thankyourat wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Oh boy so much talking about which ability does more dmg and how much more when people could just simply look at skill coefficients to know it instantly.

For the record here is formula for scaling merciless : 0.206581 Magicka + 2.16898 SD
and here is formula for frag : 0.154773 Magicka + 1.62437 SD now when it procs it'll be 0,185679 Magicka + 1,94967 SD

So merciless have ~11,25% stronger scaling from stats then procced frag. Merciless can be further buffed by death stroke ultimate debuff which will make merciless max possible hits way higher then crystal fragment max hits.

I think that's what all magblades are upset about. You basically made the point for the magblades. merciless only does basically 11% more damage than Crystal frag and it would actually be a little less than that when you factor in what is viable gear for PvP for each class. So basically you have a skill that requires much more skill and micromanagement in merciless only hitting for slightly more damage than Crystal frag.

Like I mentioned earlier just switch your gear from sorc to magblade and test the damage on a player with one defensive set and 3k crit resit and see which one hits harder. You will see that the damage will be pretty comparable. Now the question is do you feel merciless doing comparable damage in PvP to Crystal frag is balance when you look at all the prerequisites of merciless? I don't and I believe merciless needs an additional effect to make it not be outclassed for PvP by Crystal frag.

Adding the extra 20% from soul harvest has nothing to do with merciless and is like saying a sorc can combine curse and pets to go off at the same time Crystal frag lands. Neither argument has anything to do with merciless vs frag comparison.

11% is enough to not cry about it. I did not made point for anyone people like always will just interpretate numbers the way that suits their arguments. Magblade and magsorc can use basically the same gear in PvP and to be fair it's actually magblade who have more viable choices since there are setups working better for stealth playstyle. Actually when You factor gear and class passives merciless will go even slightly higher then 11% due to magblade having 8% max mag passive while his mag is sually higher and magsorc having 2% spell dmg passive per class ability but his base spell dmg is usually low. Micromanagment is thing inside the class kit comparing ability 1 to 1 without full context of what part of the certain class kit is it makes no sense and only serves forced argumentations. Both merciless and frag have it's own different micromanagment which is a part of their class toolkit.

If You'll switch that gear Your merciless will always hit harder on the same player then frag does. COmparing things 1 to 1 makes no sense. Each ability is part of the larger picture and comparing those directly is simply taking things out of context. Mecriless is hardest hitting non ultimate ability in the game so I dont know why would anyone sane expect for it to hit even stronger especially that it can be further buffed by class kit.

Adding 20% dmg from soul harvest jave everything to do with it. Well it's funny You acknowledge that sorcs have their combos but You want to avoid the fact that magblades have theirs ? Thing is that with soul harvest You'll create burst combo where merciless will hit for over 30% more then frag and that is something You simply cannot ignore. Each class have it's own features and as I said comparing 1 thing to another without fuil context is missing the point.

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Crystal frags proc'd base damage:
9518 × 1.2 = 11422
Relentless/Merciless base damage:
11815 / 12707

Relentless proc is only 3.4% stronger than a proc'd frag, frag is up after an average of 3 gcd's, bow is up after 5 gcd's.

Nb bow does 3-5% more damage but frags procs 66% more often, you be the judge.


https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crystal_Shard
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Grim_Focus

The numbers you presented are showing more than 10% difference. So relentless deals 10%+ more dmg than fras while also having secondary effects. Frags has no secondary effects. You honestly want it to have similar proc conditions with frag? lol

HaruKamui wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

More than anything, I'm tired of the circus that is ZOS game design which is far too fluid for such a mature product. Where there should be tweaks, there are constant upheavals. The gameplay I enjoyed the most in 2.1 and 2.2 does not exist anymore.

Why is it okay for PVP Magblade to be nerfed when it's not over-performing? Why aren't the actually over-performing PVP specs being addressed? "Because Trials" is not an acceptable answer.

A lot of the changes actually suit my preferred Magblade style which I haven't really played since 3.1 or so. When used optimally, the changes might be OP. But the class is so AWKWARD. No other class has to jump through a hoop for their class sustain, class burst and class defense/healing. When I imagine playing Magblade optimally in Elsweyr, it doesn't seem fun at all.

I'm sick of this company and their willingness to treat some segments of their playerbase as second class citizens. PVP Magblade gets crapped on over and over because it's not popular so zos, like its players, takes the path of least resistance. If this happened to one of the popular PVP specs, ZOS would have walked it back already.

I guess when you make your money from selling cosmetics, you can be completely whimsical about combat design. ESO gameplay designers are being carried by their art team and the TES brand.

We have exactly the same sentiments, point per point. Next patch, us magblades will be in our best form since a long time now, but the hoops we have to just through just to be able to perform on that level is ridiculous, when you compare it to magsorcs, the only reason you'd play magblades over magsorcs is because you like the trickster/assassin archetype. The margin of error when playing as magblade is stil very very small.


@Juhasow, Yes soul harvest+bow proc is very good damage. As you said, we have to take into account the entire kit.

for magblades, we have to have done 5 light attacks and have the ult up, go to melee range, and do our burst (which is unreliable because the added travel time to spectral bow makes it so good people can dodge it if they cc break from mass hysteria quickly. The minimum travel time is getting changed though so i'm optimistic about that.)

for mag sorcs, they have the frags proc up every 3 seconds, they can time it with the curse which is undodgeable and is up every 3.5 seconds, AND they have an undodgeable execute (once already applied), and it can all be done at range.

So yeah.

Well that goes along the general idea of nightblade as a class. High risk high reward. To get full potential of Your class burst You need to risk coming closer to the enemy. That is why mass hysteria is also meele stun. It's very strong but only if You come close to enemy (although personally I would like to see agony as a stun back). If that wouldnt be the case and death stroke would be range ult for example nb would be just braindead one shotter. Magblade issues in PvP have nothing to do with it's dmg (except fighting DKs ofc). Magblade have more then enough damage to kill opponents problem lies in issues with delivering that dmg reliably due to current abuse of snares , AoEs , lack of reasonable healing etc. As for frag yeah You can get it procced every 3 seconds but You can also not get any proc for 15 seconds especially if You're in defense where nb for example can still build up stacks and even use merciless as a way to turn the odds. Curse is not up once every 3,5 seconds more like once every 5 seconds at best since You need time between exploding and recasting. As for undodgable execute wel yeah 1st You need to land it on enemy which lately is kinda chore to the point many setups especially petsorcs stopped to use it. Saying what sorc have and ignoring what nb have brings us nowhere. There is plenty of features that sorc would give up to get nightblade features.

Magsorcs are just in better position right now because their defense in open fight is easier but when it comes to damage magblade have higher damage then magsorc in PvP problem is he simply cannot currently perform that dmg freely. Magblade pays high price for having acces to invisibility because when it works it's extremly effective feature problem is lately it's not working that well on magblades that dont want to be pure one shot gankers.

Zedrian wrote: »

about the nb bow vs. sorc crystal... Even if the crystal base tooltip damage is lower you get 20% buff on the next crystal AND you can proc way more times the crystal than the bow. Comparing a static rotation you would compare 2 bows versus maybe 4-5 crystals in the same amount of time?

And your light attacks actually need to register... Sometimes i have the console crosshair on Zmaja or Saint Olms (big hitboxes) and see my light attack go completely off track or in between the legs

When it comes to static PvE rotation You actually get similar amount of frags and merciless procs and definietly that ratio is not on average 2 times higher for crystal frag. Also merciless still have higher tooltip then already procced crystal with 20% dmg buff.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Yeah let's compare Frags with Grim Focus, complain about Nightblade passives and completely ignore that Frags get buffed by Amplitude up to 10% more damage (I think it's even calculated on impact which makes this passive superior to Minor Berserc), are up more often, give more peak pressure because it can proc several times in a row and don't need to be activated to even be able to proc them.

After what they're doing to Nbs it would be just fair to remove Amplitude (turn it into a stam only passive), cut Twilight damage by 50%, give Frags a forced cooldown, making Deadric Prey a stamina morph and maybe even make it avoidable (without Purge).

Legends say sorcs are spamming frag procs like a machine gun and NBs are casting merciless once a day.