POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?

tmbrinks · June 2019

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Mintaka5 wrote: »

Trade guilds need to be abolished. Too exclusive, and I feel that it's just one big cartel of guilds controlling the whole ESO economy. Have you seen some of these guild houses? They are fully stocked with everything, and mind you all that this house is not owned by the guild, only the GM. Seem illegitimate, and I am of the belief that GMs of these trade guilds are taking advantage of the rest of the player base. Public market NOW!

What is exclusive about the free trade guilds? Most are well below member cap. You saw a couple weeks ago, the big Raw'lka traders got bought out of their spots, they aren't invincible. You want the high traffic trader, pay for it, it's the same in the business world.

I have a "guild" house, with all the attunable stations, all mundus stones, everything that would be in a top end trading guild "guild house". I have never once managed a trade guild, I've never even been the GM of any guild (other than for about 2 minutes in a raid guild because the GM needed to change the order of their guilds). It's not particularly difficult to do, so I fail to see how anybody is being "taken advantage" of.

The vendors in Rawl Ka were bought up, but it certainly wasn't done only by some random free trade guilds with no requirements and too little money in the bank to do it. That takeover was backed. It took major cash flow and there's only a handful of guilds including their fly by night sister guilds that can do it in such a precise way as that was done. This is exactly what a game economy doesn't need.

As far as decorating the guild houses goes, a lot of it is done by donations. That doesn't constitute any kind of shady stuff in itself. So I do agree with that.

I agree it took major cash flow... especially to guarantee that they got all 5 locations, otherwise the "joke" would have been lost to some extent. That said, I could make an honest bid, and probably take over one of those locations with 1-2 months worth of daily writs (I do them on 36 characters), done by just one person. Yes, it's expensive, but it's not exclusive. Get a dedicated group of 15-20 people to do that, and they could easily be there.

The "good" thing about the takeover, is that the gold used to do that is now out of the system. Even if ZoS wanted to implement a global auction house, they would need to come up with another gold sink, as the bidding system is probably the largest one in the game.

max_only · June 2019

I didn’t vote because I don’t care about making in game money in any game. Auction house or not.

For my purposes I will be unaffected. I don’t buy mats. Motifs are bought up and resold all the time by the big guilds anyway. AH will just let them do it faster. The only benefit I would get would be selling twink pvp gear.

Also this system forced me to join a guild. I wouldn’t have joined one otherwise. Joining a guild has been for me the best thing for longevity and incentive to log in. When I miss guild nights it’s frustrating, even if all we’re doing is killing World Bosses and Public Dungeons I could solo.

yodased · June 2019

All systems. Every single one is exploitable to a degree so if any claims that the current system or the proposed global system are based on non-exploitation, they are moot.

To answer the question as to why you didn't see this in other games, its because other games have things to sink gold into and don't have people with literally unlimited funds. There are people that exploited their way into the billions, and *** may be trillions for all we know. The problem is we have no idea what the currency evaluation is across the player base.

The facts are getting murky but I as I see it we have this:

GAH:

Pros -
Convenient and efficient
Allows for perceived easier entry by any player
Removes social barrier of joining a guild to sell
Reduces overall time to find the specific item you are looking for
Allows for potential reduction in overall cost of goods from increase of supply

Cons-
Easily manipulated with unlimited funds
Actual higher barrier of entry because of competition is now server wide instead of 2500 people with 30 items each per location.
Reduces social interaction from guilds
Removes a reason to revisit lower level areas
Removes a huge gold sink from the game

Current system:

Pros-
Lower actual barrier of entry for sellers
Less overall competition for sellers
Difficult to manipulate effectively
"Smart" Buyers can find under priced gear
Allows for the market to be used to profit
Entices Social interactions from guild joining
Gives reasons to visit lower areas

Cons-
Very inefficient to find one specific item
Time consuming and confusing for new people
Hard to know proper sales levels and goals
Limited competition in an area

Arrodisia · June 2019

The pros and cons of the AH could be somewhat moot as well, since some players have already proposed modifications to a traditional AH, (within this thread, and others) which would make items much harder to monopolize. It would make an in game AH way more attractive to the player base, than what is stated in the pros vs cons list in this thread. Not to mention, the current system is not difficult to manipulate as was stated in said list. That statement is, unfortunately, not true. There are, also, no barriers to entry in an AH system, since anyone can walk up to the AH, at any level, and post an item to sale with or without being in a guild. The limit wouldn't necessarily be 30 for sale. It could be lower or higher. Also, buyable limits could be set. There are just too many assumptions of continuity within this list imho. So, some of the pros and cons in the list are quite skewed. For all we know ZOS might actually be reading this stuff, and create the best AH ever in gaming history. Well, keep hope alive and all.

srfrogg23 · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.

-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.

The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.

If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.

It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.

Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.

So I ask you, what would you prefer?

Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...

Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?

It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.

In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.

What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.

If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.

Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!

Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.

But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?

Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.

Eh... that stuff is already off the wall expensive, though. Besides, with the constant influx of new postings, the price will continue to drop. A GAH is not a static market where people take turns between posting low, buying everything, then reselling high.

Also, EVERYTHING that is being sold will be located in a single location. That will also drive down prices due to an easy visualization of volume.

I disagree with your assessment.

Ardan147 · June 2019

How many threads do we need on this? It is not going to happen.

The guild store system serves two purposes: By having over a hundred separate stores, it helps to prevent the sort of speculative attacks that one could make against a single, global marketplace for the entire server. What one could do in one place with the latter, would require going all across Tamriel and visiting every single guild trader in the game, which would be extremely time consuming, and no doubt other people would be able to get to some listings first. The second is that it serves as a dynamic gold sink that keeps the economy stable, as when there is more gold around it will result in larger trader bids which means more gold removed from the economy. Take away guild traders and the bidding for them, and all that excess gold will need to be removed in other ways. And these other ways might not be at all pretty (I ended up quitting Diablo III due to the absolutely punitive repair costs; and if it got to the point where any gold I was making all got eaten up by the cost of repairing my damaged equipment, I would quit this game too.)

A global auction house, where everything for sale on the entire server was visible and immediately purchasable in one place, would mean (among other things) that if you wanted to sell any common item (regardless of how in demand it might be), yours had to be the lowest price on the entire server. Which results in people constantly undercutting one another. Where as for rare items, if someone is determined enough they can just sit there and buy them up as soon as they are listed, especially if they believe that they can resell it for a higher price. What will inevitably end up happening is that there will be a few exorbitantly rich players controlling the market, while everyone else is grinding endlessly to accumulate any gold at all; and then there's the question of what gold sinks end up hindering this grind and to what extent, or if there is just rampant inflation that makes the gold they do get ever more worthless.

There is no cartel. There is no handful of guilds controlling the entire market. Because any one player can be selling out of at most five guild traders at once. And save for the maximum of five guilds that they are in for which they can view their guild stores at any bank, in order to buy from any other trader requires traveling to that trader. You can search for an item on TTC to see where it might be, but there is no guarantee that once you get to the trader it will still be there (it might have been gone well before you searched for it even). For any item traded by the stack in large numbers, forget it, the lowest priced listings will be long gone from the store, likely before the listing is ever seen by anyone on TTC. This fragmented nature of the market keeps prices from crashing, as the time spent on trying to find the absolute lowest priced listing for a relatively common item would completely negate any savings in gold.

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Ardan147 wrote: »

How many threads do we need on this? It is not going to happen.

I am actually for the current system, I dont want an AH. And I agree on your points, good argumentation, thank you for that. I just made the poll to satisfy my own curiosity about the opinion of the community.

Rowan_Winterhaven · June 2019

I'm sick of running to every merchant and finding that they don't have what I need. Like fishing bait, for fraksake. I don't care about making stupid amounts of gold, I just want to be able to support my in-game lifestyle. Maybe I'm weird in wanting to spend my in-game time playing rather than going from trader to trader to trader to a new zone and another trader and another trader and another, lather, rinse, repeat, ad nauseam. It's frustrating, and it's an utter waste of my time.

BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY · June 2019

while i don't have extensive experience playing this game, i do have quite the experience with many many MMORPG's.

with that being said...

it is in my experience that things such as auction houses, or market boards, tend to the bane of a games virtual economy. there are very few games who do it correctly, and that is only because it is a heavy part of the game. best example i can get from the top of my head is going to be RuneScape. although, there seems to be some controversy around this and i haven't played in 3+ years.

well, again in my experience, player stalls and the like always seem to be the best way to go.

Sylvermynx · June 2019

@Rowan_Winterhaven - if you're on PC/NA, I will gladly send you ALL THE BAITS I will never use. Free.

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.

- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem

Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.

- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.

Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.

-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.

Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.

The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.

If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.

It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.

Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.

So I ask you, what would you prefer?

Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...

Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?

It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.

In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.

What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.

If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.

Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!

Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.

But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?

Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.

If this were the case in more hardcore games (because this is very casual friendly) we would see this. I played in many MMORPG and not once have I see it get as bad as everyone is making it seem.

As long as items are farmable people have a price they would pay before they farmed it themselves. If it came down to it people would farm spriggan chest and transmute it before paying 3,000,000, gold for a perfect piece. Same with alcemy mats people will just go gather it themselves.

Games dating all the way back to year 2000 on console used a global ah and it was perfectly fine, easy for the buyer and the seller. There was never any of this search the entire realm wasting 3 hours of your life for a few items. We just had 1 global auction house located in many different areas to prevent lag.

Ff11, ff14, wow, EverQuest online adventures, DC universe are just some of the games that did it and it was great.

Hell I would settle for a new npc in each city you can talk to that has the search feature like they just implimemted, that would let me ask him for let's say spriggan chest. He then would tell me every guild trader that has it and a price and I manually travel to the zone to get it. You can keep the trader system but allow people to not sit in "unuasually long load times" 20+ times.

The ultimate team type modes of Madden, FIFA, NHL, NBA and MLB all have this massive problem. As you stated ESO is a pretty casual game for MMO standards.

What type of game is the most casual?

This is a rampant issue across all console games with a global auction house. I’ve played each of the ones I’ve listed and seen it in all of them since before ESO was even released.

I cannot speak about the PC community but I’m an expert on the console community. Rich players would run roughshod over the GAH before you could even blink.

Big difference in your examples. You stated all sports games and they all cost irl money to succeed at them. Ultimate team is a scam every year that they use to make massive money after you purchase the game. All of those games are also tournament driven games where people will pay crazy money as the payout for winning a tournament is crazy high real life dollars. Those experiences you have on games where a auction house should t exist is a whole issue of its own.

The current trader system is being manipulated and being bullied by guilds right now. A normal thing people say is if player x has 15billion gold he can ruin the econemy on a global auction house. Well there is nothing stopping that player from doing it now lol. So I really never get that argument either.

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Rowan_Winterhaven wrote: »

I'm sick of running to every merchant and finding that they don't have what I need. Like fishing bait, for fraksake. I don't care about making stupid amounts of gold, I just want to be able to support my in-game lifestyle. Maybe I'm weird in wanting to spend my in-game time playing rather than going from trader to trader to trader to a new zone and another trader and another trader and another, lather, rinse, repeat, ad nauseam. It's frustrating, and it's an utter waste of my time.

Most guild stores have fish bait for sale for nothing, at least on NA PC, I guess you are on another platform that for some reason people are not selling these fish bait?

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

The current trader system is being manipulated and being bullied by guilds right now. A normal thing people say is if player x has 15billion gold he can ruin the econemy on a global auction house. Well there is nothing stopping that player from doing it now lol.

Then why aren't those players doing it then? Could it be because what you say is not true?

midnightwanderer · June 2019

The current system keeps trade participants economically viable and prevents ultimate futility.

CynicK · June 2019

Well I been reading the posts and voted so i give my opinion. I would like an AH definetly actually when i bought the game and found out there were no AH i told myself why i had bought this game. I liked a lot to buy and sell in the auction house in other games, in wow i made my first gold coin buying cheap linen or wool and selling at market price at the AH the thing is i liked to do that it was part of the game for me although some people have criticized people that do like i did, it has a risk but i liked it i sold a bit cheaper than market price it was not that i put a monopoly there like some have said but i liked trading at the AH.
I have to say that eso is different form wow in that all objects are your level so AH loses a bit of its uses because most of the merchandize is just 160cp but for materials and that i thing it remains useful think that loot is generous in this game many people cannot sell because they do not form part of a guild a thing i do not like at all and is my major complain to the sysetem we have and i think that with so many dayly bags with treasures and chests if everyone could sell that on action hause prices would be cheep for many items and there will be always the cheap ones that some would buy and then resell more expensive but i think that the big quantity would do fixing prices impossible if you are not looking for something very especific.
Resuming for me playing with fake money is also part of the game and not having an auction house removes for many people like me enjoing playing with the gold i earn and earn more trading.
The system with guilds with fees minimum sales and all is a bit too much for me at this point that i am starting just to try to sell some junk, besides if i am in a guild i want to pve and pvp with them not just trade.

Bryath · June 2019

I don't love the current system but the gold sink is crucial. Without it, there would have to be other ways to remove a lot of gold from the system... like 20%+ taxes on AH sales, and/or large weekly taxes on housing, and/or fees for using wayshrines and teleports.

Sylvermynx · June 2019

Bryath wrote: »

I don't love the current system but the gold sink is crucial. Without it, there would have to be other ways to remove a lot of gold from the system... like 20%+ taxes on AH sales, and/or large weekly taxes on housing, and/or fees for using wayshrines and teleports.

That's the only good reason for it, IMO.

ezio45 · June 2019

fine with trading guilds just want to see zos fix the problem with fake/ shell guilds

Aznarb · June 2019

Juju_beans wrote: »

No thanks. A single AH leads to item monopolies and price fixing.

This ^
So, no thx.

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

The current trader system is being manipulated and being bullied by guilds right now. A normal thing people say is if player x has 15billion gold he can ruin the econemy on a global auction house. Well there is nothing stopping that player from doing it now lol.

Then why aren't those players doing it then? Could it be because what you say is not true?

Lol maybe because they are making too much money off selling guild trader spots for 400-500k each (pictures have been posted on this forum in other threads for proof)? Or maybe they are getting so many donations to support their trader? Or maybe the guild leader of these guilds are getting nice income just from their 400+ member guilds selling items? Maybe there's a reason why there is "sister" guilds with a level 7 as the guild master (in multiple guilds) meaning profit must be really good if they are creating multiple accounts? Or maybe the fact that some spots are completely empty of items in 1 zone just so they can mark up items? Just like on launch day of elswyr for console the new location was owned by all the guild sellers trying to sell them to actual guilds that want them?

Got it a global ah can't be better than this one we have now 😉. It's not like people are manipulating it right now 😉. Everything is 100% fine............

Jeremy · June 2019

If you download addons this game's guild trader system already functions basically like an auction house. So what ever evils you believe an auction house causes - they are already in the game currently.

In other words: a credible argument against adding an auction house on this game went out the window as soon as players started using addons that let them check global prices. The only legitimate argument against adding auction houses was that it in theory would fragment the market and avoid a global pricing system. That is no longer the case. In short: people who use addons are already participating in a global and centralized market. The fact it's scattered across different hubs doesn't change this fact. So there is no good reason at this point not to add an auction house for the rest of us who don't use these addons.

Swifigames · June 2019

I don't think the Auction House is gonna fly to be honest. But it's fine, there are guilds with traders regularly.
With guild searching and applications newly added I don't think they want to take away from the progress being made there.

Something similar that I think would be interesting though?
Anyone who's played Heroes of Might & Magic III knows there were Trading Posts scattered throughout certain maps, and you could build one inside your city walls if you chose the Stronghold. You could offer gems, crystals, sulfer, etc. for a small bit of gold or even low level units.
Now, I know this isn't HoMM, but I like the idea of doing something with the large stash of craft bag resources that I (and certainly others) are sitting on wondering why we need so much. Specifically provisioning materials and perhaps trait gems...do I really need 1.3k Almandine, 1.2k Bloodstone, 1.3k Surilie Grapes, or 1.7k Yeast? Even if I were to offer these materials in a trader for a small portion of gold I'm not sure how many people are that keen on making a purchase of these materials.
Now, maybe down the road these specific items will become useful in some way and make this fanciful idea pointless (if it's not already). But I like the idea of some type of [Trading Post], available to all users just like a wandering merchant would be.

What does it do? Simple enough, you just throw down a stack of Wheat and in exchange for your 200 Wheat you could perhaps trade it for something you need MORE than the Wheat, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a provisioning ingredient but for the sake of this idea let's say you needed some Poultry or Potatoes? Easy, offer your Wheat in exchange for some of the latter.
The stock could even rotate so as to always offer something different. Maybe you go to the Trading Post and find there isn't currently anything you have an interest in at all at that time and you'd just have to wait until some other time to see the offerings.

I think it'd be cool. Maybe it could be like the Luxury vendors, only appearing once and a while with different things up for grabs. I cannot currently think of anything better to do with my multi stacks of Barley

It would have to be limited to provisioning ingredients and maybe trait items though...nearly every other material item(s) have value in traders it seems.
But like I mentioned, maybe one day some of these items will become more valuable...like Flour for example. Was there really a need for so much before the Furnishing update? I'm actually not sure, but boy am I burning through it now!

Anyway, just an idea. Thanks for reading.

Ysbriel · June 2019

WTB and WTS works like a charm on ZONE

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

Ysbriel wrote: »

WTB and WTS works like a charm on ZONE

Yep much like zone chat with a headset "use to fly" before console got text chat. Yep always fun times to play a game that makes you feel like a caveman when we have better technology these days 😂😂😂😂😂

navystylz_ESO · June 2019

Juju_beans wrote: »

No thanks. A single AH leads to item monopolies and price fixing.

It's interesting you think this doesn't happen in ESO? It's not hard to Tamriel Trade Centre buy up the items that are actually worth it to control.

navystylz_ESO · June 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yes, I want one. This current system is totally inaccessible without messing with guilds, and I don't DO guilds. Especially for something that should be available to every player. This is the most whacked system I've ever run across....

Fortunately you don't have to use the system here to make gold. If that was the case, I wouldn't still be playing.

This is probably the strongest argument in favor of an Auction House or globally accessible market...and I still don't think its going to change anything.

Simply put, it benefits ESO as a game for players to be in trading guilds, and thus the incentives to get in a trading guild will continue.

A. Guilds are important to the social interaction between players. Maybe there are some super serious trading guilds where there's no social activity whatsoever, but all the one's I've been in had people grouping up to do PVE, dungeons, PVP, or even just chatting or getting together for the guild auction.

B. The weekly trader bids are a huge gold sink which helps keep the inflation down for the whole economy. The individual sale taxes or zone chat mail fees are steady, but don't make up that much of it. If guild traders are replaced, expect some new, major gold sinks to make up for that loss.

C. The competition between guilds keeps monopolies fairly rare and means that rare items don't become devalued.

So in short, if you don't do guilds, you've got options to trade. But it benefits ESO's social life, economic health, and the overall experience for most players when players are in guilds, and particularly in trading guilds. Plus, ZOS just made it easier to get into a trading guild that's right for each player with the new guild finder. So I expect ZOS to continue to incentivize players to join trading guilds. Auction Houses and globalized options do not offer the same social benefits, nor do they offer the same sort of economic benefits ESO has run with in the trading guild system, at least as far as I can tell.

So while different options might benefit individual players, I expect that ZOS is taking the long view of the entire game and the majority of players.

A. So important to the game to be social and make use of an obnoxious system that is harder on guild leaders than people who will just use Tamriel Trade Centre anyway. But not too important that the whole world was nerfed into mind-numbingly easy content because people shouldn't be forced to have to group with players to do quests.??

B. This is probably one of the best arguments. The amount of gold sink. But the need to sink so much gold in in part due to the coolest things you'd want to spend gold on are not sellable, and the Crown Store is a gross example of so many things that can't be earned by normal play or sold. The other side is for the same reason I'm not compelled to explore this massive and gorgeous world is because there is nothing of worth doing it. Best things locked behind crown store, or dungeon content (which I don't disagree with), or WBs or dolmen, or overland chests that allow you to run around and farm so easily there isn't much of a market, except for people who don't realize how easy it is to do that and then upgrade their own stuff.

C. Guild don't make monopolies. Whales do. Whales will be whales regardless. Just because some may be in guilds to help promote feeding their riches, doesn't necessitate any guild loyalty as if it's the guild cornering markets and not just those whales that live for that kind of thing. Said whales will not be hindered by having to hop through a wayshrine to get an item of value to control market. Tamriel Trade Centre use is very easy, and anyone who has used it enough knows how fast a thing can be snatched up still, even without being one central place to do it.

In conclusion, very conflicting game designs show this game doesn't know if it wants to promote the need to be social or not be social. Which is the running issue of ESO altogether. Doesn't know if it wants to be a single player game or an MMO.

tahol10069 · June 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

For sheer convenience -- SWTOR has a really decent model actually with a UI that helps you find what you want.

I was a pretty dedicated trader in SWTOR. I made millions (and spent it all too lol) by crafting and selling materials. After that, ESO's system has been a shock for me, and not a pleasant one. I refused to join a trading guild for a long time, now I'm a member of one (1) with a trader in Wrothgar.

It is pure horse crap. Guild is good, and doesn't put any pressure on you, but it is STILL pure horse crap. I hate this system with passion.

I hate buying anything because it is pure pain in the backside if you try to find something specific. I hate selling because lets face it, THIS market RIGHT NOW is monopolized by big trading guilds that practically own the best traders. Flippers run around collecting cheaper stuff from less popular traders and selling it higher in their popular traders. And at the same time, people defending this system claim that this is exactly what isn't going on but would happen if we would have an Auction House.

Sometimes I feel like I'm in some alternative reality where facts are suddenly turned upside down. Then I remember that many of these people aren't actually acting in good faith, they are just twisting the facts because they are the ones benefitting from this messed up system we have right now.

One global Auction House is a fair system. Everyone can sell, and everyone can buy. It is egual. But there are people who don't want "egual" because unequal benefits them. They have learned how to game the system.

I could go on and on about this but I feel it is futile. It is like people have never played anything else than ESO, and make up some insane theories of rising prices and monopolies just to justify this insane system we have right now.

And socialization...oh please. Being in a trading guild has nothing to do with socialization. It is a forced situation, and I feel like a prisoner even if my jailer is not the worst out there.

navystylz_ESO · June 2019

ZonasArch wrote: »

AH is a stupid idea, favors inflation and market manipulation by guilds(yes, it does, I've done it before, and it ruins games economies) and it'll get rid of the gold sink.

Silly, brainless idea.

This. Can we please stop pretending anyone who uses the trader regularly is not using Tamriel Trade Centre. You get some people that don't know about i

juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »

I used to believe guild traders were a good thing for the game, but unfortunately, I changed my mind.

Once I was able to peek behind the curtain of multiple trade guilds, I saw a large portion of the system is corrupt. Many GM's have voiced their opinions, and are against the abuse in the current system, but if they play clean, they lose gold and even lose their vendors. Non trade guild players, and most small to medium sized trade guilds, rarely, get items for a decent price, because almost every item ends up filtered through the main group of Craglorn vendors, and their dozens of sister guilds first. They, in turn, jack the prices sky high, way too high for most every day players to afford.

Besides, the bidding and G quit drama, they also, take advantage of the websites, which includes, but is not limited to making sure lower prices in the TTC are very hard to find. They do this by repeatedly spamming their wares onto the sites over and over burying any cheaper items, while they send the guild lacky out to buy it up before anyone else can find it.

Another issue is players with dual and triple accounts, who buy up their own over priced items to fluff sales and fluff the average price of the items. That's just he beginning of this fiasco, because if your guild tries to rise up and sell things cheaper, The main craglorn groups send a newly created sister guild over with a ridiculously op bid to leave you with no spot, unless you cheat the system like they do. They don't even want or need the spot. They just make sure your cheaper wares aren't there. Oh and I almost forgot something. You have GM's from one guild, approaching other GM's from another to pay them off to sabotage their own guilds. I could go on, but I rather not. This whole thing is just as corrupt as it gets, and I hope ZOS does something about it.

Since we already have a lot of massive problems within this system already going on, I highly doubt a couple changes can fix this mess. For these reasons above and many more, I support a complete switch to a server wide auction house accessible either from our guild stores or from the area banks. Then to kill 2 birds with one stone, ZOS can maybe make the purchased crown items sellable in the AH, as well, once the timer for refund (which could be implemented) has expired. These are just my humble opinions and suggestions to make trading a more pleasurable experience for all. ZOS will do as they see fit with the system.

Wow. I knew something was going on behind the scenes. But didn't realize it was this... cartel.

navystylz_ESO · June 2019

yodased wrote: »

Also, craglorn guilds? Really? Is this 2016? Who cares about Craglorn? Thats like 2 maybe even 3rd tier now, you wanna talk about rwal'ka or wayrest, mournhold or the newest dlc ok we can talk about that, but craglorn? Thats old news

Last free zone that tons of players hang out in while grinding xp or looking for groups for Trials and doesn't require buying DLC, Chapter or ESO Plus? Um, no. I don't think Craglorn is old news. You can tell by the guild names there this isn't true. Though, I agree it's not the only important hub.

bol · June 2019

I vote for centralized AH, or at least a third option an in game broker between different guild traders. I have read most comments and reasons people have to not want a centralized AH but I don't really see the point. Maybe on consoles it makes sense but not on PC. Here is why:
- Currently everyone is (or at least should be) using the add-on TTC which basically transforms the current guild trader system into a centralized one, but with the annoyance of having to use a third party app and a web page and teleport to the correct trader afterwards. It is just a waste of time for players having to do it this way.
- The said add-on basically removes all the pro's people have for a decentralized system that we have now (that is why I said it PC only)

So ZoS would need to remove the possibility for add-on like TTC. Possibly even MM. But then the trading will just stop or at least go down in scale as a lot of people (myself included) will just not bother searching for items they want. Why spend 1h going around the world from trader to trader searching for an item if you can spend the 1h farming it and not only possibly get it for free but also earn a lot of money while doing it?

The only problem I see with centralized AH is the actual implementation. With the experience of how things get developed in this game its just gonna crash and not work most of the time.