Maintenance for the week of January 5:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Minor Toughness Behind Paywall?
-
LukosCreyden✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyone who is serious enough to care about Minor Toughness already got Warden at Morrowind launch.
Smh people are just looking for reasons to grab them pitchforks.Struggling to find a new class to call home.Please send help.5 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticedWar Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
Ya when i read this the first thing i thought was that this should not be locked behind a pay wall if its going to be the only way to get the buff, from a skill, in game. I know people can use ebon but why force people to run a set? Why not give them more options? Either bring a warden, bring a player with ebon, or bring warhorn...0 -
lassitershawn✭✭✭✭✭In any event, it isn't more P2W than trial sets (like Arch or WM coming out of the same chapter/dlc). Most players who care already have Morrowwind for vHoF. Wardens are pretty bad rn and have been for a long time in PvE so I'm happy to see them getting some more use (even if everything else about the patch annoys me to no end).Edited by lassitershawn on January 8, 2019 6:58PMWilliam Thorne - EP Breton Sorcerer
Astrid Winterborn - EP Breton Warden
Erik Ironskin - EP Nord Dragonknight
Venasa Viri - EP Dunmer Nightblade
IR x8, GH x5, TTT x20 -
Tremors✭✭✭
Also a paywall technicallySo everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticedWar Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
Ah Warrior Poet?
But the issue here is giving it to your teammates, no ones going to wear the set on its own lol
They really should just make warrior poet apply to the group. Similar to ebon, done.Passionfruit GM - PC NA
Godslayer | Dawnbringer2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LukosCreyden wrote: »Anyone who is serious enough to care about Minor Toughness already got Warden at Morrowind launch.
Smh people are just looking for reasons to grab them pitchforks.
You are making a huge assumption here buy suggesting no one but the top raid teams are interested in Minor Toughness.
You are also making a huge assumption that all good healers have warden healers and want to heal raids on them.
Both poor justification for supporting Zos pushing this beneficial and used buff behind a pay wall.
0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »The paywall thing isn't an issue as every single endgame player has the warden. The problem is that rather than buffing them to increase their usage, they gave them a unique buff to artificially force people to use them. Wardens are still hot trash, except now they have a unique buff.
Stamina Wardens are going to be just as good as Stamblades next patch. Actually, all Stamina classes are going to be basically equal in terms of DPS next patch.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
sneakymitchell✭✭✭✭The game itself is pay to win... Without the game, you cannot win.
-keevil111
Not really. It just helps with gold with potions and such.
A warden won’t matter much. Also I don’t see players using the pjssic skill much and I see plenty of players in Summerset. Makes me think players rather get use to the things they are used too on thier character. Even if the skill lines is strong.NA-Xbox one- Ebonheart Pact- Nord Tank DK
PC-NA Ebonheart Pact Nord Stam Templar0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭RedVyperOfDorne wrote: »
Also a paywall technicallySo everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticedWar Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
Ah Warrior Poet?
But the issue here is giving it to your teammates, no ones going to wear the set on its own lol
They really should just make warrior poet apply to the group. Similar to ebon, done.
Yes, it's a minor buff so can't stack anyway and I really like percentage based buffs and group buffs. I also like the obligatory effects like the red orbs. Maybe they can make it some new cool graphical effect.0 -
Namarkas✭✭✭https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437274/give-toughness-to-the-sturdy-horn-morph
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/436591/what-do-you-guys-think-of-minor-toughness-only-be-accessible-on-wardens-now
To bundle up some inputs.
tl;dr of my opinion: Warden unique buff yes, forcing warden healer for big groups NO (bc rip tanks and dds for it). And as long as it is like that, also a NO to a complete removal of this buff we had way longer than wardens.Edited by Namarkas on September 26, 2018 11:21AM0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can only effectively apply the buff if you are a tank or healer but not on a dps.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
Yea I am not too happy with the changes of minor toughness being warden exclusive...everyone has pretty much presented a lot of the issues here so I won't go too much into this. Bottom line giving warden something exclusively sounds really awesome and neat and I really like the idea although I would prefer it not be minor toughness. Instead maybe give them a unique buff something new or maybe even something like minor force so that all DDs can have access to minor force without having to spend extra resources on trap or just having access to it in general everywhere. I get that trap can still add some dps but maybe the extra slot on the bar could be another utility skill for the group or dps or survivbility. Anyways again I can appreciate the idea but I don't like nor support the minor toughness change at all...0
-
like another thing I might add is you're forcing people to bring something in that many people may not want to play whether it be a warden as the 2nd healer or even an off tank. Many people will not like this idea and it could potentially leave players in a really bad spot in the current guilds with friends they have made. I'd even support warden giving a buff similar to sanctuary or something not that most experienced groups usually run that but at least it's an extra buff that could be there something not really NEEDED but definitely welcomed. Or maybe even a healing buff that buffs out going healing on themselves and the other healer or... everyone. Many other changes you could do to make it not so mandatory that people run a warden. Not to mention 4 man content...I mean i don't think people are going to appreciate having to run a warden just for that in 4 man content...Now you can argue and I know some of you will that you don't need minor toughness in dungeons and stuff but some people like having it and i can totally understand why especially in newer dlc content (and no i am not talking about one shot mechanics obviously).Edited by eridorr15 on September 27, 2018 6:03AM0
-
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Warden is the worst class in the game. Rather than buffing them to increase their usage, they gave them a unique buff to artifically force people to use them.
They already had the buff. It is that they removed the buff from where it can be obtained by anyone. Not a very sound move.
Yeah, let's hurt the solo player and groups without access to a warden, and make them go find a warden so he can cast a heal every 10 seconds whether he wants to or not.
Nice!
/s0 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
With the exception of vma weapons, no sets you listed have a unique buff. Slayer and stat boosts are available in base game sets.
Major slayer is only available from War Machine and Master Architect. Alkosh provides a unique source of penetration. Jorvulds guidance? An entirely unique effect. Blood Moon? One of the most unique buffs that increases light attacks speed. Should I keep going?
So you think it is OK?
Let's say there's a guy out there who wants to start playing ESO as a tank. Let's say he is done with WoW and comes here to tank. Now, how would you explain that guy that if he wants to play the game at full he needs to buy not only he base game, but also each patch?
You know, ZoS is worried about the decreasing community and wants to bring new blood into the game. It is a fair concern.. But how could be possible that a studio worried about that problem forces new players to buy not only the base game but every single patch to give them the "full experience" they are looking for?
And how do they justiy that paywall when you see the conditions of the servers? Because people PAY and do not RECEIVE what they are paying for (just some gambreaking sets each in a blue moon)
It is a major issue. And it should be addressed.
If he wants to start tanking, then he can start with ebon which is in base game. He doesn't need alkosh nor does he need anything else. Ebon is good for all situations (though I will argue that learning your role is much more important than the class or having the gear itself). You can even pair it with torug or hist bark for additional survivability.
You do not *need* toughness as it's a buff that can also be given by sets that are BoE in morrowind, it's cheap, it's not a popular set. (as to why, it's another whole can of worms.)
Now, do I agree that wardens should have exclusivity on this buff? Hell no, but do I think it's pay to win? Hell effing no. Wardens are already on the lower end of the dps spectrum but even then, you don't need 50k dps onwards to even finish any of the other trails, even in vet.
I understand that you just can't please everyone but geez, this is getting ridiculous.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Ebon isn't the same buff ...RavenSworn wrote: »Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
With the exception of vma weapons, no sets you listed have a unique buff. Slayer and stat boosts are available in base game sets.
Major slayer is only available from War Machine and Master Architect. Alkosh provides a unique source of penetration. Jorvulds guidance? An entirely unique effect. Blood Moon? One of the most unique buffs that increases light attacks speed. Should I keep going?
So you think it is OK?
Let's say there's a guy out there who wants to start playing ESO as a tank. Let's say he is done with WoW and comes here to tank. Now, how would you explain that guy that if he wants to play the game at full he needs to buy not only he base game, but also each patch?
You know, ZoS is worried about the decreasing community and wants to bring new blood into the game. It is a fair concern.. But how could be possible that a studio worried about that problem forces new players to buy not only the base game but every single patch to give them the "full experience" they are looking for?
And how do they justiy that paywall when you see the conditions of the servers? Because people PAY and do not RECEIVE what they are paying for (just some gambreaking sets each in a blue moon)
It is a major issue. And it should be addressed.
If he wants to start tanking, then he can start with ebon which is in base game. He doesn't need alkosh nor does he need anything else. Ebon is good for all situations (though I will argue that learning your role is much more important than the class or having the gear itself). You can even pair it with torug or hist bark for additional survivability.
You do not *need* toughness as it's a buff that can also be given by sets that are BoE in morrowind, it's cheap, it's not a popular set. (as to why, it's another whole can of worms.)
Now, do I agree that wardens should have exclusivity on this buff? Hell no, but do I think it's pay to win? Hell effing no. Wardens are already on the lower end of the dps spectrum but even then, you don't need 50k dps onwards to even finish any of the other trails, even in vet.
I understand that you just can't please everyone but geez, this is getting ridiculous.
There is no other set that gives toughness to your group members ...
Warhorn used to give toughness to group members
Wardens healing you now give you toughness
For the record, you do need toughness for a few pve trial situations
Minor Toughness is 10% of your max health, and it's required for most situations so you'll need a support on Warden, which will either be a Tank or Healer, probably the Tank.
If you do not use toughness, you need to spec points into health and lose out on damage vs a group that will use a warden and gain extra damage.Edited by Nifty2g on October 2, 2018 6:38AM#MOREORBS0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Ebon isn't the same buff ...RavenSworn wrote: »Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
With the exception of vma weapons, no sets you listed have a unique buff. Slayer and stat boosts are available in base game sets.
Major slayer is only available from War Machine and Master Architect. Alkosh provides a unique source of penetration. Jorvulds guidance? An entirely unique effect. Blood Moon? One of the most unique buffs that increases light attacks speed. Should I keep going?
So you think it is OK?
Let's say there's a guy out there who wants to start playing ESO as a tank. Let's say he is done with WoW and comes here to tank. Now, how would you explain that guy that if he wants to play the game at full he needs to buy not only he base game, but also each patch?
You know, ZoS is worried about the decreasing community and wants to bring new blood into the game. It is a fair concern.. But how could be possible that a studio worried about that problem forces new players to buy not only the base game but every single patch to give them the "full experience" they are looking for?
And how do they justiy that paywall when you see the conditions of the servers? Because people PAY and do not RECEIVE what they are paying for (just some gambreaking sets each in a blue moon)
It is a major issue. And it should be addressed.
If he wants to start tanking, then he can start with ebon which is in base game. He doesn't need alkosh nor does he need anything else. Ebon is good for all situations (though I will argue that learning your role is much more important than the class or having the gear itself). You can even pair it with torug or hist bark for additional survivability.
You do not *need* toughness as it's a buff that can also be given by sets that are BoE in morrowind, it's cheap, it's not a popular set. (as to why, it's another whole can of worms.)
Now, do I agree that wardens should have exclusivity on this buff? Hell no, but do I think it's pay to win? Hell effing no. Wardens are already on the lower end of the dps spectrum but even then, you don't need 50k dps onwards to even finish any of the other trails, even in vet.
I understand that you just can't please everyone but geez, this is getting ridiculous.
There is no other set that gives toughness to your group members ...
Warhorn used to give toughness to group members
Wardens healing you now give you toughness
For the record, you do need toughness for a few pve trial situations
Minor Toughness is 10% of your max health, and it's required for most situations so you'll need a support on Warden, which will either be a Tank or Healer, probably the Tank.
If you do not use toughness, you need to spec points into health and lose out on damage vs a group that will use a warden and gain extra damage.
No you don't, and no it isn't. Don't hurt your argument with easily debunked exaggeration.
Your own last sentence debunks the bolded premise. A group without a nightblade and sorc loses crit, a group without a dk and templar loses damage. Now, a group without a warden loses total health value. By the by, what sets (at all) give any of the class specific minor values? To you or your group? And how would one get all minor values in 4 man content?
0 -
RouDeR✭✭✭✭✭
✭So everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticedWar Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
The Buff from Spellpower Cure and the other BS set from cloudrest are also behind Paywall yes?
LES QQ, MORE PEW PEW..
Grow UP!0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
They are base game are they not? That's the differenceDocFrost72 wrote: »
Ebon isn't the same buff ...RavenSworn wrote: »Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
With the exception of vma weapons, no sets you listed have a unique buff. Slayer and stat boosts are available in base game sets.
Major slayer is only available from War Machine and Master Architect. Alkosh provides a unique source of penetration. Jorvulds guidance? An entirely unique effect. Blood Moon? One of the most unique buffs that increases light attacks speed. Should I keep going?
So you think it is OK?
Let's say there's a guy out there who wants to start playing ESO as a tank. Let's say he is done with WoW and comes here to tank. Now, how would you explain that guy that if he wants to play the game at full he needs to buy not only he base game, but also each patch?
You know, ZoS is worried about the decreasing community and wants to bring new blood into the game. It is a fair concern.. But how could be possible that a studio worried about that problem forces new players to buy not only the base game but every single patch to give them the "full experience" they are looking for?
And how do they justiy that paywall when you see the conditions of the servers? Because people PAY and do not RECEIVE what they are paying for (just some gambreaking sets each in a blue moon)
It is a major issue. And it should be addressed.
If he wants to start tanking, then he can start with ebon which is in base game. He doesn't need alkosh nor does he need anything else. Ebon is good for all situations (though I will argue that learning your role is much more important than the class or having the gear itself). You can even pair it with torug or hist bark for additional survivability.
You do not *need* toughness as it's a buff that can also be given by sets that are BoE in morrowind, it's cheap, it's not a popular set. (as to why, it's another whole can of worms.)
Now, do I agree that wardens should have exclusivity on this buff? Hell no, but do I think it's pay to win? Hell effing no. Wardens are already on the lower end of the dps spectrum but even then, you don't need 50k dps onwards to even finish any of the other trails, even in vet.
I understand that you just can't please everyone but geez, this is getting ridiculous.
There is no other set that gives toughness to your group members ...
Warhorn used to give toughness to group members
Wardens healing you now give you toughness
For the record, you do need toughness for a few pve trial situations
Minor Toughness is 10% of your max health, and it's required for most situations so you'll need a support on Warden, which will either be a Tank or Healer, probably the Tank.
If you do not use toughness, you need to spec points into health and lose out on damage vs a group that will use a warden and gain extra damage.
No you don't, and no it isn't. Don't hurt your argument with easily debunked exaggeration.
Your own last sentence debunks the bolded premise. A group without a nightblade and sorc loses crit, a group without a dk and templar loses damage. Now, a group without a warden loses total health value. By the by, what sets (at all) give any of the class specific minor values? To you or your group? And how would one get all minor values in 4 man content?
#MOREORBS0 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
They are base game are they not? That's the differenceDocFrost72 wrote: »
Ebon isn't the same buff ...RavenSworn wrote: »Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
With the exception of vma weapons, no sets you listed have a unique buff. Slayer and stat boosts are available in base game sets.
Major slayer is only available from War Machine and Master Architect. Alkosh provides a unique source of penetration. Jorvulds guidance? An entirely unique effect. Blood Moon? One of the most unique buffs that increases light attacks speed. Should I keep going?
So you think it is OK?
Let's say there's a guy out there who wants to start playing ESO as a tank. Let's say he is done with WoW and comes here to tank. Now, how would you explain that guy that if he wants to play the game at full he needs to buy not only he base game, but also each patch?
You know, ZoS is worried about the decreasing community and wants to bring new blood into the game. It is a fair concern.. But how could be possible that a studio worried about that problem forces new players to buy not only the base game but every single patch to give them the "full experience" they are looking for?
And how do they justiy that paywall when you see the conditions of the servers? Because people PAY and do not RECEIVE what they are paying for (just some gambreaking sets each in a blue moon)
It is a major issue. And it should be addressed.
If he wants to start tanking, then he can start with ebon which is in base game. He doesn't need alkosh nor does he need anything else. Ebon is good for all situations (though I will argue that learning your role is much more important than the class or having the gear itself). You can even pair it with torug or hist bark for additional survivability.
You do not *need* toughness as it's a buff that can also be given by sets that are BoE in morrowind, it's cheap, it's not a popular set. (as to why, it's another whole can of worms.)
Now, do I agree that wardens should have exclusivity on this buff? Hell no, but do I think it's pay to win? Hell effing no. Wardens are already on the lower end of the dps spectrum but even then, you don't need 50k dps onwards to even finish any of the other trails, even in vet.
I understand that you just can't please everyone but geez, this is getting ridiculous.
There is no other set that gives toughness to your group members ...
Warhorn used to give toughness to group members
Wardens healing you now give you toughness
For the record, you do need toughness for a few pve trial situations
Minor Toughness is 10% of your max health, and it's required for most situations so you'll need a support on Warden, which will either be a Tank or Healer, probably the Tank.
If you do not use toughness, you need to spec points into health and lose out on damage vs a group that will use a warden and gain extra damage.
No you don't, and no it isn't. Don't hurt your argument with easily debunked exaggeration.
Your own last sentence debunks the bolded premise. A group without a nightblade and sorc loses crit, a group without a dk and templar loses damage. Now, a group without a warden loses total health value. By the by, what sets (at all) give any of the class specific minor values? To you or your group? And how would one get all minor values in 4 man content?
Correct, the issue is not necessity.
Know what's not base game? Major Courage, any sets that offer that buff. I could make a much better claim over the necessity of olorime/spc than toughness, by a long shot.
And my only issue with the argument you are making is that generally, it disregards this has been the way of the game since day one of dlc. A great deal of powerful, coveted sets such as amberplasm, spc, lord warden dusk, gossamer (esp next patch), war machine and architect, alkosh and moondancer (the latter having fallen out of favor but still relevant ish), calurion, jorvulds guidance, jewelry crafting, the list goes on.
The issue I have with the stance you take is that DLC content would literally never add anything new or unique to the game, and that is horrendously bad for the lifespan of an MMO.
It is not pay to win because you don't kill an enemy with your credit card. Put an average potato in min max gear and they'll not pull half of what a good dps pulls in hunding's or julianos.0 -
Caligamy_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭*doh* didn't check the date >.<Edited by Caligamy_ESO on February 23, 2019 7:50AMlove is love0
