Why are they nerfing dungeons?

Kova · March 2019

2019 is gonna be wild for gaming. People might actually have to get real world hobbies to feel challenged.

Coming from a group of people that use to solo hard content and 4 -man the trials, I honestly welcome this change. I remember the hardest part about getting better was that stagnant middle ground thats can be difficult to grind through without giving up.

I do, however, feel as though I've lost massive amounts of interest in the game and this has only exacerbated the feeling.

profundidob16_ESO · March 2019

wnights wrote: »

The thing is, creating different levels of dungeons won't work, because:

players: but we want to complete vet content to get the skins / etc. too!

players who put effort into vet content: you just need to practice and learn the mechanics

players: but it's a game! Games should be fun and not require any effort. I don't have time for mechanics

Zos: fine we'll make it easier

No matter how many levels there are higher levels will always bring some sort of reward that casual players would also want to get but wouldn't be willing to out effort in it.

Of course I am generilizing as sometimes people can't do hard content for other reasons than laziness

QFT. Only last night I got to see yet another great example of this:

a group in zonechat asks for a third dps for a vet Frostvault speedrun to complete the group to which I respond I could join as healer instead. Since I have over 40 runs in there by now since PTS 4.3.0 and I love the dungeon I think to myself "why not ?". They agree and I join the apparently premade group of a tank and 2 dps as healer:

Upon pulling the very first thrash pack dps player 1 runs away with the meteor aoe, blowing himself up and clearly demonstrating he has no clue about the mechanics of trash. I kindly explain in groupchat that you're supposed to share it like Siroria, as I keep bombarding the group with healing springs, BOL as well as orbs and spears every 10 sec which seem to go unused. No feedback, zero communication so most likely they are together on some sort of voicecom I assume at this point.

On first frostvault boss (the Troll) the other dps runs away from the boss causing him to jump and get himself killed while we're far away slowed with the adds, clearly demonstrating he has no clue about mechanics. Since the other dps has no intention of rezzing I rezz him and in the 2 seconds I was busy rezzing the tank actually manages to die like a paper weight without being pinned down. No selfheal or shields apparently. Clearly not equipped as a tank for this dungeon. Again I kindly explain why they should stick around the boss inside healing springs and ready to interrupt him while we finish the boss and I besides all healing spells I keep bombarding the group with a orbs and spears which again seem to go unused. Still no feedback, zero communication so now I'm pretty sure they are together on some sort of voicecom.

On second boss Tzogvin I already know what kind of clowns I'm dealing with so I tell them before the fight starts "on ice winds phase please all run counter clockwise" because I can already predict what the next noob error will be. To my great surprise on first ice wind both dps keep standing perfectly still as an ice wind slowly passes through them and basically 2shots them before they realize what is happening. As I rezz the first person...BOOM our paper tank who clearly didn't believe the ice wind in center could hurt him is now dead...I rezz everone over and over and kindly explain that this is the reason they should run counter clockwise on outer ridge of circle until they finally get the basic mechanics and we finish boss. All this while bombarding the group with orbs and spears which again seem to largely go unused...Still no feedback, zero communication so now I'm 100% sure they are together on some sort of voicecom and choose to ignore my writings.

on third boss The vault protector (laser boss) 2 untaunted and unkilled spheres (there are never supposed to be 2 up at the same time..) keep 1 -shotting the dps and myself this time through all the ongoing aoe as we do the laser mechanics, despite the double springs up and BOL spam. The tank clearly demonstrates not knowing that he has to taunt the adds and the dps that they don't feel a need to kill the adds. We're about to have our third sphere pop-up...wipe. I kindly explain mechanics and tactics and keep saving them until we finish. All this while bombarding the group with orbs and spears which again seem to largely go unused because they are obviously 100% focused on the 'new' mechanics. Still zero feedback, zero communication. At this point I feel I'm talking to the walls but my personal amusement is triggered officially and now I want to see what more these clowns will come up with...

4th boss Rizzuk they charge in making sure I can't even type a word.... I take extra distance from everyone to make sure they don't blow me up while staying yet close enough to keep them showered in springs, orbs etc..Upon first freeze mechanic both dps are stacked blowing themselves up and the tank rolls out of glacial prison straight in my direction and overlaps his aoe with mine, blowing me up. I'm hard laughing behind my desk at this point. We go again and next freeze phase 1 of the dps comes stand exactly on top of me, clearly thinking this is the same mechanic as the thrash where you have to share the aoe

BOOM !

:) I kindly explain mechanics until we finally finish. All this while bombarding the group with orbs and spears which again seem to largely go unused...Still zero feedback and zero communication.

Last boss Stonekeeper the unhandled spheres and centurions together with the slowing spiders wipe us during the first rotating fire arm phase. At this point I see the first feedback of the tank in chat: "RIP speedrun timer..." as we have barely started the last boss fight and are already well past the 30min timer. I'm thinking to myself "that's pretty logical if a group wipes to every boss because people don't know any mechanics" and I remember I had realized already on the first thrash pack in the dungeon that a speedrun with this group was not going to happen most likely if trash mechanics are not known. After the necessary deaths and wipes we eventually finish the last boss. All this while again bombarding the group with orbs and spears which again seem to largely go unused...

As the fight is finished and the speedrun obviously failed a this point the tank now types in groupchat: "Now we run the dungeon again without dying ok ?" to which I respond: "No, I'm sorry but if you want to do achievements such as HM or speedrun you're first going to have to learn the basic mechanics of this dungeon. I'll be happy to run again tommorrow (it's well past midnight on a workday)

to which the first dps now types in groupchat for the first time: "I would like some orbs though..."

I politely respond with: "At least we got some loot. Take care all" and leave group

to which the tank responds with "F3ck the loot" and that same dps explicitly types in /say channel "can we get a proper healer now ?" in an attempt to snare at me during the last 5 seconds for calling out the truth.

So these people clearly persist in attempting a higher difficulty level (achievements runs such as speedrun) while not even having the slightest clue about the previous difficulty level (complete veteran while understanding mechanics) or willingness to learn anything about that dungeon.

code65536 · March 2019

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Upon pulling the very first thrash pack dps player 1 runs away with the meteor aoe, blowing himself up and clearly demonstrating he has no clue about the mechanics of trash. I kindly explain in groupchat that you're supposed to share it like Siroria

We just block the meteor--we never stack it. It just tickles if it's blocked. During the first week of PTS, we did try stacking, and the results were inconclusive. It seemed to reduce damage sometimes, and sometimes it didn't. In any case, ever since that ability was adjusted during the later PTS weeks, it's become pretty inconsequential--just block and you're fine.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

The tank clearly demonstrates not knowing that he has to taunt the adds and the dps that they don't feel a need to kill the adds.

To be fair, we don't bother with taunting the adds either. But they are definitely kill priorities and we drop ults on them since they are far more dangerous than the boss itself.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Last boss Stonekeeper

I'm impressed such a group made it that far though.

profundidob16_ESO · March 2019

code65536 wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Upon pulling the very first thrash pack dps player 1 runs away with the meteor aoe, blowing himself up and clearly demonstrating he has no clue about the mechanics of trash. I kindly explain in groupchat that you're supposed to share it like Siroria

We just block the meteor--we never stack it. It just tickles if it's blocked. During the first week of PTS, we did try stacking, and the results were inconclusive. It seemed to reduce damage sometimes, and sometimes it didn't. In any case, ever since that ability was adjusted during the later PTS weeks, it's become pretty inconsequential--just block and you're fine.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

The tank clearly demonstrates not knowing that he has to taunt the adds and the dps that they don't feel a need to kill the adds.

To be fair, we don't bother with taunting the adds either. But they are definitely kill priorities and we drop ults on them since they are far more dangerous than the boss itself.

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Last boss Stonekeeper

I'm impressed such a group made it that far though.

per person you stack extra the dmge reduces. Stack with all 4 and you take zero dmge and can even maximize dps through it for perfectionist's sake (not that any of it matters on trash ofc =P) It seems to be 100% accurately working to me so far but you're right. With a good health pool even blocking/shielding through it is possible.

The taunting of spheres is mainly for their shooting of the aoe circle so it goes to tank instead of dps/healer. One can even interrupt them but usually too much stuff is going on for anyone to actually have time to interrupt them and dps can better spend their time killing them.

Now Code, for the record and in order to clarify the context of your comments to others reading this part, they must know first that you in particular are quite the opposite from the group I ran with yesterday (you are someone who actually studies all mechanics in great detail from PTS day 1) and in doing so you obviously also find alot of working alternative ways to deal with these ultimately forgiving mechanics but then again you are a very experienced player skilled in hardmode content and all mechanics, nothing like the average player. I assure you that these players would not get away with applying the tactics your group managed to use

Still it was superfunny this was an actual attempt at speedrun in the sense of "just run faster, die faster, and rezz faster" =P =P

Agenericname · March 2019

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

Malprave wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

mcagatayg wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

mcagatayg wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Ohtimbar wrote: »

Very good. Maybe this will get more players involved. The small minority of players who run more difficult content have a blind spot for the average ESO player. I do not. I'm married to one, and have friends who also fall into the casual category. The average player does not want to be challenged beyond their limits, and they don't want to make this game a life goal. Accessibility matters, and this sort of thing is a step in the right direction. Hard mode isn't being nerfed, and there's no need to be snide about the skill level of players who just want to have fun. Sad, really, that any of that even needs to be said.

Accessibility was always there. It was called normal mode. Vet was supposed to be for those looking for a challenge.

True. ZoS nerfing dungeons is like you getting a participation trophy... Useless, and rewards laziness...

If you want a real trophy, go win some real trophies...in real world.

Someone playing computer games talking about "participation trophies", "uselessness" and "laziness"....

Whats the point of achievements then? Why people play this kind of games? I do it for the achievement, and when that achievement lose value, i feel bad because i tried so hard to earn that achievement.

I wanted to show the "nerfing" example of that in real life by talking about participation trophies. This game already has that, you get free stuff just by porting in anyway...

Most people play for fun.

Most people don't want everything to be too easy; but, they don't want to feel forced to do hard content.

Some of those people want to be able to choose to do it.

Then there's you - the highly verbal minority - who wants to force everyone else to do what you want to do.

Even though that means killing the games you play.

Wildstar being the latest casualty.

IMO what’s actually happening here is the majority is forcing the minority to accept a diluted game experience. The nerfing of the dlc dungeons effectively limits the replay value for that minority.

Nah, it’s kinda the opposite. Some forumgoer on here basically told me to play the minority’s way or don’t play them at all cause I’d be “a burden to my group” for trying dungeons for the first time. They also said something along the lines of “thanks for not queuing”.

Some people eat Tide Pods, it's best not to take everyone so seriously.

You've mentioned several times that you refuse to participate in the dungeons because of something someone on the forums has said. That's your choice, but an unreasonable one in my opinion. The actual content is nothing like the forums.

Listen to them if you'd like, but that's on you.

I read the forums and I run the content. They're not the same.

The people complaining that the vet DLCs ("the vocal minority") are too easy, whether right or wrong, most likely won't care what your DPS in a normal or base game vet dungeons. Wear gear, don't wear gear, use a broom, it won't matter to them in that level of content.

If they're offering non-constructive criticism in that level of content, they're either simply off-kilter, in which case you should ignore them anyway, or they're not who you think they are.

code65536 · March 2019

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

The taunting of spheres is mainly for their shooting of the aoe circle so it goes to tank instead of dps/healer. One can even interrupt them but usually too much stuff is going on for anyone to actually have time to interrupt them and dps can better spend their time killing them.

Yea, that makes sense if the group has low awareness and isn't killing them. The spheres are most deadly during the laser phases because many times you just don't have the option of sidestepping the wave and you just gotta eat it. But during the laser phase, everyone is stacked together anyway, so it doesn't matter if the wave targets the tank.

And, yea, we try to interrupt those dwemer love-making sessions when we can, but most of the time, it's just not practical.

per person you stack extra the dmge reduces. Stack with all 4 and you take zero dmge and can even maximize dps through it for perfectionist's sake (not that any of it matters on trash ofc =P) It seems to be 100% accurately working to me so far but you're right. With a good health pool even blocking/shielding through it is possible.

Okay, thanks, that's good to know. We were stacking during that first PTS week, but there were a few times when we died even when stacked, so I was doubting that we had understood it correctly.

p00tx · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

DLC dungeons have an obvious issues: no one wants to play them and ZOS is losing money on them. Completion and interest rates in these dungeons are an epic failure for ZOS. So they have 2 choices: make them much more popular or just stop making them. And shoving all the rewards (that you are crying about) didn't help a bit...as they just show up on cash shop to mitigate utter participation/interest and financial failure.

Seems you just cant grasp why are they nerfing them, thus your topic on the forums, and the answer was given to you plenty of times yet you just ignore it and rant on.

No, you have absolutely no concept what hard work is, and it has all to do with real life when someone uses "hard work" in reference to computer game.

Not to mention the absolutely toxic "community" (nicely shown in these kind of threads) that has formed up around "dungeon DLCs"....it rivals raid level toxicity! No, you're not really helping.

The only toxicity I'm seeing at this moment is in your posts. The world has changed, and hard work does not just pertain to physical labor (It's not 1930 any more). People work on computers now, and they spend long hours at their desks, keeping up with insane deadlines and under a lot of pressure. That very much qualifies as hard work.

I get what you're trying to say, and if you have real data with properly cited sources to support your claims of Zos being in financial crisis due to the "failure of the DLC dungeons", then that is a conversation worth having. As of right now, you are just angrily lashing out at anyone not agreeing with you, and making unfounded claims to support your unreasonable rage.

MikaHR · March 2019

Yeah, and if their employer finds out theyre playing computer games im sure he will be understanding about their "hard work". Not.

ZOS is not in financial crisis (ESO at least, FO76 is another matter completely), but these DLC dungeons are dead content that costed $$ and resources to produce, and dev hours are quite finite resource, meaning if theyre working on that dead content they are not working on something that could keep other 99.9% occupied.

Where have i "angrily lashed" on anyone? Not my problem people cant handle the facts (or are "hard working" at disbelieving them).

Parasaurolophus · March 2019

MikaHR wrote: »

Yeah, and if their employer finds out theyre playing computer games im sure he will be understanding about their "hard work". Not.

ZOS is not in financial crisis (ESO at least, FO76 is another matter completely), but these DLC dungeons are dead content that costed $$ and resources to produce, and dev hours are quite finite resource, meaning if theyre working on that dead content they are not working on something that could keep other 99.9% occupied.

Where have i "angrily lashed" on anyone? Not my problem people cant handle the facts (or are "hard working" at disbelieving them).

Why do you think dlc dungeons is dead content? Is there any statistics?

Tan9oSuccka · March 2019

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Yeah, and if their employer finds out theyre playing computer games im sure he will be understanding about their "hard work". Not.

ZOS is not in financial crisis (ESO at least, FO76 is another matter completely), but these DLC dungeons are dead content that costed $$ and resources to produce, and dev hours are quite finite resource, meaning if theyre working on that dead content they are not working on something that could keep other 99.9% occupied.

Where have i "angrily lashed" on anyone? Not my problem people cant handle the facts (or are "hard working" at disbelieving them).

Why do you think dlc dungeons is dead content? Is there any statistics?

I’m sure it’s anecdotal, however, I never run them and my friends and guild mates don’t either.

It’s more a time thing for me. They take way too long. Rewards are not worth the time.

I’ve been doing them on normal for the skill point and never running them again.

IzzyStardust · March 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey folks, we wanted to touch base to help explain some of the Dungeon difficulty adjustments in today’s patch and our reasoning behind them. The changes were first started during the Wrathstone update but just didn’t quite get finished in time. These changes were done as part of an evaluation of completion rates and drop off. We took a look at all of the Dungeon bosses and how often they were completed in relation to how often they were fought. We narrowed down several that seemed to be stumbling blocks for players and dungeons as a whole. From there we evaluated the bosses individually, auditing all of their abilities to see what was killing players and how each ability or add related to the fight’s overall difficulty.

There is no other reason for these changes other than looking at numbers and making adjustments to get more players into and completing these encounters. We will continue this process in the hopes of a better experience for all players. We appreciate that some players like the difficulty of encounters and we strive to maintain some of that while alleviating some of the break points. We hope this has cleared some things up for those players questioning the changes.

As a aside, Hard Modes, in our view, are the space where we can challenge players that seek to push themselves to the limit in four-player content. With this in mind, we have no plans to make any changes to reduce that difficulty.

I mean most of us have done these too many times over and over, so who cares, Cx. We know the mechanics by heart and what to do to the point that even vet trials are not what they were and plus many guilds cheese them anyway but that is a different matter. This is simply what happens when we have played the same game for years, which is why they have newer content added more then any other game without fail. Zos, does meet their mark on that because we have a lot of new exciting things coming towards us in Elsweyr.

I just think a lot of the comments that were made are toxic and unnecessary. Zos made a decision and this gives more of a enjoyable experience to newer random groups on old content. Which is good since most players, even myself, run with their guildies. And from our experience and time in the game is the reason why we burn through this stuff so fast. I was happy when I achieved my first vMoL clear but I am more happy that ESO has new life always coming into it.

You can always make a NA or EU account that is opposite of what you already have and create some fun by starting fresh. Especially, if getting 'The Unchained' title is boring and too easy for you.

New players care. ❤️

MikaHR · March 2019

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

Why do you think dlc dungeons is dead content? Is there any statistics?

Yes

"Just some stats from PS4 trophies.

4.5% of all ESO PS4 players have cleared all DC base game group dungeons, 4.4% for AD and EP group dungeons at least on normal.

2.6% have cleared Mazzatun and 2.4% have completed Cradle of Shadows at least on normal difficulty.

1.6% have completed Bloodroot Forge and the same number have completed Falkreath Hold on at least normal difficulty.

1.4% have cleared Scalecaller and the same number have cleared Fang Lair on at least normal difficulty.

0.7% have cleared March of Sacrifices on at least normal, and 0.6% have cleared MHK on at least normal difficulty.

When you start looking at the completion rates for both dungeons on veteran in each pack, you’re at 0.5% for Shadows of the Hist, 0.2% for Horns of the Reach and Dragon Bones, and 0.1% for Wolfhunter."

BuddyAces · March 2019

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

MikaHR wrote: »

Yeah, and if their employer finds out theyre playing computer games im sure he will be understanding about their "hard work". Not.

ZOS is not in financial crisis (ESO at least, FO76 is another matter completely), but these DLC dungeons are dead content that costed $$ and resources to produce, and dev hours are quite finite resource, meaning if theyre working on that dead content they are not working on something that could keep other 99.9% occupied.

Where have i "angrily lashed" on anyone? Not my problem people cant handle the facts (or are "hard working" at disbelieving them).

Why do you think dlc dungeons is dead content? Is there any statistics?

I’m sure it’s anecdotal, however, I never run them and my friends and guild mates don’t either.

It’s more a time thing for me. They take way too long. Rewards are not worth the time.

I’ve been doing them on normal for the skill point and never running them again.

Ruins, bloodroot, and maybe scalecaller. Those are 3 'longer" ones. The rest are no longer than a lot of base game dungeons.

Facefister · March 2019

@MikaHR

Level 50 Hero
Reach Level 50.
[1.10% of global PSN users have earned this trophy] 19.65%

The God of Schemes
Complete Main Quest Chapter 6.
[2.10% of global PSN users have earned this trophy] 17.56%

Alliance War Recruit
Earn the rank of Recruit in the Alliance War.
[12.10% of global PSN users have earned this trophy] 18.49%

Dawn of a Champion
Spend your first Champion Point.
[10.60% of global PSN users have earned this trophy] 19.27%

Facefister · March 2019

Public dungeons need to be nerfed!

Aldmeri Dominion Conqueror
Defeat all of the Public Dungeon champions in the Aldmeri Dominion.
[0.80% of global PSN users have earned this trophy] 3.01%

MikaHR · March 2019

And that is still 30 TIMES better than Wolfhunter dungeon DLC. Amazing.

And a way to prove my point for all those claiming ESO needs "harder overland content"....not. Thanks for shutting THAT argument down.

randomkeyhits · March 2019

I can see both sides of the coin, for easing difficulty and for keeping it.

I would have preferred for the difficulty to be kept but instead have a really clear difficulty indicator for each dungeon.

This way newer players know what the easier ones are and thus the ones they can have an expectation of completing.

It also tells them which are likely to be the next they can complete or be working towards.

This would treat the normal and vet as different dungeons and being able to see the difficulty difference would make it clear to new players that they have some work before trying them. Some of course will try anyway but for many its a way of focussing their efforts.

MikaHR · March 2019

Thats great, keep those very few people trying now from even trying.

They wont focus anything, in fact they would unsub even faster to avoid them....and made sure to not mistakenly buy any of it as they can currently make that mistake by being unaware what they are buying under the illusion they are same as base game dungeons.

BuddyAces · March 2019

Does it irk people that bad that there is content that they refuse to learn that they need it dumbed down so much? Nermal is easy. Drops the same gear other than the monster set, which if you can't clear the place, isn't going to help you anyways.

Mettaricana · March 2019

LadySinflower wrote: »

At the risk of p*ss*ng some people off let me give a point of view from the other side of the issue. I am a CP380 magblade and I guess I'm a DPS even though I haven't built my character for anything specific to dungeons. I had no clue when I started the game and she (my toon) is a Nord. I am not an elite anything and doubt I will ever be. I've never been in any of the dungeons you're talking about even on easy mode. The reason is because the rare times I do try to group for a dungeon there's always some jerk worried about my low CP level or complaining when I don't immediately know mechanics (despite never having been in the place before). I'm not looking for a freebie and it would be no fun if you could one-shot the boss and be done. But I do get frustrated and give up if after 100+ tries at something it is still overwhelming despite my best efforts to understand how to beat the mechanics. Maybe I suck at it, and I'm sure you're a better player than me, but I'd be willing to guess that there are more who suck than those who don't. Some people will try 3-4 times and give up if they think the difficulty is too insane. People in general are not patient and many (if not most) are looking for instant gratification even in a known difficult task in a video game. I bet there are more of me (who falls into neither category), the easy-giver-uppers, and the IG seekers in the game than there are the "I beat so-and-so on vet mode at level 15 with mismatch gear and no healer or tank in the group what is wrong with you" people.

ZoS can't make money if they only cater to a small percentage of the community. If they make content hard enough for only the 1% of the 1% and it drives everybody else away, nobody else gets to see the gear or other rewards they worked so hard to build into the game. And believe me, every dev who designed one of those things is more than eager to see their creation being used and enjoyed by the player base. If only a select few can earn any rewards and the other 99.9% cannot, people will start to complain. There are those who complain in forums or feedback, and there are those who just cancel all subscriptions and/or stop playing. If ZoS sees a lot of that happening they will attempt to study the problem. Whether you agree that they are right or wrong they will make decisions based on that research.

Then they start to make changes that they hope will keep them from losing more players. And there will be a few 0.1%ers who will rage quit because they are making it "too easy." If you're in ZoS's shoes, who can your bottom line better afford to lose? 1000 elitists or 1,000,000 people who quit because they thought it was too difficult? You know the complaints. "No chance to earn rewards." "Everything out of reach." "I don't have time to gain the skill levels required." "I don't want to grind. I want to have fun." "I want to see something right away for my efforts." "I'm paying money. Don't I have that right?" "I spent an hour in one room and still didn't beat it! I don't have enough playing time available to spend a whole hour in one room!"

ZoS doesn't want to lose anybody. They want everybody's money. When given the choice of maybe driving away a tiny percentage of players to attract and keep a much larger majority, what side do you think will win? The people sitting in the seats doing the work do care, but they don't make the big decisions. Money makes the big decisions. So they nerf and tweak and make people angry. It's just gonna happen. Not everybody is great at these games, but they are mass-marketed to everybody. We don't get a choice of who picks up the game, how much effort they will put into it, or how much skill they will develop. But we do have to deal with the fallout when they *** enough to get the company to make changes (which will then result in more bitching but that's a rant for another day).

TL;DR ZoS makes these decisions based on the majority of the player base (and their money), who are probably not as good a player as you are.

I am semi elite and i support this!

Jhalin · March 2019

19.27% reached level 50

4.5 - 23.4% completed all the base DC dungeons, 4.4 - 22.8% completed all the base EP and AD dungeons

2.6 - 13.5% completed RoM

2.4 - 12.5% completed CoS

1.6 - 8.3% completed BRF

1.6 - 8.3% completed FH

1.4 - 7.3% completed SCP

1.4 - 7.3% completed Fang Lair

.7 - 3.6% completed MoS

.6 - 3.1% completed MHK

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, especially cosindering Wolfhunter has only been available a few months. The rest are sitting at pretty healthy completion rates nearing 10%

thedude33 · March 2019

code65536 wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

vet and HM should be a goal for newer players not a "right" .. you can already 3 ( sometimes 4 DPS ) every 4 man in the game. It is even most times "safer" to do so since you skip most mechs.

Okay, I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

The whole "healer won't be needed anymore" thing is a red herring. The two fights that got the heaviest nerfs are Planar and Bull. In either of these cases, the things that are nerfed are things that a healer won't have helped you with anyway. Every experienced group (the kind that would go healerless) just straight burn Planar without ever cycling the pinion, so the pinion change doesn't affect them. Getting caught during the blue phase is a guaranteed death that cannot be saved with healing so the snare change just means if I'm PUGing I can handle blue phase solo without relying on the puglets to grab the pinion to save me. (Plus, it's not a very intuitive mechanic--I've spent a lot of keystrokes trying to explain how it works.)

For the bull boss, if you fail to kill the stone atronachs quickly enough, they will wipe you, and a healer will at most buy you a few extra seconds.

So, in practical terms, what actually changed with respect to healer need? Nothing.

So why were these changes made? Well, whenever I queue for a random vet and get Bloodroot and see the blue portal at the entrance, it's always been the bull boss. Same thing with vWGT. If I get queued into a half-completed instance, I already know exactly where that blue portal is going to take me.

The final bosses weren't heavily nerfed. The Hard Modes weren't touched. I suspect ZOS thinks that this makes for a better progression of difficulty through the dungeon.

Voice of reason and common sense are not welcome around these parts hoss

Facefister · March 2019

Jhalin wrote: »

19.27% reached level 50

4.5 - 23.4% completed all the base DC dungeons, 4.4 - 22.8% completed all the base EP and AD dungeons

2.6 - 13.5% completed RoM

2.4 - 12.5% completed CoS

1.6 - 8.3% completed BRF

1.6 - 8.3% completed FH

1.4 - 7.3% completed SCP

1.4 - 7.3% completed Fang Lair

.7 - 3.6% completed MoS

.6 - 3.1% completed MHK

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, especially cosindering Wolfhunter has only been available a few months. The rest are sitting at pretty healthy completion rates nearing 10%

The "19.27%" doesn't take quitters, pvpers or any other people who are not interested in dungeons into account.

MikaHR · March 2019

Yeah, 90% dropoff is clear sign of health!

And pvpers, or people not interested in dungeons are not ESO playerbase!

Zhoyzu · March 2019

i dont understand why people are complaining. anytime you ask someone who cries about these nerfs to run a vet DLC with you they complain its too hard.

i guess they just want to complain and arent invested in anything to begin with

Facefister · March 2019

The "100%" also doesn't take free-weekend players into account. @MikaHR, at this point, you're ridiculing yourself. Do yourself a favour and stop.

Jhalin · March 2019

Facefister wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

19.27% reached level 50

4.5 - 23.4% completed all the base DC dungeons, 4.4 - 22.8% completed all the base EP and AD dungeons

2.6 - 13.5% completed RoM

2.4 - 12.5% completed CoS

1.6 - 8.3% completed BRF

1.6 - 8.3% completed FH

1.4 - 7.3% completed SCP

1.4 - 7.3% completed Fang Lair

.7 - 3.6% completed MoS

.6 - 3.1% completed MHK

Seems perfectly reasonable to me, especially cosindering Wolfhunter has only been available a few months. The rest are sitting at pretty healthy completion rates nearing 10%

The "19.27%" doesn't take quitters, pvpers or any other people who are not interested in dungeons into account.

Exactly, the completion rates of people able and willing to enter the dungeons are higher than what’s calculated based on just the lvl50+. Unfortunately there’s no way to access that data to figure out more accurate numbers.

Jhalin · March 2019

Zhoyzu wrote: »

i dont understand why people are complaining. anytime you ask someone who cries about these nerfs to run a vet DLC with you they complain its too hard.

i guess they just want to complain and arent invested in anything to begin with

Lol, sounds like some BS xD

Not to mention there’s a difference between knowing your own limits and being aware none of these dungeons needed to have their mechanics dumbed down. You can improve to clear the content, the content shouldn’t be brought down because some people refuse to.

disintegr8 · March 2019

What is the point of running vet dungeons unless you want helmets?

Having played for over 3 years and currently having all of the monster helms I want, the only reason I run undaunted dungeons is to level undaunted on new characters. When doing this I ignore DLC dungeons and only run normal on the others. If I was after the daily random bonus XP, I get as much credit from a normal as vet, so why would I choose vet?

I've never tried vet MHK, vet MoS or vet CoS because there is no reason to. I have only run most of the other vet DLC dungeons once because there is no reason to go back. I do not crave the challenges and there is no other reason to do them.

I wanted to do vet FH and BRF because there was a house locked behind them. The rewards don't justify the time and effort for the rest of the harder vet dungeons, especially if people have to use group finder.

Whether nerfing them will entice me in, only time will tell.

Mr_Walker · March 2019

Malprave wrote: »

IMO what’s actually happening here is the majority is forcing the minority to accept a diluted game experience. The nerfing of the dlc dungeons effectively limits the replay value for that minority.

And the flipside to that is the difficulty level of dlc dungeons limits the playability for the majority. Businesses succeed by appealing to lots of people. Those that don't tend to wildstar.