Necros Are Very OP In PvP (At This Time)

Vapirko

I’m not even going to write a lot about this. It’s just crazy. Went in to duel some friends on necros with my Stamplar who I switched to heavy armor so 29k resists + bloodspawn. Mag necros are like pet sorcs on steroids. You can do nothing but survive for a little while. Targeting becomes a feat of impossibility. Stamina necros can easily get tooltips of 24k with bash on the Goliath ult. It’s like having a more powerful DBoS spammed at you. The buffs and debuffs from both are crazy. Feel free to discuss. I’m just adding my personal experience, but the warden is a cake walk compared to fighting these things. For a stamplar at least we’re looking at very tough times ahead. The other issue is that with so many corpses runnng around Cyrodil is sure to lag like never before. This isn’t a new class, this is unmatched strength locked behind a paywall that completely ignores the fact that PvP already can’t handle the animations current classes have.

Fellwitch

Calling a paid expansion a pay-wall to a class is a little bit extreme; I don't even think you can complain about having to purchase the expansion in order to play a necromancer because it is more or less standard procedure for the industry.

As for the rest, I sure hope that they do not balance the game based on duels... a more important question would be, how does necro feel to play with and against in CP pvp and non-CP pvp?

I am also sure necro will be nerfed heavily into the ground approximately one or two months after the expansion goes live...

I also personally thought yeah, Necro is gonna be "imba" but after getting on PTS and trying it for myself, I honestly do not expect that many people to play it as they have to deal with very clunky mechanics and buggy targeting. It's just too much hassle.

Morgul667

Scary... thanks for the feedback

mb10

When money is involved.... balance, integrity, fairness all goes out the window

Kikke

Why are people screaming that necros are OP? They are not live yet. stop whining

Vapirko

mb10 wrote: »

When money is involved.... balance, integrity, fairness all goes out the window

I mean I get it, the business side. But this is ridiculous. Looking at how far behind some of the older classes are, and then what the necro offers, the gap is too big. And this is PTS people hvent had a chance to really play, perfect and theory craft as much. We’re going to see some god mode builds I have a feeling, if it goes live anything like this.

Vapirko

Kikke wrote: »

Why are people screaming that necros are OP? They are not live yet. stop whining

This is what the PTS forum is for, sharing feedback from personal experience and testing with new content. Also I’d hardly describe my post as screaming lol.

John_Falstaff

Kikke wrote: »

Why are people screaming that necros are OP? They are not live yet. stop whining

Well, the purpose of PTS is to prevent something OP (or the opposite) from going live, isn't it? That's the whole idea.

DeadlyRecluse

Kikke wrote: »

Why are people screaming that necros are OP? They are not live yet. stop whining

I would rather people whine now than have to whine later.

Pretty much every experienced PvPer I know who has tested Necro has expressed excitement about playing it and trepidation about its balance.

technohic

I've pretty much resigned to the fact that I will have to grind a necro as soon as possible. I don't usually follow the full meta, but there is meta and then there is "ZOMGWTF!"

Garack

Of course zos want to sell them..they nerf other damage classes kill nb then you buy necromancer and then nerf..

Vapirko

technohic wrote: »

I've pretty much resigned to the fact that I will have to grind a necro as soon as possible. I don't usually follow the full meta, but there is meta and then there is "ZOMGWTF!"

I understand this sentiment. Personally I’ve no desire to play one at all, but I recognize that’s likely to make my PvP life hell for a while. Let’s see what the third PTS week brings in terms of balance changes.

Royalthought

No stance on on the necros strength. Will i play one when it drops? yes.

But that doesnt take away the fact its behind a paywall. Alot of things in this game are. Being common changes nothing. lol.

Kinda like lies. Hear them often enough, people will believe them. There still not true.

BaylorCorvette

From my play testing it appears MagNecros are more "unbalanced" than their StamNecro counterparts. Both lack a great class CC, but Mag has access to the Fear Totem (not a great way to CC since it is easy to get out of) and their Ult will also CC. On top of that, Flame Clench is pretty common on Mag toons and could be utilized for their CC. Mag also has access to some nice debuffs as well as decent healing and purging. Now that pet damage is fixed I think BlastBones is about where it should be (compared to Warden Beetles), although the Major Defile on StamNecro is pretty strong. An ability that probably needs to be looked at seriously is the Scythe putting a conal 2k heal absorption. That seems a bit much..

Ragnaroek93

They don't feel stronger than petsorcs but I'd just say both classes are beyond OP.

Sheezabeast

Stamcro hit really hard in duels in their current state.

Zophix

I get hit for 10k - 15k with blastbones. The damage on that ability is just a bit to high.

Vapirko

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

From my play testing it appears MagNecros are more "unbalanced" than their StamNecro counterparts. Both lack a great class CC, but Mag has access to the Fear Totem (not a great way to CC since it is easy to get out of) and their Ult will also CC. On top of that, Flame Clench is pretty common on Mag toons and could be utilized for their CC. Mag also has access to some nice debuffs as well as decent healing and purging. Now that pet damage is fixed I think BlastBones is about where it should be (compared to Warden Beetles), although the Major Defile on StamNecro is pretty strong. An ability that probably needs to be looked at seriously is the Scythe putting a conal 2k heal absorption. That seems a bit much..

I agree that mag necros are quite a bit stronger than stam. I can at least deal with stam necros for the most part, unless Goliath comes up. Mag necros are next level.

TequilaFire

Problem with testing on PTS is everyone is decked out in the very best of gear.
Wish their was a way to simulate a better mixed environment.

Cadbury

From what I understand, they are dominating both in PvE and PvP.

Inb4 Necro - only runs and Necro premades

JinMori

So here are some actual facts about necro after the adjustments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSLVKtgFM0Y

Mag cro are quite on the weak side when it comes to dps, stamcro are better but they are not that much better than any other class, they are relatively the same as other stamina.

I don;t know if it's because stalking blastbones are strong in pvp because of burst, but total dps is not that good, so honestly, gtfo with your "it seems like it's too strong" and bring some actual facts.

On the first week everyone freaked out about numbers and i bet most didn;t even realize that pets critted 100 , not only that but they also critted for much more, the damage of blastbones this week is reduced from 110k to 70k, it does about the same damage as sub assault deep fissure, only that you see the 70k because of the atronach.

But p2w am i right?

Look, i criticized zos quite harshly, and intend to do so in the future, but there is not much to criticize here, they didn't make this class so strong so that everyone would buy it, it';s just not true.

Morgul667

Mag cro and stam cro feell like a french beer name

Thraben

People should calm down a bit.

1. Blastbones was/ is bugged.

2. Blastbones can be avoided by a lot of classes. This is mainly a l2p issue WHEN this skill has been fixed.

3. The Stam scythe is the Stam solo players´ only hope when ballgroups run rampart again after the patch (obviously most people haven´t noticed yet how much stronger even mediocre groups will be after the patch). This skill is really needed.

4. A MagNecro is a ranged bomber with limited survivability when caught by a half decent Stamplayer. Sounds balanced to me.

5. StamNecro is not significantly stronger than Stamblade, or StamWarden. But yeah, both are not really the benchmark.

Vapirko

JinMori wrote: »

So here are some actual facts about necro after the adjustments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSLVKtgFM0Y

Mag cro are quite on the weak side when it comes to dps, stamcro are better but they are not that much better than any other class, they are relatively the same as other stamina.

I don;t know if it's because stalking blastbones are strong in pvp because of burst, but total dps is not that good, so honestly, gtfo with your "it seems like it's too strong" and bring some actual facts.

On the first weak everyone freaked out about numbers and i bet most didn;t even realize that pets critted 100 , not only that but they also critted for much more, the damage of blastbones this week is reduced from 110k to 70k, it does about the same damage as sub assault deep fissure, only that you see the 70k because of the atronach.

But p2w am i right?

Look, i criticized zos quite harshly, and intend to do so in the future, but there is not much to criticize here, they didn't make this class so strong so that everyone would buy it, it';s just not true.

Did you read the title? PvP. So gtfo?

Thraben wrote: »

People should calm down a bit.

1. Blastbones was/ is bugged.

2. Blastbones can be avoided by a lot of classes. This is mainly a l2p issue WHEN this skill has been fixed.

3. The Stam scythe is the Stam solo players´ only hope when ballgroups run rampart again after the patch (obviously most people haven´t noticed yet how much stronger even mediocre groups will be after the patch). This skill is really needed.

4. A MagNecro is a ranged bomber with limited survivability when caught by a half decent Stamplayer. Sounds balanced to me.

5. StamNecro is not significantly stronger than Stamblade, or StamWarden. But yeah, both are not really the benchmark.

Have you tried fighting a good mag necro who has got their rotation dialed in? Their survivability is not limited. Stam necro is more balanced for the time being, it’s still early and people haven’t figured out optimal builds yet, but again Goliath is just stupidly strong.

JinMori

Vapirko wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

So here are some actual facts about necro after the adjustments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSLVKtgFM0Y

Mag cro are quite on the weak side when it comes to dps, stamcro are better but they are not that much better than any other class, they are relatively the same as other stamina.

I don;t know if it's because stalking blastbones are strong in pvp because of burst, but total dps is not that good, so honestly, gtfo with your "it seems like it's too strong" and bring some actual facts.

On the first weak everyone freaked out about numbers and i bet most didn;t even realize that pets critted 100 , not only that but they also critted for much more, the damage of blastbones this week is reduced from 110k to 70k, it does about the same damage as sub assault deep fissure, only that you see the 70k because of the atronach.

But p2w am i right?

Look, i criticized zos quite harshly, and intend to do so in the future, but there is not much to criticize here, they didn't make this class so strong so that everyone would buy it, it';s just not true.

Did you read the title? PvP. So gtfo?

Thraben wrote: »

People should calm down a bit.

1. Blastbones was/ is bugged.

2. Blastbones can be avoided by a lot of classes. This is mainly a l2p issue WHEN this skill has been fixed.

3. The Stam scythe is the Stam solo players´ only hope when ballgroups run rampart again after the patch (obviously most people haven´t noticed yet how much stronger even mediocre groups will be after the patch). This skill is really needed.

4. A MagNecro is a ranged bomber with limited survivability when caught by a half decent Stamplayer. Sounds balanced to me.

5. StamNecro is not significantly stronger than Stamblade, or StamWarden. But yeah, both are not really the benchmark.

Have you tried fighting a good mag necro who has got their rotation dialed in? Their survivability is not limited. Stam necro is more balanced for the time being, it’s still early and people haven’t figured out optimal builds yet, but again Goliath is just stupidly strong.

Did you read the whole thing? Iv'e already made an argument about the pvp thing, in any case, blastbones should not be stronger than sub assault, they are stronger only when atro is up.

Strider__Roshin

Kikke wrote: »

Why are people screaming that necros are OP? They are not live yet. stop whining

You're in the PTS section in case you weren't aware.

Joy_Division

While some of their passives and their ultimates are overtuned, I think the experience of having their pets always crit the first week is still shaping perceptions.

I think this class is annoying to fight in that its heals and overall mechanics are basically better versions of my own class (templar), but I want to see more of this class with bug free mechanics before we declare them pay2win, then nerf the crap out of them, and then basically never see them competitive in PvE. We've already been there once.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

Problem with testing on PTS is everyone is decked out in the very best of gear.
Wish their was a way to simulate a better mixed environment.

The problem is that people like me, who have been playing for 3 to 5 years, already have maxed out armor sets sitting in the bank waiting for our new stam or mag necro characters. And with all the xp scrolls I've got sitting around, it won't take more then 3 - 5 days to have a fully leveled out with max CP and gear Necro kitty ready to roll out for PvP or PvE adventures.

katorga

Joy_Division wrote: »

While some of their passives and their ultimates are overtuned, I think the experience of having their pets always crit the first week is still shaping perceptions.

I think this class is annoying to fight in that its heals and overall mechanics are basically better versions of my own class (templar), but I want to see more of this class with bug free mechanics before we declare them pay2win, then nerf the crap out of them, and then basically never see them competitive in PvE. We've already been there once.

Don't they have a passive to increase crit substantially when the target is under 25% health? So the first week experience is basically what to expect during execute range in pvp.

I think they will end up like warden with mag being underwhelming, and stam being on par with stam warden.

Revokus

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m not even going to write a lot about this. It’s just crazy. Went in to duel some friends on necros with my Stamplar who I switched to heavy armor so 29k resists + bloodspawn. Mag necros are like pet sorcs on steroids. You can do nothing but survive for a little while. Targeting becomes a feat of impossibility. Stamina necros can easily get tooltips of 24k on the Goliath ult. It’s like having a more powerful DBoS spammed at you. The buffs and debuffs from both are crazy. Feel free to discuss. I’m just adding my personal experience, but the warden is a cake walk compared to fighting these things. For a stamplar at least we’re looking at very tough times ahead. The other issue is that with so many corpses runnng around Cyrodil is sure to lag like never before. This isn’t a new class, this is unmatched strength locked behind a paywall that completely ignores the fact that PvP already can’t handle the animations current classes have.

When you confuse goliath with flesh atronach makes it hard to take this post seriously.

Thraben

Duelling says nothing about openworld PvP viability (which is the core of PvP balancing, because >90% of the players do it). MagNecros have the defensive toolkit of a Templar who permamists around a tree (minus eclipse). 90% of the players who will try MagNecro in OpenPvP will die like flies and hardly dare to leave the keep walls.

If a selected few can do great things with it, it is a reason to be happy for them and not a reason to cry for a nerf.