Dragon Knight Balance Theories

Rubixy

So we all agree that the dragon night has been Over powered in the past. Noted. But the current class is under powered in comparison to some other classes, dont get me wrong its usable, personalty i play magica dk and I do well for myself but here are some skill changes that could balance out the class while not making it "overpowered"
1. Dragon Blood: Now the morphs of dragon blood are fine in my opinion, a nice stamina boost on one end and a good heal buff on the other. The main heal is the problem, a simple change from "restore 33% of missing health" to "Restore 33% of max health, increasing up to 200% based on missing health" would be all we would need. Now, before anyone throws out the OP card here is a simple reason this would not "break" anything. Dks dont have a gap closer or an easy means of escape, fine but at least give us a half decent heal so we dont have to rely on a *** heal bubble which either doesn't go to the caster or micro stuns you while you cast it and move. Besides while testing out Dragon blood at 5 percent health with igneous shield i got a 6.9k heal, not to mention that random Templar next to me kept healing me for 18k, like really.

2. Burning Talons: Is it just me or does it seem like this skill doesnt know what it is suppose to be. Ok so it costs magica, deals a physical off the bat damage, a flame dot and then a magica synergy. Make up your mind zennimax. Now what is an easy fix you might ask, simple. Magica damage, flame dot, and physical synnergy. BAM its ok now considering in large group fights its my only aoe.

3. Inhale: Now personaly i love this skill but feel as if i cant use it because its just not competitive: Night blades have a skill that has no cap that not only heals them for every person hit, but damages them and gives the caster a 20 percent damage buff. I MEAN COME ON! Now being that the main source of Damage from this abilty doesnt occur until 2 seconds after its casted, the easy fix would be to remove the 3 person cap on it, like why is that even there, its a mediocre heal is cyrodiil anyway. come on throw a dk a bone.

4.Inferno: what the *** is this skill. nuff said.

5.Igenious shield: I love this skill and being our only damage skill its definitely a must use ability to succeed, but why is that at 26k health and 10 percent extra strength from bastion its a 4k damage shield, meanwhile sorcs just stroll around with a 12k ward for no reason. I think a slight buff to the shields strength would be just and deserved. Also ever since the frag shield nerf, (which needed to happen) the skill seems deserted and I feel like everyone can agree that it needs a revamp.

These in my opinion are the top 5 Dragon Knight abilities that need some looking at. Please share your ideas and lets get some one from zos to notice this, All i want is for DKs to be more competitive with other classes in PVP, or fly, I would also be okay with flying.

#NERFMAGICADK

imredneckson

Rubixy wrote: »

So we all agree that the dragon night has been Over powered in the past. Noted. But the current class is under powered in comparison to some other classes, dont get me wrong its usable, personalty i play magica dk and I do well for myself but here are some skill changes that could balance out the class while not making it "overpowered"
1. Dragon Blood: Now the morphs of dragon blood are fine in my opinion, a nice stamina boost on one end and a good heal buff on the other. The main heal is the problem, a simple change from "restore 33% of missing health" to "Restore 33% of max health, increasing up to 200% based on missing health" would be all we would need. Now, before anyone throws out the OP card here is a simple reason this would not "break" anything. Dks dont have a gap closer or an easy means of escape, fine but at least give us a half decent heal so we dont have to rely on a *** heal bubble which either doesn't go to the caster or micro stuns you while you cast it and move. Besides while testing out Dragon blood at 5 percent health with igneous shield i got a 6.9k heal, not to mention that random Templar next to me kept healing me for 18k, like really.

2. Burning Talons: Is it just me or does it seem like this skill doesnt know what it is suppose to be. Ok so it costs magica, deals a physical off the bat damage, a flame dot and then a magica synergy. Make up your mind zennimax. Now what is an easy fix you might ask, simple. Magica damage, flame dot, and physical synnergy. BAM its ok now considering in large group fights its my only aoe.

3. Inhale: Now personaly i love this skill but feel as if i cant use it because its just not competitive: Night blades have a skill that has no cap that not only heals them for every person hit, but damages them and gives the caster a 20 percent damage buff. I MEAN COME ON! Now being that the main source of Damage from this abilty doesnt occur until 2 seconds after its casted, the easy fix would be to remove the 3 person cap on it, like why is that even there, its a mediocre heal is cyrodiil anyway. come on throw a dk a bone.

4.Inferno: what the *** is this skill. nuff said.

5.Igenious shield: I love this skill and being our only damage skill its definitely a must use ability to succeed, but why is that at 26k health and 10 percent extra strength from bastion its a 4k damage shield, meanwhile sorcs just stroll around with a 12k ward for no reason. I think a slight buff to the shields strength would be just and deserved. Also ever since the frag shield nerf, (which needed to happen) the skill seems deserted and I feel like everyone can agree that it needs a revamp.

These in my opinion are the top 5 Dragon Knight abilities that need some looking at. Please share your ideas and lets get some one from zos to notice this, All i want is for DKs to be more competitive with other classes in PVP, or fly, I would also be okay with flying.

#NERFMAGICADK

Agreed your magicka DK needs a nerf but everyone else needs a buff . I loved playing a magicka DK but after the changes ZOS made I felt weak so swapped to my stamknight sniper. Please ZOS help magicka DKs

themdogesbite

Ult nerf, damage nerfs, heal nerfs and block nerf all togheter just made mana DK to weak to keep up atm. No defense and to bad offense compareable to other classes.

Bashev

Good points.
It looks like everybody on the forums knows where is the problem with the magicka DKs except ZoS.

imredneckson

Bashev wrote: »

Good points.
It looks like everybody on the forums knows where is the problem with the magicka DKs except ZoS.

I think they know but I don't know why its taking so long to fix or why they haven't said anything regarding any buff or fixes

Asmael

You had a look at Sypher's video about magicka DK issues I bet, the comments about Burning talons make me think so.

Few things:
1) You don't want to buff stam DKs as they are in a pretty good spot right now
2) You want to be careful about increasing magicka DPS as they're already good in PvE
3) What did magicka DK have? Defense, survivability, being able to stand their ground, not anymore.

What I pick here are some of @Sypher 's own suggestions that I agree with:
- Increasing Inhale's max targets from 3 to 6
- Giving Ash Cloud a major evasion buff to the caster as long as you stand in it
- Consider Stonefist for a stamina morph (which makes sense for stamina DK -> pure physical strength ~= earth element)
- Igneous Shield should get some extra shield (but nowhere near what sorcerers have) *
- Change Dragon Blood. What you, OP, posted, is downright OP, because, based on your own math, that's 100% healing at all time (50% in Cyro), so I'll firmly disagree with it. **
- Corrosive Armor grants magic penetration

* You know a shield has an issue when it's used mostly for a side effect and not the shield itself
* * Something needs to be said and I've yet to see a single person mention it: Dragon blood does NOT benefit from critical healing. Healing from 4-5k top would be fine with a chance to crit, since 50% crit chance is already a 25% increase in healing done

Things mentioned by Sypher that I disagree with:
- Inferno changes all damage done to Flame damage => causes blatant PvE imbalance, yes, this ability is plain useless, but this is not the fix that should be done
- Lava whip damage increase => See point 2)

Hopefully, these changes would increase DK's survivability without granting them too much power at the same time.

EXTRAS:
- Fix chains
- Fix the other morph of Petrify
- Fix wingz that let projectiles go thru
- Reduce Standard's cost by 50
- Redesign Inferno

IxSTALKERxI

Get rid of battle spirit and balance the game properly instead of putting blanket nerfs on everything.

Armitas

Asmael wrote: »

You had a look at Sypher's video about magicka DK issues I bet, the comments about Burning talons make me think so.

Brilliant video from Sypher, spot on. There is even more broke than I previously realized and I didn't even know there was even room for more broke. When you see it all put together like that it just blows your mind that it has been that way...in a state of complete neglect and ambivalence...for this long.

Lol at talons, 3 freaking damage sources. What D heck.

Xsorus

The thing that hit magicka dks the most is the block nerf, which is one of the worst changes I've seen done in this game to appease bad players.

they basically came a long and gutted magicka dks defense while leaving in shield spamming sorcs and giving magicka dodge in the form of cloak to magicka nightblades.

Rayste

Rubixy wrote: »

4.Inferno: what the *** is this skill. nuff said.

5.Igenious shield: I love this skill and being our only damage skill its definitely a must use ability to succeed, but why is that at 26k health and 10 percent extra strength from bastion its a 4k damage shield, meanwhile sorcs just stroll around with a 12k ward for no reason. I think a slight buff to the shields strength would be just and deserved. Also ever since the frag shield nerf, (which needed to happen) the skill seems deserted and I feel like everyone can agree that it needs a revamp.

#NERFMAGICADK

4. The crit increase is fine, but the DOT is super weak. I agree, this one could use some love. More damage or maybe a morph for stam/magicka increase. Expert hunter is currently a much better option.
5. Agreed. Would love for a buff to this shield.

Waylander

Inferno:
Morph 1: Flames of Oblivion: Erupt in fire causing x flame damage (12m radius) and apply an 8 second major speed buff. Not a toggle. (PvP)
Morph 2: Sea of Flames: Fire dot and increase spell and weapon critical. Toggle. (PvE)

Ash Cloud
Morph 1: Cinder Storm: Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing (x) Flame Damage to enemies every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds. Grants Major Evasion whilst DK is within radius of ability.
Morph 2: Eruption: Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, dealing an instant (x) Flame Damage to nearby enemies and (y) Flame Damage more every 0.5 seconds for 15 seconds.
Also reduces enemies' Movement Speed by 70%.

Hektik_V

Rubixy wrote: »

3. Inhale: Now personaly i love this skill but feel as if i cant use it because its just not competitive: Night blades have a skill that has no cap that not only heals them for every person hit, but damages them and gives the caster a 20 percent damage buff. I MEAN COME ON! Now being that the main source of Damage from this abilty doesnt occur until 2 seconds after its casted, the easy fix would be to remove the 3 person cap on it, like why is that even there, its a mediocre heal is cyrodiil anyway. come on throw a dk a bone.

Inhale should ideally restore some form of magicka and stamina, while doing the damage upfront opposed to having to wait 2+ seconds for it. That would help make magicka dragonknight more viable while not increasing PvE dragonknight DPS even higher.

ArgoCye

Stam DKs are okay, but other than dragon leap, I don't know that they have as many go-to abilities as NBs or, arguably, sorcs.

If reflective scales reflected damage for four seconds (no missile max), flames of oblivion threw out some sort of debuff and GDB was more like why Rubixy noted (although I think it still works okay in PVE) - then it would make those skills more useful for stam builds. As it stands vigor is a much better heal and expert hunter a better crit buff. I am still trying to work out what fiery breath is all about and don't get me started about molten weapons (does anyone use that?).

Be nice if they addressed some of the passives in the ardent flame tree and buffed the elder dragon passive, but a few ability tweaks would be a nice place to start.

CP5

Some good points, really wish ZOS would make up their minds about class based offensive heals. Templars and NB's have their aoe skill that heals uncapped, but DK's got the harsh 3 target cap and sorcs barely got away from the 1s cooldown for surge. Just wish staying alive was a more viable option without having to stack insane damage to either quickly kill your opponent or get decent heals. Also why is everyone focused on buffing igneous shields power? No one really uses the other morph, don't pull a ZOS and buff the popular morph and leave the other in the dust.

And guessing i'll have this be a mandatory thing but, dk's have 2 gap closers.

Forestd16b14_ESO

My 2 cents.

Spiked armor: Changed to have a stamina and maigcka morph to be like volatile armor. For stamina version on activation deal physical DOT damage to nearby enemies and reflect physical melee strikes and of course cost stamina and vis versa with with it's magicka version. Magic damage on activation reflects magicka based melee strikes and cost magicka.

Dark talons: Same as armor one magicka and one stamina. The stamina one clearly being chocking talons.

Alucardo

Most of these suggestions are going to be targeted towards Magicka DK. Stam is in a decent place compared to their magicka counterpart.

- Increase damage shield on Igneous shield a little. Useful utility for major mending, but it just goes down way too quick.
- Give Magicka DK an execute. Their DPS is not really on par with other classes and specs. They need that execute to help close deals just like everyone else (don't give me that crap about uniqueness. We're talking about a standard combat feature here)/
- I like the major evasion while inside ash cloud idea as stated above
- Give DB back its full 33% heal (without the reduction in Cyrodiil), or turn it into a HoT as a magicka based equivalent of Vigor
- Kindling Rank II should also allow Lava Whip and its morphs to crit damage shields (will help Magicka DKs get through bubbles a bit easier)
- Buff inhale (affecting more than 3 targets would be great)
- Change inferno into something more useful, like major sorcery

KillKapps

I love this post. We need to blow this *** up so that the world sees it.

-Dragons blood literally just needs to go back to the way it was. If you don't *** like it. Hit me with a god damn disease enchant you idiot!

Skills get nerfed in this game because people are too dumb to counter them. With the exception of camo hunter, that ***'s been broken in almost every patch. Get rid of that garbage.

KillKapps

Also stam dk isn't even good b/c its a dk with the exception of dragons leap. Eveything about a stam dk is passives and weapon abilities.

wrathofrraath

I always thought id be nice to have an igneous shield morph that can combine the group shields into a single shield for the caster only (that doesnt overide the tank's group shield) and the other morph stay as is, a stronger shield for the tank and smaller shields for the group so the tank can still give everyone a shield.

Joy_Division

When people say that "stamina DKs are good," aren't they really saying:

• Stamina is strong in PvP at the moment
• Having a cheap high damaging physical ultimate that scales off Mighty is tailor-made for two-handed weapon users
• Alcast can pull some high burst damage with molten armaments and a bow

I do not interpret this as a ringing endorsement for the Dragonknight as a class.

BuggeX

Rubixy wrote: »

1. Dragon Blood: Now the morphs of dragon blood are fine in my opinion, a nice stamina boost on one end and a good heal buff on the other. The main heal is the problem, a simple change from "restore 33% of missing health" to "Restore 33% of max health, increasing up to 200% based on missing health" would be all we would need. Now, before anyone throws out the OP card here is a simple reason this would not "break" anything. Dks dont have a gap closer or an easy means of escape, fine but at least give us a half decent heal so we dont have to rely on a *** heal bubble which either doesn't go to the caster or micro stuns you while you cast it and move. Besides while testing out Dragon blood at 5 percent health with igneous shield i got a 6.9k heal, not to mention that random Templar next to me kept healing me for 18k, like really.

They have to overhaul the whole db, db should be based on max health no missing health.

Rubixy wrote: »

2. Burning Talons: Is it just me or does it seem like this skill doesnt know what it is suppose to be. Ok so it costs magica, deals a physical off the bat damage, a flame dot and then a magica synergy. Make up your mind zennimax. Now what is an easy fix you might ask, simple. Magica damage, flame dot, and physical synnergy. BAM its ok now considering in large group fights its my only aoe.

mehh i never noticed this ***......... that explain why my dot hits harder than the initial hit lol

Rubixy wrote: »

3. Inhale: Now personaly i love this skill but feel as if i cant use it because its just not competitive: Night blades have a skill that has no cap that not only heals them for every person hit, but damages them and gives the caster a 20 percent damage buff. I MEAN COME ON! Now being that the main source of Damage from this abilty doesnt occur until 2 seconds after its casted, the easy fix would be to remove the 3 person cap on it, like why is that even there, its a mediocre heal is cyrodiil anyway. come on throw a dk a bone.

i dont know, i like this skill, its powerfull.
but its to random, when i get beamed or someone is casting near me, inhale will never hit him NEVER.

Rubixy wrote: »

4.Inferno: what the *** is this skill. nuff said.

#wantoldinfernoback

Rubixy wrote: »

5.Igenious shield: I love this skill and being our only damage skill its definitely a must use ability to succeed, but why is that at 26k health and 10 percent extra strength from bastion its a 4k damage shield, meanwhile sorcs just stroll around with a 12k ward for no reason. I think a slight buff to the shields strength would be just and deserved. Also ever since the frag shield nerf, (which needed to happen) the skill seems deserted and I feel like everyone can agree that it needs a revamp.

the worst about this is, i cast it to restor Stamina as a mag user, i get *** by shildbraker......
a other Dk casting IS near me, i get *** by shildbraker.....
but well this is the only viable skill to proc the Stamina recover passiv.


Chains:
Lets take a look at it. im running now 3 days with it instead of Invasion.
Infact, chains are awesom, they *** rock...... if they work.
no sorc is able to escape, you can grap out some ppls from zergs, like bridge zergs.
if someone want to enter a door, and you time the chain, they get pulled back out.
BUT, chains simplay doesnt work near keeps/outposts, i guess zos simplay disabled the skill near them cause they
were to lazy to fix them actually...... @ZOS cmon wtf is this ***.


Eruptiv Weapons (other Morph from molten arament)
Remake this one as a firedmg execute buff,
or a other kinde of execute for magicka users,
why do we not have a execute..... my execute right now is dawnbraker or Shooting star.... wtf zos.

KillKapps

I can fully accept not having an execute or a gap closer, if I can only get my dragons blood and block back to the way they were.

Etaniel

Joy_Division wrote: »

When people say that "stamina DKs are good," aren't they really saying:

• Stamina is strong in PvP at the moment
• Having a cheap high damaging physical ultimate that scales off Mighty is tailor-made for two-handed weapon users
• Alcast can pull some high burst damage with molten armaments and a bow

I do not interpret this as a ringing endorsement for the Dragonknight as a class.

s&b stam dk is really strong atm, the eu duel tournament proved that quite well
Alcast is using a oneshot build, it's PvE not PvP, I wouldn't take that into account at all.

pjwb16_ESO

Rubixy wrote: »

So we all agree that the dragon night has been Over powered in the past.

Everything was once OP, 110% Mitigation Nightblades, 0 Bats Costs Sorcs, Streak into Negate Sorcs, uncapped talons and deep breath, Blazing Shield Hulk mode etc etc, but magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that

Ghostbane

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

Cinbri

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

show previous quotes

Rubixy wrote: »

So we all agree that the dragon night has been Over powered in the past.

Everything was once OP, 110% Mitigation Nightblades, 0 Bats Costs Sorcs, Streak into Negate Sorcs, uncapped talons and deep breath, Blazing Shield Hulk mode etc etc, but magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that

That was a gold unbalanced time when each run in Cyro brought joy no matter what. Since balancing begun, everything beceme boring and sad. I agree that magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that, but only coz templars were always bad. After magicka dks got heavy nerfs, i can only say "hello, dudes. Welcome to templar league, wanna some bear?"

Asmael

Cinbri wrote: »

show previous quotes

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Rubixy wrote: »

So we all agree that the dragon night has been Over powered in the past.

Everything was once OP, 110% Mitigation Nightblades, 0 Bats Costs Sorcs, Streak into Negate Sorcs, uncapped talons and deep breath, Blazing Shield Hulk mode etc etc, but magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that

That was a gold unbalanced time when each run in Cyro brought joy no matter what. Since balancing begun, everything beceme boring and sad. I agree that magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that, but only coz templars were always bad. After magicka dks got heavy nerfs, i can only say "hello, dudes. Welcome to templar league, wanna some bear?"

Bombplar says hello

_Chaos

Why do people still bother? We had a 24 page in depth discussion courtesy of Jules and we got a whole lot of nothing from that.

Do you guys just like venting or whats the deal? We've taken ZOS' hand and walked them through every possible issue yet people still take time out of their day to create duplicate threads and reiterate the same conversations over and over. You guys are either extremely patient, suffer memory loss, or just down right stubborn.

Could this topic be beaten to death any more? Let's find out!

Cinbri

Asmael wrote: »

show previous quotes

Cinbri wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Rubixy wrote: »

So we all agree that the dragon night has been Over powered in the past.

Everything was once OP, 110% Mitigation Nightblades, 0 Bats Costs Sorcs, Streak into Negate Sorcs, uncapped talons and deep breath, Blazing Shield Hulk mode etc etc, but magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that

That was a gold unbalanced time when each run in Cyro brought joy no matter what. Since balancing begun, everything beceme boring and sad. I agree that magicka dks were the only ones that got destroyed after that, but only coz templars were always bad. After magicka dks got heavy nerfs, i can only say "hello, dudes. Welcome to templar league, wanna some bear?"

Bombplar says hello

Best example how bad templar was indeed

EdTerra

Why do people still bother?

that's pretty simple :
ESO is in a bad situation with BDO's release inc.
Many players already target this new game, and more will follow them if nothing is done in ESO.

so now, they have no choice, this is the market's law, they listen us or they will lose their jobs
the potential of the game have to be online before the BDO's release

CP5

Ghostbane wrote: »

Do any other classes have a % based heal?

As broken as things are, I would be quite happy if the self heal was just fixed. That would be enough to get something rolling effectively. I have been trooping about the last week as a magicka DK, the big pit fall is heals ( no, I don't want a restro staff, cheers )

I don't know if PVE would complain if DB was changed to a flat value. This is why I ask if any other classes have % based heals. Battle Spirit could have a sub-rule wrote in to ignore halving % based heal abilities. Flat values would continue to be halved.

To answer that question yes, NB's have the burst heal from killers blade and mark target, Sorc's also have a few, blood magic passive, and the clannfear/matriarch heals.