Dragon Knight Balance Theories

Bashev · December 2015

CP5 wrote: »

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Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

PosternHouse · December 2015

Bring back some form of dynamic ultimate generation, revert the block change which totally negates stamina regeneration, and make magicka-based DK skills reliably scale off elemental or magic damage and DK would be most of the way back to fixed.

I think it might be neat to make inferno an activated ability instead of a toggle, which increases the DK's critical hit rating while also being a mildly strong AoE dot. It would fit well with the class and make it useful without it being broken. Make Molten Whip the stamina version of the Lava Whip skill and magicka DK's will still probably be the best trial DPS, while preserving PvP magicka DK viability.

I don't know why they just didn't implement a stamina penalty while blocking as opposed to a total removal. That way they could have incentivized heavy armor and 1h/shield as block-tank skill lines, since heavy armor in particular already forces players to take hits to their DPS and resource management.

tinythinker · December 2015

Well for what it's worth here are some additional thoughts on retooling (magicka) Dragonknights. Haven't heard anything at all about any plans being worked on, though, but I guess we will find out SOON™.

CP5 · December 2015

Bashev wrote: »

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

_Chaos · December 2015

CP5 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

CP5 · December 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

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CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

Darnathian · December 2015

CP5 wrote: »

show previous quotes

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

DKs are suppose to be tanks. they nerfed wings big time, didnt destroy it. they nerded gdb, destroyed it. and to put icing on the cake, they nerfed blocking for what ever reason. that finished the class off

i mean seriously. burst damage has been a problem forever not tanks. why was the answer to make it easier for damage dealers? i dont get it.

Hydrocodone · December 2015

Don't mess with my Earthen Heart abilities please! I use Obsidian Shard as a magic dump/CC/stam return and Minor Brutality.
Do not advise them to wreck Stam builds that suffered for so long so you can be a beast again. Magic DK should be viable but not at expense of Stamina builds.

I could care less what they do with Ardent Flame just leave the rest as is Please!

CP5 · December 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

DKs are suppose to be tanks. they nerfed wings big time, didnt destroy it. they nerded gdb, destroyed it. and to put icing on the cake, they nerfed blocking for what ever reason. that finished the class off

i mean seriously. burst damage has been a problem forever not tanks. why was the answer to make it easier for damage dealers? i dont get it.

I'm just saying, it was asked if there were other % max health heals, I listed them, it seemed the reply was "and those classes are asking for heals" as if implying those % max health heals were dependable when used. I think my favorite suggestion for dragon blood is the bonus multiplier on low health, but if added it would need to be low otherwise DK's could get a reliable "90% missing health healed" skill. Also scales is one of the few nerfs I agree with in game, if only because ZOS had no way of adding any counterplay to the skill other than 'shoot yourself 4 times in the face'.

IxskullzxI · December 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

show previous quotes

CP5 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

DKs are suppose to be tanks. they nerfed wings big time, didnt destroy it. they nerded gdb, destroyed it. and to put icing on the cake, they nerfed blocking for what ever reason. that finished the class off

i mean seriously. burst damage has been a problem forever not tanks. why was the answer to make it easier for damage dealers? i dont get it.

Because people with burst builds cried that they couldn't instantly melt people who held block. Blocking wasn't a problem. It was just annoying. It really shouldn't have been nerfed. Especially that hard. I want to see scaled armor give physical resistance too, talons 8m range, fix dragon blood and give ash cloud major evasion. I would like to see a passive give like 50% stam regen while blocking but I know that won't happen.

CP5 · December 2015

IxskullzxI wrote: »

show previous quotes

Darnathian wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

CP5 wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.

And both classes consider themselves that they do not have class heals.

NB's % health heals require killing blows, Sorcs are either from derpy pets or blood magic which can't be as easily spammed given the nature of the dark magic skills. None of those heals are instant.

Are you trying to imply that you can spam GDB? You do realize it's only effective when you're in execute range right?

And implying that a heal that only triggers on kill or when a pet feels like it is any more reliable?

DKs are suppose to be tanks. they nerfed wings big time, didnt destroy it. they nerded gdb, destroyed it. and to put icing on the cake, they nerfed blocking for what ever reason. that finished the class off

i mean seriously. burst damage has been a problem forever not tanks. why was the answer to make it easier for damage dealers? i dont get it.

Because people with burst builds cried that they couldn't instantly melt people who held block. Blocking wasn't a problem. It was just annoying. It really shouldn't have been nerfed. Especially that hard. I want to see scaled armor give physical resistance too, talons 8m range, fix dragon blood and give ash cloud major evasion. I would like to see a passive give like 50% stam regen while blocking but I know that won't happen.

I remember a while back I found the best method of getting past perma-blockers was to be a NB vamp and just feed on them. There were counters to blocking, all ZOS needed to do was have more rapid attack skills to act as more direct counters.

BalgusFlinn · December 2015

*******Make dragon blood heal the full 33% in cyrodill.********

*Have Obsidian Shield give a better shield, since using it is a risk since people run shieldbreaker.

*Make a stam morph whip.

*Buff the damage on whip. Right now its a Flaming Noodle.

*Deep breath was over nerfed, give it a buff.

*Ash cloud giving major evasion while in the cloud, and minor evasion for 2 sec after you leave it.

frozywozy · December 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

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Joy_Division wrote: »

When people say that "stamina DKs are good," aren't they really saying:
Stamina is strong in PvP at the moment

Having a cheap high damaging physical ultimate that scales off Mighty is tailor-made for two-handed weapon users

Alcast can pull some high burst damage with molten armaments and a bow

I do not interpret this as a ringing endorsement for the Dragonknight as a class.

s&b stam dk is really strong atm, the eu duel tournament proved that quite well
Alcast is using a oneshot build, it's PvE not PvP, I wouldn't take that into account at all.

KillKapps wrote: »

Also stam dk isn't even good b/c its a dk with the exception of dragons leap. Eveything about a stam dk is passives and weapon abilities.

frozywozy · December 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do people still bother? We had a 24 page in depth discussion courtesy of Jules and we got a whole lot of nothing from that.

Do you guys just like venting or whats the deal? We've taken ZOS' hand and walked them through every possible issue yet people still take time out of their day to create duplicate threads and reiterate the same conversations over and over. You guys are either extremely patient, suffer memory loss, or just down right stubborn.

Could this topic be beaten to death any more? Let's find out!

We got alot out of what people have been complaining about. Zenimax said plenty of times that DKs will get major changes but they won't touch class balance until the next major update (Thieve's guild DLC) in march.

_Chaos · December 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

show previous quotes

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do people still bother? We had a 24 page in depth discussion courtesy of Jules and we got a whole lot of nothing from that.

Do you guys just like venting or whats the deal? We've taken ZOS' hand and walked them through every possible issue yet people still take time out of their day to create duplicate threads and reiterate the same conversations over and over. You guys are either extremely patient, suffer memory loss, or just down right stubborn.

Could this topic be beaten to death any more? Let's find out!

We got alot out of what people have been complaining about. Zenimax said plenty of times that DKs will get major changes but they won't touch class balance until the next major update (Thieve's guild DLC) in march.

Major changes just in time for major content updates?
Wonder how long those new bugged skills will be glitched out while they work to put out broken content fires.

They quite clearly have zero idea what level loading is.

frozywozy · December 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

frozywozy wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Why do people still bother? We had a 24 page in depth discussion courtesy of Jules and we got a whole lot of nothing from that.

Do you guys just like venting or whats the deal? We've taken ZOS' hand and walked them through every possible issue yet people still take time out of their day to create duplicate threads and reiterate the same conversations over and over. You guys are either extremely patient, suffer memory loss, or just down right stubborn.

Could this topic be beaten to death any more? Let's find out!

We got alot out of what people have been complaining about. Zenimax said plenty of times that DKs will get major changes but they won't touch class balance until the next major update (Thieve's guild DLC) in march.

Major changes just in time for major content updates?
Wonder how long those new bugged skills will be glitched out while they work to put out broken content fires.

They quite clearly have zero idea what level loading is.

Oh I agree, Zenimax should do small incremental balance fixes every 2weeks instead of releasing a major update without suffisant testing that add more or less problems.

IxskullzxI · December 2015

I don't get why ZOS doesn't start adding some of these class balance changes on the PTS now so they actually have more than 3 weeks of feedback. Plus, they could implement changes slowly and see how it plays out instead of just dumping tons of changes all at once and completely messing everything up.

CP5 · December 2015

IxskullzxI wrote: »

I don't get why ZOS doesn't start adding some of these class balance changes on the PTS now so they actually have more than 3 weeks of feedback. Plus, they could implement changes slowly and see how it plays out instead of just dumping tons of changes all at once and completely messing everything up.

Despite how often they have said during their live streams that they want to do 'small incremental changes' and make it so 'players don't have to relearn the game' they show no inclination right now in doing so.

Teargrants · December 2015

There is so much obfuscation in this thread, I can't believe you all ignore the REAL buff that DK needs.

DKs need a passive for increased siege damage!

Please get out of here with all of your silly mumbo jumbo about buffing DK skills. The DK of the future wont have skills slotted anyway.

Rakno87 · May 2019

Best fix for DK Stam or Mag Wings need to be a cleanse!!!!!

ZOS_RogerJ · May 2019

Greetings! We've closed this thread given its age, as information may be out of date. If you wish to continue this topic please create a new thread.