Survivability comes with situational awareness and movement. I'm having no issues surviving as a medium wolf just because I know to avoid dangerous situations or block when needed.
I also have a few rules I set myself and I follow religiously hmmm I should collect them sometime...

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Nope at least none I know of. Your welcome to educate me if you know something like that for Xbox ;-)

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Nope at least none I know of. Your welcome to educate me if you know something like that for Xbox ;-)

Doesn't heavy attacking something force your pets to attack it too? I thought I read something like that.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

devilsTear wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Nope at least none I know of. Your welcome to educate me if you know something like that for Xbox ;-)

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Nope at least none I know of. Your welcome to educate me if you know something like that for Xbox ;-)

Doesn't heavy attacking something force your pets to attack it too? I thought I read something like that.

Yeah but you can't call them back :-/

Well, technically there's no reason to call them back unless you want them to attack a different target, and if so, you can just heavy attack that different target and they will switch.

thedude33 wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

I know this is kinda odd, but I'm playing as a DK breton pup.
Do I have any hope at all? I know breton is a magicka race, and the only benefit I see from using one is for the cheaper heal ("only" 400 less, but more sustain I guess).

The only way I thought it will be "meta", by wearing either "dragur hulk" or "bone pirate" (for more stamina), and some proc/damage set (for more weapon damage)...

Maybe one day they will change both werewolf and vampire to work off the highest stat instead of from an individual pool, but until then - can I do something to make my wolf work? or there is no chance?

I wouldn't worry about it. The differences between races arent that big as to make a werewolf useless. You will most likely be fine unless you are trying to perform in the top 0.1% group.

Thanks alot for cheering me up, I thought the same aswell (races only matter for PvE)
Do you have any tips/suggestions for a PVP breton dk werewolf? should I use the normal fury/bonepirate s&b+2h combo (as every stamdk using), or something special like a hybrid dw/bow or something?

Any breton pups over here? don't be shy to share your experience...

I've got a Breton wolf build in the works, haven't taken her for a spin yet but it looks promising. A Breton wolf's strength is in their survivability, which goes nicely with a dragonknight's defensive abilities. The Breton's max magicka, magicka regen, and magicka cost reduction means you can use your heal more often, while the extra magic resistance will help against all those ball groups running destro staves in PvP.

This means you can run a standard stamina/werewolf dps setup and have better healing than the average stamwolf, or really lean into the survivability and build a nigh-unkillable tank. With the new changes, the Curse Eater set could be particularly interesting on a build like that.

I'm taking a long look at Curse Eater for a couple of my characters, including WW. I need to find a set that is a little more survivable than many of the builds listed here.

Wyrd Tree is another option, but it has a spell damage buff that is essentially wasted in wolf form, while all of the new Curse Eater buffs are useful to a werewolf. (Just not for damage.)

juhislihis19 wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Survivability comes with situational awareness and movement. I'm having no issues surviving as a medium wolf just because I know to avoid dangerous situations or block when needed.
I also have a few rules I set myself and I follow religiously hmmm I should collect them sometime...

Do you or anyone here have problems with Werewolf break fee? I feel it's bugged. I can't break free immediately after CC. I have to press break free at least twice if not three times before I can get out. I thought of lag sure, but in human form my break free works quite well.

Break free is bugged in general, that's not just a wolf thing. I frequently get stunlocked in PvP, and even managed to do it accidentally to someone else in a duel once. We were both very surprised.

Edit: @Yoav You'd take Curse Eater for the purge, the magicka return is just a bonus. As for Pelinial's, in my experience it always underperforms compared to hybrid sets like Shacklebreaker or even just mixing a straight magicka set and a stamina set. Though it might work on a slapwolf build where you're just light attacking all the time. Also, keep in mind that a 'tank' wolf can still do some pretty decent damage thanks to bleeds and whatnot. You won't do as much damage as a purely DPS forcused wolf, but you don't have to just stand there holding block--that doesn't really work in PvP anyway.

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

thedude33 wrote: »

Mr_Wolfe wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

I know this is kinda odd, but I'm playing as a DK breton pup.
Do I have any hope at all? I know breton is a magicka race, and the only benefit I see from using one is for the cheaper heal ("only" 400 less, but more sustain I guess).

The only way I thought it will be "meta", by wearing either "dragur hulk" or "bone pirate" (for more stamina), and some proc/damage set (for more weapon damage)...

Maybe one day they will change both werewolf and vampire to work off the highest stat instead of from an individual pool, but until then - can I do something to make my wolf work? or there is no chance?

I wouldn't worry about it. The differences between races arent that big as to make a werewolf useless. You will most likely be fine unless you are trying to perform in the top 0.1% group.

Thanks alot for cheering me up, I thought the same aswell (races only matter for PvE)
Do you have any tips/suggestions for a PVP breton dk werewolf? should I use the normal fury/bonepirate s&b+2h combo (as every stamdk using), or something special like a hybrid dw/bow or something?

Any breton pups over here? don't be shy to share your experience...

I've got a Breton wolf build in the works, haven't taken her for a spin yet but it looks promising. A Breton wolf's strength is in their survivability, which goes nicely with a dragonknight's defensive abilities. The Breton's max magicka, magicka regen, and magicka cost reduction means you can use your heal more often, while the extra magic resistance will help against all those ball groups running destro staves in PvP.

This means you can run a standard stamina/werewolf dps setup and have better healing than the average stamwolf, or really lean into the survivability and build a nigh-unkillable tank. With the new changes, the Curse Eater set could be particularly interesting on a build like that.

I'm taking a long look at Curse Eater for a couple of my characters, including WW. I need to find a set that is a little more survivable than many of the builds listed here.

Wyrd Tree is another option, but it has a spell damage buff that is essentially wasted in wolf form, while all of the new Curse Eater buffs are useful to a werewolf. (Just not for damage.)

juhislihis19 wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Survivability comes with situational awareness and movement. I'm having no issues surviving as a medium wolf just because I know to avoid dangerous situations or block when needed.
I also have a few rules I set myself and I follow religiously hmmm I should collect them sometime...

Do you or anyone here have problems with Werewolf break fee? I feel it's bugged. I can't break free immediately after CC. I have to press break free at least twice if not three times before I can get out. I thought of lag sure, but in human form my break free works quite well.

Break free is bugged in general, that's not just a wolf thing. I frequently get stunlocked in PvP, and even managed to do it accidentally to someone else in a duel once. We were both very surprised.

Edit: @Yoav You'd take Curse Eater for the purge, the magicka return is just a bonus. As for Pelinial's, in my experience it always underperforms compared to hybrid sets like Shacklebreaker or even just mixing a straight magicka set and a stamina set. Though it might work on a slapwolf build where you're just light attacking all the time. Also, keep in mind that a 'tank' wolf can still do some pretty decent damage thanks to bleeds and whatnot. You won't do as much damage as a purely DPS forcused wolf, but you don't have to just stand there holding block--that doesn't really work in PvP anyway.

Hi.. I actually tried curse eater and it was very good.. sadly I got way more than 3 "negative effects".. so this set could be useful if it could "purge" the "hardest hitting" cc/snare/effect etc or something.. but it won't happen I guess

However, I tried another set - Deadly Strike and it seems to work pretty well (last passive is the most important - Increase the damage your Physical, Bleed, Poison, and Disease damage over time abilities do by 14%).

Sorry if I forgot to say that.. but most players are a "burst wolf" of kind - like buffing up, going to wolf form, killing and transform back. I don't like that "wolf", I'm more of "permawolf" person.. that one who can survive the whole bg match without going back into human.

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Same im a permawolf, I'll use the werewolf as long as possible in fights and only transform back when the fights end. That's why I also prefer bone pirate vs anything else, it synergies simply to well with the 30% extra stamina + 15% Stam recovery of the werewolf...

So the key point of having a good permawolf is using a set with 2 bonuses to max stamina, like spriggan, dragur hulk, bone pirate and shacklebreaker? that's it? or there is something more?

I think having a decent stamina pool is a must for all werewolves out there.. but I really wonder what is the thing that makes those pups different? a bigger health pool? stacking resistance over the cap? or something different at all?

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Same im a permawolf, I'll use the werewolf as long as possible in fights and only transform back when the fights end. That's why I also prefer bone pirate vs anything else, it synergies simply to well with the 30% extra stamina + 15% Stam recovery of the werewolf...

So the key point of having a good permawolf is using a set with 2 bonuses to max stamina, like spriggan, dragur hulk, bone pirate and shacklebreaker? that's it? or there is something more?

I think having a decent stamina pool is a must for all werewolves out there.. but I really wonder what is the thing that makes those pups different? a bigger health pool? stacking resistance over the cap? or something different at all?

Perma wolf needs some sort of boosted survival, as werewolf is naturally good at recovering from burst. Sustained survial is another thing.

Using things such as Prisoners, Desert Rose, Troll king, Lingering Health pots, and infused pot cool down on argonians can help sustained combat with a perma wolf.

Both Prisoner and Desert Rose sound very appealing to me, however how it's even possible to do damage with those sets, with prisoner helping werewolf only at more skills damage (with max stamina) and more regen, and desert rose with a more powerful heal.. and about troll king? if you are at 50% hp, well I guess you kinda at trouble, no?

Qbiken wrote: »

@Yoav

Personally I feel like hulking and bone-pirate are highly overrated on werewolfs. You don´t need it for sustain since you can rely on heavy attacks paired with Ferocious Roar (which gives around the same damage boost as Deafening Roar) for that, and damage wise you don´t need a huge stamina pool or super high weapon damage, at least not from my experience.

Sure it´s nice to have a high stamina pool, don´t get me wrong, but it means that you´ll be having trade-offs somewhere else. Personally I find the most annoying werewolfs to deal with, are the ones with a balanced mix of all stats (with some exception for health regen). If you want to play more of a permawolf I highly suggest investing more into max HP, max magicka and magicka regen by trading some max stamina and weapon damage.

Something like those then?

Yoav wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

IlCanis_LupuslI wrote: »

Same im a permawolf, I'll use the werewolf as long as possible in fights and only transform back when the fights end. That's why I also prefer bone pirate vs anything else, it synergies simply to well with the 30% extra stamina + 15% Stam recovery of the werewolf...

So the key point of having a good permawolf is using a set with 2 bonuses to max stamina, like spriggan, dragur hulk, bone pirate and shacklebreaker? that's it? or there is something more?

I think having a decent stamina pool is a must for all werewolves out there.. but I really wonder what is the thing that makes those pups different? a bigger health pool? stacking resistance over the cap? or something different at all?

Perma wolf needs some sort of boosted survival, as werewolf is naturally good at recovering from burst. Sustained survial is another thing.

Using things such as Prisoners, Desert Rose, Troll king, Lingering Health pots, and infused pot cool down on argonians can help sustained combat with a perma wolf.

Both Prisoner and Desert Rose sound very appealing to me, however how it's even possible to do damage with those sets, with prisoner helping werewolf only at more skills damage (with max stamina) and more regen, and desert rose with a more powerful heal.. and about troll king? if you are at 50% hp, well I guess you kinda at trouble, no?

Qbiken wrote: »

@Yoav

Personally I feel like hulking and bone-pirate are highly overrated on werewolfs. You don´t need it for sustain since you can rely on heavy attacks paired with Ferocious Roar (which gives around the same damage boost as Deafening Roar) for that, and damage wise you don´t need a huge stamina pool or super high weapon damage, at least not from my experience.

Sure it´s nice to have a high stamina pool, don´t get me wrong, but it means that you´ll be having trade-offs somewhere else. Personally I find the most annoying werewolfs to deal with, are the ones with a balanced mix of all stats (with some exception for health regen). If you want to play more of a permawolf I highly suggest investing more into max HP, max magicka and magicka regen by trading some max stamina and weapon damage.

Something like those then?

The classic pitfall of most werewolf pvpers... my response is.

You can't do damage when you are dead.

This is where I use my skills as a player to out play, out last and wear down my enemies.

As for trollking yeah you might dip below 50% health more often than you think, but that is the beauty of the wolf, the ability to recover a great amount of health very quickly. Though if you are not packing a lingering health pot you may have a harder time procing troll king. Where it isn't ideal for all werewolf builds it is helpful for some.

A lot of my No CP builds use 2 defensive sets and one damage set with offensive Traits on my jewls. They do plenty damage to kill 95% of players while being able to survive focus from multiple players.

Cp builds can usually get away with 2 offensive and one defensive sets due to how well werewolf scales with CP.

Werewolf Usually wear heavy armor the constitution comes in handy also healing received
Medium is only good in combination with shuffle imo.fortified & impreg are the best tank sets out there atm.
There is another set which reduces the damage done by players by 5 % and of aoe damage by another 20%
(bastion of the heartland) works also pretty well I can recommend it.

As @Qbiken and @Chrlynsch already said, a werewolf build that doesn't cover defensive prerequisites will be easily countered by experienced opponents.

Pillars of a well-rounded werewolf build :

Burst defense, can come from :

• Max Health to survive bigger bursts
• Resistances values to lower total burst damage
• Max Magicka to chain one or two more heals
• Spare Stamina to spend in Dodge and Block

^
Werewolf has strong burst defense already built-in (heal and resists) BUT you still need to add more if you are playing against strong opponents.

Sustained defense, can come from :

• Magicka Recovery to provide more heals per minute
• Health Recovery for free and consistent healing
• Resistances values to lower incoming DPS
• Some other source of sustained healing
• Spare Stamina to fear opponents every 7 sec

^
In my experience, this is were most werewolf builds are lacking, you can almost sense it when you overcome a werewolf' sustained defense and he turns from a predator to a prey.

Sustained offense, can come from :

• Weapon Damage
• Max Stamina
• Light Attacks
• Claws of Anguish (Major Defile), possibly every 4-7 sec
• Spare Stamina to fear opponents every 7 sec

^
That's pretty much it ... this simple combo, while not that impressive in terms of damage, is insanely cost efficient, and can be sustained indefinitely, pressuring your opponent until you finally overcome him. Coupled with Heavy attack on Off-balance, all the Stamina Regen you don't spend in Howls can be redistributed to other stats through gear choices, of used in the Defensive Pillars.

Burst offense, can come from :

• Max Stamina
• Weapon Damage
• Howl of Agony spam (weaved with Light Attacks)

^
In my experience, this is were most werewolf fighting mistakes are made. Burst offense is not your strongest point and should be your last priority. Of course you will need to spam Howls to finish a strong opponent, but most of the time the stamina should be saved for the other Pillars. (Fear every 7 seconds, CC Break, Claws, Dodge/block bursts)

Edit : this mostly applies when fighting skilled and experienced opponents, weaker targets (aka new players or potatoes) can be easily bursted with a few Howls, so you don't need Major Defile and can run Claws of Life to tank half a dozen of them ... but this is a completely different game, and werewolf has the potential to be much more than a potato eater.

True i always like having 1 glyph into mag recovery and as a khajiit i get 85(not much i know but its something) mag recovery on top, im at 1.2k-1.3k mag rec atm, should be enough imo

kollege14a5 wrote: »

What do you guys think about the new Alessian set for werewolf as a defensive set for no CP ?

I'm not an expert.. but if it's correct:
Let's say you have a human with with 30k of both resists, then the sum will be 60k. going ww will make that 60k a 80k, so a 1% would be 800 health recovery - which is like having 3 glyph of health regen and a steed mundus.
I think if you want to stack health regen, is better to use beekeeper or orgnum scale.

Yoav wrote: »

kollege14a5 wrote: »

What do you guys think about the new Alessian set for werewolf as a defensive set for no CP ?

I'm not an expert.. but if it's correct:
Let's say you have a human with with 30k of both resists, then the sum will be 60k. going ww will make that 60k a 80k, so a 1% would be 800 health recovery - which is like having 3 glyph of health regen and a steed mundus.
I think if you want to stack health regen, is better to use beekeeper or orgnum scale.

The thing is, you don't want to stack health recovery at all cost, you want health recovery from Troll King because it comes in very, very high amount, or from Arteum Food because it comes on top everything else with no sacrifice (compared to Dubious), etc..

Alessian is a good werewolf set, better than Beekeeper or Orgnum, especially if you use Chudan or get Major Resistances from pots.

Aznox wrote: »

Yoav wrote: »

kollege14a5 wrote: »

What do you guys think about the new Alessian set for werewolf as a defensive set for no CP ?

I'm not an expert.. but if it's correct:
Let's say you have a human with with 30k of both resists, then the sum will be 60k. going ww will make that 60k a 80k, so a 1% would be 800 health recovery - which is like having 3 glyph of health regen and a steed mundus.
I think if you want to stack health regen, is better to use beekeeper or orgnum scale.

The thing is, you don't want to stack health recovery at all cost, you want health recovery from Troll King because it comes in very, very high amount, or from Arteum Food because it comes on top everything else with no sacrifice (compared to Dubious), etc..

Alessian is a good werewolf set, better than Beekeeper or Orgnum, especially if you use Chudan or get Major Resistances from pots.

Challenge accepted...