Revokus wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m not even going to write a lot about this. It’s just crazy. Went in to duel some friends on necros with my Stamplar who I switched to heavy armor so 29k resists + bloodspawn. Mag necros are like pet sorcs on steroids. You can do nothing but survive for a little while. Targeting becomes a feat of impossibility. Stamina necros can easily get tooltips of 24k on the Goliath ult. It’s like having a more powerful DBoS spammed at you. The buffs and debuffs from both are crazy. Feel free to discuss. I’m just adding my personal experience, but the warden is a cake walk compared to fighting these things. For a stamplar at least we’re looking at very tough times ahead. The other issue is that with so many corpses runnng around Cyrodil is sure to lag like never before. This isn’t a new class, this is unmatched strength locked behind a paywall that completely ignores the fact that PvP already can’t handle the animations current classes have.

When you confuse goliath with flesh atronach makes it hard to take this post seriously.

I dont think skill names, is the issue at hand here

@Joy_Division I wouldn’t even say pay to win if no adjustments are made. It feels like “pay to play as I used to” with regards to other classes.

This is all from a PvP perspective.

I only have enough time to really commit to one character. My Templar now has I think /130ish days played. Mag and Stam as an Orc. Since I’ve seen the Necro skills posted, prior to everything being released on PTS, the desire to play dropped a lot.

Then seeing the PTS notes I don’t even know why I’d bother with my stamplar in pvp. Not even a desire to switch back to mag like I have in the past. Seeing how the Necro class is designed then thinking of all the Templar pain points along the way has blown my mind.

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

@Joy_Division I wouldn’t even say pay to win if no adjustments are made. It feels like “pay to play as I used to” with regards to other classes.

This is all from a PvP perspective.

I only have enough time to really commit to one character. My Templar now has I think /130ish days played. Mag and Stam as an Orc. Since I’ve seen the Necro skills posted, prior to everything being released on PTS, the desire to play dropped a lot.

Then seeing the PTS notes I don’t even know why I’d bother with my stamplar in pvp. Not even a desire to switch back to mag like I have in the past. Seeing how the Necro class is designed then thinking of all the Templar pain points along the way has blown my mind.

I hear you and the devs are also going to hear it when we meet with them on Friday.

Joy_Division wrote: »

While some of their passives and their ultimates are overtuned, I think the experience of having their pets always crit the first week is still shaping perceptions.

I think this class is annoying to fight in that its heals and overall mechanics are basically better versions of my own class (templar), but I want to see more of this class with bug free mechanics before we declare them pay2win, then nerf the crap out of them, and then basically never see them competitive in PvE. We've already been there once.

^^ This. We don't want a Warden 2.0. When they hit live they were horrible, still kind of are.

Some things I want to point out:

1. Less people seem to be testing this week than last so that plays a factor.
2. Plus dueling is a little different from Cyrodiil PvP which we probably won't get a good and real taste of until it hits live unless a crap ton of people play test but honestly even when PTS is open to all not many test in Cyrodiil. Hard to get that live experience for PvP
3. We are all wearing gold gear and are max CP which I doubt will actually happen in live.
4. Is anyone trying out counters to Blastbones or just eating them? I know Draining Shot knocks them back and you can Streak through them to avoid any damage. Does Javelin knock them back? How about Flame Reach? Stone Fist? What happens when we cloak? I also know you can use dodge roll to avoid the damage as well.

It's easy to say that necro is OP because of Week One but I think we need to erase that experience because it was a bug. So far this week Necro seems fun to play still but I get a feeling other classes will still be stronger which is fine but that means it isn't OP. When I have fought Necros in Cyro they didn't really seem that bad, I usually won the fight but that's just me. Maybe I fought some players who didn't have a good grasp on necro yet idk.

You just have to block blastbones in pvp, and seeing how the blastbones themselves can be killed it may not be the best options for large scale groups to flutter the group composition with them. Although using 6 flesh atros would certainly be nasty...

Kikke wrote: »

Why are people screaming that necros are OP? They are not live yet. stop whining

What do you suggest? To wait the live version and then whining one year to tune it down?

In my experience i'm telling you that starting whining early is a good decision.

technohic wrote: »

Sounds like from the way people are talking, it will be a lot like Warden in really strong in PvP but not so much in PvE.

It’ll likely still be worth to bring for trials because of the flesh atro major vulnerability.

Vapirko wrote: »

I’m not even going to write a lot about this. It’s just crazy. Went in to duel some friends on necros with my Stamplar who I switched to heavy armor so 29k resists + bloodspawn. Mag necros are like pet sorcs on steroids. You can do nothing but survive for a little while. Targeting becomes a feat of impossibility. Stamina necros can easily get tooltips of 24k on the Goliath ult. It’s like having a more powerful DBoS spammed at you. The buffs and debuffs from both are crazy. Feel free to discuss. I’m just adding my personal experience, but the warden is a cake walk compared to fighting these things. For a stamplar at least we’re looking at very tough times ahead. The other issue is that with so many corpses runnng around Cyrodil is sure to lag like never before. This isn’t a new class, this is unmatched strength locked behind a paywall that completely ignores the fact that PvP already can’t handle the animations current classes have.

One person's view. Funny how people flock to get behind it, or oppose it.

I saw several Youtuber's going into detail on the class, and everyone has more or less agreed that it wont be the best DPS in its current form. They will make good healers, and very good tanks, but the DPS aspect seem to be lacking. Stamcro's are in a better place than Macro's, but neither out-DPS current meta.

Since the whole class is new, it will take a while to learn how to fight them and their strengths/weaknesses .

So lets all that a deep breath and meditate on it.

Ace_SiN wrote: »

New class is released, dies in a few duels, and then claims it needs to be nerfed. That's pretty much these forums in a nutshell. I know you're probably the GOAT of pvp and everything, but maybe it'll take more than a few duels to adapt to the playstyle of a class that's still being learned. I'm not going to argue that the class is "balanced", but I have yet to see any actual data outside of "feelycraft" reasoning. I have seen Blastbones being destroyed almost as soon as it spawns or blocked and made laughable. Also, Flesh Atro being so easily avoided that the cost is questionable outside of lulzergling stomping. The rez ult appears to be the only real gamechanger, but that's expected for a skill that effectively side-steps a mechanic.

This so much.

It seems like every post that claims Magicka Necromancer is overpowered is devoid of any substance beyond, "Blastbones hit me really hard." Feel free to prove me wrong and list all of the class abilities one by one, saying what you feel is overpowered about each of them (you can even skip the Rezz Ult, since that one's been done to death).

I think a lot of people don't realize just how thin the offensive toolkit really is, and once they figure out how to handle the Blastbones (which will even happen on accident in a lot of group fights), I feel pretty confident that Magicka Necromancer is going to be at the bottom of the totem pole of reliable offense. Probably has some pretty good potential as a healer, but I haven't tested that too much yet, and it doesn't seem like Battlegrounds are really happening anymore - at least not when I've been on and trying to get in one.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

It seems like every post that claims Magicka Necromancer is overpowered is devoid of any substance beyond, "Blastbones hit me really hard." Feel free to prove me wrong and list all of the class abilities one by one, saying what you feel is overpowered about each of them (you can even skip the Rezz Ult, since that one's been done to death).

I think a lot of people don't realize just how thin the offensive toolkit really is, and once they figure out how to handle the Blastbones (which will even happen on accident in a lot of group fights), I feel pretty confident that Magicka Necromancer is going to be at the bottom of the totem pole of reliable offense. Probably has some pretty good potential as a healer, but I haven't tested that too much yet, and it doesn't seem like Battlegrounds are really happening anymore - at least not when I've been on and trying to get in one.

Yeah, pts BGs seem dead so I haven’t been able to test the latest pts notes, but even last week they didn’t seem that good.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

It seems like every post that claims Magicka Necromancer is overpowered is devoid of any substance beyond, "Blastbones hit me really hard." Feel free to prove me wrong and list all of the class abilities one by one, saying what you feel is overpowered about each of them (you can even skip the Rezz Ult, since that one's been done to death).

I think a lot of people don't realize just how thin the offensive toolkit really is, and once they figure out how to handle the Blastbones (which will even happen on accident in a lot of group fights), I feel pretty confident that Magicka Necromancer is going to be at the bottom of the totem pole of reliable offense. Probably has some pretty good potential as a healer, but I haven't tested that too much yet, and it doesn't seem like Battlegrounds are really happening anymore - at least not when I've been on and trying to get in one.

Have you tried fighting someone who knows what they’re doing? Perhaps you just don’t understand how to play one yet. I was in wayrest testing duels again yesterday. Of the maybe 8-10 people I fought I was able to beat every one of them. The mag necro however was almost untouchable and I watched them destroy everyone else there. A pet sorc was the only one able to put up a bit of a fight. It’s the corpses that make it really hard, I would compare it to a 1v3 in feeling, and it even gets hard to distinguish which one is the player on occasion because there’s so many animations happening. The damage of each skill individually isn’t terrible, but the way it works is that it becomes a constant barrage of damage from everywhere and combined with the targeting issues you basically just end up constantly on the defense. The stam cro as I said was manageable until it transformed into the Goliath. But whatever, I’m just adding my personal experience. Imo both specs are probably going to dominate Cyrodiils if they go live without some tuning. You’re going to see a lot of tanky stam builds that do nothing until they can transform into Goliaths, and you’re going to see Mag necros swarming keeps with summons, using the res ult and camping flags with the flesh atro. And you can see from the words that they’ve got access to very strong buffs and debuffs.

Vapirko wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

It seems like every post that claims Magicka Necromancer is overpowered is devoid of any substance beyond, "Blastbones hit me really hard." Feel free to prove me wrong and list all of the class abilities one by one, saying what you feel is overpowered about each of them (you can even skip the Rezz Ult, since that one's been done to death).

I think a lot of people don't realize just how thin the offensive toolkit really is, and once they figure out how to handle the Blastbones (which will even happen on accident in a lot of group fights), I feel pretty confident that Magicka Necromancer is going to be at the bottom of the totem pole of reliable offense. Probably has some pretty good potential as a healer, but I haven't tested that too much yet, and it doesn't seem like Battlegrounds are really happening anymore - at least not when I've been on and trying to get in one.

Have you tried fighting someone who knows what they’re doing? Perhaps you just don’t understand how to play one yet. I was in wayrest testing duels again yesterday. Of the maybe 8-10 people I fought I was able to beat every one of them. The mag necro however was almost untouchable and I watched them destroy everyone else there. A pet sorc was the only one able to put up a bit of a fight. It’s the corpses that make it really hard, I would compare it to a 1v3 in feeling, and it even gets hard to distinguish which one is the player on occasion because there’s so many animations happening. The damage of each skill individually isn’t terrible, but the way it works is that it becomes a constant barrage of damage from everywhere and combined with the targeting issues you basically just end up constantly on the defense. The stam cro as I said was manageable until it transformed into the Goliath. But whatever, I’m just adding my personal experience. Imo both specs are probably going to dominate Cyrodiils if they go live without some tuning. You’re going to see a lot of tanky stam builds that do nothing until they can transform into Goliaths, and you’re going to see Mag necros swarming keeps with summons, using the res ult and camping flags with the flesh atro. And you can see from the words that they’ve got access to very strong buffs and debuffs.

So...you beat everyone but the Magicka Necromancer, and aren't OP. But the Magicka Necromancer beat those same people + you, and is therefore, "So OP In PvP It's Not Funny?"

I'll freely admit that I'm not great on Necromancer right now, as most people aren't, and that I'd surely do better if I got more practice in. But that'll only go so far with the Magicka Necromancer offensive toolkit being what it is, and you don't exactly sound 100% up-to-speed on the class yourself, given what little specifics you've provided.

The only Magicka Necromancer ability that will affect targeting is the Blastbones - the Skeletal Arcanist and the Spirit Mender aren't targetable. And in what way do the corpses make it really hard? Did you block any of the Blastbones?

What makes you think that duels are representative of overall PvP performance? Were there any times that you used line of sight + ground-based snares in a defensive way to avoid the Blastbones? Were there ever any cases of you being above or below the Necromancer? Did anyone else tag the Blastbones with AOE stuns, fears, or roots?

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

While some of their passives and their ultimates are overtuned, I think the experience of having their pets always crit the first week is still shaping perceptions.

I think this class is annoying to fight in that its heals and overall mechanics are basically better versions of my own class (templar), but I want to see more of this class with bug free mechanics before we declare them pay2win, then nerf the crap out of them, and then basically never see them competitive in PvE. We've already been there once.

^^ This. We don't want a Warden 2.0. When they hit live they were horrible, still kind of are.

Some things I want to point out:

1. Less people seem to be testing this week than last so that plays a factor.
2. Plus dueling is a little different from Cyrodiil PvP which we probably won't get a good and real taste of until it hits live unless a crap ton of people play test but honestly even when PTS is open to all not many test in Cyrodiil. Hard to get that live experience for PvP
3. We are all wearing gold gear and are max CP which I doubt will actually happen in live.
4. Is anyone trying out counters to Blastbones or just eating them? I know Draining Shot knocks them back and you can Streak through them to avoid any damage. Does Javelin knock them back? How about Flame Reach? Stone Fist? What happens when we cloak? I also know you can use dodge roll to avoid the damage as well.

It's easy to say that necro is OP because of Week One but I think we need to erase that experience because it was a bug. So far this week Necro seems fun to play still but I get a feeling other classes will still be stronger which is fine but that means it isn't OP. When I have fought Necros in Cyro they didn't really seem that bad, I usually won the fight but that's just me. Maybe I fought some players who didn't have a good grasp on necro yet idk.

Draining Shot does Knock it back, it only gives a moment to breath though. They usually don't die to Draining Shot and run right back to you when they get out of the CC. You can burn them with a weave or two while they are knocked back, but that takes pressure completely off the necro that is still spamming into you.

I found Necro damage somewhat easy to mitigate. But the damage is just as easily sustained. In the end targetting issues caused me to lose several fights against them. While steady pressure let me win a bunch of fights while playing on one.

So draining shot works and so does Streak for Sorcs (Streak through the Blastbones, you take no damage) and so does blocking and dodge rolling. It seems to avoid Daedric Mines, Petrify and Volcanic Rune and CC's like that so far but that was only one test and it was when pets were bugged so who knows.

Has anyone tested Javelin? Stone Fist? Flame Reach? Cloak? How about skills that slow movement? I would test these for myself but I don't have the time.