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Minor Toughness Behind Paywall?
Nifty2g
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So everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticed
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
War Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.
Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
#MOREORBS
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yep, Zos is essentially trying to force an increase use of Wardens. More crown sales I suppose.3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The paywall thing isn't an issue as every single endgame player has the warden. The problem is that rather than buffing them to increase their usage, they gave them a unique buff to artificially force people to use them. Wardens are still hot trash, except now they have a unique buff.Edited by MLGProPlayer on September 25, 2018 3:11AM17 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Warden is the worst class in the game. Rather than buffing them to increase their usage, they gave them a unique buff to artifically force people to use them.
They already had the buff. It is that they removed the buff from where it can be obtained by anyone. Not a very sound move.5 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not "necessary", but even if it isn't necessary it is still a bad precedent putting a buff exclusively behind a pay wall for how to get it.
Isn't the only item set that grants Minor Toughness also in Vvardenfell so behind a pay wall also?0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »It's not "necessary", but even if it isn't necessary it is still a bad precedent putting a buff exclusively behind a pay wall for how to get it.
Isn't the only item set that grants Minor Toughness also in Vvardenfell so behind a pay wall also?
Well it is BoE so not really, anyone can access it by buying it from guild storeNA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx0 -
SirDopey✭✭✭✭✭
✭So everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticedWar Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
Ah Warrior Poet?NA PC | AD
xx Doc Holliday xx2 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Warden class & [All faction, All Races] needs to be moved to BASE GAME..
Edited by Enkil on September 25, 2018 8:22PM0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Also a paywall technicallySo everyone is all occupied over the shield changes, but ZOS sneaked in this little change that seems like no one noticedWar Horn: This ability and its morphs no longer grant Minor Toughness.
Developer Comment:This change was made to give Wardens the ability to provide a unique buff (Minor Toughness) to groups.Maturation: The Minor Toughness granted by this passive now applies even if the target was completely over-healed, and its duration has been increased to 10/20 seconds from 5/10 seconds.
So, why, Toughness is necessary in a lot of situations for PvE and now it's requiring a Warden to be in group to get it? Putting a buff category behind a paywall doesn't seem like the best route to go, all buff categories should be widely accessible. Maybe find something else for wardens to have that isn't so important that people need to buy one.
Just a suggestion to probably not go this route with this sort of change and to find something else to give wardens that'll help utility more. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn
Ah Warrior Poet?
But the issue here is giving it to your teammates, no ones going to wear the set on its own lolEdited by Nifty2g on September 25, 2018 3:20AM#MOREORBS0 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »It's not "necessary", but even if it isn't necessary it is still a bad precedent putting a buff exclusively behind a pay wall for how to get it.
Isn't the only item set that grants Minor Toughness also in Vvardenfell so behind a pay wall also?
Well it is BoE so not really, anyone can access it by buying it from guild store
Yay! Pay to win the trader market too!
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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How isn't this a problem? They're starting to actually bring p2w in, most raids are going to require a warden for toughness in some situations otherwise the health will be too low.The_Outsider wrote: »ESO got 99 prolems, dis ain't one
Smart move on ZOS I guess, but it should be something else#MOREORBS2 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
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Some people in some situations is not quite pay to win IMO. It's not a god-tier weapon or a super-potion, it's a class. One that everyone already has (like actually, who doesn't?). I consider a craft bag far more required than a Warden. We got bigger fish to fry.
How isn't this a problem? They're starting to actually bring p2w in, most raids are going to require a warden for toughness in some situations otherwise the health will be too low.The_Outsider wrote: »ESO got 99 prolems, dis ain't one
Smart move on ZOS I guess, but it should be something else
I thought I said all that in my first comment.
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Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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What are you talking about, it gives you an advantage in those situations, that's what p2w is...The_Outsider wrote: »
Some people in some situations is not quite pay to win IMO. It's not a god-tier weapon or a super-potion, it's a class. One that everyone already has (like actually, who doesn't?). I consider a craft bag far more required than a Warden. We got bigger fish to fry.
How isn't this a problem? They're starting to actually bring p2w in, most raids are going to require a warden for toughness in some situations otherwise the health will be too low.The_Outsider wrote: »ESO got 99 prolems, dis ain't one
Smart move on ZOS I guess, but it should be something else
I thought I said all that in my first comment.
It's just probably their plan to start little by little and ease you in. Quit falling for it. Toughness should stay on warhorn and give wardens a different unique thing that isn't necessary to haveEdited by Nifty2g on September 25, 2018 3:44AM#MOREORBS6 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Still think they should've made Minor Toughness 10% health and kept it on warhorn, then given Wardens Major Toughness at 15% health. That way they're not necessary, but nice to have.7 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would like to see access to minor toughness remain available in the base game.
I want to see Sorcs and/or Nightblade tanks and healers getting access to that because they have been hurt by changes this patch.
Sorcs losing shields and Nightblades the class ability to dodge.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Welcome to eso 2018.
The games so p2w now anyway it isn't a surprise.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Still think they should've made Minor Toughness 10% health and kept it on warhorn, then given Wardens Major Toughness at 15% health. That way they're not necessary, but nice to have.
I like this ideaGrand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!1 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree, Wardens should not have exclusive access to Minor Toughness. The change doesn't even make sense, since Warden healers were already a good option with unique buffs. The main complaint I saw was that Warden DPS did not bring anything to the group optimization (like Sorc's Minor Prophecy and Templar's Minor Sorcery), and this change does nothing to solve that.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Still think they should've made Minor Toughness 10% health and kept it on warhorn, then given Wardens Major Toughness at 15% health. That way they're not necessary, but nice to have.
Yes buff my warden in pvp more, it's not like it's already the strongest pvp class on live at the moment and because of pve it's getting dmg lots of dmg buffs and lots of sustain buffs.
I too feel like just having a flat 10% hp for you and everyone around you in pvp already isn't strong enough, lets buff that.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Drygon✭✭✭You guys have no idea what p2w. Warden can be bought with hold if somrone truly wants and like a lot of people already mentioned it is only required in end-game and then almost all people have one of each class.
This p2w whining has to stop as it is not the case with eso. And regarding pvp, only stamdens are top-notch. Magdens still get nerfed again and again for some unknown reason when they really need to buff them and nerf stamdens a bit in sustain or survability department.
Now, i do not like the change either but even so, it is false to call p2w. I think warhorn should remain unchanged but for different reasons.Edited by Drygon on September 25, 2018 6:16AM3 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Still think they should've made Minor Toughness 10% health and kept it on warhorn, then given Wardens Major Toughness at 15% health. That way they're not necessary, but nice to have.
Yes buff my warden in pvp more, it's not like it's already the strongest pvp class on live at the moment and because of pve it's getting dmg lots of dmg buffs and lots of sustain buffs.
I too feel like just having a flat 10% hp for you and everyone around you in pvp already isn't strong enough, lets buff that.
10% more health is not even close to the main reason why this or that warden beats out the competition, and that warden getting slightly more health won't change anything. Heck, it could just as easily be 11%, 12%, or 13%. Or change minor to 5% and Major to 10%. Whatever. Goodness gracious.
Lol what damage buffs? Bear lost 30% and your main magicka dot got a massive cost increase.
Edit: I do think stamwarden (you surely aren't talking about magicka warden) could use toning down in a couple places. But that's not the point of this thread so I don't bother.Edited by Tonturri on September 25, 2018 6:28AM0 -
Harrdarrzarr✭✭✭Just about everyone already has the warden, especially those that care about the minor toughness buff.0
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Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just want more options for where to find buffs, not just one or two specific ways especially one that makes me change to an entirely different character from my favorite one I picked for looks and theme.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just to mention, you can buy Warden with gold. Average price per crown is 300g (you can find even better prices).
That brings us to 450000g for warden. You can do that in 2 weeks without any problems.2 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thank you for calling this out @Nifty2g . People on these forums love to scream "pay to win!!1!" in situations that aren't. Up until now, there has never been a crown store item that gave you a benefit not found elsewhere in the game.
This is a unique group buff, exclusively locked into a crown store class. It is not available without paying for it. Groups which do not have this buff are disadvantaged against those who have paid for the buff class. This is the very definition of p2w. Where's the outrage?
This is zeni's first entry into unique crown store buffs, it almost certainly won't be the last.Edited by Reverb on September 25, 2018 1:22PMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche3 -
Trinity_Is_My_Name✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yep. LOL. Saw this as well. Nerf everything so you guys have to buy something to get back what you have had for years in game till now. What's next I wonder? Hmmm....0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh come on now. Under the same logic we can say that Relequen and Siroria are pay to win. Mechanical acuity? p2w. Master Architect? p2w. Maelstrom weapons? How dare they?! Even Julianos is pay to win under this logic.
With the exception of vma weapons, no sets you listed have a unique buff. Slayer and stat boosts are available in base game sets.
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche0 -
keevil111✭✭✭✭The game itself is pay to win... Without the game, you cannot win.
-keevil111PS4 NA4