jainiadral wrote: »

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.

Yup, same wow "its a MMO" kiddies yelling...well...ITS A MMO, "harder overland content"....because of new tier of gear, raids....cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!", vertical progression and new tier of gear cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!!"....and ArenaNet devs were stupid enough to listen....now theyre out of a job....well 50% of them.

Blizzard also had mass layoffs...cuz "its a MMO!!!!!!!!"

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

I don't get the stubbornness of MMO developers. They keep focusing on PvE, meanwhile PvPers always pull far higher numbers on twitch and youtube. PvE has its place, but it should not be the main focus.

Their funeral though. Eventually a better MMO will come along and hopefully will give people what they want. Until then, ESO is the best we got.

There are far, far more PvE players than PvPers, and there are far, far more casual PvE players than hardcore raiders. I don't even remember a PvP MMO with more than 100k players...

I find it hilarious that players who stream themselves playing a game are considered "content creators". Surely there must be a more accurate term such as "streamers", leaving the development team who actually create the content that the players are streaming themselves playing to be correctly identified as the "content creators".

vamp_emily wrote: »

I guess what I am getting at is, if a content creator is looking for subs/viewers then I don't think ESO would be the game you should be creating content for. If I was a streamer/content creator I would go where the gamers are, something like Fornite.

I see some comments like "why would anyone watch others play a game". Don't be a fool, streaming/content businesses are very hot right now. There is a reason why Amazon bought twitch, Google bought Youtube, and I think there is a Chinese company name Huya that is breaking record profits and becoming a very popular platform for e-sports.

I figure that people like people competing against each other, but often times they don't want to do it, or are not very good at it. That makes me think that this is why more people watch sports than play sports, and I guess the same could be the same for streaming PVP gaming.

I think that the "why would anyone watch others play a game" argument comes from PVE players, who watch streams for different reasons, when they watch streams.

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

Oh, now tell us what was the week preceding week of jan 20-26? You know THE week where spike (well, calling it a spike is quite generous) actually happened?



You really have to wonder about these people sometimes.

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."


THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

Or rework (DLC) dungeos to something people actually want ot play. As it would be new content for 99% of playerbase who have never bothered with them.

Scalable 1-4 players would be quite interesting offer. All normal+veteran difficulty (with optional HM just like now)

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Ogou wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

It is trends and it shows general interest in the game, it certainly doesnt show exact numbers but it does give a very good idea how it is doing.

Wrathstone was released recently....so where is the spike? but but but....DLC DUNGEONS!!!!!!!

It's clearly there. Filter by the last 12 months and you'll see the spike.

It is clearly NOT there, it is not that hard to hover over and the DATES, you should try it sometimes.



THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL

Yeah, the spike there is showing for the week of January 20-26. That's the week the Wrathstone DLC was announced (and released on the PTS).

No, thats the week that Elsweyr was announced,

Elsweyr was announced on the 15th. Wrathstone was officially announced and put on the PTS on the 22nd. Dude, that is really verifiable information.

Wrthstone is utter failure.....

It's starting to sound like something you want to be true no matter what. Wrathstone is doing fine since people will be running the dungeons for both gears and achievements.

as nicely shown in the graphs (not that we didnt already know from all other sources that dungeon DLCs have been nothing but complete fail for ZOS

Except, I already showed you that the graphs do not show that.
What other sources?

Oh, now tell us what was the week preceding week of jan 20-26? You know THE week where spike (well, calling it a spike is quite generous) actually happened?



You really have to wonder about these people sometimes.

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."


THIS is Wrathstone dungeon DLC PC release week (Feb 25th)....it is quite a FAIL But it is not surprising considering performance of previous dungeon DLCs.

I'm confused. Your own screenshot shows the peak being at the week of jan 20-26. You're contradicting yourself.

Oh, it's you! I knew I recognized your name from somewhere. So tell me, @MikaHR , since you have the ps4 trophy stats, what's the percentage of players who get to level 50? And since you're already there, what's the completion rate for the story DLC (Clockwork City, Murkmire). Because if we don't have anything to compare these numbers against they are pretty much useless.

Fengush has more views on eso then Spypher on what ever he is playing that week.

MikaHR wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.

Yup, same wow "its a MMO" kiddies yelling...well...ITS A MMO, "harder overland content"....because of new tier of gear, raids....cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!", vertical progression and new tier of gear cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!!"....and ArenaNet devs were stupid enough to listen....now theyre out of a job....well 50% of them.

Blizzard also had mass layoffs...cuz "its a MMO!!!!!!!!"

Um, ok. I know you hate raiding, but that isn't what I'm aiming at. Raiding in and of itself doesn't sink games. Catering exclusively to the high end players does. That said, in any MMO ecosystem, you need them. The ideal game caters to everyone to a reasonable extent. The big problem in any multiplayer scenario is the single difficulty level. You need multiple tiers, not one that ultimately satisfies none of us.

LiquidPony wrote: »

Haashhtaag wrote: »

https://imgur.com/Fyu9QNk

Actual viewers of Fengrush currently at 5:55PM CST

Viewers in chat != "actual viewers".

Viewers in chat == viewers in chat.

Quit trying to make it mean something it doesn't. You can be an "actual viewer" and not be in chat. I frequently run streams in the background on my work laptop where I'm not logged in to Twitch. That doesn't make me not an "actual viewer."

Yes, lurkers are real. However, viewer engagement in chat (overall) can help you to understand if people are actually watching a streamer, or if the streamer is pulling in unsuspecting views.

Hell, I frequently lurk in Bert's streams, and I'm actually a mod there, so I probably should be a bit more alert and alive.

Ok, so... I thought it would be good to point out that streamer viewership is not a direct indicator of players playing the game. If you're trying to divine the "population of ESO", you'd probably be better off reading tea leaves than looking at the viewership of streamers playing a 5 year old game that isn't centered around esports. Just saying...

jainiadral wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

jainiadral wrote: »

I played quite a bit afterwards. What drove the casual base away wasn't raiding or power creep, it was the huge difficulty spike in HoT's open world content and how grindy/solo-unfriendly the world and Mastery progression had become. I know well--it's a big part of why I quit the first time. By the time I'd hit the HoT expansion three months post-release, the maps were deserted and impossible to progress upon.

Raiding has never been GW2's problem. Instead it's been a combination of stale content releases, forgetting about their casual player base, having too many maps and thinning out the population, ignoring PvP and WvW, and terrible balancing decisions. Not to mention, being owned by NCSoft.

Yup, same wow "its a MMO" kiddies yelling...well...ITS A MMO, "harder overland content"....because of new tier of gear, raids....cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!", vertical progression and new tier of gear cuz "Its a MMO!!!!!!!!"....and ArenaNet devs were stupid enough to listen....now theyre out of a job....well 50% of them.

Blizzard also had mass layoffs...cuz "its a MMO!!!!!!!!"

Um, ok. I know you hate raiding, but that isn't what I'm aiming at. Raiding in and of itself doesn't sink games. Catering exclusively to the high end players does. That said, in any MMO ecosystem, you need them. The ideal game caters to everyone to a reasonable extent. The big problem in any multiplayer scenario is the single difficulty level. You need multiple tiers, not one that ultimately satisfies none of us.

There is no "catering to everyone". Game cannot be hardcore and casual at the same time. Unless you 100% instance it (like what DDO was). But then its just another lobby game and not open world game.

Game cannot have different tiers (becase of INSANE power creep for miniscule number of players) of general content at the same time. So now, because of insane power creep from CP and special snowflake PvE gear porton of people whine that "game is too easy" while portion claim its still "too hard". And yeah, im talking about WHOLE game and not tiny instanced part.

And at the end, dev hours are limited and VERY finite resource so if theyre working on thing A they are not working on thing B.

Many devs were stupid enough to fall into the trap and listen to that tiny part of population.....now theyre out of job and their games dead/dying. Just look at DLC dungeons in ESO and what EPIC fail those are....and then realize that "trials" are much worse than that.

srfrogg23 wrote: »

Ok, so... I thought it would be good to point out that streamer viewership is not a direct indicator of players playing the game. If you're trying to divine the "population of ESO", you'd probably be better off reading tea leaves than looking at the viewership of streamers playing a 5 year old game that isn't centered around esports. Just saying...

Well, ask ZOS why are they now wasting $$ on sponsoring streaming when in 5 years of ESO they didnt manage ot garner anything but miniscule viewership (becasue ESO is not and will never be anything close to e-sport....or even mildly interesting to watch)