POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Inspired by a thread about AH and guild traders I make this poll, thank you for your vote!

VaranisArano · June 2019

This again?

No.

My reasons behind spoiler for length.

There's lots of reasons why not.

For one, ZOS designed ESO for a more decentralized market. One of their concerns at launch was that in an Auction House situation, it becomes very easy to acquire the beat gear very cheaply. They also wanted to encourage the different pricing at different guilds, specifically citing that you could go to different guilds to find cheaper prices.

Second, the spread out nature of ESO's guild traders makes it harder to manipulate prices over the whole market for a long time. Not impossible, but harder. When I see market manipulation happen, and I've got examples of it in mind if I need to explain further, it's typically for a few, rare items and only for a relatively short span of time. That's because most people simply can't put the effort in to stay on top of ESO's spread out market for more than short-term profit. Auction houses and centralized listings make that much easier to find items and control pricing, and that's actually something we see with TTC and even MM with price manipulation and TTC allowing players to quickly buy up bargains for resale.

Third, the current guild centric system benefits the social system of the game, which is primarily focused around Guilds. One of the strongest suggestions in favor of a central auction house is that then players don't have to join guilds or use zone chat to trade. The counter argument is that ZOS desires players to be in guilds for many reasons, and just made it easier for you to find a trading guild that fits your needs with Guild Finder.
A. guilds, even trading guilds, are a place where players can form strong social bonds and do a variety of content together. My first trading guild did PVE and PVP and offered help with crafting, and is a large part of why I PVP for the Pact now. As many group dungeon players can attest, runs done with guildies are usually better than random PUGs. I've never been in a trading guild that didnt have some social interaction, whether dungeon runs, trivia contests, or just an Auction, so I can see where even serious trading guilds help players engage in the social aspects of an MMO RPG.
B. Trading guilds are a huge gold sink for the economy because of the weekly trader bid. Gold sinks are essential if ESO's economy is to avoid extreme inflation, and the individual sale taxes dont account for near as much gold as those weekly trader bids. Players wanting an Auction House need to consider what alternate gold sinks they want to introduce to combat inflation.

So I think there's a strong argument to be made that the status quo serves ZOS' needs and desires for ESO better than an Auction House or centralized listing system.

My challenge for anyone arguing in favor of the Auction House or globalized system is to answer there points?
A. How is your desired system better at maintaining ZOS'original desire to prevent powerful items from becoming very cheap and easy to get?

B. How is your desired system better at preventing large scale, long term market manipulation?

C. How is your desired system better at providing the social and economic benefits that guilds bring to ESO?

Karm1cOne · June 2019

Another auction house poll? The system is fine, but needs some work to make it more universally accessible, such as:
Disbanding guild gives trader to 2nd highest bidder.
More stalls in busy zones.
Maybe a ranked trader bid, highest x# of bids get spots instead of individual stalls.

Everyone keeps complaining of no auction house, but dont realize how much more average traders would be screwed... or maybe they do...

Bigevilpeter · June 2019

the current system is unfair and causes a lot of market play and price riggings, kinda like real life, but this isnt real life though

Juju_beans · June 2019

No thanks. A single AH leads to item monopolies and price fixing.

Sylvermynx · June 2019

Yes, I want one. This current system is totally inaccessible without messing with guilds, and I don't DO guilds. Especially for something that should be available to every player. This is the most whacked system I've ever run across....

Fortunately you don't have to use the system here to make gold. If that was the case, I wouldn't still be playing.

Elwendryll · June 2019

Untold thousands have tested their mettle against Guild Traders―and failed

Nepenthe · June 2019

The guild trader system works well - the market stays very stable BECAUSE the trading is decentralized. The new trader UI and search features are fantastic and makes finding the item you're looking for so much easier. If you're in too much of a hurry to run around everywhere to check for deals, then check the big trade hubs and pay an arm and a leg!

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Nepenthe wrote: »

The guild trader system works well - the market stays very stable BECAUSE the trading is decentralized. The new trader UI and search features are fantastic and makes finding the item you're looking for so much easier. If you're in too much of a hurry to run around everywhere to check for deals, then check the big trade hubs and pay an arm and a leg!

I agree the current system works well, I'd like to keep it as well. One of the awesome benefits of the trader system is that you can travel around the game world and visit each trader for good deals, and that actually gives you a meaningful reason to visit these locations again, even though you may be done with quests and whatnot there. I wish there were even more dynamic overland content that would keep me going back to those zones.

Im in some of the biggest trade guilds on PC NA and I can tell you that currently for some items the central locations have actually a high volume of low priced items. For example raw mats are often cheaper in Rawlkha guild traders, which may be unexpected, but I suspect it is caused by competition between sellers.

redlink1979 · June 2019

Monopolization of the market? No, thanks.

Reverb · June 2019

Anyone who feels an AH is critical will continue to be disappointed, and should consider going back to those games. Zeni is very committed to the guild-based economy and most of us have really come to like it.

And I applaud them for it. There’s no reason for all Triple A MMORPGs to follow the same formula.

PzTnT · June 2019

Id definitely want a real trading post of some kind rather than this mess of a system that is there now. Anything not requiring people to be in a specific guild or spamming chat just to be able to sell their stuff would be a massive improvement.

Royaji · June 2019

Anyone who wants to remove guild traders should be willing to pay those 100s of millions of gold that goes out of the economy every week, thanks to guild traders, out of their pocket. Then we can talk about your auction house.

VaranisArano · June 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yes, I want one. This current system is totally inaccessible without messing with guilds, and I don't DO guilds. Especially for something that should be available to every player. This is the most whacked system I've ever run across....

Fortunately you don't have to use the system here to make gold. If that was the case, I wouldn't still be playing.

This is probably the strongest argument in favor of an Auction House or globally accessible market...and I still don't think its going to change anything.

Simply put, it benefits ESO as a game for players to be in trading guilds, and thus the incentives to get in a trading guild will continue.

A. Guilds are important to the social interaction between players. Maybe there are some super serious trading guilds where there's no social activity whatsoever, but all the one's I've been in had people grouping up to do PVE, dungeons, PVP, or even just chatting or getting together for the guild auction.

B. The weekly trader bids are a huge gold sink which helps keep the inflation down for the whole economy. The individual sale taxes or zone chat mail fees are steady, but don't make up that much of it. If guild traders are replaced, expect some new, major gold sinks to make up for that loss.

C. The competition between guilds keeps monopolies fairly rare and means that rare items don't become devalued.

So in short, if you don't do guilds, you've got options to trade. But it benefits ESO's social life, economic health, and the overall experience for most players when players are in guilds, and particularly in trading guilds. Plus, ZOS just made it easier to get into a trading guild that's right for each player with the new guild finder. So I expect ZOS to continue to incentivize players to join trading guilds. Auction Houses and globalized options do not offer the same social benefits, nor do they offer the same sort of economic benefits ESO has run with in the trading guild system, at least as far as I can tell.

So while different options might benefit individual players, I expect that ZOS is taking the long view of the entire game and the majority of players.

rager82b14_ESO · June 2019

I been asking for this for years. It is bad game design not to have one. We are using a website to make things easier. What is the point of having this system and the perks of it when we bypass it with addons and websites?

Not having a global ah at this point is just a way to make the game more tedious. Anyone who defends the AH in the state it is in is just crazy in my eyes. All the "good" things about the AH no longer matters because people bypass it.

delta_mystic · June 2019

controversial compromise:

let the guilds continue bidding for the popular spots in the high-traffic cities. Make the single-trader caravans scattered in remote places throughout the zones an all-access global AH. This gives people who don't do guilds a place to sell their goods. It's not the best place but at least it's an option. Most people would still use the popular convenient spots. Guilds would see alot less turnover from new members who sell some stuff then go inactive.

please keep the comments civil

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

Karm1cOne wrote: »

Another auction house poll? The system is fine, but needs some work to make it more universally accessible, such as:
Disbanding guild gives trader to 2nd highest bidder.
More stalls in busy zones.
Maybe a ranked trader bid, highest x# of bids get spots instead of individual stalls.

Everyone keeps complaining of no auction house, but dont realize how much more average traders would be screwed... or maybe they do...

There are a few reasons we should get one. I work a 40+ hour job as do many others, we pay bills in real life. We play a game to escape reality for a little bit to have fun, but in this game I have to pay "bills" to use the trader guild plus in some guilds sell a certain amount of items. Dues for trader guilds use to be 5k a few weeks ago, then went up to 10k, then went up to 15k a week to use a trader. Soon it will be 20k then be 25k then go up to 30k........ See my point on how this is flawed for most people? The people that like to farm and sell items might not have time to meet guild requirements of selling x amount of dollars or be kicked. We shouldn't have to pay "bills" to use a feature of the game because it is flawed. If I want to sell an item in real life on say eBay I make an account and just sell it, I don't sign up pay them a weekly fee for the ability to sell just one item I want to sell.

How about guild leaders that make multiple fake accounts and have a level 7 toon as the leader of a guild? They make so much money because they run 5+ trader guilds? But people say guild masters don't make a profit....... If they don't make a profit why are they running so many guilds? They do it out of the kindness of their heart?

Or let's talk.about guilds that will buy up entire zones with fake traders so they can set the market for that area. That isn't anything different than an auction house right? Or the fact that you can go all over the world to buy items for cheap then sell them at the monopolized areas were prices are high and you make huge amounts of money just re selling everything you bought for cheap?

Each system has flaws but the difference is with a global auction house it allows everyone the same ability to sell items. In both you can manipulate the system but at least it gives the people that don't make much gold a chance to make gold. This game is like real life, the rich get richer lol.

With a global ah we get 1 set price for an item. With the current system we have the "bad" trader areas that under price their items because they are in a low traffic area. And we have "good" spots where people can buy from those "bad" trader spots and price the item for double to tripple what they bought it for in the "good" trader spots. If we had a global AH it gets rid of this problem of again the rich getting richer because they manipulate the market.

Now let's look at the thing people get worried about with a auction house. Let's say I buy every single spell strategist inferno staff on the market then put them all back on the auction house for insane amounts of gold. Yes I've manipulated the market to drive it up, but guess what? Any smart person can look at the history on that item and see I paid 5k each and tried selling them for 500k each. They can just let my items sit there and wait for someone to just undercut me and drive the market back down making me waste a lot of money on items I'm having trouble moving now. With our current system no one would know that I bought all the inferno staffs to drive the price up.

So please explain to me why you think this system works again?

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

You know what ... I give up. Let’s get one global auction house. We can put it directly in the middle of the imperial city. At that point the crushing blow to the beautifully level economics in Tamriel would be offset by the astronomically high new value of salt.

Aurie · June 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yes, I want one. This current system is totally inaccessible without messing with guilds, and I don't DO guilds. Especially for something that should be available to every player. This is the most whacked system I've ever run across....

Fortunately you don't have to use the system here to make gold. If that was the case, I wouldn't still be playing.

This.

Not everyone wants to belong to at least one guild just so that they have access to the selling market, which is the way of ESO. And certainly having to pay dues etc (not all guilds do this, I know) is not an attractive proposition when you may not be heavily into selling to make your gold..

I come from the old-fashioned guild perspective, where the prime reason for forming or joining a guild is to make friends and play with like-minded people, join in activities, make up dungeon and raiding groups with people you know and trust, contribute to the well-being of your guild in whatever way you can, enjoy the support of your fellow guildies...and socialise. Trading is normally a very small part of guild life, and though it does and should exist between members, it should not be the main reason behind the very existence of a guild.

And who, in this ESO way of trading, with maybe limited play time, is happy to spend a substantial proportion of that time traveling from A to B, X number of times, all over the world to find what they are looking for? And more often than not, to find that it has been a wasted journey.

Yes, establishing an AH trading system would mean overhauling the system, and guild focus ....but really, guilds in games with the AH system are real guilds which focus on guild activities and structure, but without the public trading aspect. They can still trade amongst members, but the AH system is so much more efficient and less time consuming for players than this current guild trading system. And actually no, the AH system doesn't drive prices up. Just the contrary, as competition keeps the instantly comparable prices at a reasonable level.

There is a reason why most MMOs have an auction house.

StytchFingal · June 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Yes, I want one. This current system is totally inaccessible without messing with guilds, and I don't DO guilds. Especially for something that should be available to every player. This is the most whacked system I've ever run across....

Fortunately you don't have to use the system here to make gold. If that was the case, I wouldn't still be playing.

This is probably the strongest argument in favor of an Auction House or globally accessible market...and I still don't think its going to change anything.

Simply put, it benefits ESO as a game for players to be in trading guilds, and thus the incentives to get in a trading guild will continue.

A. Guilds are important to the social interaction between players. Maybe there are some super serious trading guilds where there's no social activity whatsoever, but all the one's I've been in had people grouping up to do PVE, dungeons, PVP, or even just chatting or getting together for the guild auction.

B. The weekly trader bids are a huge gold sink which helps keep the inflation down for the whole economy. The individual sale taxes or zone chat mail fees are steady, but don't make up that much of it. If guild traders are replaced, expect some new, major gold sinks to make up for that loss.

C. The competition between guilds keeps monopolies fairly rare and means that rare items don't become devalued.

So in short, if you don't do guilds, you've got options to trade. But it benefits ESO's social life, economic health, and the overall experience for most players when players are in guilds, and particularly in trading guilds. Plus, ZOS just made it easier to get into a trading guild that's right for each player with the new guild finder. So I expect ZOS to continue to incentivize players to join trading guilds. Auction Houses and globalized options do not offer the same social benefits, nor do they offer the same sort of economic benefits ESO has run with in the trading guild system, at least as far as I can tell.

So while different options might benefit individual players, I expect that ZOS is taking the long view of the entire game and the majority of players.

I'd say your point B is actually the most important. But that's a nitpick. You've nailed it.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · June 2019

Side note - anyone complaining about guild dues being too high is silly. Do you know how much gold you can make a week? 10 or even 20k is nothing. I didn’t play on Monday, so when logging in on Tuesday I had 176K in new earnings.

paulsimonps · June 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Anyone who wants to remove guild traders should be willing to pay those 100s of millions of gold that goes out of the economy every week, thanks to guild traders, out of their pocket. Then we can talk about your auction house.

yup, a good money sink that removes gold from circulation is very much so needed with the constant generation of gold from quests and mobs.

Kidgangster101 · June 2019

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Side note - anyone complaining about guild dues being too high is silly. Do you know how much gold you can make a week? 10 or even 20k is nothing. I didn’t play on Monday, so when logging in on Tuesday I had 176K in new earnings.

You do realize that some people play 2 hours a day and they have to decide do I farm to put stuff on broker or do I do content since I'm actually playing a game and want to run content that was created rather than meeting guild requirements. Or what if I want to take a break for 2 weeks to not lose my spot I have to pay dues for 2 weeks or get kicked meaning I waste money? Lol you are just silly with your logic.

I make double at least in a day what you make but I know how to manipulate the current system like I said earlier 😉

myskyrim26 · June 2019

I've seen the AH in other MMO game. It is good for buyers and really bad for sellers. As in ESO I have to do both - sell and buy - I don't want the AH.

Jayman1000 · June 2019

Reverb wrote: »

Anyone who feels an AH is critical will continue to be disappointed, and should consider going back to those games. Zeni is very committed to the guild-based economy and most of us have really come to like it.

And I applaud them for it. There’s no reason for all Triple A MMORPGs to follow the same formula.

I could not agree more

rager82b14_ESO · June 2019

See what I mean? The reasons behind not having a global ah does not matter. The good things this system brings we all bypass. Yet, they still don't want a global one LMAO.

Erelah · June 2019

Royaji wrote: »

Anyone who wants to remove guild traders should be willing to pay those 100s of millions of gold that goes out of the economy every week, thanks to guild traders, out of their pocket. Then we can talk about your auction house.

So an auction house would not have a listing fee?

Sylosi · June 2019

The ESO system is good for the minority who are interested in trading as there is a bit more to it as a system than a global AH house provides.

On the other hand it is bad for most other players (which is the majority), it is much less convenient,
rather tedious to use and basically a waste of often limited game time.

It is one of the reasons I only play this game sporadically and spend very little money on it.

Schemering · June 2019

eso has a good system; not perfect but good, involving guilds in auctions of multiple traders making guilds desirable and creating vibrant economy... what i dont understand is that every time only one alternative is proposed, an auction house. Where is the creativity... if a creative proposal is made i would be willing to consider it as alternative but not this obsolete idea that would have to be copied from obsolete other games

srfrogg23 · June 2019

I'm pretty sure modders and TTC have made it a point to personally obliterate any defense of the current trade system. Literally, every counter-argument to a global AH is being done with the current system now because of mods and TTC.

Price homogenization and monopolization? Done.

The value to the current system? People can roleplay as accountants. I guess that's a plus...

ZonasArch · June 2019

AH is a stupid idea, favors inflation and market manipulation by guilds(yes, it does, I've done it before, and it ruins games economies) and it'll get rid of the gold sink.

Silly, brainless idea.

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