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Necros Are Very OP In PvP (At This Time)
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Neloth✭✭✭✭
Stamplar has no class execute, DK has no class execute, warden has no class execute. Nothing new there. God forbid should necros have to do what most other classes do.
You can't be serious here
Stamplars and stamDKs are irrelevant, because weapon executes outperform ANY class execute by a mile (at least on live)
magDKs not having an execute is an issue for some players, and you can see frequent threads about it. I don't have a clear opinion on this problem, but undodgable leap, good synergy with scoria and dots help DKs to secure their kills, when no-one is stealing them.
magdens not having an execute is one of fundamental issues of the class (which is generally weak in solo PvP and duels), and it's hard to argue about that. Keep in mind that they have 20k+ dot, compared to magnecro, and when the class was originally designed, their spammable and burst used to be much much stronger (bird was undodgable, shalks stunned and were unblockable).
in the meantime, magnecros don't have:
1) good dots
2) execute
3) good CC
4) strong class spammables
So generally, if we leave their ults aside, they are VERY weak offensively.
So yes, currently magnecros are carried by ultimates, few passives and strong defensive mechanics, but you suggest to nerf them all, not giving anything in return.
Wtf is that kind of logic? Are you stamblade main?2 -
Neloth✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
But current PTS system is completely flawed
Casual people come to PTS, see their favorite class neerfed, and start crying and asking ZoS to nerf other classes
“Nerf this, nerf that, nerf him, don’t nerf me”
This results into a nerf train coming through all classes every update, making many of them not fun to play
Want examples? Look at magblade changes of last 2 years, class got gutted to the point that it’s Imperial City balance was much better than the current one
Magsorc changed into a petsorc, which is not fun to play as or against. And so on...
ZoS should just reduce PTS section into bug reports, and spend their time discussing balance with selected class reps (which are generally competent and know what they do), instead of wasting their time reading such QQ threads like this one
Edited by Neloth on April 26, 2019 9:32AM0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Stamplar has no class execute, DK has no class execute, warden has no class execute. Nothing new there. God forbid should necros have to do what most other classes do.
You can't be serious here
Stamplars and stamDKs are irrelevant, because weapon executes outperform ANY class execute by a mile (at least on live)
magDKs not having an execute is an issue for some players, and you can see frequent threads about it. I don't have a clear opinion on this problem, but undodgable leap, good synergy with scoria and dots help DKs to secure their kills, when no-one is stealing them.
magdens not having an execute is one of fundamental issues of the class (which is generally weak in solo PvP and duels), and it's hard to argue about that. Keep in mind that they have 20k+ dot, compared to magnecro, and when the class was originally designed, their spammable and burst used to be much much stronger (bird was undodgable, shalks stunned and were unblockable).
in the meantime, magnecros don't have:
1) good dots
2) execute
3) good CC
4) strong class spammables
So generally, if we leave their ults aside, they are VERY weak offensively.
So yes, currently magnecros are carried by ultimates, few passives and strong defensive mechanics, but you suggest to nerf them all, not giving anything in return.
Wtf is that kind of logic? Are you stamblade main?
Stamplar. So yes I suppose I am irrelevant. That person was complaining that necros have no class executes both stam and mag. So it’s nothing new. Necros will have to work with it like anyone else. Stam can slot reverse slice if they have room. Or maybe spin to win. Should it have one? Idk. Maybe. Put away that blade before you cut yourself forum warrior. What are you a necro main?5 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This is the very first "nerf Necromancer" post in this thread that has any substance to it - thanks. Still, I don't see any way at all to get from his post that he was talking about the bash, especially since he referenced the tooltip not too long after another person in a different thread posted a screenshot of a 20k Blastbones tooltip on a PvE Stamina build. That bash damage sounds like it really needs to be tweaked, and I'm totally fine with that (I'm also fine with other changes to the Goliath, as mentioned earlier).
What 20k tooltip that's spammable? I saw one guy with a full-on PvE setup get the Stamina Blastbones that high, but mine was a little lower when I tried to replicate the exact same setup (which I assume was due to CP allocation). And Blastbones isn't exactly spammable, either. It has a 2.5 second "assembly" time, and if it's CC'd or kited, it can last for a further 5.5 seconds beyond that, during which time it cannot be recast.I mean yeah they need to nerfed a bit but you’re freaking out a bit much.
Maybe it’s my poor choice of wording, but I’m really not freaking out or screaming as some people seem to think. It’s jsut my opinion based on early experiences that Necros are quite OP. When an ult gives you an extra 30k health and can easily have a tooltip of more than 20k that’s spamable then yes I would very much say that’s incredibly OP. Think about how this will synergize with sets like Fury and 7th. You can absorb an insane amount of damage and build up crazy amounts of damage as well.
I'm open to the idea of nerfing the Goliath transformation, but not really for the same reasons as you. A Stamina build that uses the Goliath form still has the same offense as before (though with an added AOE health drain, granted), and isn't obliterating anyone with a Dawnbreaker + Blastbones combo instead (followed up with some undodgeable Spin-to-Win hitting for 6k+ damage while you're Major Defiled, if necessary for the kill). Other than a bit longer duration, I think it's inferior to Corrosive Armor for the application you've described.
Instead, I think the main issue will be Necromancer healers using the Goliath form to counter burst damage while in their organized groups. Unless you can literally 1-shot them before they transform, they're probably not going to be a valid target for most people.
He is not talking about yhe trash blastbones skill. He is talking about the Goliat bash , i get 30k+ tooltip on it, self buffed i bash crit for 65k on dummy. And the CD on bash is like 0.5 seconds. I hit players for 5-20k crits depending on the build, and this is just in 0.5 seconds, by the time you react i will be hitting you at least 3 times in a row with my freaking 70k health tank
And what's the point if you're not going to say what is OP, and/or under what circumstances? You need to take notes from @RouDeR and say just what you think the problems are. As far as I can tell, you're not a Class Rep and don't have any other status that would make your opinion(s) about balance particularly interesting to ZOS. Submitting them in a direct report is most likely of very little value if there aren't many other people who just so happen to agree with you, after they've found and tested these super secret builds that you're trying to keep hidden.Moonsorrow wrote: »
It would be much more valuable to overall game balance to lay everything out in the open so that it can get changed before it makes it to the live servers; you shouldn't expect a tiny handful of direct reports about balancing opinions to do a whole lot. But a bunch of us - and I'll agree with you if you make an actually worthwhile point - sending reports or posting on the forums is a lot more likely to get traction.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This is the very first "nerf Necromancer" post in this thread that has any substance to it - thanks. Still, I don't see any way at all to get from his post that he was talking about the bash, especially since he referenced the tooltip not too long after another person in a different thread posted a screenshot of a 20k Blastbones tooltip on a PvE Stamina build. That bash damage sounds like it really needs to be tweaked, and I'm totally fine with that (I'm also fine with other changes to the Goliath, as mentioned earlier).
What 20k tooltip that's spammable? I saw one guy with a full-on PvE setup get the Stamina Blastbones that high, but mine was a little lower when I tried to replicate the exact same setup (which I assume was due to CP allocation). And Blastbones isn't exactly spammable, either. It has a 2.5 second "assembly" time, and if it's CC'd or kited, it can last for a further 5.5 seconds beyond that, during which time it cannot be recast.I mean yeah they need to nerfed a bit but you’re freaking out a bit much.
Maybe it’s my poor choice of wording, but I’m really not freaking out or screaming as some people seem to think. It’s jsut my opinion based on early experiences that Necros are quite OP. When an ult gives you an extra 30k health and can easily have a tooltip of more than 20k that’s spamable then yes I would very much say that’s incredibly OP. Think about how this will synergize with sets like Fury and 7th. You can absorb an insane amount of damage and build up crazy amounts of damage as well.
I'm open to the idea of nerfing the Goliath transformation, but not really for the same reasons as you. A Stamina build that uses the Goliath form still has the same offense as before (though with an added AOE health drain, granted), and isn't obliterating anyone with a Dawnbreaker + Blastbones combo instead (followed up with some undodgeable Spin-to-Win hitting for 6k+ damage while you're Major Defiled, if necessary for the kill). Other than a bit longer duration, I think it's inferior to Corrosive Armor for the application you've described.
Instead, I think the main issue will be Necromancer healers using the Goliath form to counter burst damage while in their organized groups. Unless you can literally 1-shot them before they transform, they're probably not going to be a valid target for most people.
He is not talking about yhe trash blastbones skill. He is talking about the Goliat bash , i get 30k+ tooltip on it, self buffed i bash crit for 65k on dummy. And the CD on bash is like 0.5 seconds. I hit players for 5-20k crits depending on the build, and this is just in 0.5 seconds, by the time you react i will be hitting you at least 3 times in a row with my freaking 70k health tank
You sound like you’re really annoyed I’m right lol. Also I don’t read other people’s threads and then make the same post of my own. It’s funny how whenever someone posts an OP or nerf thread who isn’t a “name” people automatically assume they’re a half wit whose terrible at the game and isn’t wearing impen lol. Apparently I was making enough sense for the guy who knew what he was talking about to get it Edited by Vapirko on April 26, 2019 11:20PM1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Did you try getting out of the atro ult and then blocking the next blastbones? It's pretty helpful. Major vuln is on you for 3 seconds, you'll be alright if you block, I promise.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.1 -
wheem_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you'd properly said what you were talking about from the beginning there wouldn't have been any confusion. I don't recall you mentioning the word "Bash" until RouDeR came along and corrected the record (with a somewhat different value than you provided). You could easily have corrected what you meant before that, when it was obvious that essentially everyone else thought you were talking about the Blastbones.
This is the very first "nerf Necromancer" post in this thread that has any substance to it - thanks. Still, I don't see any way at all to get from his post that he was talking about the bash, especially since he referenced the tooltip not too long after another person in a different thread posted a screenshot of a 20k Blastbones tooltip on a PvE Stamina build. That bash damage sounds like it really needs to be tweaked, and I'm totally fine with that (I'm also fine with other changes to the Goliath, as mentioned earlier).
What 20k tooltip that's spammable? I saw one guy with a full-on PvE setup get the Stamina Blastbones that high, but mine was a little lower when I tried to replicate the exact same setup (which I assume was due to CP allocation). And Blastbones isn't exactly spammable, either. It has a 2.5 second "assembly" time, and if it's CC'd or kited, it can last for a further 5.5 seconds beyond that, during which time it cannot be recast.I mean yeah they need to nerfed a bit but you’re freaking out a bit much.
Maybe it’s my poor choice of wording, but I’m really not freaking out or screaming as some people seem to think. It’s jsut my opinion based on early experiences that Necros are quite OP. When an ult gives you an extra 30k health and can easily have a tooltip of more than 20k that’s spamable then yes I would very much say that’s incredibly OP. Think about how this will synergize with sets like Fury and 7th. You can absorb an insane amount of damage and build up crazy amounts of damage as well.
I'm open to the idea of nerfing the Goliath transformation, but not really for the same reasons as you. A Stamina build that uses the Goliath form still has the same offense as before (though with an added AOE health drain, granted), and isn't obliterating anyone with a Dawnbreaker + Blastbones combo instead (followed up with some undodgeable Spin-to-Win hitting for 6k+ damage while you're Major Defiled, if necessary for the kill). Other than a bit longer duration, I think it's inferior to Corrosive Armor for the application you've described.
Instead, I think the main issue will be Necromancer healers using the Goliath form to counter burst damage while in their organized groups. Unless you can literally 1-shot them before they transform, they're probably not going to be a valid target for most people.
He is not talking about yhe trash blastbones skill. He is talking about the Goliat bash , i get 30k+ tooltip on it, self buffed i bash crit for 65k on dummy. And the CD on bash is like 0.5 seconds. I hit players for 5-20k crits depending on the build, and this is just in 0.5 seconds, by the time you react i will be hitting you at least 3 times in a row with my freaking 70k health tank
You sound like you’re really annoyed I’m right lol. Also I don’t read other people’s threads and then make the same post of my own. It’s funny how whenever someone posts an OP or nerf thread who isn’t a “name” people automatically assume they’re a half wit whose terrible at the game and isn’t wearing impen lol. Apparently I was making enough sense for the guy who knew what he was talking about to get it
It's also worth pointing out that you seemed to level most of your accusations of overpoweredness at Magicka Necromancers, even though this Bash damage that you're now clinging to does not apply to Magicka builds (my tooltip is 3,005 with Minor Berserk active, not the 30k that RouDeR is getting on a HP-focused build). I'm also not entirely sure that such a bash-focused build would even work in no-CP; with ~15k Stam and no cost reduction, my Magicka Necromancer can throw 9 bashes before being completely dry, and that's assuming I don't need to break free or anything. Still, it's absolutely overpowered in its current form, and it's a good thing that someone was finally specific enough to demonstrate that - I'm 100% fine with some changes to the ultimate that would prevent people from being able to throw out that kind of damage that fast, especially since it'd hit everyone in front of them.
And I never said, or assumed, that you were a halfwit. I've been critical because I disagree with most of your arguments, but that's not the same thing as assuming you're stupid. As I said before, I don't have a problem admitting if I'm wrong about something, but I need evidence first.1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you'd properly said what you were talking about from the beginning there wouldn't have been any confusion. I don't recall you mentioning the word "Bash" until RouDeR came along and corrected the record (with a somewhat different value than you provided). You could easily have corrected what you meant before that, when it was obvious that essentially everyone else thought you were talking about the Blastbones.
This is the very first "nerf Necromancer" post in this thread that has any substance to it - thanks. Still, I don't see any way at all to get from his post that he was talking about the bash, especially since he referenced the tooltip not too long after another person in a different thread posted a screenshot of a 20k Blastbones tooltip on a PvE Stamina build. That bash damage sounds like it really needs to be tweaked, and I'm totally fine with that (I'm also fine with other changes to the Goliath, as mentioned earlier).
What 20k tooltip that's spammable? I saw one guy with a full-on PvE setup get the Stamina Blastbones that high, but mine was a little lower when I tried to replicate the exact same setup (which I assume was due to CP allocation). And Blastbones isn't exactly spammable, either. It has a 2.5 second "assembly" time, and if it's CC'd or kited, it can last for a further 5.5 seconds beyond that, during which time it cannot be recast.I mean yeah they need to nerfed a bit but you’re freaking out a bit much.
Maybe it’s my poor choice of wording, but I’m really not freaking out or screaming as some people seem to think. It’s jsut my opinion based on early experiences that Necros are quite OP. When an ult gives you an extra 30k health and can easily have a tooltip of more than 20k that’s spamable then yes I would very much say that’s incredibly OP. Think about how this will synergize with sets like Fury and 7th. You can absorb an insane amount of damage and build up crazy amounts of damage as well.
I'm open to the idea of nerfing the Goliath transformation, but not really for the same reasons as you. A Stamina build that uses the Goliath form still has the same offense as before (though with an added AOE health drain, granted), and isn't obliterating anyone with a Dawnbreaker + Blastbones combo instead (followed up with some undodgeable Spin-to-Win hitting for 6k+ damage while you're Major Defiled, if necessary for the kill). Other than a bit longer duration, I think it's inferior to Corrosive Armor for the application you've described.
Instead, I think the main issue will be Necromancer healers using the Goliath form to counter burst damage while in their organized groups. Unless you can literally 1-shot them before they transform, they're probably not going to be a valid target for most people.
He is not talking about yhe trash blastbones skill. He is talking about the Goliat bash , i get 30k+ tooltip on it, self buffed i bash crit for 65k on dummy. And the CD on bash is like 0.5 seconds. I hit players for 5-20k crits depending on the build, and this is just in 0.5 seconds, by the time you react i will be hitting you at least 3 times in a row with my freaking 70k health tank
You sound like you’re really annoyed I’m right lol. Also I don’t read other people’s threads and then make the same post of my own. It’s funny how whenever someone posts an OP or nerf thread who isn’t a “name” people automatically assume they’re a half wit whose terrible at the game and isn’t wearing impen lol. Apparently I was making enough sense for the guy who knew what he was talking about to get it
It's also worth pointing out that you seemed to level most of your accusations of overpoweredness at Magicka Necromancers, even though this Bash damage that you're now clinging to does not apply to Magicka builds (my tooltip is 3,005 with Minor Berserk active, not the 30k that RouDeR is getting on a HP-focused build). I'm also not entirely sure that such a bash-focused build would even work in no-CP; with ~15k Stam and no cost reduction, my Magicka Necromancer can throw 9 bashes before being completely dry, and that's assuming I don't need to break free or anything. Still, it's absolutely overpowered in its current form, and it's a good thing that someone was finally specific enough to demonstrate that - I'm 100% fine with some changes to the ultimate that would prevent people from being able to throw out that kind of damage that fast, especially since it'd hit everyone in front of them.
And I never said, or assumed, that you were a halfwit. I've been critical because I disagree with most of your arguments, but that's not the same thing as assuming you're stupid. As I said before, I don't have a problem admitting if I'm wrong about something, but I need evidence first.
I’m referring to a variety of people in this thread. And I’ve since said that I believe stam is more manageable aside from the Goliath ult but that I still believe magicka is quite strong overall. But we can disagree on that. No issue there. I’ve added the word bash to the original post. Although I absolutely did mention initially that the OP Goliath was a stam issue.Edited by Vapirko on April 27, 2019 2:09AM0
