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Please remove the "criminal act" from necromancy skills...
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StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Do you wanna build a strawman...
We dont even need some hay.
Come on and let's have a "debate"
My points are more valid than yours.
Just go out the door.
The way you play the game is lame...
Edited by StormeReigns on May 26, 2019 4:18PM0 -
delichon✭✭I really like how justice system works with necromancy. It makes playing this class really unique. So I strongly against removing it. There is no problem with quests or npcs. As for duels, it would be really better to disable justice system for duels, but to prevent stealing and attacking innocents from duels either.1
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Van_Winkle✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »They’ve been up front about the criminal abilities since the twitch reveal, how is it their fault you paid for something that on the very creation page has a red print warning saying how they use some abilities that will be seen as a crime?
Just change your bars in town, voila, problem fixed.
Yea, and smoking can kill you. Everyone knows it and still smoke. Zos'es once say, that we need to hold some keeps to enter Imperial City...0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Van_Winkle wrote: »Guys, leave your "lore" for single player TES games. This is online game, and when i pay for new content, i want that new content will be comfortable, not annoying. When i accidentally push the button in city and got attacked by immortal guards - it is not funny at all.
Then play a MMO, not a MMORPG? A MMORPG without lore would be a nonsense, exceeded in the nonsensical stakes only by the removal of lore from a MMORPG just because someone might hit a button accidentally.6 -
sharquez✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only skill that is one now that shouldn't be is the benevolent healing ghost. There are countless quests where you summon or interact with ghosts regularly. As for the others they very much should be crimes.1 -
RodneyRegis✭✭✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »eklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »Mmmmm the criminal concept is one of the (few) genuinely unique things about the necro class. It’s not just about immersion, it’s integral to the class.
You don’t like it? Play a naughty sorc instead.
@FierceSam what do you mean it's "integral"? how? is this meant to imply that if the criminal activity mechanic was removed, necro would no longer be a functional, viable class?
what?
Sure it would be a functional, viable class. But would it still be a necromancer in the world of Elder Scrolls?
The outlaw aspect is a big part of the class flavor. Without it, you could just as well have it summon, say, elementals. Or teddy bears, or whatever.
or you could just remove this silly mechanic altogether since it has no real reason to exist in this type of game. it's a gimmick that i guarantee you even it's most hardcore supporters will be tired of in no time.
what do you even mean, would it still be an elder scrolls necromancer. who cares? when "muh immersion" gets in the way of the video game that i want to play, the game world and background is no longer servicing the game, rather it's the other way around.
this is like game design 101
“We felt it was important to intertwine necromancy and Justice for much the same reason we put Justice in the game in the first place,” says Ed Stark, the team’s Lead Content Designer in charge of the Necromancer class and the Justice system. “Historically, necromancy has always been frowned-upon by Tamrielic society, and so, when some NPCs see an overtly necromantic act, they react with fear or aggression and report it for the crime it is.”
Being a necro is more than a simple set of skills. If it was, there would be no point in developing it as a class. I haven’t had any issues with the justice system, but then I haven’t run around major cities casting criminal skills, just as I haven’t run around stealing stuff in front of NPCs.
If having a unique set of characteristics that define the class gets in the way of you doing ‘your game’, maybe you’re in the wrong place.
please get off your high horse. this isn't some genius game design decision made by the almighty zos, it's a tacked on mechanic specifically to appease the "muh immersion" crowd
i do enjoy your mindset though. "if you don't like this part of the game, maybe you should just stop playing because you're in the wrong place"
i'm really glad you're not a game designer, suffice to say. if you were, ESO would still be in it's 2014 launch state because clearly, if someone complains about something and sees genuine flaws in the design, well they're just in the wrong place, right?
I mean, there are so many people in the "muh immersion" crowd since this is a TES game, so good luck with that, the "muh immersion" crowd will always take priority over you.
Yes, there’s a reason RPG is part of MMORPG. Story driven content in a world established on lore. Pissing all over people justifying a mechanic with the fact that desecrating graves and reanimating the dead would be worthy of a bounty, as it’s a criminal act, is just silly. Many of us wish vampires and werewolves got bounties, but ZOS chose not to, since so many use the skill line for powerful passives.
i'm so glad you mentioned vamps and werewolves. doesn't it seem so odd they would pick one particular character choice as worthy of a bounty when it makes sense in the context of the game world...but not anything else?
almost feels...tacked on, doesn't it? not thought out well. there for the sake of appeasing a crowd.
Oh yeah, cos the crowd would have been baying for blood if they hadn't put this in.
Now you want them to appease the duellists, who annoy everyone lagging out cities and constantly challenging people ad nauseam.2 -
Van_Winkle✭✭✭✭Then play a MMO, not a MMORPG? A MMORPG without lore would be a nonsense, exceeded in the nonsensical stakes only by the removal of lore from a MMORPG just because someone might hit a button accidentally.
Oh, really? I played to almost all western MMORPGs and never see, that guards in towns will attack you just for using your skills. That what i mean - lore must not interrupt my game experience.0 -
Tonnopesce✭✭✭✭✭
✭You are doing something wrong imho...
Right now with my necro i've done 90% of "catland" map and 30% of "racist elves land" and i've payed 500-1k gold max on bounty.
The minigame usually is kinda fun, i just run away from the guards whith them screaming "Necromancer" , wait a little and come back.
No issues at allSignature2 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Justice system should be expanded by having City and Town guards also attack or "apprehend", Sorcerers that have Deadra pets summoned, Warden summoned Bear, Werewolf in WW form, Vampires at a specific stage (maybe stage 3 or higher), and Public Dueling.
This would add so much more to the game by making these different actions and ability's have consequences.Si vis pacem, para bellum4 -
Cerra✭✭✭Please stop giving me bounties when I assassinate someone, it's so unfair to all the assassins out there!
/s8 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I never brought the lore aspect into it, that was other people. The only lore thing I mentioned is the fact that if the Justice System is expanded in the future, that Sorc pets likely won't be part of it because there's nothing inherently illegal about being a summoner/conjurer in most of Tamriel.Transairion wrote: »There's also the fact that Rich very specifically said "maybe don't duel in towns" when the point about Necros dueling in towns and getting bounties for certain skills was brought
It's a pretty baffling decision when you're trying to sell a product but place downsides upon it other products don't have... isn't the idea to entice people? "Everyone else can duel atop guards but you can't use X skill there or you'll be attacked" isn't very appealing.
On dueling specifically, why not make duels in sight of town guards illegal for all? Get rid of all the people throwing effects around being a public nuisance, not just one class... and even then, it's only certain skills which doesn't make sense. Is that Flaming Skull organically grown from paste, looks like it was made from a mangled corpse to me but the healing Spirit Mender just minding his own ghostly business is the one who gets me arrested.
The lore reason starts to fall apart a bit after that.
I think for that particular statement, Rich was more or less saying don't duel in towns in general, not specifically saying Necros can't. Sure they could make dueling in towns illegal, but look how many people are getting upset over a Class mechanic that's been revealed ever since the initial Elsweyr livestream. Can you imagine the uproar if people suddenly couldn't duel in towns at all? It confuses me because there are other places you can go other than smack in the middle of a town or city to duel, yet people choose to do it knowing they might get a bounty (if playing Necro) and still complain about it.
It's kind of the same thing with people who accidentally steal an item while trying to interact with an object or NPC. Those people are constantly being told "slow down" or "be more careful" and so on. So why isn't the same applying to Necros dueling in towns? It's something that's 100% within the players' ability to prevent, just like that accidental stealing.
And again, I'm not saying people shouldn't voice complaints about something they don't find enjoyable. But complaining about how something is stupid and useless and so on, without giving things some time to pan out and without providing actual constructive feedback, is the wrong way to go about things. If you don't like the Class mechanic, make a constructive post with positive criticism about it, rather than just saying "lol no it's bad it needs to go". Because for every person who dislikes this feature, there are people who do like it, and neither mindset is right or wrong. But just blindly defending it or arguing against it in the long run offers no real feedback either for or against it.PC-NA | Been around since closed beta
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!
RP Characters:
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Vampire who really really REALLY likes likes learning Magick and also her Altmer husbando
Kaalhil Swiftstrike: Tiny shapeshifting monster hunter Bosmeri lady with enough sass to kill a dragon or ten
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Friendly healer with a coffee addiction and her own medical practice
Krisiel: Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things and is also a spy and ALSO a Werewolf
Niralae Elsinal: Young Altmeri woman with way too much Magicka and Vampire husbando
Slondor: TESified Slenderman, except lazier and has more of a thing for deals than Clavicus Vile does
Marius Vastino: Sarah's Imperial apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Lirawyn Calatare: Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Soliril Larethian: Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time1 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭I got my stamancer to 50 and now I’m leveling a magancer he’s like level 25. I don’t think I’ve received a single bounty for skill usage in town? But then again I don’t bunny hop around town spamming my skills so maybe that is the difference.5 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭shadowwraith666 wrote: »Necromancy has been hated throughout Tamriel since whenever - The main quest is an anti Necro quest - Oblivion major add-on was an anti Necro quest, many mini quests were anti Necro quest.
Its never going to be perfect but Elder Scrolls at least attempts to be lore consistent.
In Oblivion and Skyrim- conjuration was completely allowed in the game, a school of magic that allowed the summoning of the undead and Deadra.
- vampire players could walk about without a bounty
- the capturing of NPC souls required black soulgems
- vampire players can walk about without any bounty
- werewolf players can run through towns in wolfform without a bounty
- we have a skill line that allows the summoning of Daedric creatures
- we are allowed to steal the souls of NPCS using normal soulgems, in previous TES games this required black soulgems which were used by necromancers.
- we have quests that have the player summoning daedra and ally with npcs that use necromancy (brothers of strife questchain)
- the player themselves uses necromancy during the main quest.
This was an unnecessary and contradictive addition to the justice system.
This, all of this! Seriously, this is just a huge inconvenience they're placing on people who enjoy the necromancer class. Also I literally save these towns and people from Molag Bal, you'd think they would make an exception. >_>2 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »I got my stamancer to 50 and now I’m leveling a magancer he’s like level 25. I don’t think I’ve received a single bounty for skill usage in town? But then again I don’t bunny hop around town spamming my skills so maybe that is the difference.
Do main story quests, you'll find yourself in populated areas like Alcaire Castle and having to fight enemies. Apparently some people on the forums think it's okay to force necromancer players to have to take the time to unslot skills and allocate skill points into other abilities just for these situations. No, I'm playing a necromancer because I like to use the necromancy summons, also one of my main heals is a criminal act, I NEED IT TO PLAY THE GAME. Again, this is so inconvenient and frustrating.1 -
MojaveHeld✭✭✭✭✭Functionality is far more important than immersion in an MMO. Yes, the lore helps create wonderful flavor for the game. But that's all it is, flavor, not the substance of the dish. It can never, ever be allowed to override functionality and playability. The "muh immersion" crowd is being ignorant to the extreme here. It's a bad mechanic and shouldn't exist, it's that simple.1 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭MojaveHeld wrote: »Functionality is far more important than immersion in an MMO. Yes, the lore helps create wonderful flavor for the game. But that's all it is, flavor, not the substance of the dish. It can never, ever be allowed to override functionality and playability. The "muh immersion" crowd is being ignorant to the extreme here. It's a bad mechanic and shouldn't exist, it's that simple.
Conjecture.
2 -
kaisernick✭✭✭✭✭Next thing you will want bountys removed for stealing thing?
Nope i like the mechanic and i hope its never removed.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos brought into the game a much requested clsss but also a class that’s clearly the vile class of the game. Something that’s obvious for anyone who paid attention to the story lines and quests in the base game.
With that it makes absolute sense that in ESO the use of certain necro skills causes a bounty.1 -
StormeReigns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A Minor inconvenience. At the very most.
As mediocre and a Deaf player, with rheumatoid arthritis and essential tremors, I was still able to complete the main story, and now halfway through Summerset, where there are three times the NPC population and haven't been caught yet. Even when battling mobs in towns.4 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Van_Winkle wrote: »Then play a MMO, not a MMORPG? A MMORPG without lore would be a nonsense, exceeded in the nonsensical stakes only by the removal of lore from a MMORPG just because someone might hit a button accidentally.
Oh, really? I played to almost all western MMORPGs and never see, that guards in towns will attack you just for using your skills. That what i mean - lore must not interrupt my game experience.
Then kudos to ZOS for breaking the mould and making the lore actually mean something.9 -
kvirus11✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »Van_Winkle wrote: »Guys, leave your "lore" for single player TES games. This is online game, and when i pay for new content, i want that new content will be comfortable, not annoying. When i accidentally push the button in city and got attacked by immortal guards - it is not funny at all.
They’ve been up front about the criminal abilities since the twitch reveal, how is it their fault you paid for something that on the very creation page has a red print warning saying how they use some abilities that will be seen as a crime?
Just change your bars in town, voila, problem fixed.
The real issue is this...
I no wont too make new bar. I haz gud bar now. I uz bar in town and git kilt bye police. No fare. Game iz brokin.0 -
Thorvik_Tyrson✭✭✭Sheezabeast wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »eklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »Mmmmm the criminal concept is one of the (few) genuinely unique things about the necro class. It’s not just about immersion, it’s integral to the class.
You don’t like it? Play a naughty sorc instead.
@FierceSam what do you mean it's "integral"? how? is this meant to imply that if the criminal activity mechanic was removed, necro would no longer be a functional, viable class?
what?
Sure it would be a functional, viable class. But would it still be a necromancer in the world of Elder Scrolls?
The outlaw aspect is a big part of the class flavor. Without it, you could just as well have it summon, say, elementals. Or teddy bears, or whatever.
or you could just remove this silly mechanic altogether since it has no real reason to exist in this type of game. it's a gimmick that i guarantee you even it's most hardcore supporters will be tired of in no time.
what do you even mean, would it still be an elder scrolls necromancer. who cares? when "muh immersion" gets in the way of the video game that i want to play, the game world and background is no longer servicing the game, rather it's the other way around.
this is like game design 101
“We felt it was important to intertwine necromancy and Justice for much the same reason we put Justice in the game in the first place,” says Ed Stark, the team’s Lead Content Designer in charge of the Necromancer class and the Justice system. “Historically, necromancy has always been frowned-upon by Tamrielic society, and so, when some NPCs see an overtly necromantic act, they react with fear or aggression and report it for the crime it is.”
Being a necro is more than a simple set of skills. If it was, there would be no point in developing it as a class. I haven’t had any issues with the justice system, but then I haven’t run around major cities casting criminal skills, just as I haven’t run around stealing stuff in front of NPCs.
If having a unique set of characteristics that define the class gets in the way of you doing ‘your game’, maybe you’re in the wrong place.
please get off your high horse. this isn't some genius game design decision made by the almighty zos, it's a tacked on mechanic specifically to appease the "muh immersion" crowd
i do enjoy your mindset though. "if you don't like this part of the game, maybe you should just stop playing because you're in the wrong place"
i'm really glad you're not a game designer, suffice to say. if you were, ESO would still be in it's 2014 launch state because clearly, if someone complains about something and sees genuine flaws in the design, well they're just in the wrong place, right?
I mean, there are so many people in the "muh immersion" crowd since this is a TES game, so good luck with that, the "muh immersion" crowd will always take priority over you.
Yes, there’s a reason RPG is part of MMORPG. Story driven content in a world established on lore. Pissing all over people justifying a mechanic with the fact that desecrating graves and reanimating the dead would be worthy of a bounty, as it’s a criminal act, is just silly. Many of us wish vampires and werewolves got bounties, but ZOS chose not to, since so many use the skill line for powerful passives.
i'm so glad you mentioned vamps and werewolves. doesn't it seem so odd they would pick one particular character choice as worthy of a bounty when it makes sense in the context of the game world...but not anything else?
almost feels...tacked on, doesn't it? not thought out well. there for the sake of appeasing a crowd.
As I have read in other forums threads, it appears that they are looking into making the Vamp and WW also illegal. I read that they were testing the waters per say with the Necro before adding it to the Vamp and WW.
From a storyline perspective it makes absolute sense to do this. but how much do players want the lore versus "Gee its cool to play the baddie and not have any negative repercussions from it"
I can also understand the min maxers wanting the best DPS that they can get by using Vamp and WW. But would you still want that if there were an active campain in game to hunt you down?
Needless to say, I dont agree with the original poster. You read the cautions/warning and ignored them. Now your asking for a change since you realized exactly what it meant. Sorry, but I do not agree. Deal with it.5 -
Kenthros✭✭In some sense I can understand it, but if I'm saving davvons watch with my skills and I was instrumental in saving the town, they had best look the other way when I accidentally try to back out of a screen and it lags and I cast a Necro spell. Not to mention one of the leaders used necromancy to bring a brother of strife and he was ok to do it.But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.4 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thorvik_Tyrson wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »hmsdragonfly wrote: »eklhaftb16_ESO wrote: »Mmmmm the criminal concept is one of the (few) genuinely unique things about the necro class. It’s not just about immersion, it’s integral to the class.
You don’t like it? Play a naughty sorc instead.
@FierceSam what do you mean it's "integral"? how? is this meant to imply that if the criminal activity mechanic was removed, necro would no longer be a functional, viable class?
what?
Sure it would be a functional, viable class. But would it still be a necromancer in the world of Elder Scrolls?
The outlaw aspect is a big part of the class flavor. Without it, you could just as well have it summon, say, elementals. Or teddy bears, or whatever.
or you could just remove this silly mechanic altogether since it has no real reason to exist in this type of game. it's a gimmick that i guarantee you even it's most hardcore supporters will be tired of in no time.
what do you even mean, would it still be an elder scrolls necromancer. who cares? when "muh immersion" gets in the way of the video game that i want to play, the game world and background is no longer servicing the game, rather it's the other way around.
this is like game design 101
“We felt it was important to intertwine necromancy and Justice for much the same reason we put Justice in the game in the first place,” says Ed Stark, the team’s Lead Content Designer in charge of the Necromancer class and the Justice system. “Historically, necromancy has always been frowned-upon by Tamrielic society, and so, when some NPCs see an overtly necromantic act, they react with fear or aggression and report it for the crime it is.”
Being a necro is more than a simple set of skills. If it was, there would be no point in developing it as a class. I haven’t had any issues with the justice system, but then I haven’t run around major cities casting criminal skills, just as I haven’t run around stealing stuff in front of NPCs.
If having a unique set of characteristics that define the class gets in the way of you doing ‘your game’, maybe you’re in the wrong place.
please get off your high horse. this isn't some genius game design decision made by the almighty zos, it's a tacked on mechanic specifically to appease the "muh immersion" crowd
i do enjoy your mindset though. "if you don't like this part of the game, maybe you should just stop playing because you're in the wrong place"
i'm really glad you're not a game designer, suffice to say. if you were, ESO would still be in it's 2014 launch state because clearly, if someone complains about something and sees genuine flaws in the design, well they're just in the wrong place, right?
I mean, there are so many people in the "muh immersion" crowd since this is a TES game, so good luck with that, the "muh immersion" crowd will always take priority over you.
Yes, there’s a reason RPG is part of MMORPG. Story driven content in a world established on lore. Pissing all over people justifying a mechanic with the fact that desecrating graves and reanimating the dead would be worthy of a bounty, as it’s a criminal act, is just silly. Many of us wish vampires and werewolves got bounties, but ZOS chose not to, since so many use the skill line for powerful passives.
i'm so glad you mentioned vamps and werewolves. doesn't it seem so odd they would pick one particular character choice as worthy of a bounty when it makes sense in the context of the game world...but not anything else?
almost feels...tacked on, doesn't it? not thought out well. there for the sake of appeasing a crowd.
As I have read in other forums threads, it appears that they are looking into making the Vamp and WW also illegal. I read that they were testing the waters per say with the Necro before adding it to the Vamp and WW.
From a storyline perspective it makes absolute sense to do this. but how much do players want the lore versus "Gee its cool to play the baddie and not have any negative repercussions from it"
I can also understand the min maxers wanting the best DPS that they can get by using Vamp and WW. But would you still want that if there were an active campain in game to hunt you down?
Needless to say, I dont agree with the original poster. You read the cautions/warning and ignored them. Now your asking for a change since you realized exactly what it meant. Sorry, but I do not agree. Deal with it.
The devs are thinking of expanding the system now? Barf.
I don't currently have any werewolves or vamps, but I'd considered rolling a necro at some point. Then, if I'm around long enough, expand to include a wolf. But gods do I ever hate the justice system in this game
Everything I've been reading about the new class lately feels like a giant deterrent to rolling one. I'm not crazy about having my gameplay options shrink because I might get a bounty for playing.
Just yuck. No thanks.
* Disclaimer: The above is this poster's expression of dislike for a system, not a request for it to change.0 -
Rain_Greyraven✭✭✭✭✭It's not going away deal with it.
Now if they would just make Vamperism and Lycanthropy in towns full PVP and Full loot in towns."Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”
― Robert E. Howard
So you want to be a game developer? Here is the best way to go about it.0 -
Grandesdar✭✭✭I really wish they go further and implement this to sorc pets. I hate seeing those stacking on crafting tables and blocking the view. Also the sound they make is making my ear hurt.
Best regards,
Magsorc hater stamblade.Edited by Grandesdar on May 26, 2019 9:39PMMain: The Charismatic StamDK DD
Side: A Handsome Warden Healer
Side: (upcoming) Stam Necro DD
CP: 680
EU PSN: Style35133 -
thedude33✭✭✭✭✭You should also receive a bounty for making a pointless whine on the forums.
This
is
not
a problem
11 -
Bone_Demon✭✭✭DanteMR1995 wrote: »Sheezabeast wrote: »It very clearly labels which are criminal acts...that’s on you.
Obviously I read the abilities. This is incredibly inconvenient.
That's the point.1 -
Tornaad✭✭✭✭✭
✭DanteMR1995 wrote: »I try to do questing, BOUNTY.
I try to duel in normal dueling locations, BOUNTY.
I'm fighting in the woods and a merchant walks by, BOUNTY.
Seriously, this is so annoying and I have lost like 10k gold in this first week alone paying these bounties off.
That's the whole reason I want to play a Necromancer. When I played a Necromancer on the test server, I was actually saddened at how the bounty worked. I had hopes of spamming the abilities and racking up a million bounty or more. When I found I could not spam them to get a super high bounty it was almost a letdown. Hearing you complain makes me hopeful that maybe I could get my multi million bounty.3
This discussion has been closed.