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POLL: Would you like a global AH as in other games?
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Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »double
That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.
I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.
Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.
Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁
Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.
We weren't talking about simple profit though. We're talking about the corrupted system and market monopolizing by a handful of guilds in cooperation with their sister guilds that pop up every two seconds with the same exact players in them. Profit is fine and dandy, but manipulating the market to extremes in multiple ways(mentioned earlier), and cheating within the guild vendor system(also mentioned within the thread) is not.
Yes AND if that level of effort and coordination is an issue now just imagine how bad it will be when it only requires 1 person and a 5 second click of a button in a AH to corner and resale market items.
That wouldn't be possible if a player was limited as to how much of any single item they can purchase within a certain time period. Low limits would of course be unacceptable, but I'm sure the players and ZOS can reach an agreement about what would be acceptable to reduce the likelihood of these things happening. There may even be other ways to reduce the likelihood of someone buying all of any item. I always welcome new ideas. Occasionally a really good one pops up. An AH would also allow people to sell things to everyone on a server without weekly fees.So win win.
If I thought ZOS had the time to fix the corruption within the system and would actually implement it, I would say no AH, but I just don't see that right now. So, for me, until I see concrete proof that ZOS did something about it, I will support an AH system. No matter how hard the manipulators within the system disagree with me, and flame to try to keep the corruption going, I will stand by what I say.Edited by Arrodisia on June 11, 2019 7:10PM1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »double
That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.
I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.
Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.
Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁
Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.
We weren't talking about simple profit though. We're talking about the corrupted system and market monopolizing by a handful of guilds in cooperation with their sister guilds that pop up every two seconds with the same exact players in them. Profit is fine and dandy, but manipulating the market to extremes in multiple ways(mentioned earlier), and cheating within the guild vendor system(also mentioned within the thread) is not.
Yes AND if that level of effort and coordination is an issue now just imagine how bad it will be when it only requires 1 person and a 5 second click of a button in a AH to corner and resale market items.
That wouldn't be possible if a player was limited as to how much of any single item they can purchase within a certain time period. Low limits would of course be unacceptable, but I'm sure the players and ZOS can reach an agreement about what would be acceptable to reduce the likelihood of these things happening. There may even be other ways to reduce the likelihood of someone buying all of any item. An AH would also allow people to sell things to everyone on a server without weekly fees.
If I thought ZOS had the time to fix the corruption within the system and would actually implement it, I would say no AH, but I just don't see that right now. So, for me, until I see concrete proof that ZOS did something about it, I will support an AH system. No matter how hard the manipulators within the system disagree with me, and flame to try to keep the corruption going, I will stand by what I say.
The buying limits is actually a pretty good idea. If I was part of the “flame to keep the corruption going” crowd you referred to, you got me all wrong. If ZOS said simply that no more than 100 of an unstackable item or 100 stacks of a stackable item could be bought in a day, great, problem solved.
In the absence of limits like those I cannot support a GAH.
I’ve seen wayyyyyyyyy too many game economies go off the rails because of rich players. It might not seem like it but everything I stated against the OP of this discussion is to save them long term from what absolutely would happen in a truly unregulated situation. Those caps would provide adequate regulation.0 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Nah , traditional AH is boring. At least here we have importance of trades's location. No just prices.
1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »juttaa77b16_ESO wrote: »double
That time is more than enough to discourage rampent attempts. I have tried and on a practical level travel to 7 main hubs with searches took over an hour.
I buy and sell a lot every day. 7 is doable in 15-20 mins. If you have guildies working with you, which happens often, it's much faster.
Yes having a team does make it feasable. I was just pointing out it becomes impracticable at an individual level.
Familair with the practice of having guild officers funded with seed money from guild bank to bargain shop at predetermind traders for resale, including percentage mark downs for acceptable resale returns ensuring taxes are accounted for. 😁
Yes some people actually do play eso economics like a real business and it returns real in game profit.
We weren't talking about simple profit though. We're talking about the corrupted system and market monopolizing by a handful of guilds in cooperation with their sister guilds that pop up every two seconds with the same exact players in them. Profit is fine and dandy, but manipulating the market to extremes in multiple ways(mentioned earlier), and cheating within the guild vendor system(also mentioned within the thread) is not.
Yes AND if that level of effort and coordination is an issue now just imagine how bad it will be when it only requires 1 person and a 5 second click of a button in a AH to corner and resale market items.
That wouldn't be possible if a player was limited as to how much of any single item they can purchase within a certain time period. Low limits would of course be unacceptable, but I'm sure the players and ZOS can reach an agreement about what would be acceptable to reduce the likelihood of these things happening. There may even be other ways to reduce the likelihood of someone buying all of any item. An AH would also allow people to sell things to everyone on a server without weekly fees.
If I thought ZOS had the time to fix the corruption within the system and would actually implement it, I would say no AH, but I just don't see that right now. So, for me, until I see concrete proof that ZOS did something about it, I will support an AH system. No matter how hard the manipulators within the system disagree with me, and flame to try to keep the corruption going, I will stand by what I say.
The buying limits is actually a pretty good idea. If I was part of the “flame to keep the corruption going” crowd you referred to, you got me all wrong. If ZOS said simply that no more than 100 of an unstackable item or 100 stacks of a stackable item could be bought in a day, great, problem solved.
In the absence of limits like those I cannot support a GAH.
I’ve seen wayyyyyyyyy too many game economies go off the rails because of rich players. It might not seem like it but everything I stated against the OP of this discussion is to save them long term from what absolutely would happen in a truly unregulated situation. Those caps would provide adequate regulation.
I never get personal in the forums. I do my best to stay objective and polite during the entire time I interact with people, because some people have really good ideas, and are friendly too. So no. It wasn't directed at you. I took your points as non combative and more as inquisitive and explanatory.Edited by Arrodisia on June 11, 2019 7:23PM1 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭Say ZOS creates an auction house and implements it. Day 1 on live, 100k players, all looking at the same list of 3M items. It won't just be the PC EU server on fire.3 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!1 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.2 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
This would never happen with the ability to farm your own. Never happen.
There will be a price cap that the individual would just go farm their own. I could see motifs, certain recipes, and furniture plans MAYBE, but harvestable mats? No friggin way would the market would bear that on a self harvestable item.
That argument is a non-starter.
Edited by Bouldercleave on June 11, 2019 8:21PM6 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭“Nay!” is still winning ... just like every other Auction House poll.
Time to lock the thread ...0 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »“Nay!” is still winning ... just like every other Auction House poll.
Time to lock the thread ...
The thread is actually pretty well balanced on both sides.0 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Either global or the barker idea, just something that eliminates this ridiculous hunting around. I've played in two other big MMOs that used a global AH and I have yet to ever see a cornered market or a ruined economy. They work just fine.8 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
This would never happen with the ability to farm your own. Never happen.
There will be a price cap that the individual would just go farm their own. I could see motifs, certain recipes, and furniture plans MAYBE, but harvestable mats? No friggin way would the market would bear that on a self harvestable item.
That argument is a non-starter.
I agree and if a reasonable buying limit on each account was in place, and set per item bought within a certain amount of time, it would solve one of the problems of both systems. That would make it much harder for any one set of people to buy up, and control the entire market of any one item at any one time. It would encourage more competitive prices, which leads to more buying and selling in general.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Auction house seems to be catching up, but of course, this will never be a fair place to ask this question, as most (let's call them) regular players don't frequent the forums.
Most of the people who post on here are guild leaders, longer term/pro players and self-confessed trolls.
Not many casuals will get a say, here and most of them would probably pick the auction house option.5 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »“Nay!” is still winning ... just like every other Auction House poll.
Time to lock the thread ...
Fortunately the Mods don't lock poll threads just because the vote's going one way. As it happens, most of the polls on this have been split down the middle, but much more emphatically in favour of change when people are asked whether the existing system is adequate as is - even its supporters generally seek major improvement. As with every poll in life, it all depends on how you ask the question
!
I'd be very happy if ZOS put an official poll on the launcher with the simple question - "Are you happy with the present Guild Trader system as it is? YES/NO".
Meanwhile, this is a forum poll in which about 300 players have cast a view on a different question entirely - out of how many current players, would you surmise?1 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭re: "But it's so much more social!" "If you're for Global AH, you're against socialization!"
Personally, I don't see this game's guild system as very "social". Between their massive size, and the fact you can sign up for 5 of them (with periodic threads from people demanding 10+!), guilds are not a social group - they're a huge crowd to get lost in. You can't get to know 500-2500 people, they're not a group of friends & allies working together, they're just a huge mob gathered under a single banner. Particularly the trade guilds, with people popping in & out of them constantly, members who don't meet the weekly sales quota being kicked & replaced, no reason to ever speak to anyone, since all you're there for is listing goods in a vendor window....
Socialization. Right. Sure.
4 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For sheer convenience -- SWTOR has a really decent model actually with a UI that helps you find what you want.3 -
Mintaka5✭✭✭✭✭Trade guilds need to be abolished. Too exclusive, and I feel that it's just one big cartel of guilds controlling the whole ESO economy. Have you seen some of these guild houses? They are fully stocked with everything, and mind you all that this house is not owned by the guild, only the GM. Seems illegitimate, and I am of the belief that GMs of these trade guilds are taking advantage of the rest of the player base. Public market NOW!Edited by Mintaka5 on June 12, 2019 12:15AM4
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THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
This would never happen with the ability to farm your own. Never happen.
There will be a price cap that the individual would just go farm their own. I could see motifs, certain recipes, and furniture plans MAYBE, but harvestable mats? No friggin way would the market would bear that on a self harvestable item.
That argument is a non-starter.
We clearly know different people in ESO. For one thing, every response I type is about the console, not the PC. The other is that there are people who basically never leave Cyrodiil yet chug cornflower and columbine like no ones business. I myself generally go through 25 or so potions an hour in PVP.
You can pretend that people wouldn’t go through major hoops to get their hands on all the gold all you want, but where there is a will there is a way. An ESO billionaire can break any in-game market they want.
So sure, maybe it never gets to 50k a flower, but a stack of 200 for 500k to a million, yes for certain.
I used the resin example earlier. They are selling for 7k today on XBox. Getting them to 20k on average would be child’s play for a billionaire. At that point what’s to stop them from going to 25 or 50 or more each? Nothing.
And unlike flowers, which are harder to farm than you give credit for, farming wood for days on end to get 1 resin per 200? F that. No one is gonna drop what they are doing who wouldn’t otherwise already be a farmer to chop the 1600 pieces of wood needed to hope to get resin. I know for sure I wouldn’t, even if they are 20k each.Edited by THEDKEXPERIENCE on June 11, 2019 8:38PM0 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
If this were the case in more hardcore games (because this is very casual friendly) we would see this. I played in many MMORPG and not once have I see it get as bad as everyone is making it seem.
As long as items are farmable people have a price they would pay before they farmed it themselves. If it came down to it people would farm spriggan chest and transmute it before paying 3,000,000, gold for a perfect piece. Same with alcemy mats people will just go gather it themselves.
Games dating all the way back to year 2000 on console used a global ah and it was perfectly fine, easy for the buyer and the seller. There was never any of this search the entire realm wasting 3 hours of your life for a few items. We just had 1 global auction house located in many different areas to prevent lag.
Ff11, ff14, wow, EverQuest online adventures, DC universe are just some of the games that did it and it was great.
Hell I would settle for a new npc in each city you can talk to that has the search feature like they just implimemted, that would let me ask him for let's say spriggan chest. He then would tell me every guild trader that has it and a price and I manually travel to the zone to get it. You can keep the trader system but allow people to not sit in "unuasually long load times" 20+ times.3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »“Nay!” is still winning ... just like every other Auction House poll.
Time to lock the thread ...
Fortunately the Mods don't lock poll threads just because the vote's going one way. As it happens, most of the polls on this have been split down the middle, but much more emphatically in favour of change when people are asked whether the existing system is adequate as is - even its supporters generally seek major improvement. As with every poll in life, it all depends on how you ask the question !
I'd be very happy if ZOS put an official poll on the launcher with the simple question - "Are you happy with the present Guild Trader system as it is? YES/NO".
Meanwhile, this is a forum poll in which about 300 players have cast a view on a different question entirely - out of how many current players, would you surmise?
Congratulations... you know how to manipulate questions... and can steer the people you ask towards a specific answer based on how you ask the question. Sounds like politics. I hate politics.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0 -
Loves_guars✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't bother op. Most forumers here play the economy as a minigame and don't care about the problems that the system creates when looking for needed items.1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
This would never happen with the ability to farm your own. Never happen.
There will be a price cap that the individual would just go farm their own. I could see motifs, certain recipes, and furniture plans MAYBE, but harvestable mats? No friggin way would the market would bear that on a self harvestable item.
That argument is a non-starter.
We clearly know different people in ESO. For one thing, every response I type is about the console, not the PC. The other is that there are people who basically never leave Cyrodiil yet chug cornflower and columbine like no ones business. I myself generally go through 25 or so potions an hour in PVP.
Anyway, yes it sounds ridiculous. I definitely wouldn’t be something I’d pay, but I’m not everyone.
You can pretend that people wouldn’t go through major hoops to get their hands on all the gold all you want, but where there is a will there is a way. An ESO billionaire can break any in-game market they want.
So sure, maybe it never gets to 50k a flower, but a stack of 200 for 500k to a million, yes for certain.
I used the resin example earlier. They are selling for 7k today on XBox. Getting them to 20k on average would be child’s play for a billionaire. At that point what’s to stop them from going to 25 or 50 or more each? Nothing.
And unlike flowers, which are harder to farm than you give credit for, farming wood for days on end to get 1 resin per 200? F that. No one is gonna drop what they are doing who wouldn’t otherwise already be a farmer to chop the 1600 pieces of wood needed to hope to get resin. I know for sure I wouldn’t, even if they are 20k each.
LOL, We must play completely different versions of ESO.
Mats are easy to farm - including flowers. YOU just don't want to put forth the effort because it's not your idea of fun and I get that.
There would be a point that even if a billionaire cornered the market on a harvestable item and jacked up the price that sales would fall to zero. The market will only bear what people are WILLING to pay. If you put something on the market and it is over priced, it simply will not sell even if you have the only one on the market. That's market based economy 101.
It's up to the consumer to dictate what the market will bear. With a constant influx of mats, you could never control the market because you can't control the inflow of new mats coming into the marketplace. The only way you could corner the market on harvestables is if you could control the harvesting itself.
Again - sorry but it's a non starter argument.
5 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Trade guilds need to be abolished. Too exclusive, and I feel that it's just one big cartel of guilds controlling the whole ESO economy. Have you seen some of these guild houses? They are fully stocked with everything, and mind you all that this house is not owned by the guild, only the GM. Seem illegitimate, and I am of the belief that GMs of these trade guilds are taking advantage of the rest of the player base. Public market NOW!
What is exclusive about the free trade guilds? Most are well below member cap. You saw a couple weeks ago, the big Raw'lka traders got bought out of their spots, they aren't invincible. You want the high traffic trader, pay for it, it's the same in the business world.
I have a "guild" house, with all the attunable stations, all mundus stones, everything that would be in a top end trading guild "guild house". I have never once managed a trade guild, I've never even been the GM of any guild (other than for about 2 minutes in a raid guild because the GM needed to change the order of their guilds). It's not particularly difficult to do, so I fail to see how anybody is being "taken advantage" of.
The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
Dont_do_drugs✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mintaka5 wrote: »
Trade guilds need to be abolished. Too exclusive, and I feel that it's just one big cartel of guilds controlling the whole ESO economy. Have you seen some of these guild houses? They are fully stocked with everything, and mind you all that this house is not owned by the guild, only the GM. Seem illegitimate, and I am of the belief that GMs of these trade guilds are taking advantage of the rest of the player base. Public market NOW!
this is brilliant. so gm working their a**es off, to provide people with a guild house, put in their gold, run around farming and working to gain the gold and the vouchers, pay crowns/rl money for mundus stones and then this dude comes into the forums, finding a way to hate on gm for that.Edited by Dont_do_drugs on June 11, 2019 8:54PM
Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"I have too admit. People leading trade guilds in this game are quite stupid. Not stupid like fools, but stupid like leaders.
They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."
Egal, wie gut du Schach spielst, die Taube wird alle Figuren umwerfen, auf das Brett kacken und herumstolzieren, als hätte sie gewonnen.
Arkadius Trade Tools
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First external ATT tab contribution.
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Check out the new Port to Friend's House library and port to contributers houses:
Deutsch | English0 -
THEDKEXPERIENCE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kidgangster101 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
If this were the case in more hardcore games (because this is very casual friendly) we would see this. I played in many MMORPG and not once have I see it get as bad as everyone is making it seem.
As long as items are farmable people have a price they would pay before they farmed it themselves. If it came down to it people would farm spriggan chest and transmute it before paying 3,000,000, gold for a perfect piece. Same with alcemy mats people will just go gather it themselves.
Games dating all the way back to year 2000 on console used a global ah and it was perfectly fine, easy for the buyer and the seller. There was never any of this search the entire realm wasting 3 hours of your life for a few items. We just had 1 global auction house located in many different areas to prevent lag.
Ff11, ff14, wow, EverQuest online adventures, DC universe are just some of the games that did it and it was great.
Hell I would settle for a new npc in each city you can talk to that has the search feature like they just implimemted, that would let me ask him for let's say spriggan chest. He then would tell me every guild trader that has it and a price and I manually travel to the zone to get it. You can keep the trader system but allow people to not sit in "unuasually long load times" 20+ times.
The ultimate team type modes of Madden, FIFA, NHL, NBA and MLB all have this massive problem. As you stated ESO is a pretty casual game for MMO standards.
What type of game is the most casual?
This is a rampant issue across all console games with a global auction house. I’ve played each of the ones I’ve listed and seen it in all of them since before ESO was even released.
I cannot speak about the PC community but I’m an expert on the console community. Rich players would run roughshod over the GAH before you could even blink.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »“Nay!” is still winning ... just like every other Auction House poll.
Time to lock the thread ...
Fortunately the Mods don't lock poll threads just because the vote's going one way. As it happens, most of the polls on this have been split down the middle, but much more emphatically in favour of change when people are asked whether the existing system is adequate as is - even its supporters generally seek major improvement. As with every poll in life, it all depends on how you ask the question !
I'd be very happy if ZOS put an official poll on the launcher with the simple question - "Are you happy with the present Guild Trader system as it is? YES/NO".
Meanwhile, this is a forum poll in which about 300 players have cast a view on a different question entirely - out of how many current players, would you surmise?
Congratulations... you know how to manipulate questions... and can steer the people you ask towards a specific answer based on how you ask the question. Sounds like politics. I hate politics.
Excuse me, but that's why every poll put out about the current trading system compares it to an Auction House. There are other ways of improving the present system but people are never asked about those. See my post #37 above.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »Kidgangster101 wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
Sort of ... but it’s more like 100% of the stuff you don’t need would be cheaper than ever. You want a training bow of vicious death, bam, no problem that’ll be just 65 gold.
But then the small percentage of stuff that you need would go to insane prices. Are you ready to live in a world where Columbine costs 20k a flower? Or 50k? Or whatever number Baron Von Salesguy wants to make it?
Alchemy and upgrade mats would be off the wall expensive.
If this were the case in more hardcore games (because this is very casual friendly) we would see this. I played in many MMORPG and not once have I see it get as bad as everyone is making it seem.
As long as items are farmable people have a price they would pay before they farmed it themselves. If it came down to it people would farm spriggan chest and transmute it before paying 3,000,000, gold for a perfect piece. Same with alcemy mats people will just go gather it themselves.
Games dating all the way back to year 2000 on console used a global ah and it was perfectly fine, easy for the buyer and the seller. There was never any of this search the entire realm wasting 3 hours of your life for a few items. We just had 1 global auction house located in many different areas to prevent lag.
Ff11, ff14, wow, EverQuest online adventures, DC universe are just some of the games that did it and it was great.
Hell I would settle for a new npc in each city you can talk to that has the search feature like they just implimemted, that would let me ask him for let's say spriggan chest. He then would tell me every guild trader that has it and a price and I manually travel to the zone to get it. You can keep the trader system but allow people to not sit in "unuasually long load times" 20+ times.
The ultimate team type modes of Madden, FIFA, NHL, NBA and MLB all have this massive problem. As you stated ESO is a pretty casual game for MMO standards.
What type of game is the most casual?
This is a rampant issue across all console games with a global auction house. I’ve played each of the ones I’ve listed and seen it in all of them since before ESO was even released.
I cannot speak about the PC community but I’m an expert on the console community. Rich players would run roughshod over the GAH before you could even blink.
Guaranteed, it'd be even worse on PC, as I'd venture that people have more gold on PC because some of the easiest ways to make gold are even easier due to add-onsThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
Arrodisia✭✭✭✭✭Trade guilds need to be abolished. Too exclusive, and I feel that it's just one big cartel of guilds controlling the whole ESO economy. Have you seen some of these guild houses? They are fully stocked with everything, and mind you all that this house is not owned by the guild, only the GM. Seem illegitimate, and I am of the belief that GMs of these trade guilds are taking advantage of the rest of the player base. Public market NOW!
What is exclusive about the free trade guilds? Most are well below member cap. You saw a couple weeks ago, the big Raw'lka traders got bought out of their spots, they aren't invincible. You want the high traffic trader, pay for it, it's the same in the business world.
I have a "guild" house, with all the attunable stations, all mundus stones, everything that would be in a top end trading guild "guild house". I have never once managed a trade guild, I've never even been the GM of any guild (other than for about 2 minutes in a raid guild because the GM needed to change the order of their guilds). It's not particularly difficult to do, so I fail to see how anybody is being "taken advantage" of.
The vendors in Rawl Ka were bought up, but it certainly wasn't done only by some random free trade guilds with no requirements and too little money in the bank to do it. That takeover was backed. It took major cash flow and there's only a handful of guilds including their fly by night sister guilds that can do it in such a precise way as that was done. This is exactly what a game economy doesn't need.
As far as decorating the guild houses goes, a lot of it is done by donations. That doesn't constitute any kind of shady stuff in itself. So I do agree with that.Edited by Arrodisia on June 11, 2019 9:02PM1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If we can limit the discussion to MMORPGs rather than every other kind of MMO imaginable, I have played most since 1998 and have actively participated in most of those with auction houses and have yet to experience one in which I could neither sell nor buy at the price I wanted and considered reasonable.
While it's true that some players talk about the pitfalls of auction houses in other games, it's also true that other players report exactly the same pitfalls under the present system in ESO.7 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »rager82b14_ESO wrote: »Let me answer back as well, and thank you for being civil as well.
- and it’s easier for the billionaires as well which is the problem
Why is this a problem? If someone has the gold, they would get the stuff no matter what. Also this put the gold back into the market. Meaning that more people have access to the funds besides just trading guilds.
- why would anyone purchase a set that isn’t “the best of the best”? Sure, maybe someone really wants some weird set, it’s possible. But is anyone going to shell out gold for a lesser set with a bad trait, especially one that isn’t CP160? You can flood the market with as much trash as you want, but for a majority of it it’ll just go unsold and returned to your mail in 30 days. You would make a lot more gold off vendoring those items.
Because it would be cheaper. Lets say that people are selling the best of the best set and it is a hefty price. Crafters could make older sets that are not as strong, but still a power boost compare to vendor items for cheaper. A global AH opens up this options for players, and gives consumers more choices. Right now, guilds don't need to do that. Also in other mmos. Lower level gear gets sold all the time in a global ah. We get more and more new players. Just picture how much training gear would get sold, or just lower level sets.
-- who do you think has the most gold? It’s those guild leaders. The system becomes easier for them as well. You aren’t empowering the little guy, your empowering the billionaires.
Again I feel this is a non issue. It just means that they will buy stuff from everyone instead of cycling all the gold around in trading guilds.
The billionaires are the root cause of any “problems” with a global auction house. And make no mistake, I’m an ESO millionaire who happens to have the market cornered on XBox on one particular item (triune rings) so a GAH would likely make me a billionaire.
If that happened do you know what I would do? I’d buy up all my competition and keep the prices higher than they should be. As it stands now I have no way of knowing what triune rings “should” go for. I just know that they sell like hotcakes at the price I use and didn’t when I upped them 5k a few weeks ago.
It sounds great that Joe Dragon Knight could potentially be able to make 1000 gold on his level 14 hammer. I do not begrudge him at all. The problem is that if he wanted to keep that hammer and make it purple, it would end up costing him magnitudes more gold to do so because some billionaire would have bought up the whole supply of purple upgrade mats. THAT is the problem and what always happens.
Demand will not stop. Supply can be stopped. In a GAH economy that supply can be stopped with 1 push of a button. In today’s environment it requires hours of load screens, coordination and the persistence to do that grind every day. That little bit of pain is what will allow Joe Dragon Knight to upgrade his level 50 hammer to gold for under 100k.
So I ask you, what would you prefer?
Scenario 1 - get 1000 gold for a hammer that would normally only get 58 gold from a vendor but have to pay 10-20 million gold at end game for your real gear or ...
Scenario 2 - get 58 gold from the vendor today and only have to pay 500k gold for your end game gear?
It’s not even close. Scenario 2 is better and what we have today.
In a GAH, I wouldn't care who bought my stuff as long as I got paid. Thanks in advance.
What stuff? That’s the problem. If it’s your basic stuff you would get paid 1 gold more than vendoring it, maybe. If you had something good, yeah, a whale would buy it which is great for you - and how I run my “business” - but it wouldn’t help the “little guy” because getting anything above minimum for all but the truly most important items would become impossible.
If that's true, then I guess everything would be pretty cheap for buyers. Not to mention the time saved for buyers with a single place to purchase and a search function that filters through all available items.
Time and money saved. Time equals money. We would save money squared!
And the sellers would stop wasting their time making practically nothing.0