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Stamina Dragonknight finally have a "spammable" skill and a whip (sort of)
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I'm also not a fan of slotting a crutch in the form of a useless magicka ability - feels like we're just using a loophole again, and no telling when it'll be closed (yes, I did express concerns back then that Claw may get first tick removed at any moment, but everyone brushed it off, saying that it's been like that since forever and ZOS won't bother doing so), and whole scheme with slotting (more so double barring) unused magicka skill and spamming Noxious (also a rule breaker I reckon, and in ZOS' vision not something to be used as a spammable) reeks of bad class design.
So no, stamDK didn't get any intentional buff this update, we're just picking up crumbs from magDK's table (not that magDK is having a gorgeous feast there to begin with). I can get behind giving this buff to Searing Strike since morphs are useful and used by both specs.
But then if we put this buff to Searing Strike, it'd make the skill become a must have on every DK and put it in an OP status. In a game where "your choice" is kind of a thing, having such a massively OP skill like this is just ill-advice.
And let's be real, it's not like stamDK have no available slot for an unused skill in the first place.
Well, it's a maybe, but then again, most classes have such "class-defining" OP skill to put on the bars, and I can't think of running DK without Claw, it's too powerful a DoT to leave out even without the upcoming buff. I simply don't know what else to slap it on, because the choice is Noxious, FoO and Claw, stamDK simply doesn't have anything else of their own to put on the bars, and you can say the same - "if you buff this, it'll be OP and must have" - of any of those three. Something gets to be OP with 375 WD buff, and it's only down to the choice whether it's useful sort of OP or just a dead skill to slot (or worse double bar).
I'm also not sure about bar space. I currently have one flex spot on the back bar; double barring Whip will leave no space for Vigor. And @hedna123b14_ESO is right, Noxious as a spammable is a crutch and if spamming Rending and Claw is an unintended use in ZOS' eyes, then we can expect Noxious nerf any moment now - so we'll be shy yet another slot we'll have to use for another spammable like Flurry.
Last week the meta was using Whirling Blades as a spammable. It overtakes Noxious in damage almost immidiately and still allows you to maintain 100% uptime on Seething Fury x 3
I wonder if you have to double bar the Whip while at it, or it's comfortable to keep Seething Fury from just one bar? Loss of three slots (two for Whip and one for Whirling Blades) sounds brutal in my head.
You actually cant doblebar whip because you dont have room. Here is a sample rotation:
https://youtu.be/1fLIkbBYSmE 0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vesselwiththepestle wrote: »I don't like having to slot an otherwise useless ability. Please compare Molten Whip for example to Bound Armaments or Bird of Prey. I think those skills work better than Molten Whip. Molten Whip is a spammable, which we wouldn't use. Another example would be the Templar passive Piercing Spears. Stamplars are slotting Spear Shards just for this passive, but at least they've got the choice which Aedric Spear skill to slot and Spear Shards has at least some kind of utility (and does some dps even on a Stamplar in trash fights).
So in my opinion there are three choices:
1. The buff to Molten Whip gets transfered to an utility skill or in the class passives. I think the buff would fit to Flames of Oblivion or it could replace the passive "Warmth".
2. Molten Whip is changed to dealing Flame Damage or Poison Damage depending on whatever is higher. (Similar to Burning Light passive from Templar.) Sadly the Magicka Cost would still stay a problem.
3. Best case would be, to combine both: Make Molten Whip a Poisoned Whip with Stamina cost and Poison DPS and add the Seething Fury to an actual passive skill like Warmth, so both Stam and Mag DK can make use of it and get to keep a spammable.
What are your uptimes on Seething Fury? My last parse was Seething Fury 87%, Seething Fury (x2) 64%, and Seething Fury (x3) 53%. This was done with Noxious Breath as spammable! I am just wondering how much I need to practice.
I think you're missing the point. The change to Molten Whip is not intended for stamDK, it was changed to give magDK another option since Flame Lash was too overused in both pve and pvp. We stamDK are merely taking advantage of it since the buff also give weapon damage.
If ZOS really wanted, they can just remove the whole weapon damage bonus from this, and we'll just lose another new mechanic. StamDK haven't got any buff since, well, forever, and I'd advice to just be happy with what we have. We've been praying for a stam whip since 1.6 and look how far we've got. At least we have noxious breath as a spammable now.
Well m8 stamDK lost wings because magDK was causing problems to ranged builds.
Putitng a WD bonus on a magika spammable is a bad idea.
They did something similar to igneous weapons messing up a skill stamina was using.
Dont defend a bad idea. This is not a stamina buff. StamDK lost wings and got 200% dmg on noxious breath that misses the target 200%
Seething Fury must be moved to an ability that has both stamina and magika morphs.
Or igneous weapons should be reworked.Edited by GeorgeBlack on April 22, 2019 3:49PM5 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I'm also not a fan of slotting a crutch in the form of a useless magicka ability - feels like we're just using a loophole again, and no telling when it'll be closed (yes, I did express concerns back then that Claw may get first tick removed at any moment, but everyone brushed it off, saying that it's been like that since forever and ZOS won't bother doing so), and whole scheme with slotting (more so double barring) unused magicka skill and spamming Noxious (also a rule breaker I reckon, and in ZOS' vision not something to be used as a spammable) reeks of bad class design.
So no, stamDK didn't get any intentional buff this update, we're just picking up crumbs from magDK's table (not that magDK is having a gorgeous feast there to begin with). I can get behind giving this buff to Searing Strike since morphs are useful and used by both specs.
But then if we put this buff to Searing Strike, it'd make the skill become a must have on every DK and put it in an OP status. In a game where "your choice" is kind of a thing, having such a massively OP skill like this is just ill-advice.
And let's be real, it's not like stamDK have no available slot for an unused skill in the first place.
Well, it's a maybe, but then again, most classes have such "class-defining" OP skill to put on the bars, and I can't think of running DK without Claw, it's too powerful a DoT to leave out even without the upcoming buff. I simply don't know what else to slap it on, because the choice is Noxious, FoO and Claw, stamDK simply doesn't have anything else of their own to put on the bars, and you can say the same - "if you buff this, it'll be OP and must have" - of any of those three. Something gets to be OP with 375 WD buff, and it's only down to the choice whether it's useful sort of OP or just a dead skill to slot (or worse double bar).
I'm also not sure about bar space. I currently have one flex spot on the back bar; double barring Whip will leave no space for Vigor. And @hedna123b14_ESO is right, Noxious as a spammable is a crutch and if spamming Rending and Claw is an unintended use in ZOS' eyes, then we can expect Noxious nerf any moment now - so we'll be shy yet another slot we'll have to use for another spammable like Flurry.
Last week the meta was using Whirling Blades as a spammable. It overtakes Noxious in damage almost immidiately and still allows you to maintain 100% uptime on Seething Fury x 3
I wonder if you have to double bar the Whip while at it, or it's comfortable to keep Seething Fury from just one bar? Loss of three slots (two for Whip and one for Whirling Blades) sounds brutal in my head.
You actually cant doblebar whip because you dont have room. Here is a sample rotation:https://youtu.be/1fLIkbBYSmE
you know you don't need to double bar whip right? You just need to slot it on front bar. The passive works similar to AY, so if your rotation is on point, you can maintain it at 3 stack 95% of the time for both bar with just 1 slot equipped.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I'm also not a fan of slotting a crutch in the form of a useless magicka ability - feels like we're just using a loophole again, and no telling when it'll be closed (yes, I did express concerns back then that Claw may get first tick removed at any moment, but everyone brushed it off, saying that it's been like that since forever and ZOS won't bother doing so), and whole scheme with slotting (more so double barring) unused magicka skill and spamming Noxious (also a rule breaker I reckon, and in ZOS' vision not something to be used as a spammable) reeks of bad class design.
So no, stamDK didn't get any intentional buff this update, we're just picking up crumbs from magDK's table (not that magDK is having a gorgeous feast there to begin with). I can get behind giving this buff to Searing Strike since morphs are useful and used by both specs.
But then if we put this buff to Searing Strike, it'd make the skill become a must have on every DK and put it in an OP status. In a game where "your choice" is kind of a thing, having such a massively OP skill like this is just ill-advice.
And let's be real, it's not like stamDK have no available slot for an unused skill in the first place.
Well, it's a maybe, but then again, most classes have such "class-defining" OP skill to put on the bars, and I can't think of running DK without Claw, it's too powerful a DoT to leave out even without the upcoming buff. I simply don't know what else to slap it on, because the choice is Noxious, FoO and Claw, stamDK simply doesn't have anything else of their own to put on the bars, and you can say the same - "if you buff this, it'll be OP and must have" - of any of those three. Something gets to be OP with 375 WD buff, and it's only down to the choice whether it's useful sort of OP or just a dead skill to slot (or worse double bar).
I'm also not sure about bar space. I currently have one flex spot on the back bar; double barring Whip will leave no space for Vigor. And @hedna123b14_ESO is right, Noxious as a spammable is a crutch and if spamming Rending and Claw is an unintended use in ZOS' eyes, then we can expect Noxious nerf any moment now - so we'll be shy yet another slot we'll have to use for another spammable like Flurry.
Last week the meta was using Whirling Blades as a spammable. It overtakes Noxious in damage almost immidiately and still allows you to maintain 100% uptime on Seething Fury x 3
I wonder if you have to double bar the Whip while at it, or it's comfortable to keep Seething Fury from just one bar? Loss of three slots (two for Whip and one for Whirling Blades) sounds brutal in my head.
You actually cant doblebar whip because you dont have room. Here is a sample rotation:https://youtu.be/1fLIkbBYSmE
you know you don't need to double bar whip right? You just need to slot it on front bar. The passive works similar to AY, so if your rotation is on point, you can maintain it at 3 stack 95% of the time for both bar with just 1 slot equipped.
Please read the quote you quoted...that's exactly what I said...0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »I'm also not a fan of slotting a crutch in the form of a useless magicka ability - feels like we're just using a loophole again, and no telling when it'll be closed (yes, I did express concerns back then that Claw may get first tick removed at any moment, but everyone brushed it off, saying that it's been like that since forever and ZOS won't bother doing so), and whole scheme with slotting (more so double barring) unused magicka skill and spamming Noxious (also a rule breaker I reckon, and in ZOS' vision not something to be used as a spammable) reeks of bad class design.
So no, stamDK didn't get any intentional buff this update, we're just picking up crumbs from magDK's table (not that magDK is having a gorgeous feast there to begin with). I can get behind giving this buff to Searing Strike since morphs are useful and used by both specs.
But then if we put this buff to Searing Strike, it'd make the skill become a must have on every DK and put it in an OP status. In a game where "your choice" is kind of a thing, having such a massively OP skill like this is just ill-advice.
And let's be real, it's not like stamDK have no available slot for an unused skill in the first place.
Well, it's a maybe, but then again, most classes have such "class-defining" OP skill to put on the bars, and I can't think of running DK without Claw, it's too powerful a DoT to leave out even without the upcoming buff. I simply don't know what else to slap it on, because the choice is Noxious, FoO and Claw, stamDK simply doesn't have anything else of their own to put on the bars, and you can say the same - "if you buff this, it'll be OP and must have" - of any of those three. Something gets to be OP with 375 WD buff, and it's only down to the choice whether it's useful sort of OP or just a dead skill to slot (or worse double bar).
I'm also not sure about bar space. I currently have one flex spot on the back bar; double barring Whip will leave no space for Vigor. And @hedna123b14_ESO is right, Noxious as a spammable is a crutch and if spamming Rending and Claw is an unintended use in ZOS' eyes, then we can expect Noxious nerf any moment now - so we'll be shy yet another slot we'll have to use for another spammable like Flurry.
Last week the meta was using Whirling Blades as a spammable. It overtakes Noxious in damage almost immidiately and still allows you to maintain 100% uptime on Seething Fury x 3
I wonder if you have to double bar the Whip while at it, or it's comfortable to keep Seething Fury from just one bar? Loss of three slots (two for Whip and one for Whirling Blades) sounds brutal in my head.
You actually cant doblebar whip because you dont have room. Here is a sample rotation:https://youtu.be/1fLIkbBYSmE
you know you don't need to double bar whip right? You just need to slot it on front bar. The passive works similar to AY, so if your rotation is on point, you can maintain it at 3 stack 95% of the time for both bar with just 1 slot equipped.
Please read the quote you quoted...that's exactly what I said...
Oh sorry XD0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »vesselwiththepestle wrote: »I don't like having to slot an otherwise useless ability. Please compare Molten Whip for example to Bound Armaments or Bird of Prey. I think those skills work better than Molten Whip. Molten Whip is a spammable, which we wouldn't use. Another example would be the Templar passive Piercing Spears. Stamplars are slotting Spear Shards just for this passive, but at least they've got the choice which Aedric Spear skill to slot and Spear Shards has at least some kind of utility (and does some dps even on a Stamplar in trash fights).
So in my opinion there are three choices:
1. The buff to Molten Whip gets transfered to an utility skill or in the class passives. I think the buff would fit to Flames of Oblivion or it could replace the passive "Warmth".
2. Molten Whip is changed to dealing Flame Damage or Poison Damage depending on whatever is higher. (Similar to Burning Light passive from Templar.) Sadly the Magicka Cost would still stay a problem.
3. Best case would be, to combine both: Make Molten Whip a Poisoned Whip with Stamina cost and Poison DPS and add the Seething Fury to an actual passive skill like Warmth, so both Stam and Mag DK can make use of it and get to keep a spammable.
What are your uptimes on Seething Fury? My last parse was Seething Fury 87%, Seething Fury (x2) 64%, and Seething Fury (x3) 53%. This was done with Noxious Breath as spammable! I am just wondering how much I need to practice.
I think you're missing the point. The change to Molten Whip is not intended for stamDK, it was changed to give magDK another option since Flame Lash was too overused in both pve and pvp. We stamDK are merely taking advantage of it since the buff also give weapon damage.
If ZOS really wanted, they can just remove the whole weapon damage bonus from this, and we'll just lose another new mechanic. StamDK haven't got any buff since, well, forever, and I'd advice to just be happy with what we have. We've been praying for a stam whip since 1.6 and look how far we've got. At least we have noxious breath as a spammable now.
Well m8 stamDK lost wings because magDK was causing problems to ranged builds.
Putitng a WD bonus on a magika spammable is a bad idea.
They did something similar to igneous weapons messing up a skill stamina was using.
Dont defend a bad idea. This is not a stamina buff. StamDK lost wings and got 200% dmg on noxious breath that misses the target 200%
Seething Fury must be moved to an ability that has both stamina and magika morphs.
Or igneous weapons should be reworked.
I think you're missing the point of these changes. These changes aid the PvE side of stamDK, not PvP. The wings change is another thing entirely, please don't put it into this conversation.
And let's be real, ppl have been fine with slotting evil hunter for extra WD for a long time now. We now simply change it to whip.
Also if you can't land Noxious Breath in PvP, you need more practice on it. Maybe stop jumping around while using it since it will apparently FLICK up the cone hitbox.Edited by Pr0Skygon on April 22, 2019 4:04PM1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 22, 2019 4:14PM6 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »vesselwiththepestle wrote: »I don't like having to slot an otherwise useless ability. Please compare Molten Whip for example to Bound Armaments or Bird of Prey. I think those skills work better than Molten Whip. Molten Whip is a spammable, which we wouldn't use. Another example would be the Templar passive Piercing Spears. Stamplars are slotting Spear Shards just for this passive, but at least they've got the choice which Aedric Spear skill to slot and Spear Shards has at least some kind of utility (and does some dps even on a Stamplar in trash fights).
So in my opinion there are three choices:
1. The buff to Molten Whip gets transfered to an utility skill or in the class passives. I think the buff would fit to Flames of Oblivion or it could replace the passive "Warmth".
2. Molten Whip is changed to dealing Flame Damage or Poison Damage depending on whatever is higher. (Similar to Burning Light passive from Templar.) Sadly the Magicka Cost would still stay a problem.
3. Best case would be, to combine both: Make Molten Whip a Poisoned Whip with Stamina cost and Poison DPS and add the Seething Fury to an actual passive skill like Warmth, so both Stam and Mag DK can make use of it and get to keep a spammable.
What are your uptimes on Seething Fury? My last parse was Seething Fury 87%, Seething Fury (x2) 64%, and Seething Fury (x3) 53%. This was done with Noxious Breath as spammable! I am just wondering how much I need to practice.
I think you're missing the point. The change to Molten Whip is not intended for stamDK, it was changed to give magDK another option since Flame Lash was too overused in both pve and pvp. We stamDK are merely taking advantage of it since the buff also give weapon damage.
If ZOS really wanted, they can just remove the whole weapon damage bonus from this, and we'll just lose another new mechanic. StamDK haven't got any buff since, well, forever, and I'd advice to just be happy with what we have. We've been praying for a stam whip since 1.6 and look how far we've got. At least we have noxious breath as a spammable now.
Well m8 stamDK lost wings because magDK was causing problems to ranged builds.
Putitng a WD bonus on a magika spammable is a bad idea.
They did something similar to igneous weapons messing up a skill stamina was using.
Dont defend a bad idea. This is not a stamina buff. StamDK lost wings and got 200% dmg on noxious breath that misses the target 200%
Seething Fury must be moved to an ability that has both stamina and magika morphs.
Or igneous weapons should be reworked.
It's almost like we have a skill to buff weapons that would be perfect for this kind of effect...Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers.
Instead of using claws with had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use obnoxious breath as a spammable.
What I witness is class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this.
How can these changes be worse if the rotation dynamic stay pretty much the same? Instead of scratching the boss till it's dead, we now use vaping instead. Not much of a different there, we still basically spam a DOT
It bothers me to see people not only upsetting with nerfs, but now also with buffs? Really? You become stronger with minimum drawback and you still complain? I'm kinda lost here. You have no idea how happy I am to finally breakthrough 50k dps on 6M on a stamDK.1 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »vesselwiththepestle wrote: »I don't like having to slot an otherwise useless ability. Please compare Molten Whip for example to Bound Armaments or Bird of Prey. I think those skills work better than Molten Whip. Molten Whip is a spammable, which we wouldn't use. Another example would be the Templar passive Piercing Spears. Stamplars are slotting Spear Shards just for this passive, but at least they've got the choice which Aedric Spear skill to slot and Spear Shards has at least some kind of utility (and does some dps even on a Stamplar in trash fights).
So in my opinion there are three choices:
1. The buff to Molten Whip gets transfered to an utility skill or in the class passives. I think the buff would fit to Flames of Oblivion or it could replace the passive "Warmth".
2. Molten Whip is changed to dealing Flame Damage or Poison Damage depending on whatever is higher. (Similar to Burning Light passive from Templar.) Sadly the Magicka Cost would still stay a problem.
3. Best case would be, to combine both: Make Molten Whip a Poisoned Whip with Stamina cost and Poison DPS and add the Seething Fury to an actual passive skill like Warmth, so both Stam and Mag DK can make use of it and get to keep a spammable.
What are your uptimes on Seething Fury? My last parse was Seething Fury 87%, Seething Fury (x2) 64%, and Seething Fury (x3) 53%. This was done with Noxious Breath as spammable! I am just wondering how much I need to practice.
I think you're missing the point. The change to Molten Whip is not intended for stamDK, it was changed to give magDK another option since Flame Lash was too overused in both pve and pvp. We stamDK are merely taking advantage of it since the buff also give weapon damage.
If ZOS really wanted, they can just remove the whole weapon damage bonus from this, and we'll just lose another new mechanic. StamDK haven't got any buff since, well, forever, and I'd advice to just be happy with what we have. We've been praying for a stam whip since 1.6 and look how far we've got. At least we have noxious breath as a spammable now.
Well m8 stamDK lost wings because magDK was causing problems to ranged builds.
Putitng a WD bonus on a magika spammable is a bad idea.
They did something similar to igneous weapons messing up a skill stamina was using.
Dont defend a bad idea. This is not a stamina buff. StamDK lost wings and got 200% dmg on noxious breath that misses the target 200%
Seething Fury must be moved to an ability that has both stamina and magika morphs.
Or igneous weapons should be reworked.
It's almost like we have a skill to buff weapons that would be perfect for this kind of effect...
Even though I think slotting whip on stamDK is fine, I do wish for Seething Fury to be moved to Igneous Weapon instead.
But hey, it's not my decision to make it happens.0 -
Titan_01✭✭While i love the bonus from whip (it add up fast), i would really like to see it moved somewhere else. It just doesn't feel right to me having that skill on the bar for just that purpose. I dont mind with warden or sorc but this Whips just really bugs me.
While it doesn't look like there were any changes this week i have to think breath and blades will be nerfed at some point. If not this will be the most counter intuitive class to play, and frankly not much fun anymore imo.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭While i love the bonus from whip (it add up fast), i would really like to see it moved somewhere else. It just doesn't feel right to me having that skill on the bar for just that purpose. I dont mind with warden or sorc but this Whips just really bugs me.
While it doesn't look like there were any changes this week i have to think breath and blades will be nerfed at some point. If not this will be the most counter intuitive class to play, and frankly not much fun anymore imo.
Usually the big combat changes are done every other week on the PTS. I would expect more changes next week.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Edit: They could have put this bonus weapon damage mechanic , on an ability that would actually fit into stamDk's kit, like molten armaments, along with major brutality. That I would actually be happy about because it would be better class design, and Its better not to rely on a magDk spammable for my rotation, which may or may not change based on how magDks are doing in the future.
I realize it sounds like gibberish to complain about getting good parses, but in the long run , I believe this is not a good path to take for the class.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 22, 2019 4:42PM0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Can you tell me more about your issues with bar spaces? I personally have no issue with it, but I'd love to help it possible.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Planning for future is pointless since game changes so often0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Planning for future is pointless since game changes so often
I'm not planning for future. I'm merely watching, as I have no power in actual decision making.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Planning for future is pointless since game changes so often
I'm not planning for future. I'm merely watching, as I have no power in actual decision making.
Please don't "merely watching". Go to the pts and test it out yourself. You might like it more than you'd think0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Planning for future is pointless since game changes so often
I'm not planning for future. I'm merely watching, as I have no power in actual decision making.
Please don't "merely watching". Go to the pts and test it out yourself. You might like it more than you'd think
I don't think we understand each other clearly.
StamDks now slot molten whip.
I don't think doing some tests can change what sounds wrong about the sentence above.
Zenimax didn't put any thought or time into these changes, then why should I spend time on testing them?2 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Planning for future is pointless since game changes so often
I'm not planning for future. I'm merely watching, as I have no power in actual decision making.
Please don't "merely watching". Go to the pts and test it out yourself. You might like it more than you'd think
I don't think we understand each other clearly.
StamDks now slot molten whip.
I don't think doing some tests can change what sounds wrong about the sentence above.
Zenimax didn't put any thought or time into these changes, then why should I spend time on testing them?
If you don't wanna do any testing, then I'd suggest not commenting on this forum. This is a test server. If you wanna post your game theories, go to youtube. If you wanna QQ about how ZOS ruined DK since 1.6, go to Cyrodill.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Instead of a boring full on dot rotation, you now have a dead weight skill on bar, meant for magicka DK, slotted just for the broken amounts of passive weapon damage it offers. (It is a lot higher than slotting fighters guild abilities for comparission.)
Instead of using claws which had a satisfying and fluid animation as a spammable, you know use the obnoxious breath as a spammable. I get that claws spammable was wrong according to ZOS's new ''vision'', however it was a damn satisfying skill to use, and It visually made sense as a spammable too.
What I witness is a class design go from bad to worse. And whats even more comical is that people actually celebrate over this. If all you ever care about is parse numbers, then good for you , otherwise this is terrfying news and will only lead to trouble in future because they won't be buffing the class due to this new molten whip.
Do you dislike the whirling blades animation?
It has nothing to do with me liking&disliking whirling blades animation but everything to do with the class changed in a way that is unpleasant, to put it lightly. (In fact I actually like whirling blades. Its a cool looking skill. Much better than steel tornado.)
I already have bar space issues, don't have access to my own passives and now I need to slot molten whip, and obviously in future the class will be balanced in a way that takes molten whip into account, which means less power to skills or passives that may actually deserve it.
So all in all, I don't see much to be happy about. To be honest I'm not thinking of the short term gains, I am thinking of what this means to the class in the future, and I am only getting more and more anxious about it.
Planning for future is pointless since game changes so often
I'm not planning for future. I'm merely watching, as I have no power in actual decision making.
Please don't "merely watching". Go to the pts and test it out yourself. You might like it more than you'd think
I don't think we understand each other clearly.
StamDks now slot molten whip.
I don't think doing some tests can change what sounds wrong about the sentence above.
Zenimax didn't put any thought or time into these changes, then why should I spend time on testing them?
If you don't wanna do any testing, then I'd suggest not commenting on this forum. This is a test server. If you wanna post your game theories, go to youtube. If you wanna QQ about how ZOS ruined DK since 1.6, go to Cyrodill.
oh I'm so sorry that I can comment on what is bloody obvious without the need to test and verify it. My bad
2 -
Titan_01✭✭
Please don't "merely watching". Go to the pts and test it out yourself. You might like it more than you'd think
I've tested the changes on the PTS. They are quite effective compared to live but I don't think they were the best way of going about things. Using AoEs for single target because it is the best option is just really counter intuitive, and something that i think will confuse a ton of players. Visually i just don't like it either.
I personally would have liked it better if the whip buff was moved to something else that both Mag and stam can make equal use of, but i can live with it even if i don't like it.
I would have also liked to seen Claw reworked so that it had an additional mechanic. maybe not the same thing as whip but a high initial attack (and reversing the dot scaling so it decreases each tick) and then maybe adding something like the deadly strike bonus over the duration so that it buffs our other skills as well.
2 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
Please don't "merely watching". Go to the pts and test it out yourself. You might like it more than you'd think
I've tested the changes on the PTS. They are quite effective compared to live but I don't think they were the best way of going about things. Using AoEs for single target because it is the best option is just really counter intuitive, and something that i think will confuse a ton of players. Visually i just don't like it either.
I personally would have liked it better if the whip buff was moved to something else that both Mag and stam can make equal use of, but i can live with it even if i don't like it.
I would have also liked to seen Claw reworked so that it had an additional mechanic. maybe not the same thing as whip but a high initial attack (and reversing the dot scaling so it decreases each tick) and then maybe adding something like the deadly strike bonus over the duration so that it buffs our other skills as well.
If I've gotta be honest with you, vaping my enemies sounds like a lot of fun, but that doesn't mean I have to necessary 100% on board with it. I've been suggesting a rework on Stone Fist to become a stam spammable for years, or a more simple solution, give us a stam whip. I wanna do backflip whipping goddamit!
I'm very 50/50 on the idea of moving the Seething Fury buff to other skill however (such as Igneous Weapon). On 1 hand, that would make a lot of sense, but then it will make magDK get way out of control and it would not make any different for stamDK, since we'll slot a magicka skill anyway.0 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭
Here are my test result. The first time I tried without spin to win, and the 2nd is with spin to win as a spammable. For a stamDK, a whopping 2600 stam cost spammable is quite a problem, I had trouble with execution at the end with spin to win. While on other hand, sustain is a breeze with noxious vaping.
In conclusion, I think I prefer vaping more than spin to win, due to how much less it costs, the 10m range vs 6m range difference and vape spamming results in much easier uptime for Seething Fury, which will be hard to maintain in real dungeon and trial where you need to run around a lot.
But hey, spin to win is not a bad option either. This test I ran without vampirism, so that might have been a factor into it.0 -
Titan_01✭✭I'm very 50/50 on the idea of moving the Seething Fury buff to other skill however (such as Igneous Weapon). On 1 hand, that would make a lot of sense, but then it will make magDK get way out of control and it would not make any different for stamDK, since we'll slot a magicka skill anyway.
Molten Armaments is what needs to change IMO. The heavy attack buff is now pointless. I could see igneous potentially being useful if someone is using the new pots. Possibly MagDks in PVP or maybe even tanks in certain situations.
Using something from that line to help with sustain would be nice.3 -
Goren✭✭✭Use an active skill only for it's passive and an aoe dot skill as a spamable? I don't think this was their intention..2 -
Machete✭✭✭I would be very much for trying g to see if DK could get molten whip to scale off the highest stat. Turns to poison if it's stam, turns to flame if it's mag.
I'd like for wings to be longer since the nerf. Maybe 15-20 seconds. But eh, I'm happy with the changes.
Lemon-Party
Monarch Wintervine, Stamina DK, AD
Eiress Wintervine, Stamina Warden, AD
Aelireed Auntumnvine, Stamina Necromancer, AD
Sierena Hlaalu, Stamina Templar, AD
Blou Springwillow, Stamina Sorc, AD
Taliana Silverthorn, Stamina NB, AD
Monarch Wíntervine, Stamina DK, EP
Lily Hlaalu, Stamina NB, EP
Tankito Fondlini, DK Tank, EP
Evaii Spellborn, Magicka DK, AD
Thellion Evaire, Magicka Warden, AD
Weylenn Aenwee, Magicka Templar, AD
Valianna Syn, Magicka Sorc, AD
Aranyus Highren, Magicka NB, AD2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »
That , we will see in week 3. However the problem lies within the world in ruin passive. Neither claws nor noxious breath never really overperformed in any aspect. What made them spammable contenders was the world in ruin change, that made them almost free to spam.
Without taking that passive into consideration nerfing noxious would be a bad move.0