC players don't use add-ons, but a lot do and that is proof that a search function or an auction house would work because they basically already have it in the PC version of the game. On top of that it also proves that corn flower won't raise to 20k a piece either 😉

Agreed.

It's one of those ideas that sound cool on paper - but then fail miserably when put into actual practice.

You're also 100% correct that PC users already have what amounts to basically an auction house through use of addons. The only difference really is players may have to use more way points to get the best prices. And all anyone who wished to "manipulate" the market by undercutting would have to do is sell super cheap at one of their guild traders and I can promise people would flock to that vendor to buy them as directed by their addons - and such purchases would show up on the addon price histories just like they would an auction house price history. So this silly argument that the current system is somehow more impervious to market manipulation than say an in-game auction house would be is just that, silly. Because there is no significant difference between them.

You can test this yourself but putting something of value up for sale for super cheap and watch how quickly it sells. ^^

Tommy_The_Gun · June 2019

Current system isn't great as it allows various exploits ("dummy" trading gilds, perma-taking one spot, market monopolozation etc. )
Imho biggest flaw of the current system is that it is very hermetic. The same players that "took" it over, are still there. There is no "player exchange". I do belive this is not something that developers wanted to be a "design feature" of this system, and there suppose to be certain player interchange.
But since that happens very rarely, newer players simply face a very difficult situation:
- Join a guild that takes very obscure spot, with almost no sales.
- Try to join big trading guild. Almost impossible for newer players as like I have said before - those guilds are very hermetic and they only accept exerienced sellers / ppl they know. So it is a closed system.

As a result, players that try trading for the first time very often "bounce off" and dont have good experience.

Solution proposal:
Introduce something similar to Steam Market. No auctions, just a price you set. The items bought in this system become account bound (to prevent re-selling it and keep the current trading system relevant, without any impact on it). Players will be able to sell (& buy perhaps ? ) limited number of items via this system (3 - 5 per week, per account). There is also a posibilty to add another boon for ESO+ (double limit so 6 - 10 items etc.). There is no need for a special NPC here, acces would be simply available via menu button.

Turelus · June 2019

Personally I like the broken up market and trade system, but I do think it needs some support like an official API for global searching, so that we can make our own sites/tools with correct information.

Hexvaldr · June 2019

I voted for trader barker, because many of us already use TTC search to find listed items and it would be nice to have it built in game. However, I personally support the localized guild trader system because it creates a trading mini-game that many find appealing. For a second reason, I've seen in other games how a globalized AH leads to severe price decreases on some items and also allows individuals with tons and tons of gold to influence the market more. Plus it adds RP flavor imo.

SantieClaws · June 2019

Something it needs to change yes but this one is not sure an AH is the solution.

Each guild has a limited number of members. Each traveller may only be in five guilds. There are a limited number of guild traders.

The system is therefore under significant pressure that increases with each new traveller that arrives.

That pressure can't continue as it is. It is already creating bad feeling towards the trading guilds who manage to hang on and keep going and have some level of success.

Having a limited number of traders also locks many people out of the trading system and limits the number of goods available for sale. We all lose out because of that.

You either need many more traders - or you need to increase the other two limits, which have both previously been ruled out.

You would need to add though a significant number of new traders and keep adding a significant number. It's not practical unless you perhaps introduce some large trading centres - cities with nothing but about 30 traders. Essentially trading instances. Like caravanessi. Places in the middle of nowhere where just traders gather.

Instead this one would like to see a placeable trader furnishing - therefore if you visit a home you get the option to purchase things the owner has listed there - either from just themselves or from their guilds. This would increase house visits and give every traveller the option to have access to some sort of outside world facing trader - even if they never want to be in a trading guild or any guild at all. It's a footstep on the ladder.

Given the 'open house' system within Essential Housing Tools it would be possible for anyone at all to make their house trader available to anyone else. Of course this one would hope one day an 'open house' system can be implemented within Tamriel itself without the need for an addon.

The trading system desperately needs reform of some kind though. It is at breaking point.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Uryel · June 2019

SantieClaws wrote: »

Something it needs to change yes but this one is not sure an AH is the solution.

Each guild has a limited number of members. Each traveller may only be in five guilds. There are a limited number of guild traders.

The system is therefore under significant pressure that increases with each new traveller that arrives.

That pressure can't continue as it is. It is already creating bad feeling towards the trading guilds who manage to hang on and keep going and have some level of success.

Having a limited number of traders also locks many people out of the trading system and limits the number of goods available for sale. We all lose out because of that.

You either need many more traders - or you need to increase the other two limits, which have both previously been ruled out.

You would need to add though a significant number of new traders and keep adding a significant number. It's not practical unless you perhaps introduce some large trading centres - cities with nothing but about 30 traders. Essentially trading instances. Like caravanessi. Places in the middle of nowhere where just traders gather.

Instead this one would like to see a placeable trader furnishing - therefore if you visit a home you get the option to purchase things the owner has listed there - either from just themselves or from their guilds. This would increase house visits and give every traveller the option to have access to some sort of outside world facing trader - even if they never want to be in a trading guild or any guild at all. It's a footstep on the ladder.

Given the 'open house' system within Essential Housing Tools it would be possible for anyone at all to make their house trader available to anyone else. Of course this one would hope one day an 'open house' system can be implemented within Tamriel itself without the need for an addon.

The trading system desperately needs reform of some kind though. It is at breaking point.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

That is an interesting idea, but would require some features added to the base game.

1 - When approaching a house, you can pop a windows that lists "public" or "open" houses. Houses you can visit just for the sake of visiting appear in one colour, those who also happen to have a home trader appear in another.

2 - There MUST be a way o see listings before entering the house. With the very lengthy loading times, it could take litteraly hours to visit every house trader in all instances of the same house.

Even though visiting any of your houses is always a pleasure for the eyes, when I'm shopping I want it to be fast.

aaisoaho · June 2019

For me, trading is just another subset of the game, another way to play and specialise. There's PvE, PvP and then there's trading. (in my PoV)

The evil and corrupt trade princes are like the evil elitists of PvE. You need a dedicated group/guild to get into veteran trials - is it evil for them to set requirements? You need a dedicated guild to get into trader stall - is it evil for them to set requirements?

On the other hand, there's some analogies to be made between trading and PvP. In PvP, there are gankers - something that many non-PvPer is afraid of and then there are 'flippers' in trading. (flippers are those people who buys low and sells high, flips the items for profits) Both of these playstyles are hated for playing the game in a way they enjoy. Is it wrong for them to play the game like they do now? And if it is, why?

And no, I'm not one of those "corrupt traders", I play every part of the game when I feel like. I enjoy hunting for bargains and trying to get gold, I enjoy surfing zergs on Cyrodiil and I enjoy group content in PvE.

Urigall · June 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

We are also talking about people creating fake guilds to buy trader spots and take them away from guilds that want to.sell.

This is possibly the biggest issue with the current system. If potential sellers are being excluded (less popular guild spots being bought up, or rich guilds using clout to keep top spots) there is no free market as regards competition for guild spots - it's an oligopoly at best. Capital accumulation by bigger guilds has effectively closed off top spots for aspiring traders, although a few, smaller outfits might get a good spot on occasion.

This effect probably has little bearing on selling prices though. The issue is whether the player base is comfortable with a few, big traders hogging the top spots.

Tyralbin · June 2019

I have mentioned this before.

When/if guild housing comes out there should be an option to buy a guild trader that would be situated outside the house that all can visit.

There would be a list of guilds that have bought that house and you just pick which guild you wish to visit

jainiadral · June 2019

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Current system isn't great as it allows various exploits ("dummy" trading gilds, perma-taking one spot, market monopolozation etc. )
Imho biggest flaw of the current system is that it is very hermetic. The same players that "took" it over, are still there. There is no "player exchange". I do belive this is not something that developers wanted to be a "design feature" of this system, and there suppose to be certain player interchange.
But since that happens very rarely, newer players simply face a very difficult situation:
- Join a guild that takes very obscure spot, with almost no sales.
- Try to join big trading guild. Almost impossible for newer players as like I have said before - those guilds are very hermetic and they only accept exerienced sellers / ppl they know. So it is a closed system.

As a result, players that try trading for the first time very often "bounce off" and dont have good experience.

Solution proposal:
Introduce something similar to Steam Market. No auctions, just a price you set. The items bought in this system become account bound (to prevent re-selling it and keep the current trading system relevant, without any impact on it). Players will be able to sell (& buy perhaps ? ) limited number of items via this system (3 - 5 per week, per account). There is also a posibilty to add another boon for ESO+ (double limit so 6 - 10 items etc.). There is no need for a special NPC here, acces would be simply available via menu button.

This could be interesting

One of the things I'd hoped to do eventually was to craft and sell low-level sets for new players for low prices. I remember when I first started playing, I couldn't find anything useful in the guild stores. Every piece of armor was either the wrong level, not part of a set, or CP 160. Crafting mats at low levels were super expensive while high level stuff was dirt cheap. I didn't have enough traits researched to do anything useful.

Since chat's an utter cesspool, I can't do what I'd love to, which is to open myself up as a for-free crafter here and there so new peeps can get started. Can't do that in the marketplace either unless I'm willing to tolerate a huge level of stress and annoyance and obligation.

Urigall · June 2019

jainiadral wrote: »

I remember when I first started playing, I couldn't find anything useful in the guild stores. Every piece of armor was either the wrong level, not part of a set, or CP 160. Crafting mats at low levels were super expensive while high level stuff was dirt cheap. I didn't have enough traits researched to do anything useful.

I often see requests in guild chat to craft, say, training gear for a...hmmm...lvl 32 char. The requests sometimes come from chars who are lvl CP160+ Some players don't seem to bother levelling crafting or researching traits. Fair enough. I wonder if a dedicated outlet for sub-lvl 50 gear might be viable. Something like "we can make any set to order - any trait, any level - here are the prices" Maybe not.

jainiadral · June 2019

Urigall wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

I remember when I first started playing, I couldn't find anything useful in the guild stores. Every piece of armor was either the wrong level, not part of a set, or CP 160. Crafting mats at low levels were super expensive while high level stuff was dirt cheap. I didn't have enough traits researched to do anything useful.

I often see requests in guild chat to craft, say, training gear for a...hmmm...lvl 32 char. The requests sometimes come from chars who are lvl CP160+ Some players don't seem to bother levelling crafting or researching traits. Fair enough. I wonder if a dedicated outlet for sub-lvl 50 gear might be viable. Something like "we can make any set to order - any trait, any level - here are the prices" Maybe not.

To be fair, if you're not paying for ESO+ and the crafting bag, crafting's got to be a logistical nightmare. Research is a huge PITA that requires tons of checking day after day, especially once you get to five or six traits. And the limits are stiff and harsh. If I had limited time like a lot of players, I'd probably have skipped it myself. Especially if I was interested in PvP or other parts of the game besides overland questing.

The problem with sub-50 gear and mats is that they're probably not profitable under the current system. Putting a whole level 16 Julianos set on the market at maybe 200 gold per piece isn't going to pay your trading guild dues or help you meet your sales quotas. In most AH systems, I've known of people who niche specialize in low-level and mid-level gear and they do really well. Here, it probably wouldn't work, which is why you see absolutely nothing for sale.

The trading system really doesn't serve entire segments of the player base at all. Especially those who need a boost.

That's one of the things I like about Tommy's idea-- having a little niche you can carve out on your own might allow for non-max-profit potential. Or a sub-50 market like you're suggesting? That could work too. I'd like to see trading actually serve the ESO playing public for once.

Mayrael · June 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

The Guild Trader system (while still very flawed) and has undergone significant improvements over the years. So obviously us complaining about it has not been in vain and has reaped results. So I don't believe anyone is kicking a dead horse here.

If we had listened to the kicking the dead horse crowd we'd still be operating under the original guild trader system which was so God awful it was barely even usable.

Discussion like this shows up every few months. In history of this forums people who want global AH have NEVER won any poll. This is beating the dead horse, because majority doesn't won't it and this never changed, so yeah...

Killum · June 2019

.Edited - someone else made the same point.

Urigall · June 2019

jainiadral wrote: »

In most AH systems, I've known of people who niche specialize in low-level and mid-level gear and they do really well. Here, it probably wouldn't work, which is why you see absolutely nothing for sale.

I knew very little about the AH system until a day or so ago. I was talking to juttaa about it on this form and decided I needed to know more. Still reading up, although what I've seen so far is very interesting.

You're probably spot on about selling sub-level 50 gear only being viable through an AH system. Can't see it working through a trader, mainly because requirements would probably be so specific, pre-manufacturing would be risky. The only way it might...might...work is by advertising through a global AH. Not sure if that would be possible - say, place an advert rather than offer the items for sale.

We would only find out if the system was was viable once it was tested. I do think there might be a market for the right gear at the right price. Crafting gear doesn't cost that much, even upgraded to epic level, so it wouldn't have to sell for high prices either. Sell a lot of it and frequently. Gear is bound once equipped, so there would, presumably, be a recurring demand.

srfrogg23 · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

We really need to separate this entire forum into PC and console answers, but since that’s never going to happen let me scream like a child to get everyone’s attention ...

THE PC AND CONSOLE ECONOMIES ARE COMPLETELY SEPARATE THINGS THAT HAVE ALMOST NOTHING IN COMMON!!!!

CONSOLES DO NOT HAVE ADD-ONS! CONSOLE PLAYERS HAVE VERY FEW MMOS AVAILABLE SO MANY OF THEM COME FROM SPORTS GAMES OR OTHER GENRES THAT YOU WOULD NOT NORMALLY ASSOCIATE WITH MMOS!!

WHAT YOU MAY HAVE SEEN IN AN ECONOMY FOR SOME “HARDCORE” MMO HAS LESS TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENS TO ALL GLOBAL AUCTION HOUSE ECONOMIES THEN WHAT HAPPENS ON CURRENT CONSOLE GAMES!!

IF A GAH WAS INSTALLED THE MARKET WOULD BE DESTROYED FOR ALL UPGRADE MATS AND NO, A VAST MAJORITY OF CONSOLE PLAYERS AREN’T FARMING ENOUGH TO SUPPORT IGNORING THE MARKET!!!

Sorry for yelling. I know many of you are coming at this from a good point but I’ve been battling this for years and across a half dozen console GAH economies. All they do is trivialize good gear and make great gear insanely expensive.

I would argue that the console economy is already broken. Introducing a GAH would take the place of all the addons that PC players are using.

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Apox wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Apox wrote: »

it wouldnt remove the gold sink at all. it'd be literally the same.

Yes it would, and no it wouldn't. Each week hundreds of millions of gold is poured into guild trader bids. Like it or not, without the bids those hundreds of millions would not be taken out of the economy so without some other way it will lead to inflation. I dont doubt that there are other ways, I'd just like you to suggest them then, seeing as you are one of those in support of removing the guild traders for a global AH.

The global auction house can and should do the same. The only minor difference is the auction house will remove a small number of gold with every transaction instead of one big ass weekly lump sum of gold.

Literally no difference besides the game doing it automatically instead of putting an absolutely insane amount of gold in one persons hand and the whole guild trusting them to "make it work"

ESO is already removing a small amount of gold with every transaction, 4.5%. 1% listing fee and 3.5% tax fee. In addition to that hundreds of millions of gold on bids each week are also removed. You are suggestion to remove the hundreds of millions of gold and replace it with... what exactly? A tax rate? That is already there ....

Tandor · June 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

This thread was a great success. It was very interesting to read all the comments and the discussion. As for the poll, I think the players have clearly spoken: with only 34% for an AH and a whopping 52% in favor of the current system, it seems our guild traders are here to stay. Zos is not gonna waste a lot of time and resources on a new system that most players dont want. Maybe Zos wouldnt even spend time or resources on it even if players wanted it, but that's a whole different debate....

However, you'll have noticed that a good many players who vote for the current system do want to see substantial improvements to it.

Most times this subject has come up the only reason that an option to keep the current system has done well is because the only offered alternative is an auction house. In the rare poll that has had an additional option of an improved system based on the existing one that option has triumphed. Very few players indeed want the present system left as it is.

In particular, buyers want centralised searching and sellers want a level playing field so that console users have all the addon benefits that PC users have, and without which most PC sellers would be up in arms.

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Tandor wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

This thread was a great success. It was very interesting to read all the comments and the discussion. As for the poll, I think the players have clearly spoken: with only 34% for an AH and a whopping 52% in favor of the current system, it seems our guild traders are here to stay. Zos is not gonna waste a lot of time and resources on a new system that most players dont want. Maybe Zos wouldnt even spend time or resources on it even if players wanted it, but that's a whole different debate....

However, you'll have noticed that a good many players who vote for the current system do want to see substantial improvements to it.

Most times this subject has come up the only reason that an option to keep the current system has done well is because the only offered alternative is an auction house. In the rare poll that has had an additional option of an improved system based on the existing one that option has triumphed. Very few players indeed want the present system left as it is.

In particular, buyers want centralised searching and sellers want a level playing field so that console users have all the addon benefits that PC users have, and without which most PC sellers would be up in arms.

I definitely agree with improvements, just not a global AH, no way. This poll was inspired by another thread discussing whether to get a AH or not.

Console users will never enjoy the addon benefits PC users have. It will never happen, forget about it. It would be up to ZOS to implement addon functionality in vanilla game. But seriously, look at how many years it took them to change the guild store interface to something that slightly resembles awesome guildstore, and then it is still sorely lacking core functionality such as search for unknown motifs and recipee. So no, console users are lost in that respect, only choice for them if they want addon functionality is to switch to pc.

Since pc and console dont share the game world talking about a level playfield is irrelevant.

Animal_Mother · June 2019

I’d like to see an AH for actual auctions. No store instant buy, but a 3-5 day auction with a minimum price.

It costs gold to post items to it and if the item doesn’t sell... guess what, the gold isn’t returned. The item was priced too high to begin with thanks for wasting time. Shoot, make the cost of listing the item 10% of it’s opening bid price.

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Animal_Mother wrote: »

I’d like to see an AH for actual auctions. No store instant buy, but a 3-5 day auction with a minimum price.

So if a seller would like to buy some things they have to wait 3-5 days to actually get the item they bought? you cant be serious.

Marginis · June 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

This again?

No.

My reasons behind spoiler for length.
There's lots of reasons why not.

For one, ZOS designed ESO for a more decentralized market. One of their concerns at launch was that in an Auction House situation, it becomes very easy to acquire the beat gear very cheaply. They also wanted to encourage the different pricing at different guilds, specifically citing that you could go to different guilds to find cheaper prices.

Second, the spread out nature of ESO's guild traders makes it harder to manipulate prices over the whole market for a long time. Not impossible, but harder. When I see market manipulation happen, and I've got examples of it in mind if I need to explain further, it's typically for a few, rare items and only for a relatively short span of time. That's because most people simply can't put the effort in to stay on top of ESO's spread out market for more than short-term profit. Auction houses and centralized listings make that much easier to find items and control pricing, and that's actually something we see with TTC and even MM with price manipulation and TTC allowing players to quickly buy up bargains for resale.

Third, the current guild centric system benefits the social system of the game, which is primarily focused around Guilds. One of the strongest suggestions in favor of a central auction house is that then players don't have to join guilds or use zone chat to trade. The counter argument is that ZOS desires players to be in guilds for many reasons, and just made it easier for you to find a trading guild that fits your needs with Guild Finder.
A. guilds, even trading guilds, are a place where players can form strong social bonds and do a variety of content together. My first trading guild did PVE and PVP and offered help with crafting, and is a large part of why I PVP for the Pact now. As many group dungeon players can attest, runs done with guildies are usually better than random PUGs. I've never been in a trading guild that didnt have some social interaction, whether dungeon runs, trivia contests, or just an Auction, so I can see where even serious trading guilds help players engage in the social aspects of an MMO RPG.
B. Trading guilds are a huge gold sink for the economy because of the weekly trader bid. Gold sinks are essential if ESO's economy is to avoid extreme inflation, and the individual sale taxes dont account for near as much gold as those weekly trader bids. Players wanting an Auction House need to consider what alternate gold sinks they want to introduce to combat inflation.

So I think there's a strong argument to be made that the status quo serves ZOS' needs and desires for ESO better than an Auction House or centralized listing system.

My challenge for anyone arguing in favor of the Auction House or globalized system is to answer there points?
A. How is your desired system better at maintaining ZOS'original desire to prevent powerful items from becoming very cheap and easy to get?

B. How is your desired system better at preventing large scale, long term market manipulation?

C. How is your desired system better at providing the social and economic benefits that guilds bring to ESO?

Thank you. A lot of people don't understand this issue. There are some ways to continually improve guild traders, but the reasonings behind not having a global auction house are, both in my opinion and so far in practice, solid.